Another lost season in Rodgers prime

[ThePerfectBeard]

Not sure either of those guys help the rebuttal.

lol I know, trying to look at the glass half full. Both are starters, Perry is picking it up and Hayward is alright inside.

 

[aristotle]

You are right on. Replacing Finley was a tall order and we have not come close. A small school late round pick like Donald Driver started becoming a great one once Favre believed in him. Adams should be able to do the same but is not.

Just looked at the UFA list for 2016. Grab Jermaine Gresham and Ben Watson and make R Rodgers #3

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I do feel like every season the Packers have Rodgers and don't win the Super Bowl is a lost season. Rodgers only has so many years as the best quarterback in the world. Rodgers deserves more than one Super Bowl ring with the talent he has.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Eh the 2010 offense didn't look like a super bowl unit late in the season, remember their last game of the season against Chicago? We probably would have been sunk without Tim Masthay playing the game of his life.

Let's see what Aaron and Co. do with the rest of the season before we declare this year over.

That team was different. There were no expectations that year. Everybody just wanted to see Rodgers win a playoff game for the first time.

 

[Mondio]

There were a lot of expectations for that 2010 team

 

[Ogsponge]

Oh, I get it now. Thank you for pointing it out one more time. Silly me, McCarthy and his staff, the same staff responsible for years of consistently putting one of the best offenses on the field in the nfl has suddenly forgotten how to coach and how to use talent. A GM , highly regarded and respected by every one of his peers, can't find good players. Silly me. Despite having one of the best winning percentages in his time as GM and a team overwhelmingly built from the draft, he is obviously a horrible judge of talent.

These guys aren't playing well, all of them, at one point or another are not doing their respective jobs, unless of course you think this level of play has gotten Rodgers all those accolades in the past?


Go ahead and blame everyone that isn't on the field. You're absolutely correct. It's all on the coaches missed blocks, dropped passes, errant throws, and fumbles be damned LOL

Are you yet another poster who will ignore everything I say and hyper focus on one aspect?

Yes the players need to execute better as do the coaches as does Ted. Yes everything else you said is true but do you know what else is true? Those same people have continually failed to get us back to the Superbowl while having arguably the best QB in the league on the team. Not only that but they consistently manage to blow it in the most mind boggling spectacular fashion.

If you are fine with reaching the playoffs to get pushed around by a superior team, no wait, that is the wrong adjective, I should say the better prepared and better coached team, then that is your prerogative, but in this business winning the SB is the goal and anything short of that is a failure, especially with the quality of the team the Pack consistently puts on the field.

So for the last time, what is happening right now is an organization wide failure. I have never once said it is all tt an mm fault but they along with the players are failing at their jobs which is to win the super bowl.

And just so we are crystal clear I HAVE BLAMED THE PLAYERS AS WELL MULTIPLE TIMES, IS THAT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO COMPREHEND?

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

This is a discussion forum, not a pissing match gentlemen. Keep it civil, or use the ignore feature. Thank you.

 

[ExpatPacker]

I do feel however that Rodgers bears partial responsibility for this year's debacle. I'm not going to say that he has regressed, but he has certainly not played anywhere close to what an MVP QB should. A lot of his throws are off, his pocket presence is poor, he has often not seen the open receiver when they are in fact open (which hasn't been often). Those are 3 things.

Watching the Denver - Pats game the other night, the vast difference between Brady and Rodgers this season was so apparent, it was shocking. Brady had Gronk for most of the game it's true, but he didn't have Amendola nor did he have Edelman, and his throws were crisp, on-target, his reads were spot-on, and he handled a pretty stiff pass rush with poise. Even when Gronk went down Brady still delivered. Comparing him to Rodgers was night and day. I will not fault Rodgers for all of it, because Brady's receivers were open far more than Rodgers', but the openness of receivers is part personnel, part scheme, part QB's reads. And Brady had them in it even though the Pats were getting jobbed by the refs.

I don't know what is wrong with Rodgers, but there is something.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just looked at the UFA list for 2016. Grab Jermaine Gresham and Ben Watson and make R Rodgers #3

Watson will be 35 years old next offseason and Gresham is struggling with the Cardinals for whatever reason. There are several tight ends who could be an upgrade for the Packers next season but let´s wait and see which one of them will actually hit the market in March.

 

[Mondio]

I haven't ignored anything, but anyway.

I guess we just have different perspectives, enjoy yours. I don't feel that everything that isn't perfection is failure. So far this year we've had this fan base declare Denver the best, The Patriots the best and right how I bet AZ and Cincy are better teams. The Pats have the exact same amount of Super Bowl Wins since Ted and McCarthy took this team over

You think we were dominated in last years NFCG? I guess we really view things differently. Yes it was a monumental collapse, but a domination by the Seahawks? I guess maybe ignore is a pretty good option because we obviously watch different games. It was like watching a "Seconds to Disaster" episode and every small cog that could fail at the end, did. Things that happen in one game, once a year were happening every single play at the end of one game.

I felt we were better then, I think we're better than the Seahawks now. I think we had an excellent chance to beat the Pats last year in the Super Bowl. We have largely the same players and coaches this year. They aren't playing well and that's a problem, but we've all seen they are capable of a much higher level of play.

When Adams starts catching balls that hit him in the hands and quits dropping 1st downs and TD's and we're still losing, I'll focus on something else. When Cobb starts catching 1st downs instead of dropping easy targets and we have to go 3 and out for the 9th time in a game, maybe I'll start to focus on something else. When Lacy doesn't lose a fumble once a game, I'll stop thinking he needs to hang on to the ball better. When Rodgers stops inexplicably throwing a pass 3 feet short or over the head of a wide open receiver and we're still losing, I'll consider another option for blame. Until then the only thing that's going to fix this is for them to make the plays that are right there in front of them to make. Can't run an offense when you can't stay on the field for more than 3 plays at a time, and dropping balls for 1st downs isn't scheme, coaching or anything else. I'm sorry I won't indulge in the excuse making other than players need to make the plays. When the plays are being made and open receivers are catching the ball that hits them in the hands and we're still losing, RB's quit losing fumbles, OLine gets their communication down, maybe I'll focus on something else.

Blame coaches all you want but when a guy is open and he drops the ball, do they give him more meditation time? at some point you just have to make the plays. I think this staff is very cognizant of helping players mentally and physically as individuals, to play at their best and in the end it falls in the players to make the plays in front of them.

 

[longtimefan]

someone look up the % of drops in the 1st 6 games

then get % of drops in last 5

 

[Ogsponge]

I haven't ignored anything, but anyway.

I guess we just have different perspectives, enjoy yours. I don't feel that everything that isn't perfection is failure. So far this year we've had this fan base declare Denver the best, The Patriots the best and right how I bet AZ and Cincy are better teams. The Pats have the exact same amount of Super Bowl Wins since Ted and McCarthy took this team over

You think we were dominated in last years NFCG? I guess we really view things differently. Yes it was a monumental collapse, but a domination by the Seahawks? I guess maybe ignore is a pretty good option because we obviously watch different games. It was like watching a "Seconds to Disaster" episode and every small cog that could fail at the end, did. Things that happen in one game, once a year were happening every single play at the end of one game.

I felt we were better then, I think we're better than the Seahawks now. I think we had an excellent chance to beat the Pats last year in the Super Bowl. We have largely the same players and coaches this year. They aren't playing well and that's a problem, but we've all seen they are capable of a much higher level of play.

When Adams starts catching balls that hit him in the hands and quits dropping 1st downs and TD's and we're still losing, I'll focus on something else. When Cobb starts catching 1st downs instead of dropping easy targets and we have to go 3 and out for the 9th time in a game, maybe I'll start to focus on something else. When Lacy doesn't lose a fumble once a game, I'll stop thinking he needs to hang on to the ball better. When Rodgers stops inexplicably throwing a pass 3 feet short or over the head of a wide open receiver and we're still losing, I'll consider another option for blame. Until then the only thing that's going to fix this is for them to make the plays that are right there in front of them to make. Can't run an offense when you can't stay on the field for more than 3 plays at a time, and dropping balls for 1st downs isn't scheme, coaching or anything else. I'm sorry I won't indulge in the excuse making other than players need to make the plays. When the plays are being made and open receivers are catching the ball that hits them in the hands and we're still losing, RB's quit losing fumbles, OLine gets their communication down, maybe I'll focus on something else.

Blame coaches all you want but when a guy is open and he drops the ball, do they give him more meditation time? at some point you just have to make the plays. I think this staff is very cognizant of helping players mentally and physically as individuals, to play at their best and in the end it falls in the players to make the plays in front of them.

So is it really your opinion that they should just keep trotting Adams out there to drop half his passes? Does it ever become the coaches fauilt for using players that are continually failing. Is it really that hard for you and others to comprehend what I am saying? I don't mean that as an insult I am just trying to figure out if you really feel tt and mm are 100% blame free because that's what you are coming across as.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So is it really your opinion that they should just keep trotting Adams out there to drop half his passes? Does it ever become the coaches fauilt for using players that are continually failing. Is it really that hard for you and others to comprehend what I am saying? I don't mean that as an insult I am just trying to figure out if you really feel tt and mm are 100% blame free because that's what you are coming across as.

IMO there's absolutely no doubt that Thompson, McCarthy and the rest of the coaching staff deserve some blame for the team's struggles as well.

 

[TJV]

Of course the coaching staff is partly to blame. I thought the MMQB article about the Packers using more combination routes made a great point. (Ironic that Jones was called for a pick on the goal line when IIRC he never contacted the defender he was "supposed" to pick.) But if the Packers used more of those routes and the receivers got open and dropped the ball, or Rodgers threw a bad pass the result would be the same.

 

[Ogsponge]

Of course the coaching staff is partly to blame. I thought the MMQB article about the Packers using more combination routes made a great point. (Ironic that Jones was called for a pick on the goal line when IIRC he never contacted the defender he was "supposed" to pick.) But if the Packers used more of those routes and the receivers got open and dropped the ball, or Rodgers threw a bad pass the result would be the same.

Agreed but I would at least like to see the attempt to do something different and I am really not seeing it. I think we are on the same page more than either of us believe about the other. I will admit that I have probably not done the best of job expressing my viewpoint so I do apologize if I have come off as ****

 

[Mondio]

So is it really your opinion that they should just keep trotting Adams out there to drop half his passes? Does it ever become the coaches fauilt for using players that are continually failing. Is it really that hard for you and others to comprehend what I am saying? I don't mean that as an insult I am just trying to figure out if you really feel tt and mm are 100% blame free because that's what you are coming across as.

No, it's my opinion that the coaches are good, the have earned my respect. It is my opinion that they know this team much much better than I do. It is my opinion that if they feel that Adams has a high ceiling and to reach that he needs to play thru this slump in order to reach the other side and elevate his play to bring this team to where it wants to be by the end of the season, then I"m ok with it.

I'm certainly frustrated by his level of play. So far Cobb nor Jones has proven to be a lot more reliable and beyond them, who are our passing targets? Janis? I'm not convinced he's smart enough to do anything but run fast and i'm sure if he was doing enough in practice he would have seen the field more. Some think he's the answer, I think he'll have a couple big splash plays and defenses will figure out he's easy to cover and then he won't do much. He's a niche player IMO, and I think the coaching staff recognizes that every single day in practice. the 2nd they thought Abby was up to speed he was out there quite a bit. It's too bad he can't stay healthy and could be his downfall. Monty hasn't been available for weeks.

I'm pretty sure there are things MM and TT could have done differently, but overall they have been very good, as good as anyone and a lot better than most. And for whatever shortcomings people may want to point out the facts are still the same, the players on the field have a much higher ceiling than they've been producing. Other plays could have been called, other players could be on the field, but there are handfuls of plays in every single loss, and win, that if the player makes the play in front of them, we win. Until they start doing that like they have shown the ability to many, many times in the past, the rest is just excuses.

I don't care what FA, what different draft pick is out there running a different play call by a different OC coached by a different HC, if he doesn't catch a ball in his hands for a TD, we don't get any points. If he doesn't catch a ball right in his hands for a 1st down, we're punting. and if we're going 3 and out 9 times a game, we're not winning many and it doesn't matter who is out there, who is coaching or what play was called.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Janis? I'm not convinced he's smart enough to do anything but run fast and i'm sure if he was doing enough in practice he would have seen the field more. Some think he's the answer, I think he'll have a couple big splash plays and defenses will figure out he's easy to cover and then he won't do much. He's a niche player IMO, and I think the coaching staff recognizes that every single day in practice.

There´s absolutely no doubt that Janis isn´t close to capable of running the entire route tree but the coaching staff not even using his speed on some deep routes in mind-boggling.

I don't care what FA, what different draft pick is out there running a different play call by a different OC coached by a different HC, if he doesn't catch a ball in his hands for a TD, we don't get any points. If he doesn't catch a ball right in his hands for a 1st down, we're punting. and if we're going 3 and out 9 times a game, we're not winning many and it doesn't matter who is out there, who is coaching or what play was called.

Well, the thing is that different players running different plays could end up producing different results. That´s why Thompson and the coaching staff are partly to blame as well.

 

[Mondio]

There´s absolutely no doubt that Janis isn´t close to capable of running the entire route tree but the coaching staff not even using his speed on some deep routes in mind-boggling.




Well, the thing is that different players running different plays could end up with different results. That´s why Thompson and the coaching staff are partly to blame as well.

It's not as if he hasn't seen the field and if a guy can't out play his 5th receiver position on the depth chart what does that say about him? Just replace him for the sake of replacing? I think the leash on Adams has gotten a lot shorter and the staff has basically reached they point where he either does better or he's seeing the bench. and for most of this year what good would sending him deep do? Beyond the past 2 weeks Rodgers would have been sacked before he made it 15 yards down field anyway.

as to the 2nd part, the flip side is, the exact same plays with the exact same players could work, if they'd catch the ball that hits them in the hands, the qb delivers a catchable ball to an open receiver or the RB's hang on to it. They could also work with different players if they'd make the play, or they might not. it's not as if there isn't a pretty good history of doing much better with the exact players we have. Very often they've made plays rather than drop them. Just because you change a player doesn't automatically mean "better".

 

[Pucky]

Janis adds speed and even if he's not on the same page with Rodgers the defense has to cover him, maybe even put a safety over the top to deal with him. That would open up some space on short and intermediate routes.

I agree that Janis hasn't proven anything yet but playing him can't result in any worse play by the receivers.

Adams obviously looks good in practice, but not in a real game. On the other hand, Janis probably screws up in practice not gaining any confidence from Rodgers. But I believe he's a gamer. Time to make Janis our 3rd receiver and bench Adams. Cobb also needs to wake up! And this play calling is not the aggressive offense that normally scares NFL defenses.
Time for some serious changes!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's not as if he hasn't seen the field and if a guy can't out play his 5th receiver position on the depth chart what does that say about him? Just replace him for the sake of replacing? I think the leash on Adams has gotten a lot shorter and the staff has basically reached they point where he either does better or he's seeing the bench. and for most of this year what good would sending him deep do? Beyond the past 2 weeks Rodgers would have been sacked before he made it 15 yards down field anyway.

Janis offers something no other receiver on this team is currently able to. While it seems to be tricky to get the ball in his hands on offense the coaching staff has to figure out a way to get him involved more often as he´s capable of turning every play into a big one.

as to the 2nd part, the flip side is, the exact same plays with the exact same players could work, if they'd catch the ball that hits them in the hands, the qb delivers a catchable ball to an open receiver or the RB's hang on to it. They could also work with different players if they'd make the play, or they might not. it's not as if there isn't a pretty good history of doing much better with the exact players we have. Very often they've made plays rather than drop them. Just because you change a player doesn't automatically mean "better".

There´s no denying the players deserve the lion´s share of the blame for the offensive struggles but that doesn´t mean Thompson or the coaching staff are free of guilt.

 

[Mondio]

i don't think TT and MM are perfect, but unless you can guarantee me perfection I don't think you're going to find much better in this league at their jobs. So, until the plays that are there to be made, are made by the same players that used to make them and we continue to lose then i'll spend time considering other reasons for this slump. Until then we have the players and the coaches to get this done.

I think Janis or someone is very close to seeing a lot more of the field if Adams doesn't pick up his game. I think the staff has reached their limit in terms of patience and trying to coach him and let him play thru it. It's time to **** or get off the pot so to speak. If abbrederis stayed healthy, I think he'd be seeing at least 5-7 passes a game at this point. If Monty could ever come back, I think he'd be seeing a lot more. I think they're just as worried about Janis going up when he should be cutting across in front of a receiver and getting more picks like the one intended for Adams last time. I'm worried about it to. If all you have to do is worry about a guy running deep, well he's not hard to cover for an NFL defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

i don't think TT and MM are perfect, but unless you can guarantee me perfection I don't think you're going to find much better in this league at their jobs. So, until the plays that are there to be made, are made by the same players that used to make them and we continue to lose then i'll spend time considering other reasons for this slump. Until then we have the players and the coaches to get this done.

Thompson is one of the best GMs in drafting offensive talent and manage the salary cap but he hasn´t done as good of a job on the other side of the ball. His reluctance to use free agency or trades to selectively address position of needs is mind-boggling though. McCarthy is an above average coach but he´s for sure not on the same level as Belichick.

If all you have to do is worry about a guy running deep, well he's not hard to cover for an NFL defense.

It would for sure open up short to intermediate passing lanes though as a defense can´t let him run free on deep routes.

 

[Mondio]

I think for sure is debatable. up until 2 weeks ago, Janis wasn't clearing anything underneath as Rodgers wasn't on his feet long enough for it to matter. If they keep Lacy going, the deep stuff becomes a threat, with any of our receivers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think for sure is debatable. up until 2 weeks ago, Janis wasn't clearing anything underneath as Rodgers wasn't on his feet long enough for it to matter. If they keep Lacy going, the deep stuff becomes a threat, with any of our receivers.

It´s true the offensive line has struggled as well and with them being banged up it would help having a fast receiver capable of becoming a deep threat in a heartbeat. I agree that if Lacy can continue to perform on a high level (aside of the fumbling the ball) it will at some point help the passing game as well.

 

[Carl]

I know some people aren't a fan of Vic Ketchman, but he wrote something today that fits this discussion:

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...d08-20e9-4219-99d5-e79de5207a49#ixzz3t5oARAaQ

"If you pay attention, you’ll hear the answers: they’ve missed some throws, run some bad routes and dropped some passes. Aaron Rodgers

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

didn’t see Randall Cobb

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

open on the goal line in Carolina. It was a great play call. Cobb was isolated on a defender against Detroit and had achieved wide separation from the defender, and the pass was on the money; it might’ve gone for a touchdown, but the pass was dropped. It was a great play call. Davante Adams

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

was isolated on a defender against Chicago and had separated so widely he probably would’ve scored, had he caught the ball. It was a great play call. Later in the game, a Rodgers interception was the result of a bad route. It was a simple slant, and my inbox begs for slants as much as it does for screens. Eliminate the missed throws, the bad routes and the dropped passes and everything will be fine. It’s not the play-calling or the scheme."

If those mistakes don't happen and we are 9-2 (maybe 10-1) instead of 7-4, would we even be having a big discussion about the play calling?