Another lost season in Rodgers prime

[Half Empty]

The 2012 Ravens should have packed it in too after losing 4 games in December....

Probably should have, like the Pack appears to have done now, but they didn't.

 

[Packerlover]

What a HUGE disappointing loss.. No way we should have lost to the Bears on Favre's night. That team should have been above fired-up!! Not sure what's going on but they sure don't resemble the Packers that I have come to know. At least were still alive in the playoffs and maybe we can get it going down the stretch. I am always optimistic but the loss on Thanksgiving Night certainly reduced that optimism...

 

[PackerDNA]

I'll keep watching and rooting, and hope I'm as wrong as my prediction for the Vikings game was. However......
Realistically, I see no chance of this team doing a 180 and becoming a legit super bowl contender this season.

 

[Dagger85]

I'll keep watching and rooting, and hope I'm as wrong as my prediction for the Vikings game was. However......
Realistically, I see no chance of this team doing a 180 and becoming a legit super bowl contender this season.

I'm the exact opposite because they did a complete 180 in the wrong direction. So I'm holding out hope they go back to the team we saw before the bye.

 

[Ogsponge]

lol another phantom disagree from TJV where he won't bother to explain what he disagrees with, if you are going to be so fond of using the little red x so much you should at least debate the post you disagree with, with your thoughts. C'mon man.

 

[TJV]

lol another phantom disagree from TJV where he won't bother to explain what he disagrees with, if you are going to be so fond of using the little red x so much you should at least debate the post you disagree with, with your thoughts. C'mon man.

Thanks for thinking my opinion is so important, but why do you care so much about it? And after more than 4700 posts I’d be interested in how many red Xs I’ve given – I’ll bet not that many but you no doubt are a recipient of good percentage of them. Why do I disagree with your post? Because I think you may not be a Favre-fan more than a Packers fan but you certainly post like one. That’s the source of your hatred of, and bias towards Thompson.

Regarding that post, provide the source for McCarthy saying the play calling was perfect. BTW, funny you mention Bellichick – he has great respect for McCarthy. How is Thompson’s sticking to a plan he believes in (even if some of us disagree) arrogance?

 

[Carl]

And blaming the players will only get you so far, especially when it is the coaches job to put the players in the best possible position to win. However, when the coaches keep doing the same things that fail over and over again, regardless if it is "player execution" that is causing the failures, it is the coaches play calling that is the problem. Play calling is not just about calling a play and players executing it, it is about creating mismatches and utilizing different personnel for different plays.

Mike McCarthy basically has completely blamed everyone but himself and his coaching staff during his entire tenure for any problems the Packers are having. After this game he basically flat out said. Our play calling is perfect, the players are not doing their jobs. And while I do completely agree with that to an extent, it shows a level of arrogance by McCarthy that even Belichick does not display.

The arrogance of Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers with his trust ******** is everything that is wrong with this team. When certain guys are not performing, give the other guys a chance at the very least. But what they are doing right now is absolutely not working and they are so flocking arrogant that they refuse to try anything else. It is pathetic.

The play calling did create a perfect match up on the Packers last drive, with Cobb on a linebacker, and the players didn't make it happen. Mistakes and a couple bad officiating calls left 10-17 points off the board. Play calling looks a lot better with those points up.

Also, maybe the play calling is completely different. As fans, we don't really don't know. Unless we use NFL game pass, we don't even see most of the routes. We have absolutely no idea if changes have or have not been made. For all we know, they have been trying everything they have. What play calling issues do you see that keep being repeated?

 

[PackerDNA]

Not buying the bad calls stuff. The officiating sucked, and on balance sucked worse for the Bears.

Not to single you out, Carl, but I'm seeing this pop up more and more. I was particularly disgusted to hear of coach Mike resorting to it. The Bears won because they were the better team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Bears won because they were the better team.

I thought the Bears won because they scored more points? Dammit...there goes my Saturday!!

 

[Carl]

Not buying the bad calls stuff. The officiating sucked, and on balance sucked worse for the Bears.

Not saying at all they lose due to bad calls. A couple calls contributed to only 13 points, but the player mistakes were much more often and significant.

 

[Half Empty]

I thought the Bears won because they scored more points? Dammit...there goes my Saturday!!

The Bears scored more points because they were the better team.

 

[adambr2]

The play calling did create a perfect match up on the Packers last drive, with Cobb on a linebacker[/QUOTE]

You would think, but the way Cobb separates, doesn't seem to be.

 

[Ogsponge]

Thanks for thinking my opinion is so important, but why do you care so much about it?

I seem some of the arrogance I speak off has rubbed on on some posters around here.

But thank you for engaging me for once instead of just disagreeing with me expecting that I am like so many of the posters who will never back up anything they say.

Why do I disagree with your post? Because I think you may not be a Favre-fan more than a Packers fan but you certainly post like one. That’s the source of your hatred of, and bias towards Thompson.

I respect everyone's opinion when it comes to talking about the Packers. I like to debate about the team especially when there are such glaring problems, you apparently like to call people Favre-Fans as if that somehow negates anything anyone has to say. I appreciate that you did not flat out say that was the case but said that is how my posts come across and I can appreciate that. So let's clear the air a bit....

You are damn right I am a Favre fan, in my humble opinion if you are a Packer fan but not a Favre fan then you are not a true Packer fan. Picking and choosing what you like about a team is exactly what a bandwagon fan does. I love everything about the Packers, good and bad and lets face it, Brett did some crappy stuff but he meant an awful lot to this organization and even remotely trying to deny that is just flat out wrong. But that is entirely another debate.

I do not dislike Thompson, McCarthy or Rodgers, in fact in my hierarchy of Packer greats, all three of them would be above Favre in my mystical rankings. So can we please just put to rest any thoughts of me being a Favre fan first? It simply is not even remotely the case. I simply see flaws in regards to the holy trinity of Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers.

Regarding that post, provide the source for McCarthy saying the play calling was perfect. BTW, funny you mention Bellichick – he has great respect for McCarthy.

Let me start by saying I have great respect for McCarthy as well but to answer you question about sources, here you go:

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-p...thy-just-win-the-route-or-win-the-play-called

Here are the parts I am talking about:

"“So much is made of scheme,” McCarthy said Friday. “Frankly, I think too much is made of scheme. At the end of the day, it’s about running your routes or defending the route or blocking your guy or getting off the block and eventually tackling the guy and getting the football.”

and:

“It’s the attention and the details,” McCarthy said. “Our issues are technique and discipline in the technique, and quit worrying so much about the plays. Just win the route or win the play called.”

Full Definition of ARROGANT
1
: exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearingmanner <an arrogant official>
2
: showing an offensive attitude of superiority : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance<an arrogant reply>

McCarthy could not be more clear, he does not believe there is anything wrong with him or the coaching staff, it is all on the players. He believes so much in his own contribution and worth that it has nothing do with him but is all about others. This belief, by the very definition is arrogance.

How is Thompson’s sticking to a plan he believes in (even if some of us disagree) arrogance?

Again, read the definition, sticking to a plan and having such an overwhelming belief that said plan will work, even though it is not working, is again the very definition of arrogance. Draft and develop is not working in the sense the goal is to win championships. And when you have easily the most efficient QB in the history of the NFL on your team and only have one Superbowl appearance in what 8 years to show for it, the plan is not working. This is a team that should be built for an actually championship dynasty but instead is built for a regular season dynasty. Which is great, but they are at the point where new things need to be tried before Rodgers is gone with only one SB appearance to show for it.

And guess what? If that is how it goes down than for all their greatness, the holy trinity of Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers will have done less for the organization than the trio of Wolf, Holmgren and Favre. Think about that for a minute as of right now the current trio for all their greatness have accomplished less than the former trio. If they are so great and so much better than the former, why have they not accomplished more? I believe in the current more than the former but the simple facts right now are they have accomplished less than the former.

Finally to wrap up my novella here, I like to debate, i don't like people arrogantly disagreeing with a post and never backing it up especially when they may feel I am a Favre fan first which is exactly what I knew you thought about me as it is your go to statement when people point out any kind of flaw in the current holy trinity. You incorrectly assume, with me at least, that I believe Favre is some sort of godlike figure. Other than my holy trinity comment used on multiple occasion I hope I did a good job of leaving snark out of my post and I apologize for the length of the post, I really just wanted to clear the air.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think McCarthy is wrong though. Call him arrogant, but he's not wrong. How many plays have the Packers missed this year due to a lineman not moving his feet, or Bahk, losing leverage and getting walked right back into Rodgers' face? How many times has the OL , that has been pretty good at pass blocking in the past, not gotten their assignments right in the face of a blitz? or even just a 4 man rush? We used to kill those things, we wanted teams to blitz, because we'd pick it up and get a big play. They've been doing better in recent weeks, but others have picked up where they have left off.

Fundamentals, like focus on the ball and catch it. How many drops do we have this year? How many potential TD's had Cobb dropped? There are easily a handful of 1st downs he's dropped this year, and instead of gaining rhythm and another 4 plays on offense, we very often have gone 3 and out. Or the last INT against the Bears. Being on the same page is huge, and why aren't they? By all accounts from every player and beat writer this fall, Adams was poised to be a beast. I was skeptical till I saw it, but his hands never looked THIS bad to me. Something has to be up mentally, heck if I know how to fix it, but just route wise he and Rodgers have to be on the same page, because when that ball is coming out quick, you have to cover the face of the defender, and if he does, he makes the catch and runs right by him, rather than going up and letting the ball sail right to the defender.

Or when Receivers are catching and the line is blocking, then Lacy Fumbles. hang on to i, I bet things are better for us.

so many small things that would allow us to use more offense, gain a rhythm, etc. I don't think this team is far off and if they get it together, we've all seen what they can do.

 

[Ogsponge]

I don't think McCarthy is wrong though. Call him arrogant, but he's not wrong. How many plays have the Packers missed this year due to a lineman not moving his feet, or Bahk, losing leverage and getting walked right back into Rodgers' face? How many times has the OL , that has been pretty good at pass blocking in the past, not gotten their assignments right in the face of a blitz? or even just a 4 man rush? We used to kill those things, we wanted teams to blitz, because we'd pick it up and get a big play. They've been doing better in recent weeks, but others have picked up where they have left off.

Fundamentals, like focus on the ball and catch it. How many drops do we have this year? How many potential TD's had Cobb dropped? There are easily a handful of 1st downs he's dropped this year, and instead of gaining rhythm and another 4 plays on offense, we very often have gone 3 and out. Or the last INT against the Bears. Being on the same page is huge, and why aren't they? By all accounts from every player and beat writer this fall, Adams was poised to be a beast. I was skeptical till I saw it, but his hands never looked THIS bad to me. Something has to be up mentally, heck if I know how to fix it, but just route wise he and Rodgers have to be on the same page, because when that ball is coming out quick, you have to cover the face of the defender, and if he does, he makes the catch and runs right by him, rather than going up and letting the ball sail right to the defender.

Or when Receivers are catching and the line is blocking, then Lacy Fumbles. hang on to i, I bet things are better for us.

so many small things that would allow us to use more offense, gain a rhythm, etc. I don't think this team is far off and if they get it together, we've all seen what they can do.

For the record I don't completely disagree with it either, however, who keeps trotting out the same players that are not getting it done? A great coach does not throw his players under the bus in anyway, shape or form in public. A great coach would focus on himself and things he can change to make an improvement. Unless a person is blind, there is no way you can say McCarthy is doing that at this point.

 

[MadCat]

And blaming the players will only get you so far, especially when it is the coaches job to put the players in the best possible position to win. However, when the coaches keep doing the same things that fail over and over again, regardless if it is "player execution" that is causing the failures, it is the coaches play calling that is the problem. Play calling is not just about calling a play and players executing it, it is about creating mismatches and utilizing different personnel for different plays.

Mike McCarthy basically has completely blamed everyone but himself and his coaching staff during his entire tenure for any problems the Packers are having. After this game he basically flat out said. Our play calling is perfect, the players are not doing their jobs. And while I do completely agree with that to an extent, it shows a level of arrogance by McCarthy that even Belichick does not display.

The arrogance of Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers with his trust ******** is everything that is wrong with this team. When certain guys are not performing, give the other guys a chance at the very least. But what they are doing right now is absolutely not working and they are so flocking arrogant that they refuse to try anything else. It is pathetic.

I like your courageous post. No doubt the players are making many big mistakes and we can bash them all day long, but in the end, the team's persistent and uncorrected problems start at the top.

Lack of talent, experience, depth, and on-field leadership fall squarely on the shoulders of TT (and to an extent the coaching staff that has draft input too). His annual crap shoot may or may not pan out, or it may end up being a never-ending work in progress. Who knows? But the bottom line is that these players didn't draft themselves, so the product on the field is what he has assembled.

Game preparedness, motivation (to a limited extent), utilization of talent, game plan adjustments from half to half, and from game to game, as well as ongoing coaching staff ineffectiveness fall squarely on the shoulders of MM. His team was woefully unprepared for their game again on Thursday. His blaming of everyone else in the press conference after the game was shabby and outrageous, although I would chalk it up to defensiveness, not so much arrogance. He can get mad all he wants and blame whoever deserves blame, no problem... But he needs to man up and take a portion of the blame that belongs to him, like the players do.

I find the worship of and excuse making for these two to be really baffling. I've tried to cut them plenty of slack for years (not knowing what goes on behind closed doors of course), but at some point it becomes really difficult to keep watching them skate along without having to be held accountable when things are bad, yet get the lion's share of the credit when things are good.

 

[TJV]

I like to debate about the team especially when there are such glaring problems, you apparently like to call people Favre-Fans as if that somehow negates anything anyone has to say. I appreciate that you did not flat out say that was the case but said that is how my posts come across and I can appreciate that. So let's clear the air a bit.... You are damn right I am a Favre fan, in my humble opinion if you are a Packer fan but not a Favre fan then you are not a true Packer fan. Picking and choosing what you like about a team is exactly what a bandwagon fan does. I love everything about the Packers, good and bad and lets face it, Brett did some crappy stuff but he meant an awful lot to this organization and even remotely trying to deny that is just flat out wrong. But that is entirely another debate.

And IMO too many fans were Favre fans more than they were/are Packers fans and if that's the case IMO they aren't true Packers fans. And I did appreciate Favre until he became what I consider a traitor to the Packers organization - so I am no longer a Favre fan, because I'm a Packers fan.

I think your comment, "I like to debate about the team especially when there are such glaring problems" is a common theme with Favre fans. The Packers can go on a 10 game winning streak and they never show up here. But as soon as the team struggles they're here calling for Thompson's and McCarthy's jobs.

As to the rest of your post: I missed the part where McCarthy said the play calling was perfect.
Using terms like the holy trinity is another example of your bias, in spite of your protestations.
And who said Wolf and Holmgren weren't great? Looks like a straw man to me.

 

[Mondio]

For the record I don't completely disagree with it either, however, who keeps trotting out the same players that are not getting it done? A great coach does not throw his players under the bus in anyway, shape or form in public. A great coach would focus on himself and things he can change to make an improvement. Unless a person is blind, there is no way you can say McCarthy is doing that at this point.

a coach and staff that believes in a players ability, will continue to trot them out there if they think that what they need to do is just play thru it. Just think 3 years ago, we all wanted to run Crosby out of town, they knew he was better than that and stuck with him. We easily could have been one of those teams this year that has gone thru crappy kicker after crappy kicker and be missing extra points every game and 30 yard FG's. But they believed in him, I believe that paid off.

I think a great couch would call out a player, when they found it necessary. I don't know the inner workings in the locker room, a coach has to find what makes a guy tick, maybe they're still trying to figure Adams out. These guys aren't perfect. Myself, I think he needs to see the bench for a while, but what do I know? I do know he's looking for too many flags instead of running his routes and beating guys with effort and then catching the ball. a year and a half in, i'm probably not that patient anymore, especially when I see the whining on the field and dropping opportunity after opportunity. We don't know what has been going on in practice or behind closed doors. Maybe the moment got the best of MM, so he's human, but he has a lot history of keeping composure, the fail mary, the last NFCG and then losing his brother, etc. When he develops a pattern, I'll be concerned. Or maybe this is what he feels some of his players need, maybe they've done everything they think they can to bring him along, and now it's time to sink or swim. Play better, or get benched.

I think McCarthy is focused on doing what he can, because they haven't found the way to fix it yet, doesn't mean he hasn't been focused. That's one thing I never really worry about between Rodgers or MM or TT. They may not have it "right" right now, but I know they don't stop working and I know they're pretty good at what they do. I hope they can figure it out in time to get back on track this season.

But in the end, I don't think he was throwing people under the bus, as I don't think he was wrong in what he said at all. He didn't say, "adams is just sucking, he can't catch, he can't run a route, he just sucks for us". He said the team needed to do the little things better, like run routes and beat your man. He's not wrong. You can put on a tape and see the effort he's given on some plays and you can see the result of his focus. Maybe he should just replace him, but then maybe the guys that are available to replace him with are doing the same thing day after day in practice, but worse? none of us are there to know.

 

[OldSchool101]

First of all, I saw the same game and felt the same disappointment that the rest of you felt.
Disappointment is related to expectations and I think each of us innately knows how dynamic this offense is capable of being, therefore the high degree of disappointment is understandable.
I would normally take comfort in that misery but I actually see a team that has actually been in position to win 3 of their 4 losses, even with the subpar performance we could've won another game or 2. I also see a team that is allowing 17 points per game on Defense. I see a team that could win in the playoffs if it just played B grade football on Offense because the Defense has not had the luxury of staying off the field for more than 5 minutes yet still is easily top 10.
I also see a team that will have several more solid options the next 2 weeks with a returning big veteran TE, a returning rookie WR who was just playing terrific up to his last play, and another WR who could be formidable on the deep route (Quarless, Montgomery and Abbredaris) I see a RB duo that is arguably top 10 etc..
I see the missed opportunities that are correctable but are clearly not being addressed by our staff that worries me more than anything right now. If Cobb pulls his head when he a Golfs like he does in Football? Topping the ball will be the least of his worries.
I see fundamentals in "soft" receiver routes not being addressed (with hard/sharp cut routes et..)I see serious lack of timing issues between the QB and the Receivers. I see plays breaking down due to mental mistakes. I see a QB that is frustrated and then physically demonstrates it because he knows he's a significant part of the problem.
If we can upgrade our play on Offense from D+ to B- our team will be dangerous with room to improve.
As bad as we've looked..I think we can get better by January and upset a team or two

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Like I said, they will make the playoffs, but have no shot of going deep.

REMEMBER THE GIANTS!

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Not buying the bad calls stuff. The officiating sucked, and on balance sucked worse for the Bears.

It didn't suck worse for the Bears. They took a touchdown away from us. The free play should have stood. Their DE jumped offsides and was offsides when the ball was snapped. Our OL did not move until the ball was snapped. Therefore there was no neutral zone infraction. It was simply offsides and the whistle should not have been blown. What makes it worse is they decided to think it over for 3 or 4 seconds before blowing the damn whistle. It was as if they wanted to see if it was going to be a big play or not. Cobb was gone on that play too.

 

[PackerDNA]

They gave us a TD also. But hey okay, it wasn't the opponent it was the refs.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Janis adds speed and even if he's not on the same page with Rodgers the defense has to cover him, maybe even put a safety over the top to deal with him. That would open up some space on short and intermediate routes.

I agree that Janis hasn't proven anything yet but playing him can't result in any worse play by the receivers.

Well, he's proven that he's dangerous with the ball in his hands. He's not just fast. He's strong and can break tackles. It's just a matter of getting it in his hands.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

They gave us a TD also. But hey okay, it wasn't the opponent it was the refs.

What TD did they give us?

 

[PackerDNA]

The bogus penalty that kept alive they're only TD drive.