Another lost season in Rodgers prime

[PackerDNA]

I just checked out an article / film on packersnotes.com. on the final series of the Bears game. Pretty good sum up of the issues discussed. Also, at profootballtalk.com, Rodgers gets chided a bit for calling out team mates publically. They push the point of this being something Brady and Manning don't do.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You honestly expect me to believe that those 3 guys are opening things up for Brown? If they are, the steelers have been facing the dumbest DC's on earth. Just because a guy is fast doesn't mean he opens up anything. We never had receivers that fast on the field for years and lit up the league. I'd put my money down on the presence of Brown being one of the only reasons those guys are ever open enough to see the ball. Brown has caught plenty of balls down the field this year, last year and he's catching them at a clip of 3 or 4 to 1 compared to everyone else on that team.

It´s pretty easy to understand that a fast receiver capable of getting deep in a heartbeat stretches a defense and opens up short to intermediate passing lanes. Brown has only caught 10 passes thrown 20+ yards which is only three more than James Jones. He mostly catches the ball behind or close to the LOS.

I don't buy the speed argument. We haven't been going downfield because nothing else is working. When you're going 3 and out NINE times in a game, you're not setting up any big plays. A defense isn't respecting anything. they don't have to. And previously we couldn't run and we couldn't pass protect, not a recipe for success, i don't care how much speed is on the field. Cobb Jones and Adams are all plenty fast to play WR in this league and go deep.

It´s true that speed isn´t the most important trait for a receiver but it doesn´t hurt either. With the Packers passing team struggling Janis might add an element being helpful getting out of the slump.

 

[Carl]

You honestly expect me to believe that those 3 guys are opening things up for Brown? If they are, the steelers have been facing the dumbest DC's on earth. Just because a guy is fast doesn't mean he opens up anything. We never had receivers that fast on the field for years and lit up the league. I'd put my money down on the presence of Brown being one of the only reasons those guys are ever open enough to see the ball. Brown has caught plenty of balls down the field this year, last year and he's catching them at a clip of 3 or 4 to 1 compared to everyone else on that team

Jordy nelson and dez bryant run in the 4.5's and everyone thinks they're the deep threats and they are. I suppose it's because Cobb with his better speed, keeps everyone in for the short stuff? Or maybe it was the fact we had a legitimate running game for a while with Lacy. Which I see signs of returning, in which case, Cobb, Jones, Adams, etc are all fast enough to get deep provided the line keeps protection.

I don't buy the speed argument. We haven't been going downfield because nothing else is working. When you're going 3 and out NINE times in a game, you're not setting up any big plays. A defense isn't respecting anything. they don't have to. And previously we couldn't run and we couldn't pass protect, not a recipe for success, i don't care how much speed is on the field. Cobb Jones and Adams are all plenty fast to play WR in this league and go deep.

I'm on your side Mondio. There was just an article rating teams by speed of WR. NE was 32nd and their offense is fine.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm on your side Mondio. There was just an article rating teams by speed of WR. NE was 32nd and their offense is fine.

FWIW the Packers were actually last in that category with the Patriots coming in at 31st. I´m convinced New England benefits from having the best tight end in the league though.

 

[brandon2348]

You honestly E is lacking speer

You honestly expect me to believe that those 3 guys are opening things up for Brown? If they are, the steelers have been facing the dumbest DC's on earth. Just because a guy is fast doesn't mean he opens up anything. We never had receivers that fast on the field for years and lit up the league. I'd put my money down on the presence of Brown being one of the only reasons those guys are ever open enough to see the ball. Brown has caught plenty of balls down the field this year, last year and he's catching them at a clip of 3 or 4 to 1 compared to everyone else on that team

Jordy nelson and dez bryant run in the 4.5's and everyone thinks they're the deep threats and they are. I suppose it's because Cobb with his better speed, keeps everyone in for the short stuff? Or maybe it was the fact we had a legitimate running game for a while with Lacy. Which I see signs of returning, in which case, Cobb, Jones, Adams, etc are all fast enough to get deep provided the line keeps protection.

I don't buy the speed argument. We haven't been going downfield because nothing else is working. When you're going 3 and out NINE times in a game, you're not setting up any big plays. A defense isn't respecting anything. they don't have to. And previously we couldn't run and we couldn't pass protect, not a recipe for success, i don't care how much speed is on the field. Cobb Jones and Adams are all plenty fast to play WR in this league and go deep.

Yeah I would expect someone to believe that. Go watch the Seahawk vs Steelers game from Sunday and you will see Seahawks sent Sherman everywhere Brown went and if you look close enough even gave help sometimes over the top, It opened up others and the result was Wheaton getting over 200 yards receiving and Pitt throwing for almost 500 yards. It's almost like "pick your poison". We don't have a Wheaton or Bryant type receiver and we don't have a Heath Miller at TE.

I am not a "speed freak" normally either and tend to stand on your side of this argument but right now its very obvious were lacking it right now. I don't see anybody getting behind anybody and nobody is respecting our deep passing game. It has created a situation where the windows in the short passing game have become so small that even with Aaron Rodgers the offense has stalled.

If you don't want to call it speed then fine. We simply don't have guys that can win 1 on 1 match ups right now. I am hoping when Monty comes back that might change,

 

[Mondio]

You guys are right, Cobb is way too slow to be an NFL receiver. James jones? Why even suit him up. Adams? snail out there. Jordy nelson, almost as slow as Adams and that's with 2 good knees. You know who else was terrible for us? Greg Jennings and is almost 4.5 40 speed. What a slug. you know what was worse? When we had Jennings, Jordy, James, and Cobb on the field and their 4.45-4.5+ speed. Can't believe any of them caught passes with nobody to stretch the field and all.

of course having reciever with 4.2 speed, 45 inch verticals, hands of glue and cat like reflexes 10 deep on the roster would be great. Find me them and I'll find a way to become the GM off the Packers and sign them all of the street today. Until then, we have plenty of guys with plenty of speed capable of being very productive receivers in this league.

 

[Mondio]

Yeah I would expect someone to believe that. Go watch the Seahawk vs Steelers game from Sunday and you will see Seahawks sent Sherman everywhere Brown went and if you look close enough even gave help sometimes over the top, It opened up others and the result was Wheaton getting over 200 yards receiving and Pitt throwing for almost 500 yards. It's almost like "pick your poison". We don't have a Wheaton or Bryant type receiver and we don't have a Heath Miller at TE.

I am not a "speed freak" normally either and tend to stand on your side of this argument but right now its very obvious were lacking it right now. I don't see anybody getting behind anybody and nobody is respecting our deep passing game. It has created a situation where the windows in the short passing game have become so small that even with Aaron Rodgers the offense has stalled.

If you don't want to call it speed then fine. We simply don't have guys that can win 1 on 1 match ups right now. I am hoping when Monty comes back that might change,

and up until recently, when we couldn't run on 5-6 defenders and couldn't pass block 4 rushers and couldn't stay on the field for more than 3 plays in a row, how exactly do you think this offense is going to find the plays or set things up for a big play? No play action, no pass protection, nobody catching a ball, no running game, and no consistency, of course nobody was running behind anyone. But that's not true either. Plenty of times a guy was open deep, and Rodgers was on his *** before it mattered.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You guys are right, Cobb is way too slow to be an NFL receiver. James jones? Why even suit him up. Adams? snail out there. Jordy nelson, almost as slow as Adams and that's with 2 good knees. You know who else was terrible for us? Greg Jennings and is almost 4.5 40 speed. What a slug. you know what was worse? When we had Jennings, Jordy, James, and Cobb on the field and their 4.45-4.5+ speed. Can't believe any of them caught passes with nobody to stretch the field and all.

I´m really getting tired of you mocking other posters you don´t agree with. Aside of the pointless posts criticizing someone I haven´t seen you make any meaningful suggestions for the offense to get out of their slump. Keep up the great work.

 

[milani]

And blaming the players will only get you so far, especially when it is the coaches job to put the players in the best possible position to win. However, when the coaches keep doing the same things that fail over and over again, regardless if it is "player execution" that is causing the failures, it is the coaches play calling that is the problem. Play calling is not just about calling a play and players executing it, it is about creating mismatches and utilizing different personnel for different plays.

Mike McCarthy basically has completely blamed everyone but himself and his coaching staff during his entire tenure for any problems the Packers are having. After this game he basically flat out said. Our play calling is perfect, the players are not doing their jobs. And while I do completely agree with that to an extent, it shows a level of arrogance by McCarthy that even Belichick does not display.

The arrogance of Thompson, McCarthy and Rodgers with his trust ******** is everything that is wrong with this team. When certain guys are not performing, give the other guys a chance at the very least. But what they are doing right now is absolutely not working and they are so flocking arrogant that they refuse to try anything else. It is pathetic.

I agree. Players are not executing but good coaching maximizes whatever talent is there. New England is a great example. They cycle so many players into that system and yet they win, win, win. With Bellicheck you are going to focus and prepare and deliver. Watch every single snap on both sides of the ball. That team is prepared for EVERY game. Watch the intensity. If you cannot give that they replace you. 10-0 is not good enough for them. They want to win every game. Lombardi's teams were like that. They were so well prepared. They came to play for all 60 minutes. If not Wrath awaited you on the sideline.

 

[Mondio]

I´m really getting tired of you mocking other posters you don´t agree with. Aside of the pointless posts criticizing someone I haven´t seen you make any meaningful suggestions for the offense to get out of their slump. Keep up the great work.

Oh, I'm not the only one that can be irritating in here. If you haven't seen on meaningful suggestion you haven't been paying attention. To sum up my past 50 posts in here. make the plays in front of you, and we're probably 9-2 and things are much better. If Cobb catches 1st downs and TD's instead of dropping them we're instantly better. If lacy stops fumbling seeming every game his past 4, things are better. If adams catches balls in his hands, we're doing better. We're not going to 3 and out 9 times a game. We're not losing yards 5 of 6 first half posessions. Or if you'd rather, I can join the excuse makers, but I'd rather not. excuses don't fix anything.

 

[brandon2348]

Look, I like our young guys. I like JJ. IMO everyone including myself thought Davante would be more explosive on the outside. My whole point in this thing is with Jordy getting hurt so early and there being ample time before the trade dead line to see how things shake out there was plenty of time for TT to do something to bring in a TE or WR that could help us stretch the field more to open things up.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Oh, I'm not the only one that can be irritating in here. If you haven't seen on meaningful suggestion you haven't been paying attention. To sum up my past 50 posts in here. make the plays in front of you, and we're probably 9-2 and things are much better. If Cobb catches 1st downs and TD's instead of dropping them we're instantly better. If lacy stops fumbling seeming every game his past 4, things are better. If adams catches balls in his hands, we're doing better. We're not going to 3 and out 9 times a game. We're not losing yards 5 of 6 first half posessions. Or if you'd rather, I can join the excuse makers, but I'd rather not. excuses don't fix anything.

So, you´re suggesting not to make any changes at all and do the things that haven´t worked this season over and over again. Great idea.

 

[brandon2348]

Oh, I'm not the only one that can be irritating in here. If you haven't seen on meaningful suggestion you haven't been paying attention. To sum up my past 50 posts in here. make the plays in front of you, and we're probably 9-2 and things are much better. If Cobb catches 1st downs and TD's instead of dropping rem we're instantly better. If lacy stops fumbling seeming every game his past 4, things are better. If adams catches balls in his hands, we're doing better. We're not going to 3 and out 9 times a game. We're not losing yards 5 of 6 first half posessions. Or if you'd rather, I can join the excuse makers, but I'd rather not. excuses don't fix anything.

All that stuff has been a problem I agree. Let me ask you this. When is the last time you have seen a Packer receiver or TE running free behind the defense other then from free play? 2014?

 

[Half Empty]

You guys are right, Cobb is way too slow to be an NFL receiver. James jones? Why even suit him up. Adams? snail out there. Jordy nelson, almost as slow as Adams and that's with 2 good knees. You know who else was terrible for us? Greg Jennings and is almost 4.5 40 speed. What a slug. you know what was worse? When we had Jennings, Jordy, James, and Cobb on the field and their 4.45-4.5+ speed. Can't believe any of them caught passes with nobody to stretch the field and all.

of course having reciever with 4.2 speed, 45 inch verticals, hands of glue and cat like reflexes 10 deep on the roster would be great. Find me them and I'll find a way to become the GM off the Packers and sign them all of the street today. Until then, we have plenty of guys with plenty of speed capable of being very productive receivers in this league.

Gotta love sarcasm and hyperbole. Really opens up the discussion.

 

[Mondio]

So, you´re suggesting not to make any changes at all and do the things that haven´t worked this season over and over again. Great idea.

oh, look who else can mock LOL

and yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, except this time the wide open probowl, highly paid receiver makes the catch to extend drives or make touchdowns instead of drop it. you don't think that's a good idea?

 

[Mondio]

All that stuff has been a problem I agree. Let me ask you this. When is the last time you have seen a Packer receiver or TE running free behind the defense other then from free play? 2014?

was our Oline this bad in 2014? were our drops this bad in 2014? was our running game this absent in 2014? Were we constantly going 3 and out in 2014? We have plenty of speed at the WR posistion. our deep threat we're missing is practically our slowest receiver. Speed isn't our problem

 

[Deleted member 6794]

and yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting, except this time the wide open probowl, highly paid receiver makes the catch to extend drives or make touchdowns instead of drop it. you don't think that's a good idea?

Cobb was targeted seven times vs. the Bears catching six of them and not having a chance to haul in the other pass. Seems like Cobb not dropping the ball didn´t solve all of the offense´s problems.

 

[brandon2348]

was our Oline this bad in 2014? were our drops this bad in 2014? was our running game this absent in 2014? Were we constantly going 3 and out in 2014? We have plenty of speed at the WR posistion. our deep threat we're missing is practically our slowest receiver. Speed isn't our problem

This isn't rocket science. Get teams out of "single high safety" and the running game and other things open up. Bottom line is with the cast of guys we have now they haven't been able to do it. We should be licking our chops when teams go "single high" against us and that hasn't been the case.

 

[Mondio]

This isn't rocket science. Get teams out of "single high safety" and the running game and other things open up. Bottom line is with the cast of guys we have now they haven't been able to do it. We should be licking our chops when teams go "single high" against us and that hasn't been the case.

That's true, and it's been because for most of the year Rodgers hasn't had a pocket to get comfortable in, and he hasn't had many areas to escape too. I think if we keep running like we are, the passing game will open up. i think if we catch the balls that are there to be caught, we extend drives and good things happen. It's extremely difficult to do anything positive running 3 plays at a time. i don't care who is on the field

 

[Mondio]

Cobb was targeted seven times vs. the Bears catching six of them and not having a chance to haul in the other pass. Seems like Cobb not dropping the ball didn´t solve all of the offense´s problems.

You're right, and if he was THE ONLY problem all year maybe you'd have a point. I don't care to reiterate every single issue this team has had and everthing I've said every time i don't buy into the lack of speed argument. you're smart enough to figure it out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You're right, and if he was THE ONLY problem all year maybe you'd have a point. I don't care to reiterate every single issue this team has had and everthing I've said every time i don't buy into the lack of speed argument. you're smart enough to figure it out.

There are many reasons the offense has been struggling. Hoping all of them will go up in smoke without making any changes is unrealistic. It might not help playing a speedy guy like Janis more often but after seeing him making several big plays when getting touches it´s worth a try.

 

[brandon2348]

You're right, and if he was THE ONLY problem all year maybe you'd have a point. I don't care to reiterate every single issue this team has had and everthing I've said every time i don't buy into the lack of speed argument. you're smart enough to figure it out.

You can call it "speed". You can call it "explosiveness". You can call it "playing fast." I really don't care what you call it. The fact is I haven't really seen any of that stuff out there. I see no urgency at times. I see half *** route running. I see no sense of imposing the game plan.

I am not sold that we have the right combination of guys to make it work right now. Well see. I am hoping Monty can add some of things we have been lacking when he gets back.

 

[Mondio]

I think most of them will go up in smoke when we start extending drives with the ball that is right there in their hands. They've all shown they're better than what they've been producing lately. Now that Lacy seems to be returning to form, I expect we'll see a few play action passes a game down the field again. But those don't work when you're getting 2 yards a carry or you struggling to get a single first down, let alone a string of them so you can set up plays.

Lack of available players has hindered us to a degree, and I think Abby or Monty would no doubt be seeing a lot more snaps and looks had they been available. I think the staff recognizes that Adams was slumping, a lot of times playing thru it is best. You're not getting better on the bench and there wasn't anybody to take his place anyway. With the way the line was playing and the running game working, I don't think Janis would have mattered. And when he was on the field, not much looked different save for 2 plays maybe. Fine in a pinch, but not something you base an offense on. I think for this team to do anything in the post season, either Adams plays to his ability or Abby or Monty are consistently available. I think the staff believes in Adams' ability more than Janis' and because of other players not available, they stuck with him more.

If they aren't, I do think we're at a point where the staff has basically drawn the line with Adams and want to see him make the plays or get off the field. If it's Janis at this point, great. I think with the recent improvement in pass protection and the run game, he may actually be more effective.

If Abby and Monty get out there, I think we have plenty of speed and available players to get things going.

 

[Carl]

FWIW the Packers were actually last in that category with the Patriots coming in at 31st. I´m convinced New England benefits from having the best tight end in the league though.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Carl]

So, you´re suggesting not to make any changes at all and do the things that haven´t worked this season over and over again. Great idea.

The same things did get us to 6-0 and we would be 9-2 or 10-1 with them without all the player mistakes.