ALL recent another head coach options merged-- preMM firing

[PackinMSP]

have there been...really (13-14)? wonder where that falls in compared to the league. i'm thinking probably about average. Rodgers misses (balls in the ground, over their heads, too behind/in-front, etc.) have been way more than normal. not to mention bad decisions to throw/not-throw/who-to-throw-to. he's had great moments but not been good/great as a whole so far...at least not to what we/he would like to see, and what his paycheck would infer.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ague-leaders-in-dropped-passes-after-5-games/

Kind of dated but this says the 6th most at the time.

There has definitely been a regression, I'm not saying that but I honestly put some of that on the play calls.

AR has missed throws for sure. But MM calling these short little 3 yard ins and stops or short 4 yard comebacks and not calling more plays that do more 'movement' (i.e why AR often "freelances") to get the WR open.

Those short throws in MMs offensive scheme are very stagnant and all about timing too... which the league has caught up to imho and also he doesn't have the "familiarity" with the guys outside of Adams and Allison as he did with Jordy. Cobb is almost always hurt.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

That is the bottomline isn't it?

I look at the current roster and here is my assessment.

QB: best in the league
RB: solid two headed attack that is young and not a lot of miles on them.
WR: Lots of potential with MVS and ESB. Adams is a star. Allison is fine as a third. This would be an incredible cast with Jordy back. We will have to see about Kumerow. Cobb is done.
OL: I feel it is "okay" minus the RIGHT side of the line. Bulaga is fine but he is always such a huge injury risk. We have a turnstile at RG. I would like to see this addressed in the draft.

DL: One of the more talented in the league
ILB: would be very solid if Jake Ryan were not hurt
OLB: TERRIBLE and old
CB: One of the more talented ones in the league. I feel comfortable with a trio of Alexander/King/Jackson
Safety: very thin now

I can't put my finger on it except it's just bad coaching.


If we can go OLB and then Safety/OL in the draft and sign Landon Collins we will be in decent shape going forward.

MM has to go as this team is underachieving

I won't give ya the red X here but I disagree with some of what you're saying. I don't think MVS is the future at WR.



QB: We're good at 1 and 2. If Rodgers AND Kizer go down we might be in trouble. At that point Randall Cobb is our backup.

RB: Agree with your assessment completely.

O-Line is better than ok even with a turnstile at RG (Which I agree with) and yes youa re right about Bulaga only problems he has is speed rushers and injuries.

TE needs to be upgraded. Jimmy Graham isn't Jimmy Graham anymore. We don't have young depth here either.

DL: Agree like to see if we CAN upgrade at DT, but if not we're still one of the top D Lines in the league.

ILB: Not sure I'm sold on your assessment. If Ryan comes back full speed we're fine, if not, I think we're in trouble, and it bothers me that us being good or based on the guy coming off the ACL injury's rehab.

OLB: Agreed 100%. Gilbert MIGHT be a start, haven't seen enough to prove that either way yet.

CB: Probably the best group in the league.

Safety: We didn't have much to begin with and traded all our experience away.

 

[PackinMSP]

Dude he's not any good... he hasn't been since the 2014 championship loss

 

[Half Empty]

For those fans that think the Packers coach Mike McCarthy should be fired, check how many head coaches are on the hot seat half way through this season.
There can't be that many master minds in the NFL worthy of taking a team to the Super Bowl,
so be careful what you wish for.

If you're going to limit the possibilities to current NFL head coaches, I have to agree.

 

[PikeBadger]

Rodgers' receivers in the divisional round game against the Cardinals was a washed up James Jones, and two dudes who caught a total of like 11 balls for Rodgers during the course of the regular season that year (Janis/Abbrederis). Not to mention a fat Eddie Lacy.

To your point, tough to blame McCarthy on that. Cobb went out early in that game with the chest injury, and Adams tore his MCL in the wild card game against the Redskins.

And yet McCarthy had the good fortune to have the ball in the hands of the best player on the field and needed 2 and a half yards against a wrecked, discombobulated defense with no timeouts to advance and instead played for tie and a coin flip. Bad, bad move.

 

[OldSchool101]

If we can go OLB and then Safety/OL in the draft and sign Landon Collins we will be in decent shape going forward.

Some of both talent and coaching. I see glimmers of talent in so many players but I think they don’t always get used effectively. Aaron Jones is one obvious example of this.

We can land 2 superior veteran upgrades NET in FA (e.g. OG and OLB). Then IMO we should package a couple mid round picks (4th and 5th) in the 2019 draft to move up at least once or twice day 1 or again day 2. We could go Safety, OT, RB, ILB inside the top #20-80 overall draft players or so and that could be a great infusion of talent at some thin positions.
We played much better having a young feature back in young Lacy and another RB with a different skill set might be just what the Dr ordered.

 

[PackinMSP]

I won't give ya the red X here but I disagree with some of what you're saying. I don't think MVS is the future at WR.



QB: We're good at 1 and 2. If Rodgers AND Kizer go down we might be in trouble. At that point Randall Cobb is our backup.

RB: Agree with your assessment completely.

O-Line is better than ok even with a turnstile at RG (Which I agree with) and yes youa re right about Bulaga only problems he has is speed rushers and injuries.

TE needs to be upgraded. Jimmy Graham isn't Jimmy Graham anymore. We don't have young depth here either.

DL: Agree like to see if we CAN upgrade at DT, but if not we're still one of the top D Lines in the league.

ILB: Not sure I'm sold on your assessment. If Ryan comes back full speed we're fine, if not, I think we're in trouble, and it bothers me that us being good or based on the guy coming off the ACL injury's rehab.

OLB: Agreed 100%. Gilbert MIGHT be a start, haven't seen enough to prove that either way yet.

CB: Probably the best group in the league.

Safety: We didn't have much to begin with and traded all our experience away.

MVS is a lot like a Javon Walker type of WR so you can take what you want with that assessment. That's also why I suggested in another post that we trade for OBJ, if he was available. Cobb is gone most likely. Allison is better as your 4th WR.

ILB: I was including Jake Ryan as his ACL was unfortunate.

CB: I don't think it's the best in the league... is the "potential" for best or one of hte best in the league? DEFINITELY

Safety: I'm not sure about that. HaHa played MUCH BETTER with a guy like Burnett who could lead and direct the secondary. He's not good at that and it showed this year. He's more of a Darren Sharper, a "playmaker gambler" who follows more than leads. If we could have paired him with Landon Collins and EXPECTED Collins to make all the right calls/reads then that would have been fine. Josh Jones I'm unsure of

 

[PikeBadger]

That still comes to coaching...

We have what? 6 WRs...or is it 7??

And 3 solid TEs...

Yet we don't do more SPREAD offensive looks???

I actually believe that our failure to win a super bowl since the 2010 season has more to do with coaching (especially on defense) than talent level on the roster. Our DC clearly misused guys like Raji, Hayward and Hyde.

 

[PackinMSP]

Our SB winning team was LOADED with talent though

Jennings
Jones
Driver
Nelson

Finley

Woodson
Collins

Clay, Raji, Tramon... all in their primes

What I really don't understand is... how has MM not decided to use a similar SPREAD and no huddle approach as he did with that team?? With the current roster..

or are MVC and ESB just not geting the playbook fast enough?

 

[gbgary]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ague-leaders-in-dropped-passes-after-5-games/

Kind of dated but this says the 6th most at the time.

There has definitely been a regression, I'm not saying that but I honestly put some of that on the play calls.

AR has missed throws for sure. But MM calling these short little 3 yard ins and stops or short 4 yard comebacks and not calling more plays that do more 'movement' (i.e why AR often "freelances") to get the WR open.

Those short throws in MMs offensive scheme are very stagnant and all about timing too... which the league has caught up to imho and also he doesn't have the "familiarity" with the guys outside of Adams and Allison as he did with Jordy. Cobb is almost always hurt.

my drop numbers were as of today but from 2 different sites (one said 13, one said 14). as for MM's short throws just remember almost every play that Rodgers gets sent to him is a run/pass option. in west coast offense (even the highly modified version the Packers run) the short pass is a staple. i've grown tired of the wr screens (that the Packers used to thrive with) as they've been figured out for the most part. suddenly the slant has disappeared. had Rodgers thrown a slant to the wide open MVS, on the one yard line play, that safety could have been avoided. the TE position is a big part of the WCO but not with this team/Rodgers. his "freelancing" is more a product of him looking for the big play rather than guys not being open. most of the time someone was open but he looked for something else. it's a mystery.

 

[PackinMSP]

I actually believe that our failure to win a super bowl since the 2010 season has more to do with coaching (especially on defense) than talent level on the roster. Our DC clearly misused guys like Raji, Hayward and Hyde.

I wouldn't say BJ Raji as he just got hurt and fell of a cliff basically...

Not to mention.. when Raji left was right around when Daniels was starting to make it "click".

BJ was better with a second guy like Jolly or Pickett to help him out to get sacks.

I think it's also on the offensive side. With AR and the stable of WRs and TEs, and you know he's willing to throw it 40+ times a game, I dont see how we don't score atleast 31 points a game with today's "NFL Rules"

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

For those fans that think the Packers coach Mike McCarthy should be fired, check how many head coaches are on the hot seat half way through this season.
There can't be that many master minds in the NFL worthy of taking a team to the Super Bowl,
so be careful what you wish for.

I'll play your little game and rattle off a ton of coaches with big old hot seats about ready to burn their butts off who must have winning seasons or be fired

Hottest seat in football:

1. Adam Gase - A display of stupidity unlike anything ever seen before

2. Marvin Lewis - He needs to **** of Cincy already and should have been gone 8 years ago

3. Jason Garrett - The clown of D-Town

4. Kyle Shanahan putting out putrid offenses in Levi Stadium

5. Jay Gruden - I bumped him down a bit only because Philly decided to take a nap to open this season. If they get it together, don't expect the Redskins early season magic to keep up

6. Dirk Koetter - AWFUL

7. Sean McDermott

8. It might be only year one, but I'm highly unimpressed with Patricia in Detroit

9. John Gruden seems to have lost his touch

10. Mike Vrabel

11. And of course Hugh Jackson though who knows what will come of him.

 

[El Guapo]

Like all teams, there is a lack of talent to a degree. The coaching may indeed be deficient as well. Since neither of those seem too far out of whack (except for OLB), I think that the third leg on this stool is team chemistry. When I say team, that includes coaches.

Something is wrong with this team and I'm not sure that either bad coaches or bad players are the culprit - even combined. Something isn't clicking. It's like a car lacking power. We could go with the easy big guesses, like it doesn't have a big enough motor or the driver doesn't know how to drive it to the limits. It could be a bad tank of gas or a plug/coil that isn't allowing the plugs to fire. Rodger's frustration every week seems to hint at my theory. If we can go off of one game (really can't), the defense seems to be coming together but the offense is sputtering. The addition of Joe Philbin was supposed to (in my mind) bring the offense back together again. Maybe McCarthy and Philbin shouldn't have torn the playbook apart like they claimed to have done in the offseason!

 

[PikeBadger]

I wouldn't say BJ Raji as he just got hurt and fell of a cliff basically...

Not to mention.. when Raji left was right around when Daniels was starting to make it "click".

BJ was better with a second guy like Jolly or Pickett to help him out to get sacks.

I think it's also on the offensive side. With AR and the stable of WRs and TEs, and you know he's willing to throw it 40+ times a game, I dont see how we don't score atleast 31 points a game with today's "NFL Rules"

Raji got moved away from NT in 2011. He was a guy who possessed incredible quickness for his size and the DC neutralized him by moving him out of the middle and playing him on too many snaps imo. Capers wasted that high 1st round pick.

 

[Mondio]

Our SB winning team was LOADED with talent though

Jennings
Jones
Driver
Nelson

Finley

Woodson
Collins

Clay, Raji, Tramon... all in their primes

What I really don't understand is... how has MM not decided to use a similar SPREAD and no huddle approach as he did with that team?? With the current roster..

or are MVC and ESB just not geting the playbook fast enough?

Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Finley, go get the rookie stats and get back to me.

What they became was nothing close to what they were as rookies

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Our SB winning team was LOADED with talent though

Jennings
Jones
Driver
Nelson

Finley

Woodson
Collins

Clay, Raji, Tramon... all in their primes

Great.... now can you name some coaches in the NFL that coached under the Mike Holmgren years that became successful head coaches.
There were 5 if I counted right.

 

[rmontro]

Cowherd and his guest (can't remember his name) both said today that if McCarthy gets fired from Green Bay this year, Cleveland would be a good spot for him because John Dorsey is there, and he would have a talented young quarterback to work with. I know everybody hates Cowherd, but I thought that actually made sense. Which is not to say McCarthy will be fired, but if we miss the playoffs, his seat will be getting warm.

It's possible they let him stay an extra year even if we do miss the playoffs though. The Clinton-Dix trade suggests Gute is building for the future, and has at least one more year to go in a multi-year plan to fix Ted's mess.

 

[weeds]

I wanted to post in the conspiracy thread...but Poppa has a hair trigger thread lock tool or something.

 

[Poppa San]

I wanted to post in the conspiracy thread...but Poppa has a hair trigger thread lock tool or something.

We have multiple complain about the coach threads. Take your pick to explain your CT.

 

[weeds]

We have multiple complain about the coach threads. Take your pick to explain your CT.

They're not NEAR as ridiculous as the "Conspiracy" thread. It's important to crap all over those things when the opportunity presents itself. (whimper, snivel, grunt).

Don't get all serious on me.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I was going to get into more stuff but frankly I'm pretty tired if debating the causes of past failings. Just one more note. He mentioned losing to the Bills on the road in 2014. While few may realize it, that was one of the best defenses of this decade, a 9-7 team with a pretty anemic offense. That's a pretty good example of "the other guys get paid too". Their defensive talent played better than the Packers offensive talent that day.

Yeah, the Packers running game was GREAT during that game and ROdgers was awful, so what did the team do? Rodgers threw the most passes of his career and the team lost by less than a TD. So the defensive talent wasn't the problem. I think two RBs were averaging over 6 yards per carry during that game.

 

[PackAttack12]

And yet McCarthy had the good fortune to have the ball in the hands of the best player on the field and needed 2 and a half yards against a wrecked, discombobulated defense with no timeouts to advance and instead played for tie and a coin flip. Bad, bad move.

Stop it. If the Packers don’t convert McCarthy would have gotten crucified. For you to say he should deserve blame for the loss because he chose to do what 31 other NFL coaches would have done is utterly insane.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yeah, the Packers running game was GREAT during that game and ROdgers was awful, so what did the team do? Rodgers threw the most passes of his career and the team lost by less than a TD. So the defensive talent wasn't the problem. I think two RBs were averaging over 6 yards per carry during that game.

According to your telling, the Packer offensive talent was the problem, specifically Rodgers.

 

[PikeBadger]

Stop it. If the Packers don’t convert McCarthy would have gotten crucified. For you to say he should deserve blame for the loss because he chose to do what 31 other NFL coaches would have done is utterly insane.

He had the game in his hands. Do you want to get 2 and a half yards in one play with the best player on the field against a defense in shambles, or try to go 80 yards with backup receivers? It was so instantly obvious to me that he should go for it. No one will ever convince me otherwise. It was gift wrapped for. him. We had the game stolen. He handed it back.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Do you want to get 2 and a half yards in one play with the best player on the field against a defense in shambles....

Rodgers might have done something "awful" like in the Buffalo game you cited, right?

Your arguments sound like scapegoating and hindsight. If they pass instead of run and lose, they should have run. If they kick and lose, why not use the best player on the field? If they went for it and didn't get it, I expect you'd complain about that. Atomizing games down to a single play or even the game plan loses the forest for the trees.

The Packers did not lose to Seattle because they didn't have home field advantage because they lost to the Bills. And they didn't lose to Seattle because of any one play. They lost because the defense lacked a culture of closing. It was a collective effort.