GleefulGary
Cheesehead
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- Sep 9, 2017
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Gross.Let's get Shenault and Isabella. We can have a battle royale in the WR room to see who comes out on top at slot.
Gross.Let's get Shenault and Isabella. We can have a battle royale in the WR room to see who comes out on top at slot.
Gross.
Listing out all the various "realistic" FA options
Free Agents:
TreQuan Smith - He is one of the few 26 or younger guys on the top 30 still available and he has produced similar statistics to Lazard. He fits the tendencies of GB WRs, he is a bigger 6'2' 210lb guy with reasonable speed 4.49 forty time. He had a respectable RAS when he came out few years back at 6.86 and illustrated elite level vertical (37.5) and broad (10ft10in). He is one of a few guys GB may be able to sign to a two or three year deal even that hasn't reached ceiling arguably and could be a steal if he finally lives up to expectations in a new place outside New Orleans.
Let's get Shenault and Isabella. We can have a battle royale in the WR room to see who comes out on top at slot.
At this point, given the cap situation, I think the best approach is wait until after the draft to look at WR.
Just for the record, Tre'Quan Smith re-signed with the Saints yesterday.
Ya, but the context to that is that he moved outside only because of Chark's injury, prior to that had heavy usage in the slot. In 2020 they tried him more outside, but he's too raw and doesn't have deep speed. He's a slot guy going forward IMO.Shenault has actually lined up on the outside more often than in the slot. The Packers shouldn't even thinking about inquiring about Isabella.
Ya, but the context to that is that he moved outside only because of Chark's injury, prior to that had heavy usage in the slot. In 2020 they tried him more outside, but he's too raw and doesn't have deep speed. He's a slot guy going forward IMO.
Evidently Gute was in attendance at Ohio State's pro day on Wednesday.I was listening to Chris Simms' podcast today. He ranked his top 5 WR's in the draft. I must say I'm pretty excited about what the Packers can pick up in the first two rounds.
His list is unconventional:
1. Jameson Williams - Alabama
2. Christian Watson - North Dakota
3. Alec Pierce - Cincinnati
4. Treylon Burks - Arkansas
5. Drake London - USC
Not ranked: Garrett Wilson (Ohio State), Chris Olave (Ohio State), Jahan Dotson (Penn State)
Watson and Pierce are the outliers, but I like that Simms has good reasons to rank them that high. Simms favors physical traits over production because production can be so dependent on offensive scheme and QB play.
He said the high-end WR talent was better last year (Chase, Weddle, D. Johnson) but that this class is deeper.
I could see the Packers using one 1st round pick and one 2nd round pick on a WR, but not two 1st's. That still gives the Packers a 1st and 2nd to draft for other positions.
Evidently Gute was in attendance at Ohio State's pro day on Wednesday.
I agree... always viewed Shenault as limited.Ya, but the context to that is that he moved outside only because of Chark's injury, prior to that had heavy usage in the slot. In 2020 they tried him more outside, but he's too raw and doesn't have deep speed. He's a slot guy going forward IMO.
I'd love it if GB got Wilson, Olave or Burks in the 1st, and if Watson or Pierce fell to our 2nd round pick grab them. Don't like Drake London, while he makes tough, acrobatic catches he's ALWAYS blanketed by CB's which to me means he's not getting any separation at all.Evidently Gute was in attendance at Ohio State's pro day on Wednesday.
I agree... always viewed Shenault as limited.
Don't like Drake London, while he makes tough, acrobatic catches he's ALWAYS blanketed by CB's which to me means he's not getting any separation at all.
I'd love it if GB got Wilson, Olave or Burks in the 1st, and if Watson or Pierce fell to our 2nd round pick grab them. Don't like Drake London, while he makes tough, acrobatic catches he's ALWAYS blanketed by CB's which to me means he's not getting any separation at all.
Agree that waiting until after the draft some of the FA's still out there will have more reasonable price tags.
One name that gets very little mention is Sammy Watkins. I dismissed him as an option because it seems like he's always injured and/or underperforming. That said, NextGen stats still has him as an elite player regard to speed (21.05 mph).
Ya, but the context to that is that he moved outside only because of Chark's injury, prior to that had heavy usage in the slot. In 2020 they tried him more outside, but he's too raw and doesn't have deep speed. He's a slot guy going forward IMO.
One name that gets very little mention is Sammy Watkins. I dismissed him as an option because it seems like he's always injured and/or underperforming. That said, NextGen stats still has him as an elite player regard to speed (21.05 mph).
Seems like the best place to drop this.
I've seen a lot of talk about how much production can really be expected out of a rookie wide receiver. Of course, a lot of that is going to come down to scheme, quarterback, competition at WR (for instance, we've talked about how first-year WRs in GB have often faced a very crowded and well-established WR room, likely bringing their impact down), any number of things. But, just looking at some raw numbers, here is what I found.
I pretty much just looked at WRs taken in the first three rounds in the last 5 years. Of course there are some exceptions, but by-and-large you're not finding a lot of Year One "Impact" players past the first few rounds.
Keeping it pretty simple...just looked at total receptions, total yards, and total TDs in their rookie seasons - and then split each category into four "tiers" each: For receptions I looked at players who had 50+, players who had 25-49 rec, players who had 10-24, and players who had less than 10 rec their rookie season. For yards, I split it as 500+ yards, 250-499 yards, 100-249 yards, and 0-99 yards. And finally, for TDs - 5+ TD, 3-4 TD, 1-2 TD, and 0 TD. Oh, and it's all regular season only, for now.
Anyways, with all that in mind...
There were 20 players taken in the first three rounds in the last 5 years who topped 50+ rec in their rookie season. They are:
JuJu Smith-Schuster (2017, 2/62) - 58 rec; Cooper Kupp (2017, 3/69) - 62 ; DJ Moore (2018, 1/24) - 55 ; Calvin Ridley (2018, 1/26) - 64 ; Deebo Samuel (2019, 2/36) - 57; AJ Brown (2019, 2/51) - 52; DK Metcalf (2019, 2/64) - 58; Diontae Johnson (2019, 3/66) - 59; Terry McLaurin (2019, 3/76) - 58; Jerry Jeudy (2020, 1/15) - 52; CeeDee Lamb (2020, 1/17) - 74; Justin Jefferson (2020, 1/22) - 88; Brandon Aiyuk (2020, 1/25) - 60; Tee Higgins (2020, 2/33) - 67; Laviska Shenault (2020, 2/42) - 58; Chase Claypool (2020, 2/49) - 62; Ja'Marr Chase (2021, 1/5) - 81; Jaylen Waddle (2021, 1/6) - 104; DeVonta Smith (2021, 1/10) - 64; Rondale Moore (2021, 2/49) - 54
Additionally there were another 28 who topped 500+ yards in their first season:
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 917; Cooper Kupp - 869; Chris Godwin (2017, 3/84) - 525; DJ Moore - 788; Calvin Ridley - 821; Courtland Sutton (2018, 2/40) - 704; Christian Kirk (2018, 2/47) - 590; Michael Gallup (2018, 3/81) - 507; Marquise Brown (2019, 1/25) - 584; Deebo Samuel - 802; AJ Brown - 1,051; Mecole Hardman (2019, 2/56) - 538; DK Metcalf - 900; Diontae Johnson - 680; Terry McLaurin - 919; Jerry Jeudy - 856; CeeDee Lamb - 935; Justin Jefferson - 1,400; Brandon Aiyuk - 748; Tee Higgins - 908; Michael Pittman Jr (2020, 2/34) - 503; Laviska Shenault - 600; Chase Claypool - 873; Ja'Marr Chase - 1,455; Jaylen Waddle - 1,015; DeVonta Smith - 916, Rashod Bateman (2021, 1/27) - 515; Elijah Moore (2021, 2/34) - 538
And there were 22 who caught 5 or more touchdowns:
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 7; Cooper Kupp - 5; Calvin Ridley - 10; Dante Pettis (2018, 2/44) - 5; Anthony Miller (2018, 2/51) - 7; TreQuan Smith (2018, 3/91) - 5; Marquise Brown - 7; AJ Brown - 8; Mecole Hardman - 6; DK Metcalf - 7; Diontae Johnson - 5; Terry McLaurin - 7; CeeDee Lamb - 5; Justin Jefferson - 7; Brandon Aiyuk - 5; Tee Higgins - 6; Laviska Shenault - 8; Chase Claypool - 9; JaMarr Chase - 13; Jaylen Waddle - 6; DeVonta Smith - 5; Elijah Moore - 5
So finally, looking at all three...By my count there have been 13 players drafted in the first three rounds of each of the last 5 drafts who have caught at least 50 receptions, 500 yards, and 5 TD in their rookie seasons (regular season). They are:
2017 - JuJu Smith-Schuster (2/62) - 58 rec, 917 yards, 7 TD
2017 - Cooper Kupp (3/69) - 62 rec, 869 yards, 5 TD
2018 - Calvin Ridley (1/26) - 64 rec, 821 yards, 10 TD
2019 - AJ Brown (2/51) - 52 rec, 1051 yards, 8 TD
2019 - DK Metcalf (2/64) - 58 rec, 900 yards, 7 TD
2019 - Diontae Johnson (3/66) - 59 rec, 680 yards, 5 TD
2019 - Terry McLaurin (3/76) - 58 rec, 919 yards, 7 TD
2020 - CeeDee Lamb (1/17) - 74 rec, 935 yards, 5 TD
2020 - Justin Jefferson (1/22) - 88 rec, 1400 yards, 7 TD
2020 - Brandon Aiyuk (1/25) - 60 rec, 748 yards, 5 TD
2020 - Tee Higgins (2/33) - 67 rec, 908 yards, 6 TD
2020 - Laviska Shenault (2/42) - 58 rec, 600 yards, 8 TD
2020 - Chase Claypool (2/49) - 62 rec, 873 yards, 9 TD
2021 - JaMarr Chase (1/5) - 81 rec, 1455 yards, 13 TD
2021 - Jaylen Waddle (1/6) - 104 rec, 1015 yards, 6 TD
2021 - DeVonta Smith (1/10) - 64 rec, 916 yards, 5 TD
So, for whatever it's worth, 12 of those 13 came at the 22nd pick or later, if that means anything
Fantastic! This tells the story of rookie receivers about as good as it can. They might be decent, but if you expect them to be the top dog the minute they hit the field in the NFL, forget about it. They need to learn the system, and how to shed what is obviously tremendously better defenders than they probably ever saw in college, and it's one after another, not one now and then.Seems like the best place to drop this.
I've seen a lot of talk about how much production can really be expected out of a rookie wide receiver. Of course, a lot of that is going to come down to scheme, quarterback, competition at WR (for instance, we've talked about how first-year WRs in GB have often faced a very crowded and well-established WR room, likely bringing their impact down), any number of things. But, just looking at some raw numbers, here is what I found.
I pretty much just looked at WRs taken in the first three rounds in the last 5 years. Of course there are some exceptions, but by-and-large you're not finding a lot of Year One "Impact" players past the first few rounds.
Keeping it pretty simple...just looked at total receptions, total yards, and total TDs in their rookie seasons - and then split each category into four "tiers" each: For receptions I looked at players who had 50+, players who had 25-49 rec, players who had 10-24, and players who had less than 10 rec their rookie season. For yards, I split it as 500+ yards, 250-499 yards, 100-249 yards, and 0-99 yards. And finally, for TDs - 5+ TD, 3-4 TD, 1-2 TD, and 0 TD. Oh, and it's all regular season only, for now.
Anyways, with all that in mind...
There were 20 players taken in the first three rounds in the last 5 years who topped 50+ rec in their rookie season. They are:
JuJu Smith-Schuster (2017, 2/62) - 58 rec; Cooper Kupp (2017, 3/69) - 62 ; DJ Moore (2018, 1/24) - 55 ; Calvin Ridley (2018, 1/26) - 64 ; Deebo Samuel (2019, 2/36) - 57; AJ Brown (2019, 2/51) - 52; DK Metcalf (2019, 2/64) - 58; Diontae Johnson (2019, 3/66) - 59; Terry McLaurin (2019, 3/76) - 58; Jerry Jeudy (2020, 1/15) - 52; CeeDee Lamb (2020, 1/17) - 74; Justin Jefferson (2020, 1/22) - 88; Brandon Aiyuk (2020, 1/25) - 60; Tee Higgins (2020, 2/33) - 67; Laviska Shenault (2020, 2/42) - 58; Chase Claypool (2020, 2/49) - 62; Ja'Marr Chase (2021, 1/5) - 81; Jaylen Waddle (2021, 1/6) - 104; DeVonta Smith (2021, 1/10) - 64; Rondale Moore (2021, 2/49) - 54
Additionally there were another 28 who topped 500+ yards in their first season:
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 917; Cooper Kupp - 869; Chris Godwin (2017, 3/84) - 525; DJ Moore - 788; Calvin Ridley - 821; Courtland Sutton (2018, 2/40) - 704; Christian Kirk (2018, 2/47) - 590; Michael Gallup (2018, 3/81) - 507; Marquise Brown (2019, 1/25) - 584; Deebo Samuel - 802; AJ Brown - 1,051; Mecole Hardman (2019, 2/56) - 538; DK Metcalf - 900; Diontae Johnson - 680; Terry McLaurin - 919; Jerry Jeudy - 856; CeeDee Lamb - 935; Justin Jefferson - 1,400; Brandon Aiyuk - 748; Tee Higgins - 908; Michael Pittman Jr (2020, 2/34) - 503; Laviska Shenault - 600; Chase Claypool - 873; Ja'Marr Chase - 1,455; Jaylen Waddle - 1,015; DeVonta Smith - 916, Rashod Bateman (2021, 1/27) - 515; Elijah Moore (2021, 2/34) - 538
And there were 22 who caught 5 or more touchdowns:
JuJu Smith-Schuster - 7; Cooper Kupp - 5; Calvin Ridley - 10; Dante Pettis (2018, 2/44) - 5; Anthony Miller (2018, 2/51) - 7; TreQuan Smith (2018, 3/91) - 5; Marquise Brown - 7; AJ Brown - 8; Mecole Hardman - 6; DK Metcalf - 7; Diontae Johnson - 5; Terry McLaurin - 7; CeeDee Lamb - 5; Justin Jefferson - 7; Brandon Aiyuk - 5; Tee Higgins - 6; Laviska Shenault - 8; Chase Claypool - 9; JaMarr Chase - 13; Jaylen Waddle - 6; DeVonta Smith - 5; Elijah Moore - 5
So finally, looking at all three...By my count there have been 13 players drafted in the first three rounds of each of the last 5 drafts who have caught at least 50 receptions, 500 yards, and 5 TD in their rookie seasons (regular season). They are:
2017 - JuJu Smith-Schuster (2/62) - 58 rec, 917 yards, 7 TD
2017 - Cooper Kupp (3/69) - 62 rec, 869 yards, 5 TD
2018 - Calvin Ridley (1/26) - 64 rec, 821 yards, 10 TD
2019 - AJ Brown (2/51) - 52 rec, 1051 yards, 8 TD
2019 - DK Metcalf (2/64) - 58 rec, 900 yards, 7 TD
2019 - Diontae Johnson (3/66) - 59 rec, 680 yards, 5 TD
2019 - Terry McLaurin (3/76) - 58 rec, 919 yards, 7 TD
2020 - CeeDee Lamb (1/17) - 74 rec, 935 yards, 5 TD
2020 - Justin Jefferson (1/22) - 88 rec, 1400 yards, 7 TD
2020 - Brandon Aiyuk (1/25) - 60 rec, 748 yards, 5 TD
2020 - Tee Higgins (2/33) - 67 rec, 908 yards, 6 TD
2020 - Laviska Shenault (2/42) - 58 rec, 600 yards, 8 TD
2020 - Chase Claypool (2/49) - 62 rec, 873 yards, 9 TD
2021 - JaMarr Chase (1/5) - 81 rec, 1455 yards, 13 TD
2021 - Jaylen Waddle (1/6) - 104 rec, 1015 yards, 6 TD
2021 - DeVonta Smith (1/10) - 64 rec, 916 yards, 5 TD
So, for whatever it's worth, 12 of those 13 came at the 22nd pick or later, if that means anything
I would hope our #1 would get more than 70 receptions and 800 yards but I agree I would like to see our #1 and #2 be a bit closer.In his 4 years in GB, most as our "#2" WR MVS averaged 41 receptions for an average of 538 yds/season. I'm really hoping without a top-end #1 getting 115+ receptions and 1,300 yds/season, but a pretty good #1 AND #2 we'll see each get 65-70 receptions and 750-800 yds/season from 2 new WR's in GB. With Lazard still as #3 he'll continue getting his 35-40 receptions for 475 yds./season and the offense will be much better balanced and unpredictable.
Well this is a huge opportunity for Lazard and Amari Rodgers to start pulling there weight, get motivated and play for the big contract.I would hope our #1 would get more than 70 receptions and 800 yards but I agree I would like to see our #1 and #2 be a bit closer.
Also, I don't know that we really had anyone I would consider our #2. I think several guys took turns as a the games played out. I know you probably meant that by putting the #2 in quotes but IMO it was by necessity due to lack of talent.
I meant that our 2 (or more?) new draftees could work their way up to #1 & #2 as the season went on, and see 65-70 receptions for 7-800 yards and not feel the pressure to match Adams' production. They could be productive rookies without NEEDING to try to carry the weight of 100 receptions... work up to NFL game-speed while still be productive.I would hope our #1 would get more than 70 receptions and 800 yards but I agree I would like to see our #1 and #2 be a bit closer.