Value of that 4th round HaHa pick

[Deleted member 6794]

If williams comes back and plays the same play just as badly this week for another TD, then he's on pace with HaHa. Because HaHa did it, I watched him in back to back weeks give up the same exact TD. one by not being where he was supposed to be, the other by not even reacting to it when he was. anyway, he got dragged 10 yards for a TD again this week. I don't miss him.

Hopefully Williams will be able to suppress such mistakes going forward as otherwise the Packers will definitely miss Clinton-Dix.

 

[swhitset]

Hopefully Williams will be able to suppress such mistakes going forward as otherwise the Packers will definitely miss Clinton-Dix.

You might... i’m not so sure about the Packers.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Some people think haha is a good player, I don't. I also don't think he was good for the team. He was going to leave in free agency so getting a 4th is a good value. And the pick is much more valuable than Dix would have been going forward as he's gonna demand a contract worth way more than I'd be willing to pay him.

He's not terrible, but he never was a great tackler, and has been known to take some awful pursuit angles. His heart didn't seem to be in it this year.

I'm looking forward to the draft pick.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I noticed you conveniently left out:

• Vince Biegel
• Carl Bradford
• Jerron McMillian
• Quinn Johnson
• Jeremy Thompson

So yes, a 4th rounder can net you a decent player, but it can come up empty too.

Might have to add J'Mon Moore to your list if something doesn't change.....Disappointing so far.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Might have to add J'Mon Moore to your list if something doesn't change.....Disappointing so far.

So far, you are right, but given that he was a 4th rounder and still a rookie, I will wait and see on him. Hoping he is a lot like many great Packer receivers, just a bit slow out of the gate.

 

[PikeBadger]

Might have to add J'Mon Moore to your list if something doesn't change.....Disappointing so far.

Very, very early for that type of assessment. It’s not exactly normal for 4th rounders to make big contributions in their first half season on units filled with veterans and other rookies. I’m surprised at Scantling’s positive impact this soon.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Very, very early for that type of assessment. It’s not exactly normal for 4th rounders to make big contributions in their first half season on units filled with veterans and other rookies. I’m surprised at Scantling’s positive impact this soon.

I agree and if there was one rookie I would say I am moderately disappointed in right now its Oren Burks. I think a lot of us questioned his abilities to be a 3rd round pick. I know he is just a rookie and was injured to start the season, but seems when he does play, he has pretty much been invisible.

Hoping for development!

 

[swhitset]

I agree and if there was one rookie I would say I am moderately disappointed in right now its Oren Burks. I think a lot of us questioned his abilities to be a 3rd round pick. I know he is just a rookie and was injured to start the season, but seems when he does play, he has pretty much been invisible.

Hoping for development!

I have to say, while i am no draft expert... I was very puzzled by the Burks selection.

 

[mradtke66]

I agree and if there was one rookie I would say I am moderately disappointed in right now its Oren Burks. I think a lot of us questioned his abilities to be a 3rd round pick. I know he is just a rookie and was injured to start the season, but seems when he does play, he has pretty much been invisible.

Hoping for development!

Food for thought:

We was drafted as a coverage player. If you're not hearing/seeing him, is he performing his job correctly?

 

[Heyjoe4]

The following were among the 4th round selections by the packers in the past 11 drafts:

Mike Daniels
Bahktiari
Josh Sitton
T.J. Lang
Blake Martinez
Jamaal Williams
Dean Lowry
J.C. Tretter
Jake Ryan
J'Mon Moore

This pick could very well be of value.

Wow! Nice research. The 4th round has been good for GB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if HHCD was to walk in free agency coming off season, wouldn't we likely get a compensatory pick of at least a 4th rounder anyway? I would've rather kept him then, given our safety play has been miserable this season.

You are correct. I think the decision to cut him was based on his comment that he didn’t expect to be with GB next year. That messes with team chemistry and second guessing the player - is he really playing as hard as he can if he knows he’ll be gone soon? And that cuts both ways. In a contract year you’d expect a much greater effort. Anyway, I think it came down to him being a distraction, same with Ty M.

 

[sschind]

Might have to add J'Mon Moore to your list if something doesn't change.....Disappointing so far.

I'm not sure what you expect from a rookie 4th round WR in the 10th week of the season. If JM has the exact same season he has had so far without the drops in the preseason to put the spotlight on him I'm not sure he gets any attention at all

 

[sschind]

Very, very early for that type of assessment. It’s not exactly normal for 4th rounders to make big contributions in their first half season on units filled with veterans and other rookies. I’m surprised at Scantling’s positive impact this soon.

Given the injuries that seem to hit the Packers receiving corps every year I am not really surprised that one of the rookies has stepped up. I can't say I would have picked the right one though as it seemed to be a toss up. You are right though, to expect it from a rookie not drafted on day 1 or 2 is a bit much and to be already considering labeling them a bust is far to premature.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree and if there was one rookie I would say I am moderately disappointed in right now its Oren Burks. I think a lot of us questioned his abilities to be a 3rd round pick. I know he is just a rookie and was injured to start the season, but seems when he does play, he has pretty much been invisible.

Hoping for development!

Indeed. The part I didn’t get was why we traded 2 players to get him. There’s a solid chance he’s there to open day 3 (which was our acquired trade with Cleveland)
I’m not saying he’s a wasted pick just yet.. but maybe he meeting the threshold of a wasted packaging “ 2 picks”!

Coincidentally, I wouldn’t be opposed to doing something similar as far as packaging that bonus 4th with our late 1st rounder or even our second round pick in order to move up a bit.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Indeed. The part I didn’t get was why we traded 2 players to get him. There’s a solid chance he’s there to open day 3 (which was our acquired trade with Cleveland)
I’m not saying he’s a wasted pick just yet.. but maybe he’s a wasted 2 picks!

You saying it may turn into a "Spriggs like move"?

 

[mradtke66]

You are correct. I think the decision to cut him was based on his comment that he didn’t expect to be with GB next year. That messes with team chemistry and second guessing the player - is he really playing as hard as he can if he knows he’ll be gone soon? And that cuts both ways. In a contract year you’d expect a much greater effort. Anyway, I think it came down to him being a distraction, same with Ty M.

Only partially correct.

We are getting a 4th in 2019 for Ha-Ha. Any comp. pick would be in 2020. You're getting benefit sooner

And a 3rd round comp pick more or less requires a highest-paid-for-your-position kind of contract. Depending on the contract he receives coupled with how well he played in the 2019 season, it could have easily turned into a 5th.

AND those picks are at the end the round. You can think of a 4th round comp to be "the first of the 5th round," so you're getting more value.

And the biggest problem is Comp Picks work on a Gain vs. Loss formula. If we sign a single FA with roughly the same contract that Ha-Ha gets, ta-da, zip comp pick. If we sign a guy for 1/2 the contract Ha-Ha signed, we might lose it or the pick is down graded. Just like that, we get a 6th instead.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm not sure what you expect from a rookie 4th round WR in the 10th week of the season. If JM has the exact same season he has had so far without the drops in the preseason to put the spotlight on him I'm not sure he gets any attention at all

I'd expect him to be ahead of the rookie 5th and 6th round picks.

He isn't.

 

[OldSchool101]

You saying it may turn into a "Spriggs like move"?

Yeah now that you mention it, we haven’t exactly been successful lately packaging multiple picks to move up the board outside of Clay Mathews 26th overall. It’s no mistake that the later the pick the less the success.

Spriggs 2nd (48th overall)
Burks 3rd
Hundley 5th

I think we could turn it into a Clay Mathews like move if the right scenario presents. Especially if we end up picking inside the top 20 in order. We could go after another 1st round pick say
#20 GB
#29 (Hypothetical Saints acquisition)
#32 (trading 2nd, 3rd, 4th)

That’s a scenario where a 4th could be used to pony up and attain a third 5th year options to overlap #12s contract. If we combined that with picking up a couple quality veteran FA picks in areas of concern, we could have viable options at
OLB, ILB, OT, Safety, OG with two being FAs and 3 being first day picks.
Still leaving our 4th, 5th, 6th,7th for depth.

It’s all hypothetical but just another way to think outside the box using mid rounders with some fresh draft strategy. It’s time to keep our foot on the gas from where we started in 2018 IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You might... i’m not so sure about the Packers.

The Packers definitely will miss Clinton-Dix if Williams continues to make mistakes like on Gordon's touchdown catch.

Food for thought:

We was drafted as a coverage player. If you're not hearing/seeing him, is he performing his job correctly?

FWIW PFF has currently graded Burks at 41.6. That would rank 78th out of 81 linebackers if he played enough snaps to qualify.

You saying it may turn into a "Spriggs like move"?

Please, don't open Pandora's box again

 

[PackAttack12]

Clinton-Dix is not going to make the difference in winning or losing, or for that matter even appearing in the Super Bowl. The Packers absolutely made the correct decision.

 

[sschind]

I'd expect him to be ahead of the rookie 5th and 6th round picks.

He isn't.

I'm not sure that is a realistic expectation. They are all rookies and some were touting ESB as day 2 pick. I know he isn't ahead of MVS either but my point is there are a lot of things that go into draft position. With day three picks I don't really have any expectations of one player over another simply because his name was called earlier in the day. I certainly wouldn't be considering calling him a bust based on half a season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have no clue where Moore is in regards to development. Seems like it is just a matter of getting him catching the ball consistently and with confidence. A Packer fan has to be pretty damn excited about these 3 guys this early in their careers. MVS is showing some really good skills already. EQ is progressing slowly and I think with some upper body bulk in the off season (maybe his Dad will help), he could have a future. Moore has the speed, athletic ability and skill set, just needs to regain his confidence.

 

[Southside]

I have no clue where Moore is in regards to development. Seems like it is just a matter of getting him catching the ball consistently and with confidence. A Packer fan has to be pretty damn excited about these 3 guys this early in their careers. MVS is showing some really good skills already. EQ is progressing slowly and I think with some upper body bulk in the off season (maybe his Dad will help), he could have a future. Moore has the speed, athletic ability and skill set, just needs to regain his confidence.

Moore is by far the slowest of the three rookie wide receivers. He runs a modest 4.6 40. Not fast for a wide receiver. St. Brown runs a 4.48 which is good and Valdes-Scantling runs a very fast 4.37. Outstanding for a guy his size.

 

[Poppa San]

Yeah now that you mention it, we haven’t exactly been successful lately packaging multiple picks to move up the board outside of Clay Mathews 26th overall. It’s no mistake that the later the pick the less the success.

Spriggs 2nd (48th overall)
Burks 3rd
Hundley 5th

You missed Alexander in the 1st. Packers moved up from NO #27 pick IIRC.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm not sure that is a realistic expectation. They are all rookies and some were touting ESB as day 2 pick. I know he isn't ahead of MVS either but my point is there are a lot of things that go into draft position. With day three picks I don't really have any expectations of one player over another simply because his name was called earlier in the day. I certainly wouldn't be considering calling him a bust based on half a season.

I don't know if he's going to be a bust or not. What I do know is to this point, he's contributed bey little, and hasn't been anywhere as near as good as the two layers drafted behind him.....I think it's fair to ask, Why not?