Value of that 4th round HaHa pick

[sschind]

I don't know if he's going to be a bust or not. What I do know is to this point, he's contributed bey little, and hasn't been anywhere as near as good as the two layers drafted behind him.....I think it's fair to ask, Why not?

It certainly is fair to ask why not and the answer simply may be he was not as talented to begin with than the others and maybe the draft order on them should have been different. I'm not saying it is wrong to be disappointed. After all we all have high hopes for all Packers draft picks. I just think expectations may have been a little high and maybe a little skewed based on draft order. If we switched Moore's numbers with St. Brown or Valdes-Scantling would you be equally disappointed in either of them? We drafted WRs in rounds 4 5 6 and we all want them to succeed but realistically if one of them turns out to be a solid contributor, one is an average spot player and one is a failure I think that is about the best we can hope for. If that happens it won't really matter to me which one is which and I won't be particularly disappointed in any of them because I wasn't really expecting more from any of them in particular.

 

[PikeBadger]

It certainly is fair to ask why not and the answer simply may be he was not as talented to begin with than the others and maybe the draft order on them should have been different. I'm not saying it is wrong to be disappointed. After all we all have high hopes for all Packers draft picks. I just think expectations may have been a little high and maybe a little skewed based on draft order. If we switched Moore's numbers with St. Brown or Valdes-Scantling would you be equally disappointed in either of them? We drafted WRs in rounds 4 5 6 and we all want them to succeed but realistically if one of them turns out to be a solid contributor, one is an average spot player and one is a failure I think that is about the best we can hope for. If that happens it won't really matter to me which one is which and I won't be particularly disappointed in any of them because I wasn't really expecting more from any of them in particular.

Well stated. Rookies take a wide variance of career paths with many ups and down. Lots of things to adapt and adjust to both on and off the field. Some people and some organizations demand instant gratification.

 

[Half Empty]

Janus

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Same type of decision they had to make about Montgomery, Randall and Josh Sitton. All that said, there are obviously more factors that weigh into the final decision of getting rid of a players like these, but negative attitudes I am sure are not just completely overlooked. Again, we only hear and see some of it, guessing the coaches and other players know when enough is enough.

Sitton was a cancer? Any articles on that?

 

[longtimefan]

Sitton was a cancer? Any articles on that?

It was rumored he was bashing coaches?? behind closed doors and they were done with it.

 

[longtimefan]

Sitton was a cancer? Any articles on that?

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...several-layers-to-packers-cutting-josh-sitton

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't know if he's going to be a bust or not. What I do know is to this point, he's contributed bey little, and hasn't been anywhere as near as good as the two layers drafted behind him.....I think it's fair to ask, Why not?

It takes some rookies more time to adjust to the NFL. While there's no guarantee Moore will ever produce decent numbers it's way too early to consider him a bust.

 

[sschind]

It takes some rookies more time to adjust to the NFL. While there's no guarantee Moore will ever produce decent numbers it's way too early to consider him a bust.

To be fair I don't think Calhoun called him a bust and I hope I didn't insinuate that he did. I did hear something to the effect of "starting to get to the point where he might be considered a bust" but I think it is even too soon for that.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

It takes some rookies more time to adjust to the NFL. While there's no guarantee Moore will ever produce decent numbers it's way too early to consider him a bust.

Which is why I posted I don't know if he's a bust or not.

 

[thequick12]

Hopefully Williams will be able to suppress such mistakes going forward as otherwise the Packers will definitely miss Clinton-Dix.

So, so far so good the Packers defense seems to be better minus Clinton Dix. Granted it's only been two games and the dolphins offense is terrible. But I see no drop off from Williams to Dix. And his departure coupled with Whitehead and with brice being injured has allowed younger more promising players to see the field and get some experience. Josh Jones is playing well flying around making tackles and Raven Greene has certainly been taking advantage of his opportunity. I saw him have a pass defense in the red zone, a sack at a key moment, and of course the fake punt. It may not just be Dix it may have been Whitehead and brice too but it seems the defense is in a better spot now. Also noticed it looked like guys were having fun out there, quick to congratulate each other etc. I guess that's ussually the case when you're doing well but hopefully it continues

 

[Mondio]

I'm not convinced of anything yet. I will say, i have no issue with Dix being gone. Zero, but we were playing the Dolphins. They had 168 yards total last week. They don't exactly stress a defense to see if there is a weakness and they were missing more than a couple guys on that side of the ball.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So, so far so good the Packers defense seems to be better minus Clinton Dix. Granted it's only been two games and the dolphins offense is terrible. But I see no drop off from Williams to Dix. And his departure coupled with Whitehead and with brice being injured has allowed younger more promising players to see the field and get some experience. Josh Jones is playing well flying around making tackles and Raven Greene has certainly been taking advantage of his opportunity. I saw him have a pass defense in the red zone, a sack at a key moment, and of course the fake punt. It may not just be Dix it may have been Whitehead and brice too but it seems the defense is in a better spot now. Also noticed it looked like guys were having fun out there, quick to congratulate each other etc. I guess that's ussually the case when you're doing well but hopefully it continues

The Packers definitely didn't miss Clinton-Dix vs. the Dolphins yesterday but as Mondio correctly pointed out they don't possess a talented offense. There's no denying Williams made a huge mistake on Gordon's touchdown last week in New England.

It might be smart to revisit the topic after a few more games.

 

[thequick12]

The Packers definitely didn't miss Clinton-Dix vs. the Dolphins yesterday but as Mondio correctly pointed out they don't possess a talented offense. There's no denying Williams made a huge mistake on Gordon's touchdown last week in New England.

It might be smart to revisit the topic after a few more games.

I agree I believe I called the dolphins offense terrible and I agree Williams had a bad play on the Gordon td but it's a play we've seen Dix make more than once. So in the end it's still wait and see but I'm optimistic about the new defense. Seattle on the road will be a good test Russell Wilson is a QB that can beat you brock is not

 

[El Guapo]

Actually, I disagree with most of you. You're not going to learn more about the impact later this season. The key question was what kind of drop-off would we see with HHCD's departure. The answer appears to be virtually none. Playing as they did against one of the top QBs of all time made the statement. They continued it this week by not giving up a TD. What I learn later this season will tell me more about injuries and how these guys continue to develop or regress. It won't affect the conclusion that this defense was just fine trading away HHCD. The fact that we secured a 4th round pick on top of it seals the deal.

 

[thequick12]

Actually, I disagree with most of you. You're not going to learn more about the impact later this season. The key question was what kind of drop-off would we see with HHCD's departure. The answer appears to be virtually none. Playing as they did against one of the top QBs of all time made the statement. They continued it this week by not giving up a TD. What I learn later this season will tell me more about injuries and how these guys continue to develop or regress. It won't affect the conclusion that this defense was just fine trading away HHCD. The fact that we secured a 4th round pick on top of it seals the deal.

Well actually injuries are included in the impact of trading Dix question. Because he provided added depth at the position. Hopefully no one gets injured and they continue to play well. But I totally agree that the trade was a good move

 

[El Guapo]

Good point about depth, but the release of Whitehead affects the situation as well.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Actually, I disagree with most of you. You're not going to learn more about the impact later this season. The key question was what kind of drop-off would we see with HHCD's departure. The answer appears to be virtually none. Playing as they did against one of the top QBs of all time made the statement.

You truly believe that Williams completely misplaying the touchdown pass to Gordon didn't have any impact on the way the game ended at Foxboro???

 

[Poppa San]

You truly believe that Williams completely misplaying the touchdown pass to Gordon didn't have any impact on the way the game ended at Foxboro???

Looked to me to be the exact same way that HaHa would have played it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Looked to me to be the exact same way that HaHa would have played it.

That's solely a speculation on your part.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

FWIW, J'Mon Moore, last Sunday:

WR J’Mon Moore

Moore is lost in the shuffle amidst the rest of Green Bay’s receivers. Valdes-Scantling and St. Brown are both better options at this point, and rightfully so. He played on five snaps against the Dolphins and it was clear he wasn’t a part of the Packers’ game plan.

On one play in the first half, Moore didn’t run the right route and got an earful from Aaron Rodgers.

Moore was active on Sunday for just the fifth time all season, but that isn’t saying much considering both Cobb and Allison were out with injuries. Expect him to continue a minimal role, especially since he doesn’t provide much value on special teams.


https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/11/12/packers-rookie-stock-report-week-10-vs-dolphins/


Again, I'm not calling him a bust, yet.

The early returns, however, are not favorable.

 

[thequick12]

That's solely a speculation on your part.

Not really though because we've all seen Haha play that the same way, more than once have we not

Good point about depth, but the release of Whitehead affects the situation as well.

True and in my original post I included him. Speculating that maybe it's not just the departure of haha but also Whitehead and the injury to brice that has led to the defensive improvement. Essentially we've seen a complete overhaul of the safety group mid season. It was brice, dix, and Whitehead. Now it's williams, jones, and Greene and I like the 2nd group much better already and they have far more upside

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Again, I'm not calling him a bust, yet.

The early returns, however, are not favorable.

Hmmm, for someone not trying to call Moore a bust you're trying pretty hard to dig up negative stuff about him.

Not really though because we've all seen Haha play that the same way, more than once have we not

I understand that a lot of fans are down on Clinton-Dix because a perceived lack of effort, diagnosing plays too late and missing too many tackles but he rarely made a mistake like Williams did against the Patriots.

Actually when being the primary defender covering opposing receivers he has allowed a rating of only 52.9 into his coverage since entering the league in 2014.

 

[thequick12]

Hmmm, for someone not trying to call Moore a bust you're trying pretty hard to dig up negative stuff about him.



I understand that a lot of fans are down on Clinton-Dix because a perceived lack of effort, diagnosing plays too late and missing too many tackles but he rarely made a mistake like Williams did against the Patriots.

Actually when being the primary defender covering opposing receivers he has allowed a rating of only 52.9 into his coverage since entering the league in 2014.

I havent been able to watch many games this season but just off the top of my head I think Dix had one in Detroit that was very similar where I think Kenny gollyday was the receiver. And that's with Dix playing safety his whole career. As has been mentioned Williams has previously played very few snaps at safety. Presumably Williams will get more used to the angles with more experience

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I havent been able to watch many games this season but just off the top of my head I think Dix had one in Detroit that was very similar where I think Kenny gollyday was the receiver. And that's with Dix playing safety his whole career.

Once again, I understand fans criticizing Clinton-Dix for missing too many tackles but he actually excelled in coverage. Take a look at the play once again, it was Josh Jackson covering Golloday.

https://www.detroitlions.com/video/...n-dix-to-turf-on-insane-60-yard-catch-and-run

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Hmmm, for someone not trying to call Moore a bust you're trying pretty hard to dig up negative stuff about him.

The facts are what they are.

He may end up becoming a great player, but, as of now, there's no indication of that.

Feel free to 'dig up' all the positive contributions he has made as a Packer thus far.