This is our ceiling!

[XPack]

This is it. Perennial playoff team that rarely goes the distance. Not being a entitled fan here, but just a realistic one. I'm still happy at where we are now (looking at you Bears), but it's time we awaken to reality.

- MLF has hit his his max capability and change needs to start with him. Maybe let the OC help with play calling, while he can look at some meta stuff like clock management, training against penalties etc. We have been mostly stagnant with just passing glimpses of brilliance making things more glitzy that they actually are. How can one be so strategic and blind at the same time!

- Gute's (and Ted's) team building is good to keep us here. We may need to rely on individual brilliance to take us further. But that's it. We are successful, but rarely dominate (looking at you, Lions). Overachievers, but never stars.

I really can't fault anyone as they have done their best. And here we are!

 

[tynimiller]

I really think MLF bringing in new ST and perhaps some kind of hybrid assistance that allows him to focus on being the glorified OC or hire an OC and be a HC on game days.

 

[gopkrs]

I think it shows mostly that if we want to get to the top; we need better quality linemen on both sides of the ball. Especially O line. Be willing to pay the price with high draft pics.

 

[Dieseljunkie12]

I think it shows mostly that if we want to get to the top; we need better quality linemen on both sides of the ball. Especially O line. Be willing to pay the price with high draft pics.

I'm too lazy and frankly don't care enough but I said this about a week ago that more attention should be to made to shore up offensive line. Again not caring currently but my argument was pay the big boys that make a difference.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I think it shows mostly that if we want to get to the top; we need better quality linemen on both sides of the ball. Especially O line. Be willing to pay the price with high draft pics.

Hmmm.... like Jordan Morgan, Lukas van Ness, Devonte Wyatt, Josh Myers.... ?

Sorry, you make a good point and I don't mean to be a smart ***... just saying that the problem is not where Gute is drafting his linemen; it's the linemen he's drafting in the first and second rounds.

There seems to be a serious problem with evenuating talent in the very early rounds.

 

[AKCheese]

There are 4 teams that move on further than us in the NFC… out of 16. We’re young, we have our QB - exactly how good he is remains to be seen but I like our situation. RB I believe we’re in good shape possibly EXCELLENT shape… ditto tight end. Imo we have a WR corps with POSSIBLE potential but I think we need another piece. Offensive line needs work. Our D is plenty good enough IF we get healthy at corner. Wether thats JA coming back healthy plus a couple pieces or a whole new rack remains to be seen. My understanding is we have a decent cap situation and we have all our draft picks. We are in a position to contend next year and into the future. People can stomp their feet and hold their breath and declare they deserve better all they want but I pay that about as much heed as when I see that behavior at the grocery store. Say whatever you want, but its a good time to be a Packer fan.

 

[milani]

There are 4 teams that move on further than us in the NFC… out of 16. We’re young, we have our QB - exactly how good he is remains to be seen but I like our situation. RB I believe we’re in good shape possibly EXCELLENT shape… ditto tight end. Imo we have a WR corps with POSSIBLE potential but I think we need another piece. Offensive line needs work. Our D is plenty good enough IF we get healthy at corner. Wether thats JA coming back healthy plus a couple pieces or a whole new rack remains to be seen. My understanding is we have a decent cap situation and we have all our draft picks. We are in a position to contend next year and into the future. People can stomp their feet and hold their breath and declare they deserve better all they want but I pay that about as much heed as when I see that behavior at the grocery store. Say whatever you want, but its a good time to be a Packer fan.

I honestly feel we are still too young to go deep in the postseason. Team needs to mature and grow up. Maybe we need to look at a few veterans to stabilize the team and bring leadership. Once upon a time the Packers had some.

 

[tynimiller]

Hmmm.... like Jordan Morgan, Lukas van Ness, Devonte Wyatt, Josh Myers.... ?

Sorry, you make a good point and I don't mean to be a smart ***... just saying that the problem is not where Gute is drafting his linemen; it's the linemen he's drafting in the first and second rounds.

There seems to be a serious problem with evenuating talent in the very early rounds.

I don't see it as definitively - only reason is because for instance Morgan and Wyatt were both picked essentially right where nearly everyone felt they were going to be. Myers a touch earlier than concensus but everyone saw a starting center prospect. LVN no one knew for sure but I never read or heard a single person think he was not a Top50 pick, and most were first round sometime type.

Truthfully of those listed LVN is struggling the most to get his footing, and his third year is not just massively important for the Packers but for him...right now he's teetering on that level of being serviceable in the NFL to becoming one of countless others out there that are pure depth pieces that teams feel they can find elsewhere cheap.

Morgan didn't even see a full year due to injury and was more a pick of the future anyways as GB does it.

We shall see....

 

[gopkrs]

Myers a touch earlier than concensus but everyone saw a starting center prospect.

Wasn't like a more highly rated and now just about an all star center picked right after?
What gives with that? And center and guard. We need both. Early. We can't pay Jenkins again. imho

 

[tynimiller]

Wasn't like a more highly rated and now just about an all star center picked right after?
What gives with that? And center and guard. We need both. Early. We can't pay Jenkins again. imho

The player picked after doesn't change any of what I stated. For nearly EVERY player picked, there is a player you can point elsewhere. Fact was Myers was seen as a solid likely starting center. I personally have never been a fan of picking a center before Day3 so I wouldn't have likely picked either, nor did my rankings indicate I would either that year.

Who said pay Jenkins again? He's on the books for two more seasons, and likely is a restructure possibility as well eventually now that he is on the other side of 30...and if he is the center that restructure is cheaper than when we thought he could be the LT or LG of the future.

 

[Firethorn1001]

There seems to be a serious problem with evenuating talent in the very early rounds.

Too much dedication to RAS.

 

[gopkrs]

The player picked after doesn't change any of what I stated. For nearly EVERY player picked, there is a player you can point elsewhere. Fact was Myers was seen as a solid likely starting center.

just saying, the fact was the other guy was rated higher and is playing at a much higher level. Not a good pick especially when the guy we picked is very average. Yeah, probably they could have waited to get a similar center to what we have. But not the kind of center I would like. Like the guy we should have picked. Maybe time to change our scouts on both sides of the line. They don't seem to know what they are doing.

 

[MC45XavierHS]

I agree it's the lack of quality players in the first. We actually get good talent in second and hit/miss in third. For some reason the goal in the first round is to look for players who can be quality starters in a couple years rather than impact players. Jordan Morgan over G. Barton/C. Dejean. Van Ness over LaPorta. I was excited when GB got hosting the draft, so I get a chance to attend. Then the realization of "Do I really want to be there to watch them pick another project in the First Rd"' The Packers drafted Gary and Van Ness in the top 15 of there drafts, to be rotational.

 

[tynimiller]

just saying, the fact was the other guy was rated higher and is playing at a much higher level. Not a good pick especially when the guy we picked is very average. Yeah, probably they could have waited to get a similar center to what we have. But not the kind of center I would like. Like the guy we should have picked. Maybe time to change our scouts on both sides of the line. They don't seem to know what they are doing.

I see this so often where folks claim this, but never provide the source. In your ranking? In Mel Kipers? Mayocks? Draft Network? Internal GB Scouting Department?

Just curious more than anything, there were some rankings that had LVN a top 15 guy...projecting prospects is a TOUGH TOUGH thing.

I wouldn't be so fast to change scouts...those same guys also can claim the likes of Tom found, Rasheed Walker found and I believe a few of them can claim Jenkins and Bakh even yet.

Nail down where and how they're going wrong of late perhaps is reasonable, is it shift in player style we need to implement the defense...is it traits or tendencies they need to weigh differently...what is it exactly if anything that can be identified beyond luck of the draw and prospect process of unknowns till they hit the field at the NFL level.

 

[gopkrs]

I see this so often where folks claim this, but never provide the source. In your ranking? In Mel Kipers? Mayocks? Draft Network? Internal GB Scouting Department?

Just curious more than anything, there were some rankings that had LVN a top 15 guy...projecting prospects is a TOUGH TOUGH thing.

I wouldn't be so fast to change scouts...those same guys also can claim the likes of Tom found, Rasheed Walker found and I believe a few of them can claim Jenkins and Bakh even yet.

Nail down where and how they're going wrong of late perhaps is reasonable, is it shift in player style we need to implement the defense...is it traits or tendencies they need to weigh differently...what is it exactly if anything that can be identified beyond luck of the draw and prospect process of unknowns till they hit the field at the NFL level.

I don't think scouts should be using Mel Kiper or anyone as guru. But we have not picked well in the first round. Many more bad/mediocre pics than good ones. I think maybe they overcomplicate things like you seem to do.

 

[Magooch]

Whatever our methodology is for evaluating first-round talent is, it doesn't seem to end up providing us with a product that's commensurate with the capital invested.

I've said it before but my general sense is that we place FAR too much weighting on "prospects," "potential," or "value." If had to choose between drafting a "B+" player who is ready to contribute at that level today vs a "C" player who MIGHT one day develop into an "A" player, we'll almost always take the latter.

Hypothetically speaking...we're picking 23/24th. Let's assume we have identified CB as our biggest need. Say our pick rolls around. There's a CB available at pick 24, but we've got him graded as our 28th-best prospect overall. But there's also a LB available and on our "big board" we've graded him as the 20th-best prospect in the draft. CB is arguably a way bigger need but it would not at all be surprising to go "BPA" here and take the player who is a better value rather than the one who addresses a more immediate need. Now there are some situations where BPA is certainly a legitimate approach but I think at times we are a bit too rigid in our adherence to it and IMO sometimes being fairly firmly entrenched in BPA can end up being a good way to ensure you remain good and competitive but not push you over the top. Different strokes though I guess.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't think scouts should be using Mel Kiper or anyone as guru. But we have not picked well in the first round. Many more bad/mediocre pics than good ones. I think maybe they overcomplicate things like you seem to do.

You still didn't state by what metric was he rated higher?

 

[El Guapo]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with a lot that was written by the OP and others. Sure we got bounced out of the playoffs this season, but don't go with gut reactions:

1. This is a young team with a lot of hope for the future. Many of our players are just hitting their sophomore slump years. Take a breath and R-E-L-A-X

2. Our offensive line sucks? Get REAL!! They blocked well for Josh Jacobs and gave up only 22 sacks - second best in the NFL. The Bears were worst giving up 68 sacks at a rate of a sack every 8.3 passing attempts. In terms of Packers history, they were 6th best all-time in terms of sacks per passing attempt (21.8 passing attempts per sack) and 7th best overall.

3. Our defense played well enough to win most of the season, including in the playoffs against the Eagles. While not perfect and certainly leaving room for improvement, Gutekunst can remake the CB room and find upgrades along the DL. We've got impact rookies at multiple positions with Evan Williams and Edgerrin Cooper and Bullard seems promising.

4. Jordan Love has only played for two seasons. We haven't seen his ceiling yet. How did Brett Favre look at the end of 1993? It wasn't until 1994 that he became an elite player. Rodgers didn't have a great 2010 until the second half and playoffs. In case anybody needs to be reminded, those were two 1st ballot Hall of Famers. Love doesn't have to equal those two HOFers to be a good QB.

This team has holes, needs leadership, and potentially some better coaching but it is NOT peaked or at it's ceiling. Pointing out that this is the youngest team in the NFL is not a cliche, it's a fact that helps explain some of the limitations that we all see.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with a lot that was written by the OP and others. Sure we got bounced out of the playoffs this season, but don't go with gut reactions:

1. This is a young team with a lot of hope for the future. Many of our players are just hitting their sophomore slump years. Take a breath and R-E-L-A-X

2. Our offensive line sucks? Get REAL!! They blocked well for Josh Jacobs and gave up only 22 sacks - second best in the NFL. The Bears were worst giving up 68 sacks at a rate of a sack every 8.3 passing attempts. In terms of Packers history, they were 6th best all-time in terms of sacks per passing attempt (21.8 passing attempts per sack) and 7th best overall.

3. Our defense played well enough to win most of the season, including in the playoffs against the Eagles. While not perfect and certainly leaving room for improvement, Gutekunst can remake the CB room and find upgrades along the DL. We've got impact rookies at multiple positions with Evan Williams and Edgerrin Cooper and Bullard seems promising.

4. Jordan Love has only played for two seasons. We haven't seen his ceiling yet. How did Brett Favre look at the end of 1993? It wasn't until 1994 that he became an elite player. Rodgers didn't have a great 2010 until the second half and playoffs. In case anybody needs to be reminded, those were two 1st ballot Hall of Famers. Love doesn't have to equal those two HOFers to be a good QB.

This team has holes, needs leadership, and potentially some better coaching but it is NOT peaked or at it's ceiling. Pointing out that this is the youngest team in the NFL is not a cliche, it's a fact that helps explain some of the limitations that we all see.

You #2 cannot be said enough! Yup we can improve but to pretend they weren't one of the better ones in the league is laughable IMO.

 

[milani]

Wasn't like a more highly rated and now just about an all star center picked right after?
What gives with that? And center and guard. We need both. Early. We can't pay Jenkins again. imho

LVN looks like he might fit better in Pittsburgh like Preston Smith. The problem is that the Steelers do not need edge rushers. They need offense. Maybe we can work a trade with them.

 

[gopkrs]

LVN looks like he might fit better in Pittsburgh like Preston Smith. The problem is that the Steelers do not need edge rushers. They need offense. Maybe we can work a trade with them.

Problem is LVN has not showed much for us to get much of anything. We have just not done well with 1st round picks. The buck stops with Gute. But I'm sure he depends heavily on his scouts. And LVN was like the 10th or 12th pick or something. We should be able to do better than that.

 

[Firethorn1001]

People talk about needing leaders, based on comments sure sounds like Jacobs, X and Kraft are going to try to step up to fill that. Unfortunately we needed Gary, Alexander, Clark and Love to do that. Wasn't seeing it from those 4 and going to need more from that $100M in cap space. Although I think Jaire is gone.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I guess the Vikings ceiling has been hit. 14-3. Can raise that 'We beat the Packers 2 times and got a 5 seed' banner.

 

[McKnowledge]

Too much dedication to RAS.

RAS doesn't measure intelligence, determination or desire.

No more projects.

Draft players that have played a minimum 30 games and have produce both on film and on the field.

More veterans for next season. Team needs balance, less youth.

 

[DigRun]

RAS doesn't measure intelligence, determination or desire.

No more projects.

Draft players that have played a minimum 30 games and have produce both on film and on the field.

More veterans for next season. Team needs balance, less youth.