This is a big difference maker for the defense.

[Deleted member 6794]

Vikings went from 31st in 2013 to 11 in 2014. No reason the Bears can't do it. It might be tougher if they are changing to a 3-4, but you never know.

I agree that´s it possible and it has happened several times over the last 10 seasons that a team that ranked in the bottom three of the league in points allowed finished in the top half the next season. To expect such a turnaround within one season is foolish though.

 

[Half Empty]

You seem to assume that Barrington has topped out and that he will always be at the level of his final 2014 game. I have no reason to believe he won't be a better player this year than he was last year. I expect steady improvement in his play over the next 3-4 seasons.

It's possible Barrington will steadily improve over the next few seasons but there's no guaarantee. It didn't work out that way with Jennings and McMillian at safety either.

So, do we figure now that Barrington will either get better - or he won't? Glad that's settled.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So, do we figure now that Barrington will either get better - or he won't? Glad that's settled.

Welcome to the NFL off-season! Where tough questions are asked and perhaps, kinda sorta answered...some of the time anyway.

 

[TJV]

Both Barrington - and Matthews - have an opportunity to get better at ILB because of the experience they gained the last half of last season. Not only individually at ILB, but working together when they’re lined up together inside. That of course isn’t a certainty. A lot of players don’t improve significantly with experience. But I think the distinction between Barrington and Jennings/McMillian is the level of talent for their positions. IMO it's much more certain Matthews will improve inside because of his talent level. And no matter what, I hope Barrington is pushed by those behind him on the depth chart. Here’s a link to a jsonline story focusing on Matthews at ILB. It notes the reduction of about 43% in rushing yards surrendered after Matthews started to play inside. No doubt there were other factors involved and they were surrendering a ridiculous 150+ yards per game in the first half of the season, but that improvement for over a full season should be meaningful if the other parts of the D hold up.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...nebacker-positions-b99508985z1-305416741.html

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Both Barrington - and Matthews - have an opportunity to get better at ILB because of the experience they gained the last half of last season. Not only individually at ILB, but working together when they’re lined up together inside. That of course isn’t a certainty. A lot of players don’t improve significantly with experience. But I think the distinction between Barrington and Jennings/McMillian is the level of talent for their positions. IMO it's much more certain Matthews will improve inside because of his talent level. And no matter what, I hope Barrington is pushed by those behind him on the depth chart. Here’s a link to a jsonline story focusing on Matthews at ILB. It notes the reduction of about 43% in rushing yards surrendered after Matthews started to play inside. No doubt there were other factors involved and they were surrendering a ridiculous 150+ yards per game in the first half of the season, but that improvement for over a full season should be meaningful if the other parts of the D hold up.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...nebacker-positions-b99508985z1-305416741.html

There´s no doubt the run defense improved once Matthews moved inside after the bye week. I´m surprised though that none of the writers covering the Packers has come up with one of the reasons the unit played better being that the team faced five teams ranked 24th or worse in rushing attack during the second half of the season.

I expect Matthews to be way more comfortable inside after spending the offseason working at the position and there´s hope Barrington will take another step as well.

 

[wist43]

The reasons I gave were?

I didn't expect you to be able to give other bad calls or how the play calling changed late.

I listed mistakes the players made. Capers must have told them to mess up...

Your premise is a strawman - just as I said.

If the players didn't make the plays, it could as often as not be b/c Capers didn't have them in the right defense. If they were in the right defense, and then still didn't make the play, then that's on the players.

Who were the ILB's on Lynch's run?? Even if it's off-tackle, the ILB on that side should be able to pursue and close from the inside - no?? So that would be a case in which a deficient player wasn't able to make a play.

Hawk making his tackles 6-8 yds downfield isn't a problem for you?? Capers rushing 3 and covering no one in 3rd and long isn't a problem for you??

You're trying to prop up a strawman. We have plenty enough evidence over the past 4 years to fire Capers; and TT is not without blame b/c of his lackadaisical approach to filling needs.

And those criticisms are before you ever get into how TT and the Packers evaluate DB's, i.e. tackling is optional.

 

[Carl]

Your premise is a strawman - just as I said.

If the players didn't make the plays, it could as often as not be b/c Capers didn't have them in the right defense. If they were in the right defense, and then still didn't make the play, then that's on the players.

Who were the ILB's on Lynch's run?? Even if it's off-tackle, the ILB on that side should be able to pursue and close from the inside - no?? So that would be a case in which a deficient player wasn't able to make a play.

Hawk making his tackles 6-8 yds downfield isn't a problem for you?? Capers rushing 3 and covering no one in 3rd and long isn't a problem for you??

You're trying to prop up a strawman. We have plenty enough evidence over the past 4 years to fire Capers; and TT is not without blame b/c of his lackadaisical approach to filling needs.

And those criticisms are before you ever get into how TT and the Packers evaluate DB's, i.e. tackling is optional.

The premise that players messed up more than Capers vs. Seattle is not a strawman at all. Unless you forget what we were just arguing about. You said Capers was all at fault and I've given plenty of examples to back it up. I'm not sure you know what a strawman is.

I know the players messed up on Lycnh's run. That's obvious watching the play.

I also just acknowledged the 3rd and long play wasn't the best call. Covering no one, however, was certainly not the call.

I've also never mentioned Hawk, firing Capers, nor TT's evaluation of DBS.

You're best argument against Capers vs. Seattle is that they might not have been in the correct defense and one play call out of many was bad. That's not very strong going up against specific player errors. Tramon one and one vs. an average at best receiver outside is a good matchup for us. Same with Hayward one on one in the slot, but neither did their jobs on the big OT plays.

Since you don't know what the best defenses are and cannot point out more than one bad play call, it's hard to see how you point it all on Capers other than due to your previous bias.

 

[wist43]

The premise that players messed up more than Capers vs. Seattle is not a strawman at all. Unless you forget what we were just arguing about. You said Capers was all at fault and I've given plenty of examples to back it up. I'm not sure you know what a strawman is.

I know the players messed up on Lycnh's run. That's obvious watching the play.

I also just acknowledged the 3rd and long play wasn't the best call. Covering no one, however, was certainly not the call.

I've also never mentioned Hawk, firing Capers, nor TT's evaluation of DBS.

You're best argument against Capers vs. Seattle is that they might not have been in the correct defense and one play call out of many was bad. That's not very strong going up against specific player errors. Tramon one and one vs. an average at best receiver outside is a good matchup for us. Same with Hayward one on one in the slot, but neither did their jobs on the big OT plays.

Since you don't know what the best defenses are and cannot point out more than one bad play call, it's hard to see how you point it all on Capers other than due to your previous bias.

You're trying to send me on a snipe hunt - which I'm not going to do. I'm simply not going to go back thru game tape to prove something to someone who is just playing games.

If you think Capers is beyond criticism, and the players are all pro bowlers... then more power to ya

Bottom line is - Hawk and Jones were both deficient players for at least 3 years running; the safety mess was exactly that, a mess, for how long?? And TT did nothing with it.

Beyond that, Capers has posted some of the worst defensive performances in league history; be it on a season long basis (2011); or individual game basis. If you can't see that, I'd suggest you take off your Green and Gold colored glasses - maybe that will clear things up for you??

 

[TJV]

Of course no one working for the Packers is above criticism, but the poster above has displayed a blind hatred for Capers from his very first post here.

 

[wist43]

You guys are trying to get me to do homework and produce a 10 page report on why 2+2=4.

If this stuff isn't obvious to you, I would suggest you take up soccer as the sport you cheer for... less complicated, fewer moving parts, fewer players.

 

[TJV]

...

I for one am not trying to get you to do anything. I am just reminding those who may not know or remember what your obvious blind bias is. As to the rest of your post see: "Unjustified condescension": IOW you can stick your suggestion.

 

[Carl]

You're trying to send me on a snipe hunt - which I'm not going to do. I'm simply not going to go back thru game tape to prove something to someone who is just playing games.

If you think Capers is beyond criticism, and the players are all pro bowlers... then more power to ya

Bottom line is - Hawk and Jones were both deficient players for at least 3 years running; the safety mess was exactly that, a mess, for how long?? And TT did nothing with it.

Beyond that, Capers has posted some of the worst defensive performances in league history; be it on a season long basis (2011); or individual game basis. If you can't see that, I'd suggest you take off your Green and Gold colored glasses - maybe that will clear things up for you??

Not going to back and watch the game to look for bad calls....

Which means you don't even know of other bad calls to bring up. If you don't know of any, how can you say it was all on Capers?

I understand Capers criticism, but again were just discussing one game and regarding that game you simply cannot back up your opinion is was his fault.

Your clear bias against Capers and an inability to back up your opinion makes it pointless to continue this discussion. I should have learned the last time I tried to discuss Capers with you.

 

[wist43]

Not going to back and watch the game to look for bad calls....

Which means you don't even know of other bad calls to bring up. If you don't know of any, how can you say it was all on Capers?

I understand Capers criticism, but again were just discussing one game and regarding that game you simply cannot back up your opinion is was his fault.

Your clear bias against Capers and an inability to back up your opinion makes it pointless to continue this discussion. I should have learned the last time I tried to discuss Capers with you.

Alright Carl... just to make you happy, I went and looked at the drive from the 3:52 mark.

Capers came out and ran a 2-3 dime all the way down the field, including lining up in a 2-4 inside the 10 (which is, of course, stupid).

On the first play he completely abandoned the middle of the field against 4 WR's - very predictable Capers. Of course Seattle just ran it up the middle for 14 yds. (ABANDONING THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD IS FUNDAMENTALLY UNSOUND!!! DUH!!!)

On the next play, same personnel, no jams on the WR's, easy catch, Hayward misses a tackle, and another 25 yds.

You want evidence of how Capers goes idiot at key moments?? Just watch the last 4 minutes of that game... his nature is to play soft - as soft as he possibly can; and in crunch time he will revert to his nature. Been watching that idiot do this stuff since the 80's.

To tell you the truth, I shut the game off when Lynch caught that long pass down the sideline, with Barrington woefully in coverage - 5 yds behind him... is that TT's fault for drafting, and Capers fault for starting a 4.91, 40 yd dash guy in a passing subpackage, and expecting him to cover a probowl RB??

And if Barrington is our best ILB, and he was made to look like a slug on that play - a play which, yes, greatly contributed to our defeat, then what does that say about substandard personnel??

As I've said, Capers is a great x's and o's guy, and is entirely capable of calling a great game - but he can never, ever be trusted. His nature is to play soft, and to play pass over run almost every down. We have had a woeful run defense for years b/c of this.

Exhibit A: the last 4 minutes of the Seattle game.
Exhibit B: Kaepernick
Exhibit C: 2011 season (NFL record for pass defense futility)
Exhibit D: 2009 Cardinal playoff game - 51 pts allowed

etc, etc, etc... the evidence is mountainous, and you want me to cite a few plays from one game?? Easy enough I suppose, but why should I even have to bother?? Can't you see this stuff yourself??

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Alright Carl... just to make you happy, I went and looked at the drive from the 3:52 mark.

Capers came out and ran a 2-3 dime all the way down the field, including lining up in a 2-4 inside the 10 (which is, of course, stupid).

On the first play he completely abandoned the middle of the field against 4 WR's - very predictable Capers. Of course Seattle just ran it up the middle for 14 yds. (ABANDONING THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD IS FUNDAMENTALLY UNSOUND!!! DUH!!!)

On the next play, same personnel, no jams on the WR's, easy catch, Hayward misses a tackle, and another 25 yds.

To tell you the truth, I shut the game off when Lynch caught that long pass down the sideline, with Barrington woefully in coverage - 5 yds behind him... is that TT's fault for drafting, and Capers fault for starting a 4.91, 40 yd dash guy in a passing subpackage, and expecting him to cover a probowl RB??

And if Barrington is our best ILB, and he was made to look like a slug on that play - a play which, yes, greatly contributed to our defeat, then what does that say about substandard personnel??

On the first play of the drive you mentioned Capers had Mike Neal lined up on the left side opposite Lynch with the only job he had to do on that play defendig the read option. Neal hesitated to take on Lynch though so he was able to run untouched for 10 yards and got a first down because Barrington and Perry weren´t able to get him down.

On the next Capers had the defense lined up in a Cover-2 scheme with all four receivers being covered by a cornerback. Hayward wasn´t close enough to Baldwin though to prevent the completion and in additon tried to dive for his ankles to tackle him resulting in another seven yards.

Somehow you forgot to mention that the defense worked perfectly on the next play with Tramon providing good coverage on a deep ball to Kearse.

Barrington was able to defend the exact same play that resulted in Lynch´s 26-yard reception on the next play earlier in the game. But this he decided to try defend the pick play by going over the top instead of underneath which resulted in Lynch being wide open.

Overall, I think it´s pretty ridiculous to take out a single drive which resulted in a TD because the players didn´t do their job to try to make Capers look bad after the defense was able to shut out the defending Super Bowl champions for more than 56 minutes. They did it with the exact same formations and play calls because the players executed it perfectly which they didn´t do in the last few minutes of the game anymore.

 

[wist43]

On the first play of the drive you mentioned Capers had Mike Neal lined up on the left side opposite Lynch with the only job he had to do on that play defendig the read option. Neal hesitated to take on Lynch though so he was able to run untouched for 10 yards and got a first down because Barrington and Perry weren´t able to get him down.

On the next Capers had the defense lined up in a Cover-2 scheme with all four receivers being covered by a cornerback. Hayward wasn´t close enough to Baldwin though to prevent the completion and in additon tried to dive for his ankles to tackle him resulting in another seven yards.

Somehow you forgot to mention that the defense worked perfectly on the next play with Tramon providing good coverage on a deep ball to Kearse.

Barrington was able to defend the exact same play that resulted in Lynch´s 26-yard reception on the next play earlier in the game. But this he decided to try defend the pick play by going over the top instead of underneath which resulted in Lynch being wide open.

Overall, I think it´s pretty ridiculous to take out a single drive which resulted in a TD because the players didn´t do their job to try to make Capers look bad after the defense was able to shut out the defending Super Bowl champions for more than 56 minutes. They did it with the exact same formations and play calls because the players executed it perfectly which they didn´t do in the last few minutes of the game anymore.

BS

It is what Carl was asking for.

Beyond that, I said nothing about Neal - I pointed out that Capers abandoned the middle of the field, i.e. there was no one head up on the G, C, G - and that is the hole Lynch ran straight thru.

Overall, get your story straight.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Beyond that, I said nothing about Neal - I pointed out that Capers abandoned the middle of the field, i.e. there was no one head up on the G, C, G - and that is the hole Lynch ran straight thru.

It was Neal's assignment to prevent Lynch from running through the middle. If he does his job he tackles Lynch behind the LOS. The play call was fine but poorly executed.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

It's pretty obvious Thompson didn't have any of the inside linebackers ranked as a first round draft pick as all of them would have been available at the time the Packers picked at #30.

The question is if he was right about it though.

That's a great point. The easy way to answer is by comparing the play of Hendricks v Ryan. We get to see that up close at least twice this year.

 

[wist43]

It was Neal's assignment to prevent Lynch from running through the middle. If he does his job he tackles Lynch behind the LOS. The play call was fine but poorly executed.

Nobody had the middle of the field, lol... If you don't have any DL G-G, guess what?? you're going to get blasted up the middle.

 

[wist43]

It was Neal's assignment to prevent Lynch from running through the middle. If he does his job he tackles Lynch behind the LOS. The play call was fine but poorly executed.

You do realize that Neal's first responsibility on that play is to contain, do you not??

That little flinch he gave to Wilson, to ensure that he didn't have the ball?? That is all that is needed for Lynch to walk behind a wall of blockers right up the middle for 14 yds.

As I said, abandoning the middle of the field is fundamentally unsound - Capers seems not to have gotten the memo

 

[OldSchool101]

The number is a bit exaggerated as the Packers have won close to 80% of their regular season games over the last four seasons. While it's mostly true that a defense ranked in the middle of the pack is good enough to win in the regulsr season it gets way tougher in the playoffs.

I thought it was ironic that I said last year mid-season that we needed a top 11 Defense (Literally I said top 1/3rd) in order to turn the tide into the playoffs, even with our top rated Offense. My theory was normally more like top 8 D by playoffs but we were already well into the season, so moving that number down that far from being ranked #20-something becomes unlikely.
I'm sorry if I hurt someone's feelings, but the loss of A.J. and Brad don't concern me at all.. Although I will miss Hawk's service and respect his knowledge I think his play was waning with up and down battles of consistency. As for Brad? I'll leave that alone to be nice! I'm actually excited to see who wins this battle inside. We also found out last year that our best talent was on the field when CM3 moved inside.
The main concern for me is buttoning up the loss of Williams at Corner. We have talented personnel to achieve this so my guess is that it will be a minor setback, at most, by early regular season with a potential to be the same or even slightly better than last year as the playoffs come into sight.
A reasonable expectation for this years D is top 10. I'm not saying I don't think we can achieve better either.. but I'd be very content ranked like top#8 going into the playoffs. Especially if our ST play comes alive like it should