This is a big difference maker for the defense.

[TJV]

A lot of Packers fans don´t like to hear it but this statement is unfortunately true.

So you agree with the statement "TT is notorious for ignoring needs"? Or is he famous for something else?

We both would like him to selectively use UFA more, but that statement and your agreement with it are ridiculous IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

and he's still considered one of the best in the business. Who's signing your checks? I"m betting nobody football related. Ignored the safety position? He picked one of the best to probably ever play the position out of a school you probably never even heard of. As unfortunate circumstances would have it, he had a freak injury on pretty innocuous play. But yeah, he ignored it. He picked a few others, and they didn't work out. That happens. They looked promising, there was a time when people were wondering who would be better, turns out they both fizzled.

There´s absolutely no denying that Thompson didn´t address the safety position adequately after Collins career ending injury for more than two years before finally drafting Clinton-Dix. The ILB position has been a mess for a couple of
seasons but yet the only guy he brought in this offseason is a fourth round pick.

It seems a lot of Packers fans completely ignore the fact that there are other ways than the draft to bring in talent. I would really like Thompson to use free agency selectively to upgrade positions of need and because of it improving the team´s chances to win a Super Bowl.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So you agree with the statement "TT is notorious for ignoring needs"? Or is he famous for something else?

We both would like him to selectively use UFA more, but that statement and your agreement with it are ridiculous IMO.

Well, Thompson is notorious for ignoring free agency to address position of needs. I really like his approach to the draft to select the players who present the best value to the team but with the draft being mostly unpredictable he really should use FA to improve the team selectively.

I probably shouldn´t have agreed with the entire statement by wist though.

 

[Mondio]

There´s absolutely no denying that Thompson didn´t address the safety position adequately after Collins career ending injury for more than two years before finally drafting Clinton-Dix. The ILB position has been a mess for a couple of
seasons but yet the only guy he brought in this offseason is a fourth round pick.

It seems a lot of Packers fans completely ignore the fact that there are other ways than the draft to bring in talent. I would really like Thompson to use free agency selectively to upgrade positions of need and because of it improving the team´s chances to win a Super Bowl.

Except he had 2 on the roster he, and others thought would continue to develop and instead they both tanked it after showing promise. and again, who are we trading in on a chance to pick more safeties?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Except he had 2 on the roster he, and others thought would continue to develop and instead they both tanked it after showing promise. and again, who are we trading in on a chance to pick more safeties?

While some Packers fans have forgotten about it there is free agency to address obvious position of needs.

 

[Mondio]

While some Packers fans have forgotten about it there is free agency to address obvious position of needs.

except he had 2 on the roster, both showing promise that was seen by fans and coaches alike along with a 3rd year drafted safety that looked like he was starting to come into his own. Who should he have signed? Landry? Jarius Byrd right? NOTHING could have gone wrong there LOL

Maybe Charles Woodson? Oh wait.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

except he had 2 on the roster, both showing promise that was seen by fans and coaches alike along with a 3rd year drafted safety that looked like he was starting to come into his own. Who should he have signed? Landry? Jarius Byrd right? NOTHING could have gone wrong there LOL

Maybe Charles Woodson? Oh wait.

The Packers entered 2012 with Morgan Burnett, a fourth round pick in Jerron McMillian, an undrafted free agent with a total of 10 career snaps in M.D. Jennings at safety and moved Charles Woodson to the position. We all know how that worked out over the next two seasons.

Mostly I would like Thompson to sign some second- or third-tier free agents to selectively improve the team but I have to admit that I would have been excited to get Byrd during last offseason (the only big time free agent I wanted the Packers to go after in several years). He has a phenomenal free safety and four games doesn´t change my opinion about him and injuries can happen to every single player.

I see a lot of similarities at the ILB position to the situation at safety in 2012 right now and I don´t like it.

 

[Mondio]

exactly, we know NOW, how that worked out. But at the time, Burnett was on the rise, McMillian and Jennings were fighting for snaps and BOTH looked promising early on. We now know they both really fizzled and took Burnett down with them for a while too. Woodson was playing hybird like he had done before. and injuries can happen to anyone. But we signed Byrd, who did we lose because of it? Because there would have been repercussions to our future roster, in addition to his season ending injury.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

exactly, we know NOW, how that worked out. But at the time, Burnett was on the rise, McMillian and Jennings were fighting for snaps and BOTH looked promising early on. We now know they both really fizzled and took Burnett down with them for a while too. Woodson was playing hybird like he had done before. and injuries can happen to anyone. But we signed Byrd, who did we lose because of it? Because there would have been repercussions to our future roster, in addition to his season ending injury.

I agree that we didn´t know the safety position would be huge problem before the 2012 season but it was an entirely different situation entering the 2013 offseason. At that time it was pretty obvious that McMillian couldn´t even cover a parked car and that the doctor wasn´t much better either, yet Thompson decided not to upgrade the position.

Signing Byrd would have resulted in the Packers not being able to bring in Peppers. Thompson did address the safety position by drafting Clinton-Dix and it worked out pretty well for the Packers. I wonder though how the situation would have worked out if HHCD would have been off the board by the time it was our turn.

While it´s possible it will work out differently at ILB I´m concerned about the position entering this season.

 

[wist43]

Well, Thompson is notorious for ignoring free agency to address position of needs. I really like his approach to the draft to select the players who present the best value to the team but with the draft being mostly unpredictable he really should use FA to improve the team selectively.

I probably shouldn´t have agreed with the entire statement by wist though.

I generally like TT's approach to the draft too... I'm not dissing that.

BUT, and it's a big BUT... if you have holes on your roster, and the only avenue you have to filling those holes and building your roster is the draft - then you better, by-God, draft to fill the position. TT doesn't do that.

TT is willing to flounder around at a position and hope he hits on a street FA or someone develops from the practice squad... but while he's doing that, the years are ticking by on Aaron Rodgers career - eventually "there's always next year" will ring pretty hollow when Rodgers is nearing the end, and TT is still playing whack-a-mole with the draft.

 

[PikeBadger]

I agree that we didn´t know the safety position would be huge problem before the 2012 season but it was an entirely different situation entering the 2013 offseason. At that time it was pretty obvious that McMillian couldn´t even cover a parked car and that the doctor wasn´t much better either, yet Thompson decided not to upgrade the position.

Signing Byrd would have resulted in the Packers not being able to bring in Peppers. Thompson did address the safety position by drafting Clinton-Dix and it worked out pretty well for the Packers. I wonder though how the situation would have worked out if HHCD would have been off the board by the time it was our turn.

While it´s possible it will work out differently at ILB I´m concerned about the position entering this season.

I understand your concern but there is still plenty of time to find a discarded LB if mgmt & staff feel its necessary. I sense that some people assume that since the safety situation didn't work out well for us, that the same will hold true for the LB situation now. Reality is that we don't really know what is going on behind the scenes in young player development. We also don't know how mgmt felt about the available ILB free agents and draft prospects. I feel that the noticeable progress of Barrington last year is a better barometer of the future than anything else I'm seeing or hearing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I understand your concern but there is still plenty of time to find a discarded LB if mgmt & staff feel its necessary. I sense that some people assume that since the safety situation didn't work out well for us, that the same will hold true for the LB situation now. Reality is that we don't really know what is going on behind the scenes in young player development. We also don't know how mgmt felt about the available ILB free agents and draft prospects. I feel that the noticeable progress of Barrington last year is a better barometer of the future than anything else I'm seeing or hearing.

It´s possible that the ILB position will work out fine for the Packers in 2015 but I would feel way more comfortable about it if Thompson had addressed it with a first-round pick and a free agent instead of only spending a fourth-rounder on it. In addition to some other posters I´m not excited about Barrington as a starter but just OK with it.

BTW I really don´t think teams will cut any inside linebackers after training camp capable of stepping in immediately and providing help for the Packers defense.

 

[TJV]

I see a lot of similarities at the ILB position to the situation at safety in 2012 right now and I don´t like it.

If you forget that the plan is to use Matthews at ILB for a significant number of snaps, I can see the similarities. You/we may or may not like the fact that Matthews won’t be exclusively at OLB, but his presence at ILB makes it a significantly different situation than safety going into 2013 IMO. And I get that you’d like an upgrade to Barrington, but you wouldn’t equate his play with that of Jennings or McMillian at safety, would you?

Of course the expectation was the Packers would address ILB in the first or second round and there were a lot of posts about which ILB should have been the pick in either the first or second. But it looks like the Packers didn’t have the top ILBs with first round grades, or they put a higher grade on Randall even after factoring in the need at ILB. And what if they were telling the truth about having Ryan rated higher than where they picked him? Of course they could be wrong about the top ILBs, Randall, and Ryan but it makes sense for them to trust their evaluation process, doesn’t it? And I think there are players with a significant chance to push Barrington, beginning (but not ending) with Ryan and Bradford (if OTAs are an indication). It is not unrealistic to expect both Barrington and Matthews to improve at ILB after their experience there for about the last half a season.

I too would have preferred brining in a second-tier UFA at ILB, particularly after losing Hawk, Jones, and Lattimore. But not even Thompson’s harshest critics would advocate signing one just to sign one, would they? Some (not captainWIMM) post here as if Thompson is fine with having positions of weakness. As if all he has to do is follow their advice and the team would be above average at every position. What they are mostly missing IMO is the big picture: Building an NFL roster is a zero-sum game. What some posters advocate for – the Packers reaching in the draft for need from their (the Packers’) point of view to fill a need IMO would be a disaster.

Of course Thompson makes mistakes and isn’t above legitimate criticism. (Again I, like many of you, would like him to use UFA more.) But IMO too many Packers fans take for granted rooting for a team that shortly after Wolf arrived has been among the top tier teams in the league. Of course we want more titles, but what Wolf and Thompson have accomplished shouldn’t be taken for granted.

 

[Carl]

I generally like TT's approach to the draft too... I'm not dissing that.

BUT, and it's a big BUT... if you have holes on your roster, and the only avenue you have to filling those holes and building your roster is the draft - then you better, by-God, draft to fill the position. TT doesn't do that.

TT is willing to flounder around at a position and hope he hits on a street FA or someone develops from the practice squad... but while he's doing that, the years are ticking by on Aaron Rodgers career - eventually "there's always next year" will ring pretty hollow when Rodgers is nearing the end, and TT is still playing whack-a-mole with the draft.

Can you correlate specific weak positions to losing a game though?

For example, in 2011 we beat the Giants in NY and were 15-1. Starting the season 13-0, we were the best team in the league. We were clearly good enough to beat the Giants again, but the offense played terribly, including 4 turnovers.

The next season, the defense was solid at 11th overall in the regular season before Kap ran all over us, mostly due to the OLBs bitting on fakes. Matthews was obviously good at the time and Walden wasn't great, but not a big weak point.

In 2013, the defense played well despite being decimated my injuries - no Clay, Shields, Hayward, D. Jones playing at OLB. The offense, however, did not perform well like in 2011. The offense was clearly talented at the time too.

Last season, the whole team played terribly for the last 4 minutes and OT.

Can you point to any specific examples how addressing a weak position would have changed outcomes? A lot more goes into a loss than just a weak position or two. Every single team in the league has some weaknesses also.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you forget that the plan is to use Matthews at ILB for a significant number of snaps, I can see the similarities. You/we may or may not like the fact that Matthews won’t be exclusively at OLB, but his presence at ILB makes it a significantly different situation than safety going into 2013 IMO. And I get that you’d like an upgrade to Barrington, but you wouldn’t equate his play with that of Jennings or McMillian at safety, would you?

No, in no way do I compare Barrington´s performance last year to Jennings or McMillian. I think Barrington is an OK starter but I wouldn´t mind an upgrade over him. You´re right about the fact that continuing to play Matthews inside results in a different situation than at safety in 2013.

I too would have preferred brining in a second-tier UFA at ILB, particularly after losing Hawk, Jones, and Lattimore. But not even Thompson’s harshest critics would advocate signing one just to sign one, would they? Some (not captainWIMM) post here as if Thompson is fine with having positions of weakness. As if all he has to do is follow their advice and the team would be above average at every position. What they are mostly missing IMO is the big picture: Building an NFL roster is a zero-sum game. What some posters advocate for – the Packers reaching in the draft for need from their (the Packers’) point of view to fill a need IMO would be a disaster.

I get that the free agent market was very thin at ILB this offseason and Thompson shouldn´t sign one just for the sake of using UFA. He could have upgraded the position during the 2013 offseason though as they were some better players available.

But IMO too many Packers fans take for granted rooting for a team that shortly after Wolf arrived has been among the top tier teams in the league. Of course we want more titles, but what Wolf and Thompson have accomplished shouldn’t be taken for granted.

Absolutely agree with this statement. I don´t take it for granted that the Packers are able to compete for a Super Bowl every single season but I would love Thompson to selectively use free agency to further improve our chances to win another title.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

A lot of Packers fans don´t like to hear it but some parts of this statement are unfortunately true.



I think we will see it up close twice a year that Kendricks would have been worth of spending a first round pick on him.

Could be although I think TT had Anthony rated higher. I think Kendricks was the best of the bunch. I hope you're wrong, with all respect!

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

I'm kind of surprised that Thompson didn't address ILB and outside corner in a way most of us would feel comfortable with. Entering training camp those positions will still be huge question marks which is disappointing as they were the only ones entering this offseason.

Seems clear TT didn't see an ILB worthy of a first round pick. As someone said, we'll find out when we play against him twice.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Seems clear TT didn't see an ILB worthy of a first round pick. As someone said, we'll find out when we play against him twice.

It's pretty obvious Thompson didn't have any of the inside linebackers ranked as a first round draft pick as all of them would have been available at the time the Packers picked at #30.

The question is if he was right about it though.

 

[Pack-12]

I agree that we didn´t know the safety position would be huge problem before the 2012 season but it was an entirely different situation entering the 2013 offseason. At that time it was pretty obvious that McMillian couldn´t even cover a parked car and that the doctor wasn´t much better either, yet Thompson decided not to upgrade the position.

Signing Byrd would have resulted in the Packers not being able to bring in Peppers. Thompson did address the safety position by drafting Clinton-Dix and it worked out pretty well for the Packers. I wonder though how the situation would have worked out if HHCD would have been off the board by the time it was our turn.

While it´s possible it will work out differently at ILB I´m concerned about the position entering this season.

I don't know about that. McMillian looked pretty good in 2012, it wasn't bad to expect him to pick up where he left off his rookie year if not improve. He had ups and downs but actually showed a lot of promise his first year especially for a small school guy playing quite a few snaps. I don't blame them for expecting him to develop into a starter.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't know about that. McMillian looked pretty good in 2012, it wasn't bad to expect him to pick up where he left off his rookie year if not improve. He had ups and downs but actually showed a lot of promise his first year especially for a small school guy playing quite a few snaps. I don't blame them for expecting him to develop into a starter.

I didn't see anything out of McMillian in 2012 that would have convinced me he was capable of turning into a solid starting caliber safety at any point during his career.

 

[Pack-12]

I didn't see anything out of McMillian in 2012 that would have convinced me he was capable of turning into a solid starting caliber safety at any point during his career.

That's fine but he was out there quite a few snaps and he wasn't getting toasted in coverage or missing a bunch of tackles. It certainly was far from "obvious he couldn't cover a parked car". He wasn't out there being a difference maker or anything but he played a lot better than you'd expect from a small school 4th rounder in his rookie season. That's the kind of guy you usually expect to improve in his 2nd year.

 

[rodell330]

If it doesn't work I don't want to hear ppl bashing Capers ...it's Teds fault for not drafting a mlb. I'd for one would like to see Matthews outside full time again but hey. TT shocked all of us with the first round pick so hopefully he ends up being a stud.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's fine but he was out there quite a few snaps and he wasn't getting toasted in coverage or missing a bunch of tackles. It certainly was far from "obvious he couldn't cover a parked car". He wasn't out there being a difference maker or anything but he played a lot better than you'd expect from a small school 4th rounder in his rookie season. That's the kind of guy you usually expect to improve in his 2nd year.

McMillian didn't rank in the top 65 safeties in run stop percentage, tackling efficiency or coverage that season. I was surprised to see that Jennings had a pretty good year in 2012 though, maybe the front office thought he would turn into a decent starter. We all know that didn't work out either.

 

[wist43]

Can you correlate specific weak positions to losing a game though?

Your question and overall premise is a strawman.

That said, while I am always focused on improving the roster I place most of the blame for our problems over the past 4 years on Dom Capers . TT shares a lot of blame for the defensive problems too, especially with that 2011 draft that yielded only Devon House, and he really never contributed much, mostly due to injury, but still the defense was in obvious need of infusion, and TT completely blew it.

I tend to give most of the players a pass b/c of Capers penchant for shooting himself in the foot, and his tendency to go soft at critical moments. I don't trust Capers, and never have. I was quite familiar with his career and tendencies when we hired him, and warned everyone from the start that he's a great x's and o's guy, but he can't be trusted.

His playing 2-4 as his base thru most 2011-2013 got us run over - it was demoralizing to watch.

Capers is our biggest problem - with a better DC I think we would have won the SB last year for sure, and probably won at least one other between 2011-2013.

 

[TJV]

I don't trust Capers, and never have. I ... warned everyone from the start that he's a great x's and o's guy, but he can't be trusted.

The conclusion to the 2010 season must have been a real downer for you. Were you reminding everyone of your warning during the title run?