The Free Agency Thread

[Jerellh528]

Thinking any team is going to be invincible no matter who is on their roster is nothing but fantasy. Our offenses have been and most likely will be plenty good to win a championship. We have not lacked multiple passing targets in a decade. I don't see the passing game being a problem this year either. Probably not as strong as it's been depth wise, but talented at the top with some guys that could step into bigger roles.

Yeah definitely need to add a talented wr or 2 though. Adams goes down and we’re SOL.

 

[thisisnate]

we're not shooting for elite here yet, we're shooting for not-dumpster-tier

 

[Sunshinepacker]

We've had the best QB in NFL history for how long now an we have won how many Super Bowls with him.

Did Barry Sanders win a SB? No. Adrian Peterson? Megatron? Julio Jones? Larry Fitzgerald? No they did not. Does that mean teams don't need stud WRs or RBs to win a SB? Absolutely not. What it means is that it is a team acomplishment and even the best players need help. Who knows. Maybe if we had a stud WR to go with the best QB of all time he would have more than one ring. We haven't won a hell of a lot without a stud WR so yeah, maybe we do need one. It sure as heck couldn't hurt.

But let's keep burying our head in the sand and pretending that Aaron Rodgers and a better defense is all we need to be invincible. We don't need better WRs and RBs because we have Aaron freaking Rodgers

I'm glad you finally agreed. Those other guys you mentioned aren't really relevant to the discussion since none of them are QBs. The point is that a great QB makes the receivers better. The Packers would be better with an elite WR, sure. But they'd be a LOT better with an elite pass rusher or coverage guy. Really what we're talking about is where the elite talent on the roster would help the most.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

so they wouldn't be better with a stud wide receiver? lol

if graham just takes jordy's place it's a wash. there's no improvement. this team needs to improve on BOTH sides of the ball. to say they don't need to get better on O is nonsense.

Odd logical leap, I never said they wouldn't be better, just that they didn't need an elite WR. Sure, spend a high draft pick on an elite WR. Then watch as the offense improves slightly. Let's keep things in perspective. In 2016 the Packers were the fourth highest scoring team in the NFL. A great WR might push that to 1 or 2. Great, an incremental improvement, unless you think the Packers can draft a WR that turns them into the highest scoring team of all time. A great player at pass rusher or coverage, however, could lead to a LARGE improvement in the defense. That's all I'm saying. The team can potentially get a slight improvement on offense or the team can potentially get a large improvement on defense.

 

[sschind]

so they wouldn't be better with a stud wide receiver? lol

if graham just takes jordy's place it's a wash. there's no improvement. this team needs to improve on BOTH sides of the ball. to say they don't need to get better on O is nonsense.

That was my point. Thanks GBgary. Improvement at any position makes the team better. We all know the shortcomings that an elite QB can hide, so what other shortcomings could an elite WR or RB paired with that elite QB help to hide. I'm not saying that these are positions of greatest need and that we don't need a better defense but if the opportunity presents itself, be it in the draft or FA or whatever, to add an elite WR why are so many fans against it. Just because we have Aaron Rodgers on offense doesn't mean the offense can't be better. It may be good enough but wouldn't it be better if it was better than good enough. An elite WR or RB could help make it so.

If Allison is 5 or 6....who is 3 and 4 (not including TE Jimmy Graham)?

I realize the final roster is by no means complete, but right now, on the depth chart at WR, Allison is #3 and if the rest of the names don't give you any reason to be concerned about the position, than you have a lot more confidence in the group than I do.

LWR 17 Adams, Davante 14/2 10 Yancey, DeAngelo 17/5 80 Tonyan Jr., Robert SF17 13 Pearson, Colby CF17
RWR 18 Cobb, Randall 11/2 81 Allison, Geronimo CF16 11 Davis, Trevor 16/5 89 Clark, Michael CF17 16 Kumerow, Jake SF17

That's some scary stuff right there. Allison at number 3 gives me reason to be concerned never mind the rest of the names. There are two names on that list that I have confidence in. Add Graham into the mix as one of our top three pass catchers and it gets a little better but according to some our WRs are good enough just because we have Aaron Rodgers.

There's an X, a Y, and a Z.

Adams can play all three reasonable well. Cobb is a Y. There's no such thing as a 1,2,3 or 4 WR. Those are options.

We do need to upgrade Geronimo, but it's not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it.

Tomato Tomahto, xyz, 123 all I know is if we have Geronimo Allison as our #2 option or our Z WR or he lines up opposite Adams or is in any way shape or form on the field for the majority of the snaps we are in trouble. I love Adams and Cobb and I don't hate Allison but IMO, as a group, these WRs instill the least amount of confidence I have had in the position in a LONG LONG time.

 

[sschind]

Odd logical leap, I never said they wouldn't be better, just that they didn't need an elite WR. Sure, spend a high draft pick on an elite WR. Then watch as the offense improves slightly. Let's keep things in perspective. In 2016 the Packers were the fourth highest scoring team in the NFL. A great WR might push that to 1 or 2. Great, an incremental improvement, unless you think the Packers can draft a WR that turns them into the highest scoring team of all time. A great player at pass rusher or coverage, however, could lead to a LARGE improvement in the defense. That's all I'm saying. The team can potentially get a slight improvement on offense or the team can potentially get a large improvement on defense.

I do get what you are saying and I don't entirely disagree. Our greatest need is on defense I would never argue otherwise. I know nothing about Sutton and to be honest I really hope we can land a difference maker on defense at #14. On the other hand, so many fans are acting as if Aaron Rodgers is all we need on offense. All I am saying is an elite WR or RB would make our offense better and a better offense is a better team. The reason I keep saying RB as well is because they get the same treatment as WRs in that for some fans they are insignificant as long as you have an elite QB. I don't know if Sutton would be a reach at 14 or not. Some people seem to think so others don't. I'm fairly certain that whoever we take some fans are going to think there was someone better. What I would like to see is an impact player on defense and if Sutton (or an equivalent) drops to the low 20's trade up to get him. First round picks with that 5th year option are very attractive although if WR salaries keep going up I don't know if that 5th year option is really going to be much of a bargain in 5 years.

The only reason I made my post to begin with is because you said that with the greatest QB we can make do with decent to good WRs and I simply pointed out that that hasn't been the case so far. I know our defense hasn't helped the situation but its also clear that our WRs have not either if SB rings is your criteria. Our WRs have the same number of rings with Aaron Rodgers as our defense does.

 

[Half Empty]

Odd logical leap, I never said they wouldn't be better, just that they didn't need an elite WR. Sure, spend a high draft pick on an elite WR. Then watch as the offense improves slightly. Let's keep things in perspective. In 2016 the Packers were the fourth highest scoring team in the NFL. A great WR might push that to 1 or 2. Great, an incremental improvement, unless you think the Packers can draft a WR that turns them into the highest scoring team of all time. A great player at pass rusher or coverage, however, could lead to a LARGE improvement in the defense. That's all I'm saying. The team can potentially get a slight improvement on offense or the team can potentially get a large improvement on defense.

Part of the reason I hate folks who hate Grammar Nazis. Exactly what I was going to say if you hadn't.

 

[GleefulGary]

To be very blunt, having Allison line up outside would not be that different than having Jordy line up outside last year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

To be very blunt, having Allison line up outside would not be that different than having Jordy line up outside last year.

In the fact that they are both human males?

 

[GleefulGary]

In the fact that they are both human males?

No.

Jordy was only decent in the Y position last year. X or Z, meh. Not good. Allison isn't a downgrade from Jordy.

Don't get me wrong. I want an upgrade for sure, but it's not as big of a deal as many are making it to be.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No.

Jordy was only decent in the Y position last year. X or Z, meh. Not good. Allison isn't a downgrade from Jordy.

Don't get me wrong. I want an upgrade for sure, but it's not as big of a deal as many are making it to be.

Definitely not a big deal to those who thinks Jordy's stats after #12 went down are the only ones that count.

I get it, Jordy was overpaid and underperformed woefully once Rodgers was injured, but if those are the only stats people are looking at and were expecting those to be the same or get worse, I think you are looking at way too small of a sample size.

Yes, we moved on from Jordy, but I don't see anyone not named Adams or Cobb on the current roster that has done anything close to what Jordy has done on the field as a Packer WR.

 

[GleefulGary]

Definitely not a big deal to those who thinks Jordy's stats after #12 went down are the only ones that count.

I get it, Jordy was overpaid and underperformed woefully once Rodgers was injured, but if those are the only stats people are looking at and were expecting those to be the same or get worse, I think you are looking at way too small of a sample size.

Yes, we moved on from Jordy, but I don't see anyone not named Adams or Cobb on the current roster that has done anything close to what Jordy has done on the field as a Packer WR.

You know I'm not crazy about stats. I'm about tape.

No, we don't have anybody who has done anything close to what Jordy did, that's obvious. I'm talking about last years Jordy, where he only operated well with Rodgers out of the slot, couldn't run after the catch, and couldn't get deep. His declining hands, lack of ability to run, and dropping after every catch had nothing to do with Rodgers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To be very blunt, having Allison line up outside would not be that different than having Jordy line up outside last year.

There's no denying Nelson performance declined lining up on the outside since he returned from the torn ACL he suffered in 2015. The Packers shouldn't rely on Allison developing into a decent starter though.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

There's no denying Nelson performance declined lining up on the outside since he returned from the torn ACL he suffered in 2015. The Packers shouldn't rely on Allison developing into a decent starter though.

This. There is still time before the season, but I'd really like to see them being more aggressive about addressing both the future and present at WR. Adams is good, but not good enough to make up for a lack of starter talent and speed elsewhere at the position. And I believe that Cobb's fair market value will always exceed his ability to produce. We need to move on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You know I'm not crazy about stats. I'm about tape.

No, we don't have anybody who has done anything close to what Jordy did, that's obvious. I'm talking about last years Jordy, where he only operated well with Rodgers out of the slot, couldn't run after the catch, and couldn't get deep. His declining hands, lack of ability to run, and dropping after every catch had nothing to do with Rodgers.

All of us could go back and forth on this and really it's just a matter of opinion as to what Jordy could have or would have done for the Packers in 2018. IMO, right now, the Packers would be a better team with Jordy. I also don't expect Jordy to be a 1000+ yard receiver as a Raider, but by the end of the 2018 season, we will have more answers as to what the loss of Jordy to the Packers did or didn't mean.

 

[Mondio]

I"ll just reiterate myself. Jordy would have been good with the packers this year, I don't have much doubt in that. I bet he would have been in the 60-80 catch range, 800-1200 yards and 10 TD's giveor take a couple. He would have gotten that largely because of the relationship he has with his QB. IMO, he would have "earned" his salary with those numbers being a long time vet, while at the same time, those numbers wouldn't have come from some top of the league skill set that makes defensive coordinators freak out. Once you take out the relationship with the QB, you lose a lot of the value and right now with this team, we need guys that are going to elevate those around them a bit more. Jordy wasn't dog crap like his numbers looked, but he also was dropping more and things by the years end he should not have been regardless of the QB. I would have been fine keeping him on, and I'm more than comfortable with the decision to move on from him too. He had value with this QB. I think he'll have a decent year in Oakland, but nothing outstanding. Might have a lot of catches, but YPC will be down by 2-4 yards I bet over what he would have had here.

 

[gbgary]

Odd logical leap, I never said they wouldn't be better, just that they didn't need an elite WR. Sure, spend a high draft pick on an elite WR. Then watch as the offense improves slightly. Let's keep things in perspective. In 2016 the Packers were the fourth highest scoring team in the NFL. A great WR might push that to 1 or 2. Great, an incremental improvement, unless you think the Packers can draft a WR that turns them into the highest scoring team of all time. A great player at pass rusher or coverage, however, could lead to a LARGE improvement in the defense. That's all I'm saying. The team can potentially get a slight improvement on offense or the team can potentially get a large improvement on defense.

you said cobb, graham, and adams were "plenty"...i'm saying they're not. and i didn't say an elite wr...i said stud. geronimo is no stud. through trade, or FA, or the draft, they need #2 wr that's at least as good as jordy was...and i'm not talking 2017 jordy. i also didn't say O at the expense of D. as of now the D still sucks and the O has an open wound at #2 wr.

 

[Mondio]

I think we have plenty at the top for pass catchers. Depth is a concern, but we should not struggle to pass the ball. I think Either Jones or WIlliams will be more than capable out of the backfield and that's something we haven't really utilized since 2014 Lacy. I think our offense has always been better when we ****, ****, ****, BAM instead of looking for 15yd+ pass plays all the time. I believe we will see more of that by design and by personnel on the field. It's more efficient. "should" increase TOP some, and should protect our QB and not leave him vulnerable to all those hits. I don't think we're going to have a void for passing targets this year at all unless we go thru what we did in 2015 where the top 3 guys are hurt all year in some way or the other. i'm also fairly confident we're taking at least 1-2 more WR's one probably in the 2nd

 

[brandon2348]

We need to shoot for a "potentially elite WR" and land on a "stud" worse case scenario. That should be the goal. Jordy would of been serviceable in Packer offense because Rodgers has an elite ability to throw guys open but he wasnt worth the $ and it was time to move on.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I think we have plenty at the top for pass catchers. Depth is a concern, but we should not struggle to pass the ball. I think Either Jones or WIlliams will be more than capable out of the backfield and that's something we haven't really utilized since 2014 Lacy. I think our offense has always been better when we ****, ****, ****, BAM instead of looking for 15yd+ pass plays all the time. I believe we will see more of that by design and by personnel on the field. It's more efficient. "should" increase TOP some, and should protect our QB and not leave him vulnerable to all those hits. I don't think we're going to have a void for passing targets this year at all unless we go thru what we did in 2015 where the top 3 guys are hurt all year in some way or the other. i'm also fairly confident we're taking at least 1-2 more WR's one probably in the 2nd

Considering that we had a WR as a RB for much of the past 2 years and never really designed plays to take advantage of his mismatch ability doesn't really instil confidence that RBs will ever have a meaningful role is the passing game. McCarthy prefers to design plays which put our own players at a disadvantage.

 

[Passepartout]

Yeah as really think that maybe in the getting a W.R. that now that Jordy Nelson is no more. Could be well in the third round about. Or second for that matter. Aaron needs someone to throw too.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I do get what you are saying and I don't entirely disagree. Our greatest need is on defense I would never argue otherwise. I know nothing about Sutton and to be honest I really hope we can land a difference maker on defense at #14. On the other hand, so many fans are acting as if Aaron Rodgers is all we need on offense. All I am saying is an elite WR or RB would make our offense better and a better offense is a better team. The reason I keep saying RB as well is because they get the same treatment as WRs in that for some fans they are insignificant as long as you have an elite QB. I don't know if Sutton would be a reach at 14 or not. Some people seem to think so others don't. I'm fairly certain that whoever we take some fans are going to think there was someone better. What I would like to see is an impact player on defense and if Sutton (or an equivalent) drops to the low 20's trade up to get him. First round picks with that 5th year option are very attractive although if WR salaries keep going up I don't know if that 5th year option is really going to be much of a bargain in 5 years.

The only reason I made my post to begin with is because you said that with the greatest QB we can make do with decent to good WRs and I simply pointed out that that hasn't been the case so far. I know our defense hasn't helped the situation but its also clear that our WRs have not either if SB rings is your criteria. Our WRs have the same number of rings with Aaron Rodgers as our defense does.

Yet the Packers won their last Super Bowl with Greg Jennings as their #1. A good receiver by all means but not elite (his numbers were elite but that was due to QB play).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

We need to shoot for a "potentially elite WR" and land on a "stud" worse case scenario. That should be the goal. Jordy would of been serviceable in Packer offense because Rodgers has an elite ability to throw guys open but he wasnt worth the $ and it was time to move on.

Not disagreeing, but just want someone, anyone!, to clarify the differences in these terms to me. I don't know what qualifies as elite vs stud vs great vs da' man vs freakish....it's all so confusing.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hate to sound like a pessimist, but even if we draft Sutton or Ridley or whoever is the "best" WR on the board at #14 through #45, I don't expect much from a rookie, nor will I expect a whole lot from them next year either. If you look back at some of the better WR's the Packers have had through the years, it took 2-3 years before we started seeing much production out of them. I also don't think throwing them into the fire with a starting role right away is good either. So unless the Packers trade for or sign a decent FA WR, I'm looking at Adams, Cobb and Graham to carry the load and holding my breath, none of them get hurt.

 

[sschind]

Yet the Packers won their last Super Bowl with Greg Jennings as their #1. A good receiver by all means but not elite (his numbers were elite but that was due to QB play).

In 2010 the Packers WRs were Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson and James Jones. The best group of 4 WRs I can remember. If we had anything close to that talent right now we would be set but we don't. Adams and Cobb are worthy of being included in that group but that is it.