I guess considering the GM of the green Bay Packers made the deal, your statement is incorrect
Ted has a reason to sign free agents today
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El Guapo
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I was one of the few Jones supporters, because when healthy he showed quite a bit to like. However, he seemed to get the injury bug before the contract and then especially after. Probably his biggest problem IMO was never getting a season-ending injury that allowed him to rehab, and instead pushed himself to play through injuries when he just couldn't compete.
Due to lack of depth at ILB, I think that TT felt compelled to reach for a player who showed promise despite injuries and got burned by those injuries. Maybe Jones over-achieved at times when healthy and that his normal play coupled with injuries was nowhere near good enough to be a starter, I don't know. In the end we didn't get our money's worth and that's the only fact.
Due to lack of depth at ILB, I think that TT felt compelled to reach for a player who showed promise despite injuries and got burned by those injuries. Maybe Jones over-achieved at times when healthy and that his normal play coupled with injuries was nowhere near good enough to be a starter, I don't know. In the end we didn't get our money's worth and that's the only fact.
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Looks like at worst we will get a 4th and 5th round compensatory pick in return for Williams and House. Loaded for bear again next year.
Vrill
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ILB depth could also come from one of these undrafted rookies too.
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Lol, you may get some blowback with that comment Vrill. Some here don't buy into that concept that players can be found after the third round of the online mock drafts.
El Guapo
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Well Zombo and Walden played good enough at OLB in 2010 to help us win a Super Bowl. That should be proof enough to anyone, but it should be obvious that it's the exception more than the rule.
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Not sure Zombo and Walden are good examples, as neither lasted with the Pack. In fact, the SB run was such a storybook season for the team as a whole and several more individuals in particular that it and them being the exception has certainly to be the case. Heck, we eventually did win it all, even with Bush actually playing DB 
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HardRightEdge
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It didn't make sense to me, but didn't PFF give him a high grade for the 2012 season leading up to the contract ? Something like the 8th. highest ranked ILB in the league? I guess that deal made sense to somebody.
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HardRightEdge
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Zombo and Walton combined for 7 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. That's pretty good production when you consider the number of quality surrounding players, and the fact those players had their best or one of their best years.Not sure Zombo and Walden are good examples, as neither lasted with the Pack. In fact, the SB run was such a storybook season for the team as a whole and several more individuals in particular that it and them being the exception has certainly to be the case. Heck, we eventually did win it all, even with Bush actually playing DB
Points A, B, & C as to why PFF is very useful for some things but should not be considered the bible. Could not have been more wrong
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HardRightEdge
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I find PFF valuable for counting the things that can be counted. Otherwise, I prefer what I see with my own eyes.
If I know nothing about a player on another team, or simply have not seen him play, I guess a PFF grade is better than nothing.
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May just have missed the original point - thought we were talking about finding good players, and I felt that those guys were average players who, along with several others, all had career years at the same time. Wasn't questioning their contributions during the SB run.
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HardRightEdge
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I see, and I agree with you.
It would appear there was a point being made regarding an undrafted free agent providing depth at ILB, followed by El Guapo mentioning Zombo and Walden.
I would note that Walden was a 6th. round pick of the Cowboys.
So, we can recount the following UDFAs during the Thompson era that started at least one game on their merits and not as injury replacements:
Tramon Williams - 2006
Evan Dietrich-Smith - 2009
Sam Shields - 2010 (He probably would have been drafted had he not been busted for marijuana possession.)
Frank Zombo - 2010
I don't think I missed any. That's 4 out of what...100-150? And only 2 in a decade that one would consider a quality starter.
As for a UDFA grabbing a bottom of the roster spot at one position or another, then...sure, why not? If outside free agents are not going to be signed, somebody has to fill out the roster. And these guys are cheaper than minimum salary vets.
As for ILB, there's Barrington, Matthews part-time, and a bunch of guys who haven't proven anything in the NFL. There are 3 wide open spots on the ILB depth chart...a UDFA sneaking on the roster would hardly be shocker.
The problem comes in when people get all excited about one these guys and expect that naturally Thompson will find a good player out of the UDFA ranks. There simply are not enough examples to support that. The great majority of UDFAs churn in and then out of the roster.
Vrill
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Yeah, but I am firmly entrenched into the Packer way. I like our style a lot better than other teams. I like that we homegrown our talent and draft and develop.
Those looking for significant contributions from a UDFA are likely to be disappointed. Walden wasn't a UDFA, by the way. He was a 6th round pick in 2008 by the Cowboys. We did sign him as a street FA, but that's an entirely different thing than a UDFA.
While I do appreciate our way, these guys generally go undrafted for a reason. Occasionally you'll find a Jared Allen or Sam Shields that turns into a significant player, but these are the needles in the haystack. You'll go through a ton of Vic So'Otos and Dezman Moses' to find them, and even more guys that will never even make a roster.
Everyone loves a good UDFA story. I get that. Still, look at history. Most won't make it past the pre-season. The better ones might make the practice squad. A select few (maybe one or two a year) might crack a 53, give you some limited contributions for a year or two, and just fade away on the fact that they simply have limited ability. Zombo, Moses, and MD Jennings would all fall into this category. These are the guys who just try to hang onto a roster in the NFL as long as they can and hope to do enough on special teams to stick around every year.
Once in awhile, one might be able to stick around for a long time based on his special teams contributions, like Jarrett Bush The very rarest of them all are the Sam Shields of the world who come in and turn into solid career starters. I certainly hope this is the year it happens again, but considering we haven't had a UDFA like him in 5 years, I understand that it's unlikely.
While I do appreciate our way, these guys generally go undrafted for a reason. Occasionally you'll find a Jared Allen or Sam Shields that turns into a significant player, but these are the needles in the haystack. You'll go through a ton of Vic So'Otos and Dezman Moses' to find them, and even more guys that will never even make a roster.
Everyone loves a good UDFA story. I get that. Still, look at history. Most won't make it past the pre-season. The better ones might make the practice squad. A select few (maybe one or two a year) might crack a 53, give you some limited contributions for a year or two, and just fade away on the fact that they simply have limited ability. Zombo, Moses, and MD Jennings would all fall into this category. These are the guys who just try to hang onto a roster in the NFL as long as they can and hope to do enough on special teams to stick around every year.
Once in awhile, one might be able to stick around for a long time based on his special teams contributions, like Jarrett Bush The very rarest of them all are the Sam Shields of the world who come in and turn into solid career starters. I certainly hope this is the year it happens again, but considering we haven't had a UDFA like him in 5 years, I understand that it's unlikely.
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Deleted member 6794
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It´s great getting production out of an UDFA but to rely on it is a terrible idea. As others have point out most of these guys never even make the 53 man roster of an NFL team.
The PFF grading isn´t a great indicator to judge a player´s performance. There are some other stats on their website offering way more inside into it. Brad Jones finished 20th in run stop percentage, 36th in tackling efficiency and 21st in yards allowed per cover snap during the 2012 season. That numbers didn´t warrant the contract Thompson signed him to.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I think I am jumping off the Brandon Spikes band wagon today ......I never really looked at his stats until today. Previously I just read the FA reports and ratings. For the kind of money Spikes is probably asking for his stats are rather underwhelming. I won't fill the box with the stats, but in comparison, AJ Hawks numbers were better.
Leaving my faith in TT and the current roster for answers at ILB
Leaving my faith in TT and the current roster for answers at ILB
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Deleted member 6794
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I haven´t looked at his stats from last season either before you posted about it. It seems like he didn´t have a lot of stops (still way more than any of our ILBs though) but was an efficient tackler in the run game with Barrington being the only Packers linebacker with a better efficiency.
Surprisingly he was really good in coverage but missed a ton of tackles in the passing game. I don´t want him to be on the field on obvious passing downs but he would be an upgrade in run defense.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Agreed on the "upgrade" to the current roster as we view the talent at last years level. One has to conclude, there is talent there now that Ted feels has improved and will provide the numbers that Spikes would.
I was a "Spikes fan" because of our need and because of his size, age and FA ranking. But his numbers aren't that impressive and haven't improved much with experience. TT must feel one of his young guys is now ready to fill that spot and keep getting better, surpassing what they would have gotten out of Spikes for less money.
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HardRightEdge
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Which begs the question, if PFF rated him so poorly in these categories in 2012 (ratings that match most observers' eye tests), and since these categories cover the gamut except perhaps for pass rushing efficiency and passer-rating-against, how could they award him such a high overall grade? 2 sacks and 1 forced fumble wouldn't have made that much of a difference.
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Deleted member 6794
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I really have no idea, Jones ranked 30th in pass rushing efficiency and 32nd in opponent´s passer rating during 2012.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
There have been so many players like Brad Jones in and out of the NFL; young, potential, a hopeful rise to the top. Some do, some don't. It's no different then drafting young talent. Set aside injuries, until a player has enough years under his NFL Belt to really prove himself (on and off the field), you have a limited body of work to look at and hope that the stats and predictions work in your favor. I think the 2nd contract (after rookie contract expires) has to be one of the most difficult ones for a GM. In Jones case, TT saw major potential (maybe on the practice field?) that many of us didn't.
For as many times as TT has failed at predicting talent, you have to look at his successes and by the Packers record during TT's tenure, he seems to be much better then most at it.
For as many times as TT has failed at predicting talent, you have to look at his successes and by the Packers record during TT's tenure, he seems to be much better then most at it.
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HardRightEdge
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After reading that, I thought I might have misremembered the PFF overall rating. I couldn't find the specific reference to their 8th. ranking among ILBs, but I did find the following link where PFF referred to him as a "secret superstar" prior to the 2013 season consistent with that rating.
It is mystifying.
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Deleted member 6794
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You were right about his overall grade by PFF in which he finished 10th out of all ILBs during the 2012 season. I really have no clue though how they came up with it.
D3uc3
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U
Remember when Brad Jones was our ILB, Raji was a lot of the reason he looked good him and Hawk, also Cullen Jenkins alongside Raji.
Remember when Brad Jones was our ILB, Raji was a lot of the reason he looked good him and Hawk, also Cullen Jenkins alongside Raji.
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