Free Agent WRs (and TEs) in 2023 Discussion...

[Pokerbrat2000]

If he can’t do it I’ll be the first one to tie him to the ball of my truck and feather and tar him and take him around the block or take by Sunshine’s house and honk. (j/k)

Works better if you first apply the tar and THEN the feathers!

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[Sunshinepacker]

But He’s been here 2 seasons?? How do you compare 9 seasons to 2?? That doesn’t even make sense
Barry and Capers are currently identical in overall ranking #15.
If you were going to compare you’d have to consider what each inherited. Capers inherited a pretty darn good D unit in 2009, AJ Hawk, Clay Mathews, Charles Woodson, Nick Collins, Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnette, Ryan Pickett? Heck. I could’ve ranked a top 10 without knowing what the hell I’m doing. I’d just hire good assistance and head to Maui Hawaii. I’ll be back to sit in the cozy booth on game day with my fake wig.
I’d like to see a little more consistency from Dom than 2 years success with a largely inherited D. He went got 2 years of that and then spiraled out of control finishing his tenure in GB: 24th,13th,12th,21st,26th

As far as Day1 selections. We lost our best Edge1 last season (Gary) early on and you could feel it pretty good. In 2021 We also lost our Edge1 in Z.Smith and also CB1 J’aire Alexander if I recall? So As far as all this talk about Barry not succeeding with all these Day 1 starters. When has Joe Barry had 8 Day 1 starters playing simultaneously?? (The latest argument)
I’ll answer that for you. Never and thus any such argument is totally inadmissible imo. Barry gets blamed for stuff that hasn’t even happened. Nearly every other team in the league has had comparable HEALTHY talent across the 2021-2022 seasons. Had Joe Barry inherited that 2009 squad I’m totally convinced we’d see similarly effective results.

Well, at least one fan believes in Joe Barry, so that’s a positive, right?

 

[milani]

But He’s been here 2 seasons?? How do you compare 9 seasons to 2?? That doesn’t even make sense
Barry and Capers are currently identical in overall ranking #15.
If you were going to compare you’d have to consider what each inherited. Capers inherited a pretty darn good D unit in 2009, AJ Hawk, Clay Mathews, Charles Woodson, Nick Collins, Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnette, Ryan Pickett? Heck. I could’ve ranked a top 10 without knowing what the hell I’m doing. I’d just hire good assistance and head to Maui Hawaii. I’ll be back to sit in the cozy booth on game day with my fake wig.
I’d like to see a little more consistency from Dom than 2 years success with a largely inherited D. He went got 2 years of that and then spiraled out of control finishing his tenure in GB: 24th,13th,12th,21st,26th

As far as Day1 selections. We lost our best Edge1 last season (Gary) early on and you could feel it pretty good. In 2021 We also lost our Edge1 in Z.Smith and also CB1 J’aire Alexander if I recall? So As far as all this talk about Barry not succeeding with all these Day 1 starters. When has Joe Barry had 8 Day 1 starters playing simultaneously?? (The latest argument)
I’ll answer that for you. Never and thus any such argument is totally inadmissible imo. Barry gets blamed for stuff that hasn’t even happened. Nearly every other team in the league has had comparable HEALTHY talent across the 2021-2022 seasons. Had Joe Barry inherited that 2009 squad I’m totally convinced we’d see similarly effective results.

Brilliant assessment and reaction. Capers had 9. McCarthy had 13. And Ted Thompson had 13 I believe. Longevity means something. If you do not have it you cannot make a very fair comparison.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well, at least one fan believes in Joe Barry, so that’s a positive, right?

I’m absolutely 100% ok with giving him 1 more season. I don’t think he’s nearly as bad as your emotions are taking you. I think Barry finished strong last season and if he continues down that late 2022 season path and we can get a player to rise? Such as LVN or Wyatt etc..? Plus get a player back somewhat healthy like Gary? I think we’ll be fine. Maybe not top 5, but possibly top 6-12 area.
If not, then we’ll desecrate his legacy

 

[Poppa San]

I’m absolutely 100% ok with giving him 1 more season. I don’t think he’s nearly as bad as your emotions are taking you. I think Barry finished strong last season and if he continues down that late 2022 season path and we can get a player to rise? Such as LVN or Wyatt etc..? Plus get a player back somewhat healthy like Gary? I think we’ll be fine. Maybe not top 5, but possibly top 6-12 area.
If not, then we’ll desecrate his legacy

First game I see the DBs playing 15 yards off on 3 & 12 with a 3 man rush I'm getting aboard the fire Barry train.

 

[milani]

First game I see the DBs playing 15 yards off on 3 & 12 with a 3 man rush I'm getting aboard the fire Barry train.

I hated that. Capers used it. Donatell used it. And Fritz Shurmur used it... too often. Just because one of your 3 is Clay Matthews or Reggie White or KGB does not mean they will get pressure when you have 5 in protection. That is most significantly the reason Owens made that game winning playoff catch in 1998.

 

[thequick12]

I think Barry finished strong last season

Finished strong by playing zone on a 3rd and 3 with the game/season on the line against detroit? Goff completed an easy pass to a wide open player to convert and seal the game, the packers season, and Rodgers career as a Packer

Not my idea of finishing strong but hey

 

[Mondio]

I’m absolutely 100% ok with giving him 1 more season. I don’t think he’s nearly as bad as your emotions are taking you. I think Barry finished strong last season and if he continues down that late 2022 season path and we can get a player to rise? Such as LVN or Wyatt etc..? Plus get a player back somewhat healthy like Gary? I think we’ll be fine. Maybe not top 5, but possibly top 6-12 area.
If not, then we’ll desecrate his legacy

I seem to remember heading into last season thinking the same thing. We had a Linebacker and DB jump on board that became studs and would be in year 2. Gary was still getting better. We had a promising young DB getting back on the field and an all pro DB getting back on the field. Even added a few promising rookies. Barry seemed to get them playing well despite a lot of losses etc by the end of the prior season and we were all envisioning a top 5 defense heading into last year. And then they sucked over and over and over again.

 

[Voyageur]

I think I've heard this song before? Kind of like déjà vu all over again. It's only a question of how long it will take before this defense breaks, and it's blamed on injuries, and one or two guys recovering from injuries, nobody taking credit for being the inept architect of the demise.

I have absolutely no faith in our defense.

But, that's my opinion.

​

 

[tynimiller]

I am currently SICK of the "Packers should have grabbed DHop" discussions going on everywhere. I'm sorry I don't think of late I've more vehemently disagreed with any take as this one. Signing DHop would have been more moronic of our management then them to offer Jonathan Ford a $10M a year, four year deal, fully guaranteed....

SMH....

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I agree with your base premise of "Capers is a better DC than Barry", I don't agree with the idea that Capers wasn't given talent to work with. I actually think by 2018, that was why Capers lost his job as the Packers DC. TT had pumped a ton of draft resources into the defense and Capers didn't seem to be able to do a whole lot with it.

2009: BJ Raji and Clay Matthews, both 1st rounders.
2010: Mike Neal (2nd Rd.)
2012: Nick Perry (1st Rd.), Jerel Worthy (2nd) Casey Hayward (2nd)
2013: Datone Jones (1st Rd.)
2014: Ha Ha Dix (1st Rd.)
2015: Damarious Randall (1st) and Quinton Rollins (2nd)
2016: Kenny Clarke (1st)
2017: Kevin King (1st) and Josh Jones (2nd)

Just typing the list out pains me, to think of all the draft Capital Teddy pumped into the defense during Capers time. Now one could also easily make an argument that it wasn't just Capers, but maybe bad scouting and GMing?

Aside of Hayward none of the other players you mentioned excelled for another team after their time with the Packers ended. Therefore I think they weren't all that talented to begin with and Capers shouldn't be the one to blame for their shortcomings.

Im sorry but I had to fact check this because it just didn’t sound right and actually I learned that’s not accurate. I know they both have struggled at times, but here’s the bigger picture.

Capers has been DC of 6 squads with a bottom 10 Defense (1998,2003,2005,2007,2013,2017)
6/19 bottom 10 squads. We should recall twice lately with the Packers across just 9 seasons in GB. Joe Barry has never finished bottom 10 across 8 seasons

Capers averaged DC ranking is #16.52 (19 seasons). Capers has a LAST place finish #32 (2005) and 3 bottom 5 Defenses (bottom dweller in 1998,2005,2007)
Barry averaged DC ranking is #14.51 (8 seasons) Barry’s worst finish? #20 (2018)

Barry’s avg. D in Green Bay=#15
Capers avg. D in “ “ = #15

Barry was DC for the Rams #1 Ranked D in 2020. Joe Barry has been the same or better from almost every angle.
Barry has Better ceiling ranking (#1)
Barry has a better average ranking
Barry has equal ranking in GB.
Barry has no bottom finishes
Barry rankings are stable (Capers rankings are like a Porpoise effect)

I have no idea where you got that numbers from but they're inaccurate at best.

Barry has been a defensive coordinator in the NFL for six seasons and has never had a defense which finished better than 13th in points allowed (2021 Packers). He was the DC in Detroit for two seasons in 2007 and '08 when the Lions finished dead last in points allowed both times. On average his ranking is 21.67.

On the other side, Capers has coordinated seven defenses in 16 seasons that finished in the top 10 in scoring, once leading the league and another three times finishing in second. His worst finish came in 2007 when the Dolphins ended up being 30th in the league in points allowed. His average ranking is 12.44.

Capers inherited a pretty darn good D unit in 2009, AJ Hawk, Clay Mathews, Charles Woodson, Nick Collins, Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnette, Ryan Pickett?

Yet the Packers finished 22nd in points allowed the season before Capers was named defensive coordinator.

 

[OldSchool101]

Oh I agree. However we’ve been doing that for 2 decades! Lol

Seriously though. I can’t count the number of times across multiple DC’s we send in a 5 Pass rushers and simultaneously play over 10 yards off every WR. It’s kinda common sense that the ball has to come out in like 2 seconds and these DC can’t quite wrap their brains around something so simplex (that’s a word I made up that means they complicate simple)

 

[OldSchool101]

Works better if you first apply the tar and THEN the feathers!

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Oh wow thanks! I’ve been doing it backwards all these years I thought I was supposed to kinda seal the Feathers on.
What a dunce I am!

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