Tactics under Matt LeFleur

[Mondio]

Adams had beat the DB deep. AR12 underthrew the ball. Should have went for the back pylon for 6, not the front which allowed the DB time to recover and break it up. Or threw it a second earlier. I don't recall what the rush and pocket looked like for that.

I thought it needed to come sooner. Adams had him beat early with a good step and a half. But probably a tough throw. Too flat and laser like it allows the defender to make a play even being beaten with a jump and a tip. A tad too much arc and it allows the defender to make up some ground. Had he throw that exact ball a step earlier it's there as Adams is there and the defender has not chance to make up ground.

The anticipation it takes to be perfect is crazy when you think about it, and though it didn't work on this play, they do it quite often.

 

[gopkrs]

Trying to take a kill shot in the end zone with too much time left and not forcing Detroit to burn timeouts by running or throwing short passes on them.

I agree about the kill shot. But I think forcing them to take time outs is over-rated. Yes, take it into consideration, but the best thing to do imho is to get the first down.

 

[gopkrs]

the 3rd down pass to Tonyan to pick up a first down and end the game.

I think the next time we use this play on 3rd or 4th down at crunch time, will be one time too many. But I do agree with going for the 1st down like McCarthy never did.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the next time we use this play on 3rd or 4th down at crunch time, will be one time too many. But I do agree with going for the 1st down like McCarthy never did.

A very good point, you really need a full arsenal of plays for each unique situation. Third and short in the 1st Q, is much different than 3rd and short when you have a lead and its under 2 minutes left in the game. I can understand wanting to force the other team to use a timeout or run more time off the clock by running it. However, I really like the aggression that MLF seems to show, some of which might be dictated by his lack of confidence in the defense.

So here is a question. Had the Packers not picked up that first down, would you have trotted Crosby out there for what would have been another 57/58 yard kick, gone for it on 4th down or punted?

 

[gopkrs]

A very good point, you really need a full arsenal of plays for each unique situation. Third and short in the 1st Q, is much different than 3rd and short when you have a lead and its under 2 minutes left in the game. I can understand wanting to force the other team to use a timeout or run more time off the clock by running it. However, I really like the aggression that MLF seems to show, some of which might be dictated by his lack of confidence in the defense.

So here is a question. Had the Packers not picked up that first down, would you have trotted Crosby out there for what would have been another 57/58 yard kick, gone for it on 4th down or punted?

Good question. I did not even know we were that close. I remember the days when we would kick the field goal for a 6 point lead and the other team would go down the field for a TD. So I kind of don't like a 6 point lead. We put them in a corner and they have all 4 downs. I think I would have punted.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good question. I did not even know we were that close. I remember the days when we would kick the field goal for a 6 point lead and the other team would go down the field for a TD. So I kind of don't like a 6 point lead. We put them in a corner and they have all 4 downs. I think I would have punted.

It would have been an interesting call. The Packers were only up by 7, Crosby just made a similar FG and if he makes another, game over. However, if he misses it, you just gave them the ball back on the 47 with a chance to go down and tie it. With a better defense (and special teams), I am punting the ball. This season, I may have trotted Mason back out to seal the win.

 

[gopkrs]

It would have been an interesting call. The Packers were only up by 7, Crosby just made a similar FG and if he makes another, game over. However, if he misses it, you just gave them the ball back on the 47 with a chance to go down and tie it. With a better defense (and special teams), I am punting the ball. This season, I may have trotted Mason back out to seal the win.

I don't know why I was thinking 3 point lead.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't know why I was thinking 3 point lead.

Probably because with our Defense, 3 and 7 feel the same.

 

[easyk83]

The scary thing is...imagine a more mobile younger Aaron in this system...he is thriving in it now - but LORDY....what might have been.

Granted this isn't entirely fair, Rodgers as a young man might have rebelled against such an offense back when he really believed in extending the play and pushing it downfield. Age sometimes makes a person more reasonable.

 

[Mondio]

I'd say Rodgers did alright and has for a long time. there are 3,000 variables and the one constant would be Rodgers and he's good enough he was good. That's it. It's not like he struggled before or didn't reach the top. and I think people forget, though it was different somewhat, they attacked defenses from all over the place in the passing game for a good portion of his time under a different staff.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hate to belabor the point, especially since MVS had a decent game yesterday, but I think this style of offense is necessary when you don't have a ton of receiving weapons like Rodgers had earlier in his career. Might have been part of the problem last season, Rodgers had pretty much the same skill level group, but he still wanted to free lance a lot more.

 

[gbgary]

MLF went ball control in the 2nd half and that killed the game off. kept our D off the field as much as possible. it got semi-dicey when they went 3 and out in the 4th qtr with two deep throws. needs to stick to ball control O and only take shots in good situations. first 4 games of the season were all about ball control. they've crept away from it since then. this O can do what it wants. it can dictate the game. the D can't. the O has to help it out by owning the clock.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

MLF went ball control in the 2nd half and that killed the game off. kept our D off the field as much as possible. it got semi-dicey when they went 3 and out in the 4th qtr with two deep throws. needs to stick to ball control O and only take shots in good situations. first 4 games of the season were all about ball control. they've crept away from it since then. this O can do what it wants. it can dictate the game. the D can't. the O has to help it out by owning the clock.

I gave you an agree, but I struggle with the fine line between "ball control" and playing too conservative. We saw that way too much with MM and with our defenses, that could spell disaster. So I really don't mind seeing them taking some deep shots or low risk, high rewards plays. Keep the foot on the offensive gas pedal and don't make the defense win a game for us, because chances are, they probably wont.

 

[gbgary]

I gave you an agree, but I struggle with the fine line between "ball control" and playing too conservative. We saw that way too much with MM and with our defenses, that could spell disaster. So I really don't mind seeing them taking some deep shots or low risk, high rewards plays. Keep the foot on the offensive gas pedal and don't make the defense win a game for us, because chances are, they probably wont.

ball control doesn't mean conservative imo. be as creative as they want. just make first downs the priority. you can still take shots. like i said, this O can dictate the game. the D can't. keep them off the field.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ball control doesn't mean conservative imo. be as creative as they want. just make first downs the priority. you can still take shots. like i said, this O can dictate the game. the D can't. keep them off the field.

Like I said, there is a fine line between that notion of "ball control" VS "playing too conservative". MM's #1 goal with a lead seemed to be to eat as much clock as he could, but by conservatively running the ball and I am pretty sure telling his runners to sacrifice yards for ball security. I totally get that approach when you have a decent defense, but not with the Packer defense.

MLF seems to approach it with a much broader and honest view of the abilities of his entire team. Willing to risk a pass in an effort not to have to over rely on his defense on getting those stops.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I agree about the kill shot. But I think forcing them to take time outs is over-rated. Yes, take it into consideration, but the best thing to do imho is to get the first down.

Yeah umm that goes hand in glove with it. Point the offense should have stuck to the textbook drive that we used to milk the clock on the Dallas Cowboys in 2014 after the Dez Bryant play. Rodgers never wasted an endzone shot in that one, and yes, we forced them to burn timeouts.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Agree. While I cringe when those "kill shots" miss, I would much rather see that than the Mike McCarthy "lets run 3 plays and make our defense stop them" conservative play calling. I haven't seen any complaints about the call on the last meaningful play of the game, the 3rd down pass to Tonyan to pick up a first down and end the game.

The only thing I will say on that incompletion to Adams in the endzone, it appeared Lazard was more open underneath. That said, the announcers seemed to think Adams was open and Rodgers just didn't make a great throw.

All in all I think MLF is a much more aggressive and confident play caller and I think Rodgers appreciates that over his previous coach.

Well I don't think you need to run it three straight times, but that pass to Tonyan there was one I had wanted them to run on the Crosby FG try series. Higher percentage throw.

They had Detroit on the ropes running plays like that quick flare to Adams there, and that's what they should have stuck with.

Like I said even if you score a TD and go up by 14, that bummenenga and his lousy kick coverage unit could easily blow that with plenty of time left. They even almost let Detroit recover an onside kick there. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

bummenenga

 

[Poppa San]

Trying to take a kill shot in the end zone with too much time left and not forcing Detroit to burn timeouts by running or throwing short passes on them.

Yeah umm that goes hand in glove with it. Point the offense should have stuck to the textbook drive that we used to milk the clock on the Dallas Cowboys in 2014 after the Dez Bryant play. Rodgers never wasted an endzone shot in that one, and yes, we forced them to burn timeouts.

If I am thinking of the same play, that kill-shot was the best WR in the league mano-a-mano with a backup DB expecting the pass from a generational QB. I'll take that shot almost every time. A longer or earlier pass and you are here lauding the great play and how it wasn't the same old MM offense of run three times and kick.

 

[easyk83]

It's on Rodgers too a little, but LaFleur obviously didn't call a run play there.

Id say you can still have some moderate aggressiveness with your play calling in that situation, but if your offense could pick up a few more first downs and run the clock out, you go with that.

Especially when considering that even if you do score a TD there, you got that lousy Mennenga kick coverage unit tasked with holding the lead.

I think you do have to occasionally take those shots even in those circumstances. If Aaron sees that Tae doesnt have a safety shading over the top that means the safety is covering elsewhere on the field. Even trying a deep ball and failing means that their safeties and other defenses will at least have to respect that possibility and adjust safety play accordingly.

Football is like cards, if they know you never bluff youre never going to win or play well. If you avoid chunk plays in end of game situations they will creep their safeties up to press the intermediate and short routes. This makes the safer throws harder to come by.

 

[Mondio]

It all comes down to making the play. Time and Time again across the entire league every single game we see instances where it looks like easy run and they're stuffed or they should pass and they do some little dump or shovel pass that goes for 40 yards and the majority are what you'd expect for down and distances. For all the grief MM gets, just last week with Elliot they ran 3 consecutive times from inside the 2 yard line. I think they were on the 1 at one point, 4th down they got a TD by passing. It doesn't always work like it's "supposed" to, it just has to or if you don't make enough plays you lose.

Everyone bags on MM for being to conservative, run run run punt. well NFCCG they passed to the TE, would have been a first down, he dropped it. Did it matter? People tend to remember an instance where they wanted something and they ran something else that didn't work and think that's how it always went. MM was so conservative we passed too much and came out of the half in big games doing onside kicks.

anyway, Rodgers and MLF have proven they can run and operate an offense It's hard to be too critical.

 

[PikeBadger]

Every time I hear about McCarthy being ultra conservative I think about one of my favorite plays in Packer history. The 4th and goal from the 26 fake field goal shovel pass to Crabtree for a TD against the Bears. That was the ballsiest gamble I’ve ever seen from an NFL coach.

 

[easyk83]

It all comes down to making the play. Time and Time again across the entire league every single game we see instances where it looks like easy run and they're stuffed or they should pass and they do some little dump or shovel pass that goes for 40 yards and the majority are what you'd expect for down and distances. For all the grief MM gets, just last week with Elliot they ran 3 consecutive times from inside the 2 yard line. I think they were on the 1 at one point, 4th down they got a TD by passing. It doesn't always work like it's "supposed" to, it just has to or if you don't make enough plays you lose.

Everyone bags on MM for being to conservative, run run run punt. well NFCCG they passed to the TE, would have been a first down, he dropped it. Did it matter? People tend to remember an instance where they wanted something and they ran something else that didn't work and think that's how it always went. MM was so conservative we passed too much and came out of the half in big games doing onside kicks.

anyway, Rodgers and MLF have proven they can run and operate an offense It's hard to be too critical.

My problem with MM wasnt that he was too conservative but rather his hard headedness. A classic McCarthyism was "it doesnt matter if they know what's coming if you execute it well enough." A paraphrase yes and while somewhat true what if you lack the pieces to execute? With MM teams knew when we were running based on substitutions and knew when we were passing. If Lacy was in it was a run for instance even with a single back set. If we had Starks in it was a pass. It really helps when defenses do not know what you're doing, which in turn might cause your offensive pieces to execute better. I for one like an offense where Aaron isn't forced to pass into a defense with a two deep shell, end split out to the 7 tech or wide 9, and LBs playing way off the line. I also like seeing running plays against defenses that aren't constantly cheating against the run.

 

[Mondio]

we had one of the best offenses in the league year after year after year. In a league where teams seem to catch on to a teams offense after 1 season and there's changes all the time, He/they sustained for a pretty long time. Eventually it ran its course.

 

[jon]

though it was different somewhat, they attacked defenses from all over the place in the passing game for a good portion of his time under a different staff.

For my money, here's the big change in offensive strategy. Under MM, the QB would be in a position to attack the whole field, sideline to sideline and 60 yards downfield, on almost every play. MM stressed a defense downfield. Under MLF, the targeted zone is much closer to the line of scrimmage with occasional (well timed) shots down field. MLF's motion and disguise stress a defense more laterally, if I can put it that way.