Studs n duds vs Niners

[BrokenArrow]

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This was a critical mistake by the officiating crew. Jordan is the player below Kraft. His head is covered up by a 49er player but the ball is under his chin or at helmet level give or take 3”. Both 3rd down and 4th runs the ball is moved back more than 1 foot + ti 122 yard. If that was the Endzone on a replay? Jordan broke the plane (notice the orange marker at top of screen is 2-4” BEFORE the next hash. Jordan actually made the hash mark and possibly past it a few inches.
Watch in this next frame how far back they spot the ball. At very least it should be touching the 13 yard line marker.

Jordan’s helmet if brought down the line would scrape Bosa’s helmet. Tell me what yard marker Bosa helmet or maybe very close to Walkers elbow. Within inches of that green on Walkers armpit at worst case.

You can't see the ball at all. He probably got the 1st down, but there was no way possible to change it.

 

[BrokenArrow]

My only two criticisms were the "t u$h (seriously, "****" is censored??) push" crap play. And the Carlson miss. I never want to see that damn play again, as we all saw, you can't see the ball to make a challenge. We should have either called a timeout and gotten a good play together, or (my preference) kick the damn FG.

I also didn't like the decision to kick the FG in the 4th quarter. Yeah, we needed 9 yards for the first down, but it was time to go for the kill shot. Get the first down and put the game away with a TD or at least a closer FG attempt. Worst case you give them a long field to tie or win the game, which ended up happening anyway.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

My only two criticisms were the "t u$h (seriously, "****" is censored??) push" crap play. And the Carlson miss. I never want to see that damn play again, as we all saw, you can't see the ball to make a challenge. We should have either called a timeout and gotten a good play together, or (my preference) kick the damn FG.

I also didn't like the decision to kick the FG in the 4th quarter. Yeah, we needed 9 yards for the first down, but it was time to go for the kill shot. Get the first down and put the game away with a TD or at least a closer FG attempt. Worst case you give them a long field to tie or win the game, which ended up happening anyway.

Love was not particular accurate or efficient in the 4th quarter. I have to imagine the chances of hitting a 40 yard field goal are higher than converting 4th and 9. Especially when it puts us up by 7. The FG was a no brainer. Just wish we had a better kicker.

Also, we do not have the OL to execute a QB sneak effectively. They are not great at getting leverage and pushing the pile.

 

[OldSchool101]

How do you know the team learned all of those lessons? It's quite apparent that MLF still hasn't learned his lessons with special teams. The kicker was a train wreck the second half of the season but MLF just whistled in the dark like he did two years ago with Mo Drayton. Overconfidence, stubbornness and ego can get in the way of learning important lessons. It would be great if they learned all the lessons you listed but it's far from a sure thing. Judging from MLF and special teams, it may even be very doubtful.

While this might be true, there are aspects of Special Teams moves that proved to benefit us. Just look at the players that came because of Rich. Ford, Leavitt, Nixon and Eric Wilson were really all Rich B. Guys. Think about that. We still have at least 2 Regular ST producers and a 3rd is an All Pro Returner AND starting Slot CB.

I think the Carlson move was giving Rich his “guy” in this draft. We 100% knew all along Carlson would need time to perfect his Kraft and I suppose nobody expected us to get to a Divisional game, so our expediting a playoff run a bit prematurely didn’t coincide at Kicker. Really neither did parting ways with Rasul.

While you might be correct in the short term, those were both failed moves, but 100% anticipating we’d take at minimum a 1 year setback (betting on our future)

I guess you could say these are good problems because the remainder of the team is way ahead of schedule. Would we rather have a great Kicker and be 7-10? I don’t know I’ll take our current situation, but I sympathize with your being discouraged on 1 player.

I guess what I’m saying is we have to take the good with the bad. No team is perfect and most have bigger mistakes than we do. I’m discouraged at the missed FG, but did you watch the Buffalo game? Same deal and Tyler Bass is an 85% career FG Kicker. Neither game were exactly ideal conditions, it was pouring rain at the end of our game.

 

[Pugger]

What I mean is that Wilkes is a better DC than Barry. If the Packers could get Wilkes and dump Barry it would be an upgrade even though it's purely hypothetical given that Wilkes is very likely to not take another DC job before he gets a chance at a HC position. If you want to wash, rinse and repeat, by all means bring back Barry. I'd rather be a serious SB contender which they won't be with Barry. He has a proven track record.

Unfortunately I seriously doubt Barry is going to be relieved of his duties in 2024. I just don't see MLF making that move at this time.

 

[Pugger]

How do you know the team learned all of those lessons? It's quite apparent that MLF still hasn't learned his lessons with special teams. The kicker was a train wreck the second half of the season but MLF just whistled in the dark like he did two years ago with Mo Drayton. Overconfidence, stubbornness and ego can get in the way of learning important lessons. It would be great if they learned all the lessons you listed but it's far from a sure thing. Judging from MLF and special teams, it may even be very doubtful.

As I said earlier, yes our kicker struggled (why Gute squandered a precious draft pick on a kicker is a mystery) but every other aspect of our return team has improved big time this year. I hope they bring in another kicker this summer. A new long snapper would help too.

 

[Pugger]

My only two criticisms were the "t u$h (seriously, "****" is censored??) push" crap play. And the Carlson miss. I never want to see that damn play again, as we all saw, you can't see the ball to make a challenge. We should have either called a timeout and gotten a good play together, or (my preference) kick the damn FG.

I also didn't like the decision to kick the FG in the 4th quarter. Yeah, we needed 9 yards for the first down, but it was time to go for the kill shot. Get the first down and put the game away with a TD or at least a closer FG attempt. Worst case you give them a long field to tie or win the game, which ended up happening anyway.

I agree with you about not taking the FG in the first quarter but in the 4th had Carlson made it wouldn't we be tied then?

 

[Pugger]

Love was not particular accurate or efficient in the 4th quarter. I have to imagine the chances of hitting a 40 yard field goal are higher than converting 4th and 9. Especially when it puts us up by 7. The FG was a no brainer. Just wish we had a better kicker.

Also, we do not have the OL to execute a QB sneak effectively. They are not great at getting leverage and pushing the pile.

Perhaps we need a center with a little more girth and power?

 

[BrokenArrow]

I agree with you about not taking the FG in the first quarter but in the 4th had Carlson made it wouldn't we be tied then?

We would, of course, but you know, with all the "house money" talk and the fact that our defense can't be trusted once Barry goes conservative, I was all for going for the kill.

 

[mradtke66]

I honestly have a hard time calling anyone a dud. We can up a little short, but short enough that any one of few small changes gets us to the championship. Yes, you can pick on Carlson for the miss but that's just overtime. A win isn't assured.

If we snag either pick, we likely win. If Love doesn't get the yips in the 4th quarter, we probably win. If he's a little more cool-headed and doesn't decide to throw that bad one to end it on 1st down, we were still in position to win or tie.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While phrases like "bright future" and "house money" will be used, these opportunities are rare and precious.

As they are for every team.

Not saying this directly to you, but it seriously feels like some Packer fans don't realize just how hard winning it all is, only 1 team each year does it. To make it to that summit requires skill and luck. One injury can change your whole season, getting healthy at the right moment and getting a break in the playoffs can do the same. The Packers were literally a mistake or 2 away from being in the NFCCG and some fans are acting like this was an 0-17 season and the #1 seeded 49'ers blew right past the #7 seeded Packers.

 

[Pugger]

We would, of course, but you know, with all the "house money" talk and the fact that our defense can't be trusted once Barry goes conservative, I was all for going for the kill.

I might be old school but I always feel it is more prudent to go for the points, especially if you are on the road. Of course our kicker isn't automatic but that's another story...

 

[Pugger]

As they are for every team.

Not saying this directly to you, but it seriously feels like some Packer fans don't realize just how hard winning it all is, only 1 team each year does it. To make it to that summit requires skill and luck. One injury can change your whole season, getting healthy at the right moment and getting a break in the playoffs can do the same. The Packers were literally a mistake or 2 away from being in the NFCCG and some fans are acting like this was an 0-17 season and the #1 seeded 49'ers blew right past the #7 seeded Packers.

But as you said, it isn't easy to get to the Divisional round. But I think you and I can agree this feels differently than the last couple of playoff loses. The arrow seems to be pointing up while the window was beginning to close with Rodgers. Unless we have big time injuries, especially to Love, next year 2024 should be a fun season for us all.

 

[mradtke66]

I might be old school but I always feel it is more prudent to go for the points, especially if you are on the road.

Counterpoint: everyone who bashed McCarthy for not going for it on 4th down inside the redzone against the Seahawks in 2014. And our 2023 quarterback had two functional calves.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Counterpoint: everyone who bashed McCarthy for not going for it on 4th down inside the redzone against the Seahawks in 2014. And our 2023 quarterback had two functional calves.

Counterpoint: They don't pick up the 4th and 9, when it is obvious that a very makeable 41 yard FG stretches the lead to 7 points with 6 minutes to play.

Even if they pick up the first down (odds were against it), there is no guarantee of scoring a TD and you might be back to kicking a FG.

Carlson was 8 for 8 on the year when kicking from 30-39 yards. I would have put money on him making a 41 yarder.

Carlson missed 13 kicks out of 83 over 19 games. 6 of those were XP's. Which means he was 84.3% accurate on all his kicks. Not good, but not as terrible as some are wanting to make it. How many of those 13 were on him and how many were on the snap/hold?

He was 3 of 5 from 50+

He was perfect (on FG's) inside the 40

He will be back in camp, but the Packers will bring in competition

 

[DigRun]

New guy here (live in MN 17 miles from the Queens palace US Bank)...been following you all for a few years and it's time to jump in once in a while. Back to Wilson's amazing high-speed recovery of Nixon's fumble. It seems like more "old" Packers go to the Vikings and help them out (Longwell, Jennings, Sharper, Favre, et al.) but once in a while it comes our way. That play kept the drive and the dream alive for more time and he had a host of 9er's on his tail were he to miss the short hop.

It's weird how much expectations ebbed and flowed so much this season. At 2-5 I was resigned to the idea of a "learning" year for all the youngsters, but when you love your team and they began to figure out that quote from Aerosmith "...you've got to lose to know how to win..." it's so easy to get pulled in to the possibilities for us as fans that grew along with those guys. What a fun season and it's hard to be crashing the wall the 9er's seemed to be and yet again watching them move on to the NFC championship. If the 9er's spank the Lions this weekend I know the feeling I had/have now will come back knowing we were SOOO close...

Wish J Love had seen Kraft over to the left sideline by the 50 yd line who was open vs. Watson with a trio of defenders in his vicinity. It would've been a long off-balance throw running away from him, but one can dream right? He seems like a good kid and I look forward to the possibilities he and so many have provided...and one other thing. We won SB 31, then 45...59 is next season! Just sayin...

GPG!

 

[GBkrzygrl]

My .02.

I was really impressed with what the team did in the last few weeks. They played hard and showed that the situation was not going to be too big for them. I don't know what exactly happened with this game. Love hasn't thrown any interceptions in quite a while. Saturday night he had three. The 2 defensive guys dropped 2 interceptions which would have changed the game. Even with those miscues they were in the game. Even had the lead for a while.

It almost seemed like the missed field goal took the wind out of their sails. Speaking of missed field goals, I doubt seriously that they give up on Carlson already. I agree that they will bring in competition next training camp. Maybe he just needs to grow. Maybe he is not an NFL kicker. But I think they will still give him a chance to improve.

 

[mradtke66]

Counterpoint: They don't pick up the 4th and 9, when it is obvious that a very makeable 41 yard FG stretches the lead to 7 points with 6 minutes to play.

Sorry, my point was that MLF made the right call going for it on 4th and 1 early in the game. And made the right call kicking it late, even though it was missed.

He will be back in camp, but the Packers will bring in competition

Also agree.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sorry, my point was that MLF made the right call going for it on 4th and 1 early in the game. And made the right call kicking it late, even though it was missed.

Got ya. Sorry, I obviously misunderstood ya.

As far as the 4th and 1, no question it was the right call to go for it, I just didn't like the play call one bit. The Eagles perfected the brotherly shove and I have seen quite a few teams fail trying to duplicate it. The Packers rushed the play and obviously didn't block well. Also, I think defenses have now studied that play a lot and figured out tactics to try and stop it.

If the NFL doesn't outlaw that play, the Packers really need to work on it in the offseason, otherwise they need to scrap it and come up with something better.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My .02.

I was really impressed with what the team did in the last few weeks. They played hard and showed that the situation was not going to be too big for them. I don't know what exactly happened with this game. Love hasn't thrown any interceptions in quite a while. Saturday night he had three. The 2 defensive guys dropped 2 interceptions which would have changed the game. Even with those miscues they were in the game. Even had the lead for a while.

It almost seemed like the missed field goal took the wind out of their sails. Speaking of missed field goals, I doubt seriously that they give up on Carlson already. I agree that they will bring in competition next training camp. Maybe he just needs to grow. Maybe he is not an NFL kicker. But I think they will still give him a chance to improve.

Love only threw 2 interceptions. Both by Greenlaw. The first might have been too high of a throw, but it didn't help that Kraft tipped it up, right to Greenlaw. The 2nd one, a very fine interception of an underthrown ball by Love.

Otherwise, I fully agree with your 2 pennies.

 

[Team Ronny]

Doesn't help that Tom got hurt..Nijman was good..but..they turned the pressure up once Tom went out.

 

[mradtke66]

Got ya. Sorry, I obviously misunderstood ya.

As far as the 4th and 1, no question it was the right call to go for it, I just didn't like the play call one bit. The Eagles perfected the brotherly shove and I have seen quite a few teams fail trying to duplicate it. The Packers rushed the play and obviously didn't block well. Also, I think defenses have now studied that play a lot and figured out tactics to try and stop it.

If the NFL doesn't outlaw that play,

Meh. It’s a QB sneak with the upbacks pushing. It’s not rocket science.

Similarly, the only potentially illegal part is the upbacks pushing. Then we’re back to a regular sneak.

The 9ers just played it better. Cram enough bodies in there and it gets harder for the O.

In a perfect world, there should be a check with motion to draw a middle defender away from the ball. He folllws the motion, you sneak. He stays, you pitch out wide.

 

[milani]

I agree with you about not taking the FG in the first quarter but in the 4th had Carlson made it wouldn't we be tied then?

And had we had a 24-17 lead the 9ers knew a FG would do them know good. They would have been less likely to run the ball knowing all we had to do was keep them out of the end zone.

 

[milani]

Meh. It’s a QB sneak with the upbacks pushing. It’s not rocket science.

Similarly, the only potentially illegal part is the upbacks pushing. Then we’re back to a regular sneak.

The 9ers just played it better. Cram enough bodies in there and it gets harder for the O.

In a perfect world, there should be a check with motion to draw a middle defender away from the ball. He folllws the motion, you sneak. He stays, you pitch out wide.

The Eagles do it the best. But our line against the 9er line is not the best matchup. If it was Carolina then definitely. Timeout would have been wiser. But the 3rd down play was the key. Without Dillon I hesitate to run a smash play unless you have a FB. Play fake to Jones and roll out to look for a TE.

 

[Sanguine camper]

While this might be true, there are aspects of Special Teams moves that proved to benefit us. Just look at the players that came because of Rich. Ford, Leavitt, Nixon and Eric Wilson were really all Rich B. Guys. Think about that. We still have at least 2 Regular ST producers and a 3rd is an All Pro Returner AND starting Slot CB.

I think the Carlson move was giving Rich his “guy” in this draft. We 100% knew all along Carlson would need time to perfect his Kraft and I suppose nobody expected us to get to a Divisional game, so our expediting a playoff run a bit prematurely didn’t coincide at Kicker. Really neither did parting ways with Rasul.

While you might be correct in the short term, those were both failed moves, but 100% anticipating we’d take at minimum a 1 year setback (betting on our future)

I guess you could say these are good problems because the remainder of the team is way ahead of schedule. Would we rather have a great Kicker and be 7-10? I don’t know I’ll take our current situation, but I sympathize with your being discouraged on 1 player.

I guess what I’m saying is we have to take the good with the bad. No team is perfect and most have bigger mistakes than we do. I’m discouraged at the missed FG, but did you watch the Buffalo game? Same deal and Tyler Bass is an 85% career FG Kicker. Neither game were exactly ideal conditions, it was pouring rain at the end of our game.

What I'm getting at are the pitfalls of ignoring glaring problems that derail a season. I agree some better personnel have been brought in by Bisaccia. Bringing in someone who can kick extra points and 40 yard field goals isn't too difficult. It really wasn't a tough decision because Carlson could've stayed on team by going to the practice squad. I think MLF went for it in 4th down and bypassed 3 points because of a lack of confidence in Carlson. With a reasonably competent kicker, the Packers get 3 more points in the first half and 3 more in the second half. That leaves the Packers with 27 and they are getting ready to play the Lions in the NFCCG.