Studs n duds vs Niners

[longtimefan]

Got ya. Sorry, I obviously misunderstood ya.

As far as the 4th and 1, no question it was the right call to go for it, I just didn't like the play call one bit. The Eagles perfected the brotherly shove and I have seen quite a few teams fail trying to duplicate it. The Packers rushed the play and obviously didn't block well. Also, I think defenses have now studied that play a lot and figured out tactics to try and stop it.

If the NFL doesn't outlaw that play, the Packers really need to work on it in the offseason, otherwise they need to scrap it and come up with something better.

Love shove

 

[milani]

What I'm getting at are the pitfalls of ignoring glaring problems that derail a season. I agree some better personnel have been brought in by Bisaccia. Bringing in someone who can kick extra points and 40 yard field goals isn't too difficult. It really wasn't a tough decision because Carlson could've stayed on team by going to the practice squad. I think MLF went for it in 4th down and bypassed 3 points because of a lack of confidence in Carlson. With a reasonably competent kicker, the Packers get 3 more points in the first half and 3 more in the second half. That leaves the Packers with 27 and they are getting ready to play the Lions in the NFCCG.

Would have liked to see us come out of that drive with 3. Nothing feels worse than coming away empty. Now if we could have lost a few yards on 3rd down I know MLF would go for the 3.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Counterpoint: everyone who bashed McCarthy for not going for it on 4th down inside the redzone against the Seahawks in 2014. And our 2023 quarterback had two functional calves.

While I have bashed MM for other reasons, I think he was right to take the points. Lacy wasn't very good at that point at breaking tackles and was a poor risk on short yardage. What I can't forgive him for is being so unprepared for the fake FG that turned the whole game. See a pattern there? Choking in the playoffs due to pathetic special teams.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I think MLF went for it in 4th down and bypassed 3 points because of a lack of confidence in Carlson.

I think he went for it because it was less than a yard, it was deep enough in their territory not to give them a short field and there was a reasonable chance for success. I don't think it had anything to do with the kicker at that early point in the game.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think he went for it because it was less than a yard, it was deep enough in their territory not to give them a short field and there was a reasonable chance for success. I don't think it had anything to do with the kicker at that early point in the game.

Yes I Agree. I’ll tell you also why it wasn’t for lack of confidence in Carlson. Carlson was 100% inside <40 yards on FG for the season.. 20/20
I actually did not know that until today just by chance, it surprised me a little. I was reading up on him and comparing him with other Kickers.
I also don’t think Carlson was as bad as we made him for a Rookie season after my findings. I think our emotions got the best of us on that last kick and it almost factored it like 3 missed FG. That Kick is not why we lost any more than the Dez Catch wouldn’t have won that game (most people forget that or act like it was the last play of regulation)
Matter of fact? the best case is that kick would’ve tied the game and the way the momentum had swung I’d even say SF had more of it.

I also wasn’t aware there was a pretty good wind on that 42 yarder I just saw the rain increasing on camera. He spoke to having to adjust his angle for the right to left crosswind. When he took credit for that miss (which is noble) he inadvertently spoke to the poor conditions by accident and that wind and rain should be at least factored. That 42 was more like a 52 imho.
If you lose the game because of 1 missed 50 yard type FG? you obviously didn’t do your job in other phases.

 

[milani]

While I have bashed MM for other reasons, I think he was right to take the points. Lacy wasn't very good at that point at breaking tackles and was a poor risk on short yardage. What I can't forgive him for is being so unprepared for the fake FG that turned the whole game. See a pattern there? Choking in the playoffs due to pathetic special teams.

And we were up against maybe the best D in the NFL.

 

[milani]

I think he went for it because it was less than a yard, it was deep enough in their territory not to give them a short field and there was a reasonable chance for success. I don't think it had anything to do with the kicker at that early point in the game.

I almost wish we lost yardage on 3rd down. It would have guaranteed the FG attempt.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If you lose the game because of 1 missed 50 yard type FG? you obviously didn’t do your job in other phases.

I agree with most of your post except this one. Losing by a FG doesn't necessarily mean you didn't do your job. It simply means the two teams were pretty evenly matched. You don't generally get to play in Super Bowls unless you win the close games. The kicker is part of that equation.

We also lost by 2 against the Broncos and Giants where he missed FGs. Against those two teams, yeah, you could say it shouldn't have come down to that anyway. But not in the playoffs. Not late in the game against the #1 seed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Love shove

Looked more like a Love Tap to me. Definitely a play to work on before the start of next season, both on offense and defense. Now if they could just find a 500 lb center, that was really quick on his feet!

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[milani]

Yes I Agree. I’ll tell you also why it wasn’t for lack of confidence in Carlson. Carlson was 100% inside <40 yards on FG for the season.. 20/20
I actually did not know that until today just by chance, it surprised me a little. I was reading up on him and comparing him with other Kickers.
I also don’t think Carlson was as bad as we made him for a Rookie season after my findings. I think our emotions got the best of us on that last kick and it almost factored it like 3 missed FG. That Kick is not why we lost any more than the Dez Catch wouldn’t have won that game (most people forget that or act like it was the last play of regulation)
Matter of fact? the best case is that kick would’ve tied the game and the way the momentum had swung I’d even say SF had more of it.

I also wasn’t aware there was a pretty good wind on that 42 yarder I just saw the rain increasing on camera. He spoke to having to adjust his angle for the right to left crosswind. When he took credit for that miss (which is noble) he inadvertently spoke to the poor conditions by accident and that wind and rain should be at least factored. That 42 was more like a 52 imho.
If you lose the game because of 1 missed 50 yard type FG? you obviously didn’t do your job in other phases.

Back in 1997 we came into the old Frisco stadium by the water. The rain and wind were much more torrential. Being able to adjust to that takes a lot. Rookie Ryan Longwell went 3-4 including a crucial 43 yarder on the last play of the first half. If anyone watches the replay his kick made a drastic left turn at the last second to split the uprights. Indoor kickers get spoiled.

 

[Guacamole]

Last game of the year and you finally named the title appropiately

 

[Team Ronny]

I almost wish we lost yardage on 3rd down. It would have guaranteed the FG attempt.

They got a bad spot. It looked close. I think Jones got the 1st there. They didn't show a very good replay of it though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They got a bad spot. It looked close. I think Jones got the 1st there. They didn't show a very good replay of it though.

Spot on! Or Spot Off, as it may be.

This is another play that I have watched over and over again and the ball was NOT spotted correctly.

Jones 3rd down run was short of the 1st down, by about a half yard. The side judge actually is appearing to have made a perfect spot of the ball as he is jogging up to mark the ball. Umpire Mike Morton runs in, from WAY behind the play and puts the ball back a full half yard from where the side judge had spotted in. In the Packers attempt to hurry and run the 4th down play, for some reason nobody notices that the ball has been spotted incorrectly. Packers snap the ball, run the play and are inches short.

Had the Packers not rushed that play, maybe someone in the booth spots it, whether its a Packer spotter or an official. That ball gets remarked and play goes on. Now that doesn't mean they pick up the first down, but they might.

All that said, had the side judge spotted the ball and not Umpire Mike Morton, who was looking at the play from way behind the LOS, the Packers pick up the first down.

 

[Team Ronny]

I don't get why they let the guy furthest from the play make that call or over rule the spot. A half yard is a half yard. Like you said, if it was spotted correctly, it is probably a 1st down.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't get why they let the guy furthest from the play make that call or over rule the spot. A half yard is a half yard. Like you said, if it was spotted correctly, it is probably a 1st down.

I tell ya, this is something they need to fix in the NFL. I have said this over and over, it is a game of inches and in this case, the Packers totally got screwed out of 18 and it cost them big time.

I wish I could share the whole clip, but I am watching it on YouTubeTV.

Each time I play the clip, I just get more steamed. I am actually surprised that this play isn't being talked about more. Everything happened so fast, again the Packers fault for rushing the play, that the announcers don't even seem to notice it.

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[Schultz]

Yes I Agree. I’ll tell you also why it wasn’t for lack of confidence in Carlson. Carlson was 100% inside <40 yards on FG for the season.. 20/20
I actually did not know that until today just by chance, it surprised me a little. I was reading up on him and comparing him with other Kickers.
I also don’t think Carlson was as bad as we made him for a Rookie season after my findings. I think our emotions got the best of us on that last kick and it almost factored it like 3 missed FG. That Kick is not why we lost any more than the Dez Catch wouldn’t have won that game (most people forget that or act like it was the last play of regulation)
Matter of fact? the best case is that kick would’ve tied the game and the way the momentum had swung I’d even say SF had more of it.

I also wasn’t aware there was a pretty good wind on that 42 yarder I just saw the rain increasing on camera. He spoke to having to adjust his angle for the right to left crosswind. When he took credit for that miss (which is noble) he inadvertently spoke to the poor conditions by accident and that wind and rain should be at least factored. That 42 was more like a 52 imho.
If you lose the game because of 1 missed 50 yard type FG? you obviously didn’t do your job in other phases.

Myself and others have been down on Carlson long before the missed FG against Frisco.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Myself and others have been down on Carlson long before the missed FG against Frisco.

Not sure I want to hear the details of THAT party!

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[Sanguine camper]

Yes I Agree. I’ll tell you also why it wasn’t for lack of confidence in Carlson. Carlson was 100% inside <40 yards on FG for the season.. 20/20
I actually did not know that until today just by chance, it surprised me a little. I was reading up on him and comparing him with other Kickers.
I also don’t think Carlson was as bad as we made him for a Rookie season after my findings. I think our emotions got the best of us on that last kick and it almost factored it like 3 missed FG. That Kick is not why we lost any more than the Dez Catch wouldn’t have won that game (most people forget that or act like it was the last play of regulation)
Matter of fact? the best case is that kick would’ve tied the game and the way the momentum had swung I’d even say SF had more of it.

I also wasn’t aware there was a pretty good wind on that 42 yarder I just saw the rain increasing on camera. He spoke to having to adjust his angle for the right to left crosswind. When he took credit for that miss (which is noble) he inadvertently spoke to the poor conditions by accident and that wind and rain should be at least factored. That 42 was more like a 52 imho.
If you lose the game because of 1 missed 50 yard type FG? you obviously didn’t do your job in other phases.

Carlson missed 6 extra points. Those are only 33 yard kicks. He may have hit FG's under 40 yards but his dreadful performance from only 33 yards out would have to figure into decision making. How much confidence can you have in a kicker who was missing those 33 yard kicks on almost a weekly basis? Is there really no chance that all these missed kicks were simply ignored and confidence in the kicker wasn't impacted? That's dubious. I doubt any coach, no matter how thick headed wouldn't completely ignore Carlson's kicking woes.

 

[OldSchool101]

Spot on! Or Spot Off, as it may be.

This is another play that I have watched over and over again and the ball was NOT spotted correctly.

Jones 3rd down run was short of the 1st down, by about a half yard. The side judge actually is appearing to have made a perfect spot of the ball as he is jogging up to mark the ball. Umpire Mike Morton runs in, from WAY behind the play and puts the ball back a full half yard from where the side judge had spotted in. In the Packers attempt to hurry and run the 4th down play, for some reason nobody notices that the ball has been spotted incorrectly. Packers snap the ball, run the play and are inches short.

Had the Packers not rushed that play, maybe someone in the booth spots it, whether its a Packer spotter or an official. That ball gets remarked and play goes on. Now that doesn't mean they pick up the first down, but they might.

All that said, had the side judge spotted the ball and not Umpire Mike Morton, who was looking at the play from way behind the LOS, the Packers pick up the first down.

I agree with this.
While the camera angle can be deceptive, there are ways to get a better feel if you take the time and do the detective work.
I looked at both plays in a half dozen freeze frames and studied both plays. You can see the referee at the marker watching the play and it’s clear he’s positioned past line to gain on 4th down. On the next play he and the football are closer to a full yard away. Most often I’m not looking for excuses because often it’s a good call or a spot in our favor. Those 3rd/4th plays were both spots between 9”-15” approx. short. Twice in a row I’d call it a full yard between the 2 spots which is a crucial mistake .

What’s surprising to me is I’d have a sensor in the center of the ball. That censor has a known distance to either tip and radius to each side of the ball. The average should be calculated and applied to the Field of play. This shouldn’t take 10 seconds to alleviate. The Refs should be able to stay inside 1” shy of the tip spot with modern technology by watching the Sideline stick light at the top during any given spot. The Field Sideline Marker would be visual ti both Sidelines and most fans nearby.
Both sidelines have a field 1st down Marker that would light Green light at the top of the Stick the very millisecond it touches the sideline laser. Very similar to an electronic Stud finder mechanism.

We’re using 1952 technology in 2024 and it’s embarrassing imo. Wally and Beaver would agree

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't get why they let the guy furthest from the play make that call or over rule the spot. A half yard is a half yard. Like you said, if it was spotted correctly, it is probably a 1st down.

Really makes no sense to me how the ball was spotted after Jones's 3rd down carry. The line judge had it right, about 1/2 yard short of the 1st down. The Umpire comes in from way behind the play (no depth perception at all from that angle) and puts the ball back to the original LOS (1/2 yard short of where it should have been).

If I watch that 2 play sequence one more time, I'm going to break something!

 

[PackerDNA]

I not only completely disagreed with the spot, but check out the picture from Long Time Fan just before the ball was snapped. The 49ers are clearly in the neutral zone and off sides.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I not only completely disagreed with the spot, but check out the picture from Long Time Fan just before the ball was snapped. The 49ers are clearly in the neutral zone and off sides.

Just went and found that pic, thanks and to LTF too. Even though the angle is off, it is pretty easy to spot both the hand and the helmet of the 9'ers left end is offsides. So 2 big issues on that play, both probably caught if the Packers aren't trying to just run up and snap it. Both caught if the NFL used GPS as well as a lazer to mark the LOS.

 

[milani]

Just went and found that pic, thanks and to LTF too. Even though the angle is off, it is pretty easy to spot both the hand and the helmet of the 9'ers left end is offsides. So 2 big issues on that play, both probably caught if the Packers aren't trying to just run up and snap it. Both caught if the NFL used GPS as well as a lazer to mark the LOS.

May also have been caught if the game is at Lambeau. But just not a play MLF should have called. A mid-season contest vs. Carolina, OK. But not in the big dance.

 

[longtimefan]

Just went and found that pic, thanks and to LTF too. Even though the angle is off, it is pretty easy to spot both the hand and the helmet of the 9'ers left end is offsides. So 2 big issues on that play, both probably caught if the Packers aren't trying to just run up and snap it. Both caught if the NFL used GPS as well as a lazer to mark the LOS.

Ot was from Bill Michaels.. Sports guy in Wisconsin

 

[lambeaulambo]

I agree with this.
While the camera angle can be deceptive, there are ways to get a better feel if you take the time and do the detective work.
I looked at both plays in a half dozen freeze frames and studied both plays. You can see the referee at the marker watching the play and it’s clear he’s positioned past line to gain on 4th down. On the next play he and the football are closer to a full yard away. Most often I’m not looking for excuses because often it’s a good call or a spot in our favor. Those 3rd/4th plays were both spots between 9”-15” approx. short. Twice in a row I’d call it a full yard between the 2 spots which is a crucial mistake .

What’s surprising to me is I’d have a sensor in the center of the ball. That censor has a known distance to either tip and radius to each side of the ball. The average should be calculated and applied to the Field of play. This shouldn’t take 10 seconds to alleviate. The Refs should be able to stay inside 1” shy of the tip spot with modern technology by watching the Sideline stick light at the top during any given spot. The Field Sideline Marker would be visual ti both Sidelines and most fans nearby.
Both sidelines have a field 1st down Marker that would light Green light at the top of the Stick the very millisecond it touches the sideline laser. Very similar to an electronic Stud finder mechanism.

We’re using 1952 technology in 2024 and it’s embarrassing imo. Wally and Beaver would agree

June too but she speaks jive