Studs n duds Brazil edition

[milani]

to be fair how many people were like “well at least we have Carson Wentz” (or Garner Minshew) … “we’ll be fine”. Time/opportunity for a guy to step up and create another great Packer/NFL story!

I believe the Packers felt that Love would be OK for at least half the season and by then Willis would have been able to get up to snuff. Our luck failed us. But neither Gute nor Thompson ever put much thought into the backup QB. Rodgers was drafted to eventually replace Favre and Love to replace Rodgers. When Wolf was around he had some decent backups: Brunell, Hasselbeck, Bono, Doug Pederson, and in case of emergency, Jim McMahon. And if you go way back we can realize that Lombardi does not win all 5 championships without a backup QB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I believe the Packers felt that Love would be OK for at least half the season and by then Willis would have been able to get up to snuff. Our luck failed us. But neither Gute nor Thompson ever put much thought into the backup QB. Rodgers was drafted to eventually replace Favre and Love to replace Rodgers. When Wolf was around he had some decent backups: Brunell, Hasselbeck, Bono, Doug Pederson, and in case of emergency, Jim McMahon. And if you go way back we can realize that Lombardi does not win all 5 championships without a backup QB.

Yup.

The crucial mistake by Gute was not taking care of the backup QB issue until the end of August. While I understand that he hoped that Clifford or Pratt would step up and be that guy. However, he already knew what he had in Clifford before Free agency and the draft. Putting all your eggs into a 7th round pick to fill that spot? Probably not wise.

Gute definitely got caught with his pants firmly around his ankles on this one, too bad he didn't learn by TT's mistakes that no matter how good your #1 QB is, your season may end up resting on the arm of your #2.

I'm not saying the season is over by any means, but having to start a QB with a few weeks under his belt with the playbook and the team, sure isn't the ideal situation for a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

 

[tynimiller]

Having watched the All22 now nearly two times through I'll share my Studs and Duds:

STUDS
Eric Stokes - Besides his tackling, this young man was the best corner we had on the field...now granted he wasn't lined up with AJ Brown constantly like Ja, but still. Stokes looked exceptional in change of direction, hip dropping and even reading plays/runs on the fly and despite his tackling not being good, he was attacking - which is awesome to see.
Edgerrin Cooper - I really struggle with saying stud because he saw few snaps, but it is clear he is going to be a playmaker....his over aggression is borderline an issue because I suspect his hair on fire will also give up a few big plays, but folks he is everything we wanted Quay to be...I just hope MLF and Hafley push him in to that role and not keep clinging to what Quay ought to be, and ignoring what he seems to continually confirm he is - an average off ball LB who has rare athletic traits.
Tucker Kraft - He absolutely cannot do what Musgrave can, but everything he can do he does better than Musgrave. He is TE1 IMO.
Zach Tom - One penalty but otherwise this young man I will declare it this day...about five weeks before I said I would wait till, HE IS OUR BEST OFFENSIVE LINEMAN.
Xavier McKinney - Dude was everywhere and I think I only saw one or two plays where he was out of position or the offensive scheme got him. Dude is easily our best player on the defensive side of the ball IMO...yes I mean that even over Rashan Gary. Gary is insanely special, but X is one of the best in the entire league at his position.

NOTEWORTHY - Javon Bullard...I couldn't say stud, BUT this young man is going to be very good. Nixon should never be on the field and him off the field, EVER.

DUDS
Rasheed Walker - He did absolutely put it together enough in the second half to had not been on the list but his first half was autrocious IMO.
Luke Musgrave - His blocking ability is the worst on the team for guys asked to block....he has to produce offensively to be a value right now for me.
Dontayvion Wicks - Dear lord this young man's route running is like watching a tutorial video at times on how to run routes. The turf took one chance at a catch for him...and a clear additional drop...it was a rough day for Wicks. I don't expect many of these to happen but I bet he would agree with the fact he had a dud performance.
Jordan Love - This was tough for me....but live I noticed how relative to what Love was so often last year he was off. A lot of drops (Wicks, Reed, Doubs all attributed with one, Wicks with more depending on grader) were exacerbated by the ball being off target by a pretty good margin. THIS has nothing to do with his injury, and is also more about relative to how he has shown he can play vs being an overall dud....but the fact that debate in my head happened meant he likely deserved being here...albeit at the bottom of the Dud list.

 

[milani]

Yup.

The crucial mistake by Gute was not taking care of the backup QB issue until the end of August. While I understand that he hoped that Clifford or Pratt would step up and be that guy. However, he already knew what he had in Clifford before Free agency and the draft. Putting all your eggs into a 7th round pick to fill that spot? Probably not wise.

Gute definitely got caught with his pants firmly around his ankles on this one, too bad he didn't learn by TT's mistakes that no matter how good your #1 QB is, your season may end up resting on the arm of your #2.

I'm not saying the season is over by any means, but having to start a QB with a few weeks under his belt with the playbook and the team, sure isn't the ideal situation for a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

I feel for Willis. He is going to feel lost out there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Having watched the All22 now nearly two times through I'll share my Studs and Duds:

STUDS
Eric Stokes - Besides his tackling, this young man was the best corner we had on the field...now granted he wasn't lined up with AJ Brown constantly like Ja, but still. Stokes looked exceptional in change of direction, hip dropping and even reading plays/runs on the fly and despite his tackling not being good, he was attacking - which is awesome to see.
Edgerrin Cooper - I really struggle with saying stud because he saw few snaps, but it is clear he is going to be a playmaker....his over aggression is borderline an issue because I suspect his hair on fire will also give up a few big plays, but folks he is everything we wanted Quay to be...I just hope MLF and Hafley push him in to that role and not keep clinging to what Quay ought to be, and ignoring what he seems to continually confirm he is - an average off ball LB who has rare athletic traits.
Tucker Kraft - He absolutely cannot do what Musgrave can, but everything he can do he does better than Musgrave. He is TE1 IMO.
Zach Tom - One penalty but otherwise this young man I will declare it this day...about five weeks before I said I would wait till, HE IS OUR BEST OFFENSIVE LINEMAN.
Xavier McKinney - Dude was everywhere and I think I only saw one or two plays where he was out of position or the offensive scheme got him. Dude is easily our best player on the defensive side of the ball IMO...yes I mean that even over Rashan Gary. Gary is insanely special, but X is one of the best in the entire league at his position.

NOTEWORTHY - Javon Bullard...I couldn't say stud, BUT this young man is going to be very good. Nixon should never be on the field and him off the field, EVER.

DUDS
Rasheed Walker - He did absolutely put it together enough in the second half to had not been on the list but his first half was autrocious IMO.
Luke Musgrave - His blocking ability is the worst on the team for guys asked to block....he has to produce offensively to be a value right now for me.
Dontayvion Wicks - Dear lord this young man's route running is like watching a tutorial video at times on how to run routes. The turf took one chance at a catch for him...and a clear additional drop...it was a rough day for Wicks. I don't expect many of these to happen but I bet he would agree with the fact he had a dud performance.
Jordan Love - This was tough for me....but live I noticed how relative to what Love was so often last year he was off. A lot of drops (Wicks, Reed, Doubs all attributed with one, Wicks with more depending on grader) were exacerbated by the ball being off target by a pretty good margin. THIS has nothing to do with his injury, and is also more about relative to how he has shown he can play vs being an overall dud....but the fact that debate in my head happened meant he likely deserved being here...albeit at the bottom of the Dud list.

Good break down and I hope that a lot of the issues you pointed out were due to rust. I get it, these guys have practiced together enough, that rust shouldn't be a factor, but it was and it isn't a new thing for the Packers to start seasons.

I only watched a few other games (Bears/Titans and Lions/Rams games). Those 4 teams had some rust too, but both the Lions and Rams were able to shake it off pretty quickly. The Titans and Bears were both starting young QB's, I think all 4 offenses were rusty all day.

While Love is a 4th year QB, he is just a 2nd year starter and his offense is very young/new as well. I hope the Packers rethink their preseason strategy next year and play the starters for at least a full quarter in either the 2nd or 3rd preseason game, let them shake off more of that rust.

 

[milani]

Good break down and I hope that a lot of the issues you pointed out were due to rust. I get it, these guys have practiced together enough, that rust shouldn't be a factor, but it was and it isn't a new thing for the Packers to start seasons.

I only watched a few other games (Bears/Titans and Lions/Rams games). Those 4 teams had some rust too, but both the Lions and Rams were able to shake it off pretty quickly. The Titans and Bears were both starting young QB's, I think all 4 offenses were rusty all day.

While Love is a 4th year QB, he is just a 2nd year starter and his offense is very young/new as well. I hope the Packers rethink their preseason strategy next year and play the starters for at least a full quarter in either the 2nd or 3rd preseason game, let them shake off more of that rust.

The 2 stunners for me were the Pats-Bengals and the Steelers-Falcons. Burrows and the ***** Cats put up 10 points to the Patriots. The Bengals were not just rusty. They looked decomposed. They REALLY miss Mixon.
The Falcons were supposed to be BETTER with Cousins. Not worse. Matty Ice could have done more. But that is what I love about Mike Tomlin. The Steelers never back down even without all the talent. And they never put the game on one player.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Dud - the field. It's hard to really take much away from this game with the players on both sides having as much trouble with their footing as they did on Friday.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Dud - the field. It's hard to really take much away from this game with the players on both sides having as much trouble with their footing as they did on Friday.

I don't remember if I read or heard it, maybe both, but it was only a problem to get used to it. Sounds like once players figured out what cleats to wear, there wasn't much complaining.

Bottom line, both teams had to play on it, so I really don't like hearing anyone use it as an excuse for a loss. It wasn't that it was in "terrible condition", it was that it was more slippery than some fields. One player from the Eagles said it reminded him of the grass that the Cardinals played on, so maybe that was an advantage to the Eagles, since they play once a year in Arizona.

McKinney said this:

"I mean, there were some cases where I was slipping," Packers safety Xavier McKinney said. "It was a little slippery. Different than obviously what I'm kind of used to. It's just another circumstance. Obviously, every field is going to be different. We got to be able to, no matter the circumstance, still do our jobs and do it at a high level."

 

[tynimiller]

The field is to me an unworthy note - as both teams equally were brand new to it...now if a team has been practicing on a field and such that is different design or type of turf/field hybrid I get it, they'd have a massive advantage but this was equally rough for both.

 

[Poppa San]

n, so maybe that was an advantage to the Eagles, since they play once a year in Arizona.

Why would they be playing once a year in Arizona?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Why would they be playing once a year in Arizona?

Because once a year, they all jump into their DeLorean and Hal sends them back to 2001! It's a real Space Odyssey and a big brain fart on my part.

 

[Magooch]

FWIW (I may have already mentioned this), but Corinthians Arena uses the same turf blend (Desso Grassmaster) as Lambeau does, AFAIK. Just seems like it was considerably more wet.

 

[tynimiller]

In a game where I have tons of thoughts and a few what in Sam **** moments the cake is Nixon running it out at the end….

Unless Bissacia told him to, if I was MLF that was Nixons LAST time back there for a while. Biggest bonehead move…

MLF in his presser recently made it sound VERY strongly that Nixon under no way will ever take a ball out of the endzone at 7/8 yards deep and not caught moving forward again, especially not when time is crucial and we are trying to get into hail mary territory.

His tone strongly suggested Nixon was an absolute idiot for it and I strongly suggest Bissacia and Nixon both got warned about that scenario...and the utter ignorance displayed by the decision.

 

[milani]

MLF in his presser recently made it sound VERY strongly that Nixon under no way will ever take a ball out of the endzone at 7/8 yards deep and not caught moving forward again, especially not when time is crucial and we are trying to get into hail mary territory.

His tone strongly suggested Nixon was an absolute idiot for it and I strongly suggest Bissacia and Nixon both got warned about that scenario...and the utter ignorance displayed by the decision.

I do not believe Nixon did this all on his own. I could be wrong but he has been in that situation before this. It was low % but having to go 70 yards with no timeouts and little on the clock was low % also. We saw a TD against Minnesota in 2022 and a near TD against Frisco in the 2023 playoffs. Several games on the weekend were impacted by ST. Why not us?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I do not believe Nixon did this all on his own. I could be wrong but he has been in that situation before this. It was low % but having to go 70 yards with no timeouts and little on the clock was low % also. We saw a TD against Minnesota in 2022 and a near TD against Frisco in the 2023 playoffs. Several games on the weekend were impacted by ST. Why not us?

I can see MLF being frustrated over it (the results), as it seems that many fans were too. However, unless Bisaccia and or MLF told Nixon "under these circumstances, DO NOT try to return the ball", and he completely ignored them, then yeah, he should be fined, whipped with wet noodles, given a team swirly or whatever. That said, Nixon has been doing this long enough, that one would think that Bisaccia has always allowed him to use his own judgement on when and when not to return. I will have to find MLF's comments, before I can infer much.

New rules, new lessons for returners to learn, including Bisaccia and Nixon.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

MLF in his presser recently made it sound VERY strongly that Nixon under no way will ever take a ball out of the endzone

@tynimiller

Do you have a link to this? I tried googling it and all I got was a bunch of stuff about some guy named Richard Nixon and what he likes to do with balls. His name was Tricky Dick, after all.

 

[milani]

I can see MLF being frustrated over it (the results), as it seems that many fans were too. However, unless Bisaccia and or MLF told Nixon "under these circumstances, DO NOT try to return the ball", and he completely ignored them, then yeah, he should be fined, whipped with wet noodles, given a team swirly or whatever. That said, Nixon has been doing this long enough, that one would think that Bisaccia has always allowed him to use his own judgement on when and when not to return. I will have to find MLF's comments, before I can infer much.

New rules, new lessons for returners to learn, including Bisaccia and Nixon.

I do not think the final score would have changed either way. But in light of the field position change it may have changed a few plays offensively and defensively which may have by default prevented that injurious play for Love.

 

[pacmaniac]

@tynimiller

Do you have a link to this? I tried googling it and all I got was a bunch of stuff about some guy named Richard Nixon and what he like to do with balls.

www.youtube.com/live/tha00YD504Q?t=1289s

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I do not think the final score would have changed either way. But in light of the field position change it may have changed a few plays offensively and defensively which may have by default prevented that injurious play for Love.

Yeah, the butterfly effect crossed my mind as well.

Then again, maybe if things change and they started on the 30, on the first play Love gets tackled and breaks both legs in 6 spots each.

I guess we will never know.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

www.youtube.com/live/tha00YD504Q?t=1289s

Thanks and I don't know, maybe he was covering for Bisaccia and Nixon, but he did say:

Matt: "I'm going to put that one on me and that will not happen again."

Reporter: "Why is that on you?"

Matt: "Because obviously it didn't get it clearly communicated what we wanted to get done in that situation."


Maybe Matt is taking the bullet here, maybe not, but obviously, he, Rich B and Nixon need better communication.

 

[milani]

@tynimiller

Do you have a link to this? I tried googling it and all I got was a bunch of stuff about some guy named Richard Nixon and what he likes to do with balls. His name was Tricky Dick, after all.

if Google was around back in the day of THAT Nixon we know how the search would go.

 

[Magooch]

Thanks and I don't know, maybe he was covering for Bisaccia and Nixon, but he did say:

Matt: "I'm going to put that one on me and that will not happen again."

Reporter: "Why is that on you?"

Matt: "Because obviously it didn't get it clearly communicated what we wanted to get done in that situation."


Maybe Matt is taking the bullet here, maybe not, but obviously, he, Rich B and Nixon need better communication.

I’m still pro-LaFleur overall but at this point he’s got a pretty established record of saying things like “that’s on me, it won’t happen again” with little actual change to follow. I just don’t put a ton of stock into a lot of the “strong words” given at his pressers anymore, lol.

 

[milani]

I’m still pro-LaFleur overall but at this point he’s got a pretty established record of saying things like “that’s on me, it won’t happen again” with little actual change to follow. I just don’t put a ton of stock into a lot of the “strong words” given at his pressers anymore, lol.

The first time Andy Reid came into GB after being named coach of the Chiefs he said the same thing after the Packers trounced his team.

 

[tynimiller]

Thanks and I don't know, maybe he was covering for Bisaccia and Nixon, but he did say:

Matt: "I'm going to put that one on me and that will not happen again."

Reporter: "Why is that on you?"

Matt: "Because obviously it didn't get it clearly communicated what we wanted to get done in that situation."


Maybe Matt is taking the bullet here, maybe not, but obviously, he, Rich B and Nixon need better communication.

I have a strong indication that it was one of those like "I shouldn't even have had to say anything" type deals....which I concur with. Matt takes the bullet for his staff and players a lot - which is likely why many appreciate him...but I suspect both Rich and Nixon were told something like - Okay guess I need to communicate basic football common sense LOL

 

[tynimiller]

I’m still pro-LaFleur overall but at this point he’s got a pretty established record of saying things like “that’s on me, it won’t happen again” with little actual change to follow. I just don’t put a ton of stock into a lot of the “strong words” given at his pressers anymore, lol.

So here's the thing though, what specific items are we speaking to that he has said won't happen again and then it did?

Sure coach speak will often say we weren't prepared or we didn't come in with the proper motivation or urgency and that's on me type stuff....but this was a specific action that occurred he was speaking to - I see that differently. I don't recall him speaking to a specific item in this manner and then seeing it time and time again after. I could be completely wrong so please share.