Saints studs n duds

Pokerbrat2000

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I'll piggyback on top of this. What a fantastic move by Gutekunst, that many questioned at the time.

Cox has really improved (not shocking since he should have been a Day2 draft pick) and is doing better than Smith has done over the same time span. We shed $2M in salary cap for next season and everyone seems to be happier. Gutekunst is a stud.

No big surprise that Preston Smith's stats are down with the Steelers. While he is playing in his preferred defense (3-4), he is averaging 14 fewer snaps per game with the Steelers. This season, he averaged 34 snaps per game (9 games) with the Packers, he is down to averaging just 20 snaps per game (7 games) with the Steelers.
 

Voyageur

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I'll piggyback on top of this. What a fantastic move by Gutekunst, that many questioned at the time.

Cox has really improved (not shocking since he should have been a Day2 draft pick) and is doing better than Smith has done over the same time span. We shed $2M in salary cap for next season and everyone seems to be happier. Gutekunst is a stud.
Can't argue with anything you said. I remember how a lot of people were asking why the Packers kept him around early in the season, saying Cox was wasting a roster spot that we could have filled with a talented player. I keep thinking of that old adage; "Oh ye, of little faith." It seems to ring true here.

Good coaches see most of it, and learn which buttons to push with each player, to get the best they can out of them. Gute has surprised me as a GM to be honest. I wasn't all that certain he'd be a good judge of horse flesh, but he is one of the best. It shows up constantly on the roster. Even the unpopular move to bring in Josh Jacobs, and let Aaron Jones walk was a superb decision. Josh is perfect for the system that the Packers run. He's an early game workhorse, who can expose the weaknesses on the opposition's defense.

It's possible that next year, Cox will be starting on the outside for the Packers. It's not a given yet, but he has shown improvement game by game.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Can't argue with anything you said. I remember how a lot of people were asking why the Packers kept him around early in the season, saying Cox was wasting a roster spot that we could have filled with a talented player. I keep thinking of that old adage; "Oh ye, of little faith." It seems to ring true here.

Good coaches see most of it, and learn which buttons to push with each player, to get the best they can out of them. Gute has surprised me as a GM to be honest. I wasn't all that certain he'd be a good judge of horse flesh, but he is one of the best. It shows up constantly on the roster. Even the unpopular move to bring in Josh Jacobs, and let Aaron Jones walk was a superb decision. Josh is perfect for the system that the Packers run. He's an early game workhorse, who can expose the weaknesses on the opposition's defense.

It's possible that next year, Cox will be starting on the outside for the Packers. It's not a given yet, but he has shown improvement game by game.

I was super excited when the Packers signed Cox as an UDFA in 2023. I feared that he would get poached off of our PS. Fortunately he wasn't and now we all are starting to see what he can do and the potential that he has. The kid has a ton of physical talent to play at a high level. Interesting and a bit depressing, to watch his growth, as an UDFA VS the growth of 2023 1st round pick Van Ness.
 

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I was super excited when the Packers signed Cox as an UDFA in 2023. I feared that he would get poached off of our PS. Fortunately he wasn't and now we all are starting to see what he can do and the potential that he has. The kid has a ton of physical talent to play at a high level. Interesting and a bit depressing, to watch his growth, as an UDFA VS the growth of 2023 1st round pick Van Ness.
I'm not down on Van Ness. In the Packers defensive schemes, both Van Ness and Gary will suffer when it comes to stats, because their primary job is to keep runners from getting outside, where they can make huge plays. They need to turn them in, or force them to the sideline, so the speedier DBs can come up and make the tackles. Early in the season, both were having problems with that, but over the last few games, they've been doing a great job in holding the corner. This is one of those things that you never see in stats, but rest assured, the coaches see it on film, because it lets the rest of the team do their jobs.

It's hard to see this watching a game on TV. But rest assured, the coaches see it during the week, on film, and push for these guys to maintain that outside integrity.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'm not down on Van Ness. In the Packers defensive schemes, both Van Ness and Gary will suffer when it comes to stats, because their primary job is to keep runners from getting outside, where they can make huge plays. They need to turn them in, or force them to the sideline, so the speedier DBs can come up and make the tackles. Early in the season, both were having problems with that, but over the last few games, they've been doing a great job in holding the corner. This is one of those things that you never see in stats, but rest assured, the coaches see it on film, because it lets the rest of the team do their jobs.

It's hard to see this watching a game on TV. But rest assured, the coaches see it during the week, on film, and push for these guys to maintain that outside integrity.

While I am not completely down on LVN, I don't think that to date, he has provided the Packers with what you expect out of a 2nd year first round pick. I also agree with you that there is more to a player than just a sack or big play. However, I have watched LVN on a number of run and pass plays, most of the time he is getting dominated by one offensive lineman. I have seen him appear to beat a block, only to be escorted outside by the lineman, away from where the ball is.

I hope he continues to progress, but as of today, he isn't playing at the level you expect from a guy selected 13th in the 2023 draft. All one has to do is look at many of the players selected after him, to know that the Packers could have done better with that pick.
 

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Agreed on Watson. He's too fragile to be used in exposed plays like that. Also, two things on Stokes. His reaction times have gotten horrible, and he made a lot of hip drop tackles in the past. That's a no-no, since it was outlawed. He just doesn't seem to have the upper body wrap strength, for getting guys to the ground.
For someone to call him out after he was credited with 3 solo tackles plus an assist which led or tied all the DBs on the team, this is just crazy talk.
 

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For someone to call him out after he was credited with 3 solo tackles plus an assist which led or tied all the DBs on the team, this is just crazy talk.
Stokes did have an excellent game against the Saints. Here's the top 5 PFF ratings both offense and defense. He has been relatively stable against the pass, but his run PFF is pretty bad. It doesn't show in these stats, but it's what it is. He's in the bottom 20% of the CBs in the league. I believe he's allowed 3 TDs this year, in man coverage, and I don't think any of them came against a #1 on a team, but not positive.

Top 5 offense​

1. RB Josh Jacobs: 90.4

2. RB Emanuel Wilson: 80.9

3. RT Zach Tom: 76.6

4. WR Jayden Reed: 73.1

5. RB Chris Brooks: 73.0

Jacobs forced four missed tackles, produced two runs over 10 yards, gained five first downs or touchdowns and caught all four of his targets out of the backfield. Wilson had one run over 10 yards and two broken tackles. Tom didn't allow a pressure over 28 pass-blocking snaps and was the team's high-rated run blocker. Reed caught three passes, including a contested catch, and averaged over 3.0 yards per route run. Brooks forced four missed tackles on only six carries, caught one pass and earned a terrific pass-blocking grade.

Top 5 defense​

1. DE Rashan Gary: 90.6

2. DE Brenton Cox: 88.7

3. S Zayne Anderson: 85.2

4. LB Edgerrin Cooper: 81.2

5. CB Eric Stokes: 80.6
 

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For someone to call him out after he was credited with 3 solo tackles plus an assist which led or tied all the DBs on the team, this is just crazy talk.
So we'll see how he does next game. I only remember him barely hanging on to someone on our L side. Should have been an easy tackle but the guy was getting away and would have except help finally came. And another that just really looked iffy. So we'll see. He looks kinda shy to me on the tackling and shedding a blocker.
 

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Stokes did have an excellent game against the Saints. Here's the top 5 PFF ratings both offense and defense. He has been relatively stable against the pass, but his run PFF is pretty bad. It doesn't show in these stats, but it's what it is. He's in the bottom 20% of the CBs in the league. I believe he's allowed 3 TDs this year, in man coverage, and I don't think any of them came against a #1 on a team, but not positive.

Top 5 offense​

1. RB Josh Jacobs: 90.4

2. RB Emanuel Wilson: 80.9

3. RT Zach Tom: 76.6

4. WR Jayden Reed: 73.1

5. RB Chris Brooks: 73.0

Jacobs forced four missed tackles, produced two runs over 10 yards, gained five first downs or touchdowns and caught all four of his targets out of the backfield. Wilson had one run over 10 yards and two broken tackles. Tom didn't allow a pressure over 28 pass-blocking snaps and was the team's high-rated run blocker. Reed caught three passes, including a contested catch, and averaged over 3.0 yards per route run. Brooks forced four missed tackles on only six carries, caught one pass and earned a terrific pass-blocking grade.

Top 5 defense​

1. DE Rashan Gary: 90.6

2. DE Brenton Cox: 88.7

3. S Zayne Anderson: 85.2

4. LB Edgerrin Cooper: 81.2

5. CB Eric Stokes: 80.6
At this point we have 11 wins and should finish with at least 12. Pretty good for the youngest team in the league. After Rodgers and Co. departed if you would have said we would be in the postseason the first years going forward you would have made book. It is just unfortunate that this team of all decades is in the same division with the 2 best teams in the conference. I guess it would be worse if we had to be in the AFC West the last 6 seasons with Mahommes and Andy Reid staring us down.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It is just unfortunate that this team of all decades is in the same division with the 2 best teams in the conference. I guess it would be worse if we had to be in the AFC West the last 6 seasons with Mahommes and Andy Reid staring us down.

Honestly, the only thing that changes with having the Vikings and Bears ahead of us in the standings, is the fact that we play on the road in the playoffs. We also can take a bit of solace in the fact that 3 of our 4 losses are against those 2 teams. The Packers have been a pretty decent road team this season, so that prospect doesn't really bother me. Heck, they won their last Super Bowl with all road wins. When was the last time the Packers won all of their AFC matchups, as well as all 4 of their NFC Divisional (West) matchups?

Sunday will be a good test for where the Packers are. Last year the Packers headed to Minnesota at the same point in the season and nobody was giving them a chance to win. They blew the Vikings out of their own house!

I am excited about this team and if they stay healthy, don't beat themselves with stupid penalties and turnovers, they could be finding themselves playing in New Orleans on Feb. 9th.
 

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Studs - my fantasy opponent for playing Jacobs McManus and packer D v Love and overcoming a 43 point deficit.

Duds - Saints - a team that previous to injuries was picked to be a playoff team.

Jacobs is a game changer. Win it all - with this improving and deep D we r lookin at it. Willis just gives me a confidence if Love goes down. This is again a rise. Lets finish it.
The Saints were proclaimed to be the best team in the NFL after two games this season. Things change, eh?
 

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Honestly, the only thing that changes with having the Vikings and Bears ahead of us in the standings, is the fact that we play on the road in the playoffs. We also can take a bit of solace in the fact that 3 of our 4 losses are against those 2 teams. The Packers have been a pretty decent road team this season, so that prospect doesn't really bother me. Heck, they won their last Super Bowl with all road wins. When was the last time the Packers won all of their AFC matchups, as well as all 4 of their NFC Divisional (West) matchups?

Sunday will be a good test for where the Packers are. Last year the Packers headed to Minnesota at the same point in the season and nobody was giving them a chance to win. They blew the Vikings out of their own house!

I am excited about this team and if they stay healthy, don't beat themselves with stupid penalties and turnovers, they could be finding themselves playing in New Orleans on Feb. 9th.
The only games we've lost are to teams with 3 losses or less. Everyone else has been meat. I like where this team is. No crushing injuries, young players improving. Hopefully the coaches can draw up good game plans going forward. I'm not scared of anyone out there.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The only games we've lost are to teams with 3 losses or less. Everyone else has been meat. I like where this team is. No crushing injuries, young players improving. Hopefully the coaches can draw up good game plans going forward. I'm not scared of anyone out there.
Don't get too over confident, The Packers have had their share of close victories (Colts, Rams, Texans, Jags, and Bears).

I'm keeping an eye on the Rams, who very well could be our first matchup in the playoffs. Yes, we beat them out in LA Week 5, 24-19, but only by 5 points. This is also a very different team than we faced in October. They were 1-3 at the time, had just lost to The Bears and played the Packers without Nacua, Kupp and some starting offensive lineman. The Rams have now won 5 in a row and are healthy, 1 of those 5 wins was against Buffalo.

So yes, the Packers can probably play with any team in the playoffs, but are going to have to play mistake and error free football to keep advancing. Playoff seeding will really come into play for the Packers.

I am really hoping that the Pack can leapfrog the Queens and the only way they can have a chance of doing that, is with a win today. By winning out and having the Vikings lose out (today and VS Lions), that would put the Packers into the #5 seed as the top wildcard team. Which means in the 1st round they would most likely face Atlanta or Tampa Bay. Heck, if things fell right and the 2 and 3 seeds lost in week 1 and the Packers won as the #5 seed, the Pack would host the 2nd round game.
 

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Don't get too over confident, The Packers have had their share of close victories (Colts, Rams, Texans, Jags, and Bears).

I'm keeping an eye on the Rams, who very well could be our first matchup in the playoffs. Yes, we beat them out in LA Week 5, 24-19, but only by 5 points. This is also a very different team than we faced in October. They were 1-3 at the time, had just lost to The Bears and played the Packers without Nacua, Kupp and some starting offensive lineman. The Rams have now won 5 in a row and are healthy, 1 of those 5 wins was against Buffalo.

So yes, the Packers can probably play with any team in the playoffs, but are going to have to play mistake and error free football to keep advancing. Playoff seeding will really come into play for the Packers.

I am really hoping that the Pack can leapfrog the Queens and the only way they can have a chance of doing that, is with a win today. By winning out and having the Vikings lose out (today and VS Lions), that would put the Packers into the #5 seed as the top wildcard team. Which means in the 1st round they would most likely face Atlanta or Tampa Bay. Heck, if things fell right and the 2 and 3 seeds lost in week 1 and the Packers won as the #5 seed, the Pack would host the 2nd round game.
Sitting out some of the players that are on injury status gives one the sense that the Packers may not be tanking this game but appear to be saving what they hope is their best in two weeks. They figure to face the Eagles or one of 3 others. No matter what happens today what the team does in two weeks is what counts.
 

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Don't get too over confident, The Packers have had their share of close victories (Colts, Rams, Texans, Jags, and Bears).

I'm keeping an eye on the Rams, who very well could be our first matchup in the playoffs. Yes, we beat them out in LA Week 5, 24-19, but only by 5 points. This is also a very different team than we faced in October. They were 1-3 at the time, had just lost to The Bears and played the Packers without Nacua, Kupp and some starting offensive lineman. The Rams have now won 5 in a row and are healthy, 1 of those 5 wins was against Buffalo.

So yes, the Packers can probably play with any team in the playoffs, but are going to have to play mistake and error free football to keep advancing. Playoff seeding will really come into play for the Packers.

I am really hoping that the Pack can leapfrog the Queens and the only way they can have a chance of doing that, is with a win today. By winning out and having the Vikings lose out (today and VS Lions), that would put the Packers into the #5 seed as the top wildcard team. Which means in the 1st round they would most likely face Atlanta or Tampa Bay. Heck, if things fell right and the 2 and 3 seeds lost in week 1 and the Packers won as the #5 seed, the Pack would host the 2nd round game.
Imo, what they need to do is create consistent up the middle pressure on opposing QB's. If we are able to do that we have an advantage over both Detroit and Minnesota.
 

milani

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Imo, what they need to do is create consistent up the middle pressure on opposing QB's. If we are able to do that we have an advantage over both Detroit and Minnesota.
Both of those opponents are very strong at blocking up the middle. That is why few teams have been able to do that against them.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Imo, what they need to do is create consistent up the middle pressure on opposing QB's. If we are able to do that we have an advantage over both Detroit and Minnesota.

Both of those opponents are very strong at blocking up the middle. That is why few teams have been able to do that against them.


Agree with you both. Most teams have difficulty on defense when facing a solid veteran QB, with a good stable of receivers and an OL that can keep him clean in the pocket. Throw in a solid running game and you have The Lions and The Vikings. Goff is definitely the better QB between him and Darnold and the Lions have the better RB tandem. However, one thing to watch out for with the Vikings, Darnold is a sneaky runner when he has to be.
 
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