Rodgers contract discussion

H

HardRightEdge

Guest
he said it went on the 16 books so that's why it looked like the team had a loss for 17.


the loss was a one year aberration.
No, the 2017 "bonus" relocation fees were the aberation. That jacked up the earnings for 2016; it's not an on-going revenue stream once the final payments are made.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
That's interesting as the Packers don't receive any of that money for another 1 1/2 years but according to a Press Gazette article from last year accounting rules required it to claim the income for the fiscal year ending in March 2017.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.co...report-another-year-record-revenue/417355001/
They probably use accrual accounting, not cash accounting, as corporations of any size almost always do. Under accrual, revenue is booked when it is earned, "contractually certain" might be the way to look at it, even if the cash payment is received at some later date. For example, if a company delivers a good or service the revenue and thereby the earnings are typically booked as of the date of the invoice while the cash payment on the invoice might come at a later date outside the reporting period of the invoice date. At the same time, corporations will complement their accrual reporting with a cash flow statement for comparison purposes. The Packers annual report did not do that which is highly unusual.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
They probably use accrual accounting, not cash accounting, as corporations of any size almost always do. Under accrual, revenud is booked when it is earned, "contractually certain" might be the way to look at it, even if the cash payment is received at some later date. For example, if a company delivers a good or service the revenue and thereby the earnings are typically booked as of the date of the invoice while the cash payment on the invoice might come at a later date outside the reporting period of the invoice date. At the same time, corporations will complement their accrual reporting with a cash flow statement for comparison purposes. The Packers annual report did not do that which is highly unusual.

In that case it's interesting that the Packers only reported $27 million in revenue stemming from relocation fees as it seems they will earn a total of $55 million out of it.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
In that case it's interesting that the Packers only reported $27 million in revenue stemming from relocation fees as it seems they will earn a total of $55 million out of it.
There could be a variety of reasons that the CFO would have to explain. Since the Raiders have not yet moved, not yet having "taken delivery" on the contract as it were, their fee may not yet be treated as earned in full or in part. Maybe the Rams and Chargers are not deemed fully relocated until they occupy their new stadium so a part of their contract is not deemed executed. Or perhaps this windfall is treated on a cash received basis, not accrual, since the relocation contracts are with the NFL, Inc., not the individual teams. Or perhaps there are contingencies in the contract that make the final amounts somewhat variable and are thereby deferred. It's hard to say. The NFL, Inc. surely has a cadre of CPAs and tax attorneys interpreting accounting rules and tax law that handle issues like the timing of revenue recongition which is anything but straight forward, passing their interpretations down to the teams.

We do know a couple of things.

First, the $55 million is a one time (or two times, as it were) enhancement to revenue and earnings. In trying to project future operating earnings power, it's best to look at the past trend without that money. At the same time expenses went up $44 million some of which Murphy seemed to suggest related to temporary issues like coaching and depreciation expenses. In any case, if you back out the $27 mil from the prior year, earnings went up $7 mil year over year What's odd is if you back the $27 mil out of revenue, then revenue actually went down. while revenue went up about $40 mil excluding the $27 million relocation windfall. In any event, looking forward, it's best to think of the $55 mil as a cash add to the balance sheet rather than part of the earnings trend.

Second, "Murphy said player expenses tend to be cyclical, rising and falling with new contracts." Now, we know cap is not cyclical, it's been up, up and then up for decades. He's talking about cash disbursements being cyclical which would be chiefly signing bonuses. That he would comment on it tells you the variability of of those outlays from a cash management standpoint is viewed as material. I'm sure he's thinking about the possibility of the mother of all signing bonues and it's cash outlay hitting "soon".

Third, while I'm still not finding this most recent annual report, the prior year's balance sheet showed $397 million in cash and investments. It's easy to say, for example, "Rewrite Rodgers last 2 years, give him a $100 mil signing bonus and $1 million salary in 2018, for a net additional cash outlay of $80 mil this year. However, we don't know what portion of those investments might be illiquid, have a large taxable capital gain attached to them, are earmarked for near term spending outside the football operation such as Titletown Phase II, or how much management deems prudent to hold sequestered as an emergency reserve such as for an event causing major damage to the stadium.

Fourth, perhaps none of that matters, the cash expense for Rodgers has been planned for, but like me they want to wait to see if the golden arm can still make all the throws in game action.

Or fifth, they want to see if they can win the Super Bowl this year after which they'll have established enough good will among fans to clear cap with the older star free agents let go as they move into rebuilding on the fly and Rodgers gets his money. If anybody thinks that's stupid, consider the last two share sales were done immediately after Super Bowl wins on the back of that good will.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
In any case, if you back out the $27 mil from the prior year, earnings went up $7 mil year over year. What's odd is if you back the $27 mil out of revenue, then revenue actually went down. Perhaps the he stated revenue figure backed that out already for illustration purposes, but that would be an odd apples-to-oranges presentation.

Actually the Packers reported record revenue of $454.9 million during the fiscal year that ended March 31, up 3.1% over the previous year which was the one including part of the relocation fees.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.co...7-revenue-expenses-set-new-records/771113002/
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,450
Reaction score
2,269
I’m not happy about camp starting without a new deal for Rodgers. I know he’s said he leaves that to his agent and he focuses on football, bit it’s gotta bug him. I can only speak for myself, but I expected ARod’s deal to be done within a week or two of Ryan’s. Turns out that was wishful thinking. It doesn’t help that we don’t know where the disconnect is. Seems like Rodgers is looking for a % of the cap, and I’m ok with that within reason, but the dullards at 1265 are only used to thinking one way. No matter what is said, this delay IS a distraction for Rodgers, fans, and the rest of the team. I think it could get settled in a day if Rodgers stayed out of practice, but he’s not built that way. Somewhere down the road, maybe a few years, this is gonna come back and bite the Packers. The way they dealt with Nelson and now Rodgers just doesn’t show a lot of class.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
I’m not happy about camp starting without a new deal for Rodgers. I know he’s said he leaves that to his agent and he focuses on football, bit it’s gotta bug him. I can only speak for myself, but I expected ARod’s deal to be done within a week or two of Ryan’s. Turns out that was wishful thinking. It doesn’t help that we don’t know where the disconnect is. Seems like Rodgers is looking for a % of the cap, and I’m ok with that within reason, but the dullards at 1265 are only used to thinking one way. No matter what is said, this delay IS a distraction for Rodgers, fans, and the rest of the team. I think it could get settled in a day if Rodgers stayed out of practice, but he’s not built that way. Somewhere down the road, maybe a few years, this is gonna come back and bite the Packers. The way they dealt with Nelson and now Rodgers just doesn’t show a lot of class.

In my opinion as long as Rodgers is fine with not having received an extension by now, as evidenced by not only showing up for camp but every single OTA practice as well, fans should be as well.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I’m not happy about camp starting without a new deal for Rodgers. I know he’s said he leaves that to his agent and he focuses on football, bit it’s gotta bug him. I can only speak for myself, but I expected ARod’s deal to be done within a week or two of Ryan’s. Turns out that was wishful thinking. It doesn’t help that we don’t know where the disconnect is. Seems like Rodgers is looking for a % of the cap, and I’m ok with that within reason, but the dullards at 1265 are only used to thinking one way. No matter what is said, this delay IS a distraction for Rodgers, fans, and the rest of the team. I think it could get settled in a day if Rodgers stayed out of practice, but he’s not built that way. Somewhere down the road, maybe a few years, this is gonna come back and bite the Packers. The way they dealt with Nelson and now Rodgers just doesn’t show a lot of class.
I don't know why people think this is simple or easy given all the moving parts from a multi-year perspective. Whether Rodgers is unhappy or resigned to the waiting or can block it all out, who knows.
 

Poppa San

* Team Owner *
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
13,245
Reaction score
3,057
Location
20 miles from Lambeau
The way they dealt with Nelson and now Rodgers just doesn’t show a lot of class.
"Bye Jordy, you no longer fit in our plans. We will let you go now before FA starts instead of during camp so you can do what is best for you." How is what I paraphrased classless?
but the dullards at 1265 are only used to thinking one way
Which is what? They have been as original as any other team in the league as far as contract structure. The only thing the Packer's can't do is offer partial ownership.

No matter what is said, this delay IS a distraction for Rodgers
do you have a quote that Rodgers said it is a distraction? Don't bother looking, you said no matter what was said that doesn't support your view is a lie.

the rest of the team
Waiting on a cite for this too.

and media are driving this, not anything from Rodger's camp or the Packers FO.

Somewhere down the road, maybe a few years, this is gonna come back and bite the Packers.
This could happen either way.
 

swhitset

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
4,380
Reaction score
1,259
We are talking about well over 100 million dollars that is a huge amount of money no matter what the scale you are dealing with. Sure I’d like the see a deal done, but not at any cost. Rodgers signed his current contract and there are 2 years left on it ... all this whining about respect is silly.
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
5,321
Reaction score
1,547
I’m not happy about camp starting without a new deal for Rodgers. I know he’s said he leaves that to his agent and he focuses on football, bit it’s gotta bug him. I can only speak for myself, but I expected ARod’s deal to be done within a week or two of Ryan’s. Turns out that was wishful thinking. It doesn’t help that we don’t know where the disconnect is. Seems like Rodgers is looking for a % of the cap, and I’m ok with that within reason, but the dullards at 1265 are only used to thinking one way. No matter what is said, this delay IS a distraction for Rodgers, fans, and the rest of the team. I think it could get settled in a day if Rodgers stayed out of practice, but he’s not built that way. Somewhere down the road, maybe a few years, this is gonna come back and bite the Packers. The way they dealt with Nelson and now Rodgers just doesn’t show a lot of class.

First of all are you sure it isn't Rodgers side that is holding up the deal? Unless you are advocating the Packers give him whatever he wants with no negotiation they have to have an offer on the table (or at least talked about) if its not up to his agents liking he is the one holding it up. Right now Rodgers has only one card up his sleeve and that is to hold out and he has refused to play it. It is his only leverage but as time goes by he does gain a bit. Still with 4 years of Rodgers as the QB there is no urgency.

Second it seems like the media and the fans are the only ones who are seeing a disconnect. Both sides have said they would like to get a deal done but both seem to know it will happen eventually and neither side has shown a whole lot of concern. While it may seem like Rodgers wants a percentage of the cap he has said that such a notion did not come from his camp so how it seems that this is what he wants I am not sure.

Third, unless Rodgers is lying it IS NOT a distraction for him and I have not seen any indication from anyone else on the team that it is a distraction for them either. The one part you did get right is that it IS a huge distraction for the fans but we don't matter. Maybe it could get settled in a day if Rodgers stayed out of practice but since he had repeatedly said he is not concerned why would that even be a thought?

Yes, it might come back to bite the Packers but if they gave in right now and simply gave him whatever he wants ( as you seem to want them to do) that could come back and bite them too. The only potential lack of class they may have showed Nelson was the league minimum offer. They may have been further ahead to not offer him anything and simply say we are moving on.

I wonder how many people who are worrying about not getting Rodgers' contract redone are saying that Julio Jones should just shut the hell up and play out the deal he signed.
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,450
Reaction score
2,269
In my opinion as long as Rodgers is fine with not having received an extension by now, as evidenced by not only showing up for camp but every single OTA practice as well, fans should be as well.
Well, a deal will get done eventually.
 

Heyjoe4

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Messages
7,450
Reaction score
2,269
"Bye Jordy, you no longer fit in our plans. We will let you go now before FA starts instead of during camp so you can do what is best for you." How is what I paraphrased classless?
Which is what? They have been as original as any other team in the league as far as contract structure. The only thing the Packer's can't do is offer partial ownership.

do you have a quote that Rodgers said it is a distraction? Don't bother looking, you said no matter what was said that doesn't support your view is a lie.

Waiting on a cite for this too.

and media are driving this, not anything from Rodger's camp or the Packers FO.

This could happen either way.
Well, if it’s not now, at some point it will be a distraction. Ryan’s deal was done 3 months ago and the bar is set. It seems Rodgers and his agent want a very non-traditional contract that keeps him at the top or near the top of the pay scale. There’s no reason to think he’ll regress, and maybe what he’s asking is unreasonable. But it’s naive to think that this won’t become an issue the longer it lingers. Others have suggested this may be more of a distraction to fans than to the parties involved in the contract, and there’s merit to that. I think we would all feel better, including Rodgers, if a deal is finalized sooner rather than later.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
"Bye Jordy, you no longer fit in our plans. We will let you go now before FA starts instead of during camp so you can do what is best for you." How is what I paraphrased classless?

The Packers shouldn't have lowballed Nelson by making an offer to keep him for the veteran minimum though.

Still with 4 years of Rodgers as the QB there is no urgency.

It's true the Packers could franchise tag Rodgers for another two seasons after his deal expires but it would definitely result in animosity between the team and the franchise quarterback if it were to happen.

Well, if it’s not now, at some point it will be a distraction. But it’s naive to think that this won’t become an issue the longer it lingers.

At some point the Packers and Rodgers not agreeing to an extension would definitely become an issue but in my opinion that's most likely another year away.
 

gbgary

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
3,420
Reaction score
185
Location
up the road from jerrahworld
I’m not happy about camp starting without a new deal for Rodgers.
teams seldom, if ever, extend players that have two years left on a current contract. it's just not the norm.
in a salary cap league (where the salaries for quality players, at every position, keep going up every year) i don't know why people are so excited to have the highest paid player in that league. it puts a terrible burden on that team. it leaves less money to put a good team around him. it would be great if it could be put off until after next season.
 
Last edited:

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
15,893
Reaction score
3,797
It's not like Rodgers is on the back end of a rookie contract here making 2 million dollars. He's going to take home 42 million dollars these next 2 seasons. He's not "vastly" underpaid. He's on the back end of his contract and there's no signing bonus factored in anymore. 4-5 QBs that have deals done in the last season or 2 are ahead of him, like usual. It's how contracts work with up front signing bonuses and such. There is slight risk and slight reward IMO for both sides to get a deal done now, therefore there is no real incentive to hurry to the table. Rodgers is a professional and wants to win. I have zero reservations about him not being able to focus on his game.

GB might make a slight savings by signing him now, Rodgers runs a slight risk of a career ending injury. But in the end, Rodgers is valuable enough now, is more valuable in a year or 2 with his level of play. To us or anyone else and if he gets injured again, someone else will STILL value him very highly should GB not wish to extend a contract. Rodgers can play this now and sign in a year or 2 and still make 100 million dollars over the next 5 years. or they can all rush to the table now and he still makes 100 million dollars over the next 5 years. and if they sign him to nothing and still franchise tag him and he makes 100 million dollars in the next 4 years.

where's all the angst coming from?
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
teams seldom, if ever, extend players that have two years left on a current contract. it's just not the norm.

Actually the Packers signed Rodgers with two years left on his deal the last time they extended him during the 2013 offseason. In hindsight that was a smart move by Thompson.

in a salary cap league (where the salaries for quality players, at every position, keep going up every year) i don't know why people are so excited to have the highest paid player in that league.

I would love to have Rodgers playing for significantly less money but realistically the Packers will have to make him the highest paid player as he's the best one in the league.
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
5,321
Reaction score
1,547
teams seldom, if ever, extend players that have two years left on a current contract. it's just not the norm.
in a salary cap league (where the salaries for quality players, at every position, keep going up every year) i don't know why people are so excited to have the highest paid player in that league. it puts a terrible burden on that team. it leaves less money to put a good team around him. it would be great if it could be put off until after next season.

I agree but I don't think they are excited about having the highest paid player in the league I think they are worried more about not having said player at all. They want him locked up and happy to be here.

It's not like Rodgers is on the back end of a rookie contract here making 2 million dollars. He's going to take home 42 million dollars these next 2 seasons. He's not "vastly" underpaid. He's on the back end of his contract and there's no signing bonus factored in anymore. 4-5 QBs that have deals done in the last season or 2 are ahead of him, like usual. It's how contracts work with up front signing bonuses and such. There is slight risk and slight reward IMO for both sides to get a deal done now, therefore there is no real incentive to hurry to the table. Rodgers is a professional and wants to win. I have zero reservations about him not being able to focus on his game.

GB might make a slight savings by signing him now, Rodgers runs a slight risk of a career ending injury. But in the end, Rodgers is valuable enough now, is more valuable in a year or 2 with his level of play. To us or anyone else and if he gets injured again, someone else will STILL value him very highly should GB not wish to extend a contract. Rodgers can play this now and sign in a year or 2 and still make 100 million dollars over the next 5 years. or they can all rush to the table now and he still makes 100 million dollars over the next 5 years. and if they sign him to nothing and still franchise tag him and he makes 100 million dollars in the next 4 years.

where's all the angst coming from?

He is not vastly under paid he is less overpaid.

I'm not concerned over this either. Like I said before, both sides know it will get done and I would say its 99% likely that it gets done before the franchise tag even becomes a possibility. Rodgers will get his money and the Packers will have their QB and hopefully we will stop reading about how it is such a travesty that AR is only making 20 million this year. Of course the other side will then chime in and we will have to read how it is such a travesty that AR is making 30 million a year.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Like I said before, both sides know it will get done and I would say its 99% likely that it gets done before the franchise tag even becomes a possibility.

That would be extremely smart as the Packers would have to pay Rodgers $29.5 million in 2020 as well as $35 million in '21 to play under the franchise tag as of right now. That number could even increase if another quarterback is signed to a extension resulting in him ending up in the top five paid players at the position.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
According to Ian Rapoport there has been measurable progress for a contract extension for Aaron Rodgers over the last few days.
 
Top