Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[Heyjoe4]

Coming out of Michigan, he was an athletic freak (which is an overused term, but absolutely belongs in the case of Gary), who needed a good deal of technical work-- a blue chip talent who could become a blue chip player with refinement.

A lot of Packer fans, maybe overly eager to be the first ones to the punch, wrote him off and were unwilling to give it time. We're early yet, and the Vikings and Lions both suck, but we may be seeing that one season was all he needed to begin to blossom.

That's a good, positive way to look at it. A lot of people, myself included, assume a #12 pick will be able to contribute in their first year. Last year, I don't think anyone expected the Smiths to produce so many sacks and pressures. There was no need to play Gary a lot. But he looks like a different player this year, much leaner and much quicker. So we can't change the past and may as well take a positive attitude toward the future. He's making a difference in the first two games. Here's hoping that continues. Can't have enough depth with pass rushers.

 

[bigbubbatd]

In his post game radio interview LeFluer talked about how Gary is one of the hardest workers he has ever seen and how good it feels to see him blossoming as a player. High praise from the coach. Excited with how Gary could develop

 

[Dantés]

That's a good, positive way to look at it. A lot of people, myself included, assume a #12 pick will be able to contribute in their first year. Last year, I don't think anyone expected the Smiths to produce so many sacks and pressures. There was no need to play Gary a lot. But he looks like a different player this year, much leaner and much quicker. So we can't change the past and may as well take a positive attitude toward the future. He's making a difference in the first two games. Here's hoping that continues. Can't have enough depth with pass rushers.

If you look back over the guys taken after #12 in that draft, there weren't a lot of guys who immediately took on huge roles and played at a high level.

My opinion-- fans tend to overestimate the impacts that rookies will/can have.

 

[bigbubbatd]

If you look back over the guys taken after #12 in that draft, there weren't a lot of guys who immediately took on huge roles and played at a high level.

My opinion-- fans tend to overestimate the impacts that rookies will/can have.

Completely agree. Look at this year's draft. How many rookie wrs are having a bigger impact than lazard or mvs? Not saying love was a good pick but rookie wrs don't often produce like lazard and mvs have

 

[Dantés]

Completely agree. Look at this year's draft. How many rookie wrs are having a bigger impact than lazard or mvs? Not saying love was a good pick but rookie wrs don't often produce like lazard and mvs have

Petals' propensity for a lot of 2 WR formation (12, 21, 22, 13) also coming to fruition.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Every year the Big 10 shows us that they are a step behind the elite teams in college football and then GB drafts an underachiever from Michigan, with shoulder problems?

Agree about the Big 10 being a step behind. It does seem like UW is an OL factory. You can't have enough on the OL, so why not stay close to home?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I was initially a proponent of the Gary pick pre-draft. Some had reservations over his starting up a sports agency as a distraction, Dante in particular. What put me off after the fact was discovering he scored a 9 on the Wunderlic. While we don't care much about IQ tests except for QBs and OLs, that low of a score suggests functional illiteracy at worst, a slow processor at best, or maybe the other way around.

The story was one of overcoming dyslexia to achieve a 3.8 GPA and Academic All-America at one of our finer institutions of higher learning. All I can say is he got a lot of "help". Note the Russo tweet:

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This is not a disparagement of Gary as a person. He is who he is. It does say something about the U. of M.

Anyway, what it suggests, whether a dyslexia, literacy or processing issue, the player is not likely to absorb stuff out of the playbook or off the grease board or keep up in the meeting room. Gary wouldn't be the first NFL player who had to learn by doing, interalize by repetition.

Alternatively, we could consider the case of Jason Babin, a #27 pick edge player who busted out of Houston into journeyman status. In his 7th. season he landed in Tennessee, makes the Pro Bowl, and follows that up with an 18 sack, first team All-Pro season. As the story goes, Jeff Fisher told Babin to just go get the QB and don't worry about the rest, defend the run on the way to the QB as the expression goes, one of those triumphs of the uncluttered mind.

While Gary came in needing work on hand technique, the ultimate answer may be to put him out there on passing downs, just release the hound, and then maybe over time he picks up the rest. You wouldn't want to wait until season seven to give it a try if it comes down to that.

While someone today found the above assessment from July to be funny, looking back at it I don't see any reason to change any of it. Maybe funny guy didn't read the whole thing. Beats me.

The operative concept is "learn by doing".

 

[GBkrzygrl]

The players that I'm surprised at and not in a good way are Sternberger and Savage. From my vantage point Savage wiffed more times than I could count. And it Sterberger doesn't start catching those balls he will be in Aaron's doghouse and may rarely get thrown a ball in the future. Here's hoping they improve.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Petals' propensity for a lot of 2 WR formation (12, 21, 22, 13) also coming to fruition.

So, what do you call it when Jones, Irvin or Williams breaks the huddle into a WR position?

I saw a 5 wide set out of the huddle with two TEs and a RB that you'd call 12 personnel which sounds like a running play.

We can argue till we're blue in the face, and already have if memory serves, but it's the role on the play not the jersery number. I find those personnel designations obsolete.

I do agree we are seeing more 7 man lines and 6 or 7 plus Deguara at FB in Week 1. There are fewer instances of 3 guys with a WR next to their name on the roster sheet and not just this week with Adams sitting out for a chunk of the game.

 

[Mondio]

Not obsolete at all. There’s a difference between running 5 wide with driver Cobb Nelson Jennings Jones

and running 2tes 2 wr and splitting out a rb. That’s a significant difference in player types and they can run or pass depending on defensive matchup.

Put the 5 wide we had with 5 true WR’s we were good, but we were passing. There wasn’t any scheming matchups run or pass depending on defensive alignment. Because they were always defending the pass.

 

[HardRightEdge]

and running 2tes 2 wr and splitting out a rb. That’s a significant difference in player types and they can run or pass depending on defensive matchup.

It's to induce a matchup, not reacting to a matchup. Defenses rotate in answer to the offensive personnel. You put what looks like a run package on the field to induce the defense to answer with a run package, then answer with the pass call. Jones, Ervin, Williams Tonyan--all those guys run 4.5 give or take and run WR routes. They're WRs on those plays.

There is certainly a lot of variety and a lot of motion keeping defenses off balance.

I'm very impressed with the O-Line play so far.

 

[longtimefan]

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[Deleted member 6794]

Completely agree. Look at this year's draft. How many rookie wrs are having a bigger impact than lazard or mvs? Not saying love was a good pick but rookie wrs don't often produce like lazard and mvs have

It's way too early to evaluate this year's rookie receiver class but Chase Claypool is on pace for more than 1,000 yards. I'm pretty confident in saying he would have been a better pick than Love.

 

[bigbubbatd]

It's way too early to evaluate this year's rookie receiver class but Chase Claypool is on pace for more than 1,000 yards. I'm pretty confident in saying he would have been a better pick than Love.

I never said love was a good pick. I still don't like it but what I said was a rookie wr wasn't likely to put up much for numbers on our team this year. Of the guys available when we picked I don't see one who would have been better than our number 4 and honestly our number 5 if Funchness hadn't opted out. Long term they could have been more valuable for sure just not that valuable this year unless we have injuries.

Claypool is a very interesting player though. Perfect landing spot in pittsburgh because they love to throw deep and he is a huge threat there. 84 yard td already this year

 

[HardRightEdge]

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Actually, Gary's two best plays don't show up in the stat sheet. Hand in the face of Cousins and Stafford, two picks.

 

[bigbubbatd]

If Gary continues to improve would there be anyway Preston Smith becomes expendable? He is owed a lot of money and I am not sure how bad the cap hit would be.

 

[mradtke66]

If Gary continues to improve would there be anyway Preston Smith becomes expendable? He is owed a lot of money and I am not sure how bad the cap hit would be.

I'm not sure he's worth the cut.

Yeah, he's not doing the same pass rush he did last year, but he does all the other crap work your OLBs have to do. In base, they seem to be running something closer to a 4-3 under with Z standing up.

That leaves Preston to be the defacto 4-3 SAM. He'll mug the TE, drop into coverage, and generally take one for the team. I don't know if we have someone else on the roster than can adequately fill that role. And we haven't started talking about depth.

 

[longtimefan]

I'm not sure he's worth the cut.

Yeah, he's not doing the same pass rush he did last year, but he does all the other crap work your OLBs have to do. In base, they seem to be running something closer to a 4-3 under with Z standing up.

That leaves Preston to be the defacto 4-3 SAM. He'll mug the TE, drop into coverage, and generally take one for the team. I don't know if we have someone else on the roster than can adequately fill that role. And we haven't started talking about depth.

Let’s remember this is only week 2 of no preseason

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Gary continues to improve would there be anyway Preston Smith becomes expendable? He is owed a lot of money and I am not sure how bad the cap hit would be.

Expendable as in traded? The Smith Brothers were both signed to 4 year deals, this being the second year into each of their contracts. While the total $ amounts are different, the contracts are similar in that years 1-2 are basically high dead cap hits. Preston "drops" down from a $16M hit this year, to a $8M hit next year, but I really wouldn't call that a guy you target to purge, unless he suddenly isn't playing up to that dead cap hit.

 

[Mondio]

I'm not sure he's worth the cut.

Yeah, he's not doing the same pass rush he did last year, but he does all the other crap work your OLBs have to do. In base, they seem to be running something closer to a 4-3 under with Z standing up.

That leaves Preston to be the defacto 4-3 SAM. He'll mug the TE, drop into coverage, and generally take one for the team. I don't know if we have someone else on the roster than can adequately fill that role. And we haven't started talking about depth.

I watched him some more last game, I even commented on it in the shoutbox, but PSmith was dropping into coverage a lot it seemed. I didn't count, but it seemed every time I watched him he was running away from the LOS rather than pushing towards the QB. I didn't see that from him hardly at all last year.

 

[GleefulGary]

It's way too early to evaluate this year's rookie receiver class but Chase Claypool is on pace for more than 1,000 yards. I'm pretty confident in saying he would have been a better pick than Love.

There have been two games. Two! How in the blazes can you be confident? Give it a few years man lol.

 

[GleefulGary]

I watched him some more last game, I even commented on it in the shoutbox, but PSmith was dropping into coverage a lot it seemed. I didn't count, but it seemed every time I watched him he was running away from the LOS rather than pushing towards the QB. I didn't see that from him hardly at all last year.

Someone has to replace Fackrell's role.

 

[GleefulGary]

Expendable as in traded? The Smith Brothers were both signed to 4 year deals, this being the second year into each of their contracts. While the total $ amounts are different, the contracts are similar in that years 1-2 are basically high dead cap hits. Preston "drops" down from a $16M hit this year, to a $8M hit next year, but I really wouldn't call that a guy you target to purge, unless he suddenly isn't playing up to that dead cap hit.

Gotta get the money to pay for Bakh somehow.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Expendable as in traded? The Smith Brothers were both signed to 4 year deals, this being the second year into each of their contracts. While the total $ amounts are different, the contracts are similar in that years 1-2 are basically high dead cap hits. Preston "drops" down from a $16M hit this year, to a $8M hit next year, but I really wouldn't call that a guy you target to purge, unless he suddenly isn't playing up to that dead cap hit.

Your post and mrradtke's make a lot of sense. Obviously smith is still a good player but if it came to keeping him or freeing up money that lets you sign Bahk or Aaron Jones does looking at moving on from Smith make sense? I highly doubt we would do that but was a thought i had.

 

[Dantés]

So, what do you call it when Jones, Irvin or Williams breaks the huddle into a WR position?

I saw a 5 wide set out of the huddle with two TEs and a RB that you'd call 12 personnel which sounds like a running play.

We can argue till we're blue in the face, and already have if memory serves, but it's the role on the play not the jersery number. I find those personnel designations obsolete.

I do agree we are seeing more 7 man lines and 6 or 7 plus Deguara at FB in Week 1. There are fewer instances of 3 guys with a WR next to their name on the roster sheet and not just this week with Adams sitting out for a chunk of the game.

If it was 21 personnel, I call it 21 personnel. If it was 22, I call it 22. If it was 12, I call it 12. So on and so forth.

What you say there about sounding like a running play is the point and it's why personnel groupings matter, even if you have guys moving around the formation in non-traditional ways.

If an offense is coming out in lots of 21, 22, 12, and 13, they're pushing the defense into more nickel and base. If you can do that and then split a RB or FB/HB out wide and have him make plays in the passing game, you're creating matchup advantages for yourself.

So going "5 wide" with Adams, Lazard, Deguara, Tonyan, and Jones is a lot different than running out five wide receivers, which would likely prompt the defense to play dime, or even dollar.

And if you come out in 21, 12, 22, 13, etc. and they anticipate you splitting guys out and play dime anyways, you're still in a personnel grouping that lends itself to running the ball. So you can still take advantage.

But people just need to keep straight in their minds the difference between formation and personnel grouping. 21 personnel just tells you who is out there, not where they are. 21 =/= i formation, necessarily. And these designations are anything but obsolete.

One of the pillars of this offense is finding players that can allow you to pass efficiently out of "running play" personnel groupings. Those players make it impossible for defenses to properly matchup unless they too have lots of versatile pieces. You make it so that they can't be right.