Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[Pokerbrat2000]

What it all comes down to; don't draft a project in the top-15 who has shown no first-round quality skills at the college level outside of elite athleticism. I mean, it's REALLY simple!

People say that all the time and in reality, most college players are "projects". Projects in the sense that you really cant be too sure how their college game, lifestyle, mental toughness, etc. will stack up in the NFL. Maybe top 5 non-QB's you are more than likely to get a future NFL star, but most Packer fans know that can backfire too.

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[scotscheese]

I reckon Gary could have 2 pro bowl seasons over the next two years, and some of you still would class him as a bust

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I reckon Gary could have 2 pro bowl seasons over the next two years, and some of you still would class him as a bust

Nope, but you would certainly be able to classify me as amazed. He has all the athleticism in the world to be the best OLB in the NFL; I just find it doubtful that NOW is when he starts learning the skills necessary to do so.

 

[Dblbogey]

I attempted to explain that, but lets consider another angle on the trade up. Even if Love is perceived as the best player available at that spot you're not done. You traded a 4th. round pick. You have to consider the aggreagate value of the two picks vs. the one player. As for the Favre story, if Wolf valued Favre that highly what was he doing waiting for him to drop? Was he assuming the other 31 GMs were stoopid, all with much lower assessments? That story has little credibility given trade up options. It would be equivalent to saying that Gutekunst thought Love was the #1 prospect in this draft, a ludicrous proposition but an equivalent one nonetheless, and then refusing to trade up for him.

The BPA argument becomes more problematic in a trade down. By definition, you've passed on the best player available. Gutekunst has not done that at the top of the draft. I can't recall ,

You're not picking players here. You're building a roster with the inherent trade-offs. Again, the complexity is not simply in the grading of players and the building of the board. It's a function of talents, needs and costs in the context of trade-offs.

And why would free agency be any different? Was Za'Darius Smith the "best player available" in free agency? That's not even a relevant question. Was he the best player available at 4 years / $66 mil? You're getting warmer but not there. Was Za'Darius Smith the best 4 year / $66 mil player for this roster, this team? Bingo. That's a function of need and the perceived value proposition in the context of what you are trying to accomplish as a team, and not from the perspective of just one season.

So much hostility.

 

[Dblbogey]

I reckon Gary could have 2 pro bowl seasons over the next two years, and some of you still would class him as a bust

I might, just to irritate you.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

People say that all the time and in reality, most college players are "projects". Projects in the sense that you really cant be too sure how their college game, lifestyle, mental toughness, etc. will stack up in the NFL. Maybe top 5 non-QB's you are more than likely to get a future NFL star, but most Packer fans know that can backfire too.

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Gary is not a usual "project"; I know some people like to pretend that but his production at the collegiate level was nowhere close to a first round pick. His selection in the first round was almost entirely based on athletic profile.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So much hostility.

Maybe you travel is some namby pamby circles, or no circles at all under quarantine, if you think that is "so much hostility". Nobody was even called a name! More like too much logic.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I might, just to irritate you.

Gratuitous hostility?

 

[AmishMafia]

Nope, but you would certainly be able to classify me as amazed. He has all the athleticism in the world to be the best OLB in the NFL; I just find it doubtful that NOW is when he starts learning the skills necessary to do so.

Not sure if it is missing skills or the killer attitude, but something is missing. When you are so much faster, stronger and bigger than your opponents, and you still have little production, there is an issue.

Imagine a new Ferrari losing in an auto race against a bunch of ten year old stock Priuses.

 

[scotscheese]

Nope, but you would certainly be able to classify me as amazed. He has all the athleticism in the world to be the best OLB in the NFL; I just find it doubtful that NOW is when he starts learning the skills necessary to do so.

how about more pleasantly surprised than amazed.

All I'm saying is, Gary has been sh4t on since he was picked, and it feels like he has been given very little chance by many here. I agree that a 1st rounder should pretty much be an impact in his first year, but they are probably more often not. does every baby start walking/talking etc... at the same age? no different people develop at different times. he was 4th on our depth chart, so was never likely to make huge impact. with more real game time, i would expect better development.

I've barely been here since the draft because of all the **** that was being said, and a lot of it was vitriolic.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I reckon Gary could have 2 pro bowl seasons over the next two years, and some of you still would class him as a bust

That's utter nonsense.

All I'm saying is, Gary has been sh4t on since he was picked, and it feels like he has been given very little chance by many here. I agree that a 1st rounder should pretty much be an impact in his first year, but they are probably more often not. does every baby start walking/talking etc... at the same age? no different people develop at different times. he was 4th on our depth chart, so was never likely to make huge impact. with more real game time, i would expect better development.

I would love for Gary to develop into an All-Pro player but rightfully there were concerns about his lack of production in college after the Packers selected him last year.

The fact that it was pretty obvious he would be fourth on the depth chart at outside linebacker for most of his rookie season should have resulted in Gutekunst selecting another prosoect at that point.

Unfortunately he made that mistake several times in this year's draft as well.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would love for Gary to develop into an All-Pro player but rightfully there were concerns about his lack of production in college after the Packers selected him last year.

I was initially a proponent of the Gary pick pre-draft. Some had reservations over his starting up a sports agency as a distraction, Dante in particular. What put me off after the fact was discovering he scored a 9 on the Wunderlic. While we don't care much about IQ tests except for QBs and OLs, that low of a score suggests functional illiteracy at worst, a slow processor at best, or maybe the other way around.

The story was one of overcoming dyslexia to achieve a 3.8 GPA and Academic All-America at one of our finer institutions of higher learning. All I can say is he got a lot of "help". Note the Russo tweet:

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This is not a disparagement of Gary as a person. He is who he is. It does say something about the U. of M.

Anyway, what it suggests, whether a dyslexia, literacy or processing issue, the player is not likely to absorb stuff out of the playbook or off the grease board or keep up in the meeting room. Gary wouldn't be the first NFL player who had to learn by doing, interalize by repetition.

Alternatively, we could consider the case of Jason Babin, a #27 pick edge player who busted out of Houston into journeyman status. In his 7th. season he landed in Tennessee, makes the Pro Bowl, and follows that up with an 18 sack, first team All-Pro season. As the story goes, Jeff Fisher told Babin to just go get the QB and don't worry about the rest, defend the run on the way to the QB as the expression goes, one of those triumphs of the uncluttered mind.

While Gary came in needing work on hand technique, the ultimate answer may be to put him out there on passing downs, just release the hound, and then maybe over time he picks up the rest. You wouldn't want to wait until season seven to give it a try if it comes down to that.

 

[gopkrs]

It is dated March of 2013; and who is to say it is real anyway?

 

[AmishMafia]

All I'm saying is, Gary has been sh4t on since he was picked, and it feels like he has been given very little chance by many here.

Not sure what that means. The coaches decide if he is given the chance. If he plays well, it will be acknowledged by most, if not all fans. I doubt any fan wants to see any player fail.

As far as the paper from 2013, Gary would have been 16. There is a chance he was still struggling with his dyslexia at this point and not reflective of his intelligence. He seems much smarter when he currently speaks than this writing would suggest.

Its fair to be critical of his play on the field and character issues (he doesn't have any as far as I know). But for Russo to post this and potentially embarrass Gary is pretty low IMO. Michigan should be embarrassed.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It is dated March of 2013; and who is to say it is real anyway?

A 9 on the Wonderlic says it is, or something like it.

That doesn't mean he won't become a good football player or run a successful sports agency. But it raises questions about learning ability and pace of development.

Or he could be just an athlete and not a football player at this level. We'll find out soon enough (we think). More and better snaps in year two would be a good sign. More of same and he will be moving into bust territory. A year three progression cannot be expected unless there was some progression in year two. That's where we find ourselves with Burks and Jackson.

 

[gopkrs]

A 9 on the Wonderlic says it is, or something like it.

That doesn't mean he won't become a good football player or run a successful sports agency. But it raises questions about learning ability and pace of development.

Or he could be just an athlete and not a football player at this level. We'll find out soon enough (we think). More and better snaps in year two would be a good sign. More of same and he will be moving into bust territory. A year three progression cannot be expected unless there was some progression in year two. That's where we find ourselves with Burks and Jackson.

Yeah but you were saying (or at least you were quoting a guy) that led us to believe this was like his graduating thesis.

 

[jon]

. What put me off after the fact was discovering he scored a 9 on the Wunderlic

Which I learned just now.

Many years ago the Pack drafted a running back out of Wisconsin with a similar score and similar physical gifts. A couple years and out of football, as I recall (though, mercifully, I've forgotten his name).

My hopes for Gary have dropped.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Not sure what that means. The coaches decide if he is given the chance. If he plays well, it will be acknowledged by most, if not all fans. I doubt any fan wants to see any player fail.

As far as the paper from 2013, Gary would have been 16. There is a chance he was still struggling with his dyslexia at this point and not reflective of his intelligence. He seems much smarter when he currently speaks than this writing would suggest.

Its fair to be critical of his play on the field and character issues (he doesn't have any as far as I know). But for Russo to post this and potentially embarrass Gary is pretty low IMO. Michigan should be embarrassed.

I completely agree on this. Some people feel good mocking others over things they're not good at but without knowing Gary's circumstances nobody knows what went in to that score. Additionally, if anything, it should be Michigan that is most embarrased; Michigan's job is to educate students.

 

[longtimefan]

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[Pugger]

Perhaps Gary is a late bloomer?

 

[gopkrs]

Looks fast and strong. I think he takes his responsibilities very seriously and is not simply rushing the QB on every play. e.g., holding the edge. With a little bit more/better technique in handling O linemen on the rush; he will do even better. I think he is still learning. Nice to have him especially when Kenny Clark is down. This always was a pick looking into the future a bit.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Love what Gary has down so far this season, the Packer coaches who were singing his praises during camp seem to be right. He really looked good yesterday. More important than his 1.5 sacks, was the rush he put on Stafford that ended up turning into a Sullivan pick 6 interception, padding the Packer lead to a comfortable 17 points.

I too am anxious to hear some comments about Gary, from those who never gave him much of a chance.

 

[Mondio]

i didn't specifically watch gary last game, but he jumped out on at least 3 pretty big occassions for me. the Int for a TD doesn't happen if Gary isn't putting on heavy pressure in a hurry. he and preston met at the QB with Gary getting their first IMO and there was another one where I was like, man Gary is making his presence known today. heck if I can remember it though LOL

 

[Heyjoe4]

Love what Gary has down so far this season, the Packer coaches who were singing his praises during camp seem to be right. He really looked good yesterday. More important than his 1.5 sacks, was the rush he put on Stafford that ended up turning into a Sullivan pick 6 interception, padding the Packer lead to a comfortable 17 points.

I too am anxious to hear some comments about Gary, from those who never gave him much of a chance.

Physically, he looks much different this year. Much leaner and seemingly much quicker off the snap. At any rate, he made some key contributions yesterday and last week, so let's hope that continues.

 

[Dantés]

Coming out of Michigan, he was an athletic freak (which is an overused term, but absolutely belongs in the case of Gary), who needed a good deal of technical work-- a blue chip talent who could become a blue chip player with refinement.

A lot of Packer fans, maybe overly eager to be the first ones to the punch, wrote him off and were unwilling to give it time. We're early yet, and the Vikings and Lions both suck, but we may be seeing that one season was all he needed to begin to blossom.