Packers 1st round selection, #12 overall: Rashan Gary, DE

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't know about everyone else but I find it refreshing to hear a position coach praising a first round draft pick and talking about he was "always the guy they wanted". I mean, how often does that happen?

 

[longtimefan]

I don't know about everyone else but I find it refreshing to hear a position coach praising a first round draft pick and talking about he was "always the guy they wanted". I mean, how often does that happen?

So..... Your coming around to the pick now?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So..... Your coming around to the pick now?

Nope. I still think it was a reach; I was being more sarcastic because literally EVERY team talks about how the guy the managed to draft in the first round was the guy they always wanted.

Hope I'm wrong on Gary though and that he finally puts his talent to use.

 

[GleefulGary]

Hopefully both of you are right about Gary. It might be smart to wait until he plays in meaningful games before you pat yourself on the back though.

Bruh. I'm 99% just having fun with this.

I'm not saying Gary is going to be a stud. I do think he has a relatively high floor. But he needs a lot of work!

All I said was that there were several things I saw on tape that explained his lack of sacks, that I did see disruption and pressure on tape, and I saw overall good tape. You battled me on that. And now, we have his NFL coach emphatically stating the exact same stuff I said. So yeah, I'mma clap my back.

 

[GleefulGary]

I don't know about everyone else but I find it refreshing to hear a position coach praising a first round draft pick and talking about he was "always the guy they wanted". I mean, how often does that happen?

I completely agree. Coaches are always (almost) going to say positive things.

This seemed different. Mike Smith was getting real worked up about it. I don't think that was him just saying things...to me, it looked like he really believes it.

 

[jetfixer]

I liked what Mike Smith said also, made me feel he really likes him.

 

[PackerDNA]

The more I see and hear from the coaches, the more I like them. I'm really excited about the coming season.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I completely agree. Coaches are always (almost) going to say positive things.

This seemed different. Mike Smith was getting real worked up about it. I don't think that was him just saying things...to me, it looked like he really believes it.

Out of curiousity, which coaches have you seen talk about their first round draft picks and it seemed like they really didn't believe it?

Gary is a project, I think he was a reach in the first but I'm not out here saying he's going to be a bust; just that he has a lot of work to do. So please don't take my question as a knock on Gary. My comment is more about the silliness of interviewing coaches on players that have never actually played in the NFL. Coaches are REALLY good at saying nothing of value to the media.

 

[sschind]

Out of curiousity, which coaches have you seen talk about their first round draft picks and it seemed like they really didn't believe it?

Gary is a project, I think he was a reach in the first but I'm not out here saying he's going to be a bust; just that he has a lot of work to do. So please don't take my question as a knock on Gary. My comment is more about the silliness of interviewing coaches on players that have never actually played in the NFL. Coaches are REALLY good at saying nothing of value to the media.

That's pretty much how I feel. We are at that part of the NFL season where every draft pick and every UDFA is and all star ready to set the world on fire.

 

[GleefulGary]

Out of curiousity, which coaches have you seen talk about their first round draft picks and it seemed like they really didn't believe it?

Gary is a project, I think he was a reach in the first but I'm not out here saying he's going to be a bust; just that he has a lot of work to do. So please don't take my question as a knock on Gary. My comment is more about the silliness of interviewing coaches on players that have never actually played in the NFL. Coaches are REALLY good at saying nothing of value to the media.

I've heard a lot of coachspeak.

There's a difference between saying a guy is good, saying a guy can fit a role, "we expect him to do well here" and what Mike Smith said and did.

If you can't see that, I'm not sure I can help you see it either.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not saying Gary is going to be a stud. I do think he has a relatively high floor. But he needs a lot of work!

All I said was that there were several things I saw on tape that explained his lack of sacks, that I did see disruption and pressure on tape, and I saw overall good tape. You battled me on that. And now, we have his NFL coach emphatically stating the exact same stuff I said. So yeah, I'mma clap my back.

Don't get me wrong, I have never mentioned that Gary will be a bust but just brought up that his lack of production at the college level is reason for concern. I agree that he has a high ceiling, hopefully he will be able to perform up to it.

With Gary not having played a single snap for the Packers it's a bit early to clap your back in my opinion.

 

[GleefulGary]

Don't get me wrong, I have never mentioned that Gary will be a bust but just brought up that his lack of production at the college level is reason for concern. I agree that he has a high ceiling, hopefully he will be able to perform up to it.

With Gary not having played a single snap for the Packers it's a bit early to clap your back in my opinion.

My goodness. You're smart, but you can be dense occasionally.

Last time.

I have said multiple times that I don't know how Gary will turn out and that he has a lot of work to do. I'm not prognosticating his future here, ok?

I tried to explain why he didn't have great stats to you. You essentially said those reasons were not valid reasons. So out come Mike Smith and Don Brown, who used the exact same things I did to explain his lack of sacks, and how he was productive on tape.

That, good Mr Wimm, is what I was clapping my back about. The process of evaluating. That's what I want to get right. The why's of the tape. The how's of the tape. That's what I enjoy, so you best believe when an NFL coach echoes my opinion, I'mma clap my back. This ain't about the end result, it's the process!

 

[tynimiller]

The more I think about this Gary pick the more I feel bad for the guy...and sense a little bit of a AJ Hawk type feel looking into the future. Dude could be a solid starter through his rookie and second contract but never LIGHT IT UP like many think or feel he should for his pick.

Did I have him on my pick board personally at his position? No.
Did it shock me a bit they grabbed him? Yes.
Do I think he has one of the highest ceilings of the Top 20 picks? Yes.
Does he appear to have the raw skill set to be amazing? Yes.
Has that played out in stats? No.
Has it played out in how teams approached him in past? Yes.

While he comes from a high profile school, I also think of another pick of old that many were upset about and thought we wasted the pick. Nick Collins out of Bethune Cookman. Many were highly skeptical and some even mad about us picking him, and he wasn't even a 1st round pick. Dude IMO is THE BEST safety GB has drafted from 90's on as I wasn't old enough to remember or pay attention prior to that. Now do I expect Gary to be the best player drafted by us in his position, LOL...no. I'd never assume that, however merely drawing a correlation between how he has been received.


As for coach Smith, to me he made it very clear this wasn't just a coach doing the typical praise and adoration dance EVERYONE does for a draft pick during media interviews. This was a coach that I truly believe had Gary as the best player at his position in the draft and one of the best overall. Genuine excitement oozed out of him in a way which IMO is a bit atypical when hearing coaches praise incoming draft picks.

All we can do is wait, hope and pray Gary's raw phenom level abilities translate into success on the field come Sundays. If that happens I guarantee any true Packer fan blasting him now, will gladly microwave up that crow, top it with a favorite sauce and gobble it down.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

My goodness. You're smart, but you can be dense occasionally.

Last time.

I have said multiple times that I don't know how Gary will turn out and that he has a lot of work to do. I'm not prognosticating his future here, ok?

I tried to explain why he didn't have great stats to you. You essentially said those reasons were not valid reasons. So out come Mike Smith and Don Brown, who used the exact same things I did to explain his lack of sacks, and how he was productive on tape.

That, good Mr Wimm, is what I was clapping my back about. The process of evaluating. That's what I want to get right. The why's of the tape. The how's of the tape. That's what I enjoy, so you best believe when an NFL coach echoes my opinion, I'mma clap my back. This ain't about the end result, it's the process!

Just because a coach says something to support a first round draft pick doesn't actually make what the coach said into an actual FACT. The facts of his production, here's an actual FACT: "While he has been used on stunts and as more of a “decoy” on blitzes, Gary has had plenty of one-on-one opportunities to rush the passer in his three years at Ann Arbor. When we filter out plays with no blitzes and no stunts, Gary ranks just 64th among edge defenders in the draft class with at least 100 opportunities and only 30th among those with at least 250 rushes" (via PFF).

Again, he might turn it on in Green Bay. But coaches and others who claim that his job wasn't to rush the passer are justifying the pick after the fact. It's like when coaches and fans said that BJ Raji was actually "really good" and his job wasn't to "get stats" but to "help others"...turns out BJ Raji just wasn't very good. Rashan Gary is a work in progress who has the physical abilities to be absolutely dominant. I don't get the reticence for people to just accept that the Packers rolled the dice on a player with massive upside but has never shown an ability to actually carry those physical abilities over onto the football field.

If a coach just came out and said, "He was not used correctly and we think we can unlock his potential" I would believe that. Instead we get coaches who probably just mean that but then feel the need to talk about his amazing play in college that didn't really happen.

 

[GleefulGary]

Whoa whoa whoa...

There are people that think Raji wasn't good?!

 

[tynimiller]

Whoa whoa whoa...

There are people that think Raji wasn't good?!

Yup he lost me there. Raji was at worst an above average lineman capable of contributing on any NFL roster.

 

[gopkrs]

Whoa whoa whoa...

There are people that think Raji wasn't good?!

Yeah, I did not think Rolly Polly was that good either except he had one good year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yup he lost me there. Raji was at worst an above average lineman capable of contributing on any NFL roster.

"At worst above an above average lineman" do not settle for 1 year, $1.75m deals and then take "1 year off" which then turns into 3 years because there's no interest in signing him from anyone.

Though I now better understand your position on Gary.

 

[Mondio]

"At worst above an above average lineman" do not settle for 1 year, $1.75m deals and then take "1 year off" which then turns into 3 years because there's no interest in signing him from anyone.

Though I now better understand your position on Gary.

Raji was a big part of us winning a Super Bowl. Even with his less than inspiring work ethic he was better than your average Dlineman and at times much better.

I have to edit this as apparently my memory was fuzzy, the 3+ million was the year he was injured. He signed the 1.75M after his IR season, good players coming off injuries sign contracts like that often in this league. It wasn't much difference than Mo Wilkerson, a great player with some work ethic and motivation contract that needs to prove himself again.

and I don't recall Raji ever saying he was coming back to the NFL or attempting to even garner interest. I'm pretty sure he walked away and hasn't looked back.

 

[GleefulGary]

I mean, Raji certainly tailed off at the end of his career.

But...when healthy and motivated, he was really freaking good.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I had Gary as my pick at #12, which was not popular around here, until the Packers signed Z. Smith. With the Z. Smith signing I thought Gary would be a redundancy. So, they're going longer/lighter/athletic on the nickel D-Line. No argument here. There are two key things to know about Gary:

1) Rare speed-to-power.

2) 34 1/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands: He has to learn to use them better. His tendency is to slap/chop at the OT's arms. In this game, rushing from the edge, you have to be able to extend arms, punch and push off the OT keeping him off your body.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's pretty much how I feel. We are at that part of the NFL season where every draft pick and every UDFA is and all star ready to set the world on fire.

True. We get excited over all sorts of athletes and much of the time it ends up being over calculated.

I think the excitement for Rashan is far more justified than an average draft pick or a UDFA though and that makes it much plausible he’d have better success than the vast majority of those player selections.
Combine results put his RAS score in the top 15 of all DTs going back 33 years. That puts his athletic ability in the top 1% of all DT full athletic profiles that have fully competed at the NFL Combine since 1987. That’s a remarkable stat and certainly not anywhere in the neighborhood of “typical”

Don’t believe me though.. believe Devin Bush Jr....
He obviously knows his ability far better than anyone in here IMO.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...ush-rashan-gary-michigan-football/3563701002/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I tried to explain why he didn't have great stats to you. You essentially said those reasons were not valid reasons. So out come Mike Smith and Don Brown, who used the exact same things I did to explain his lack of sacks, and how he was productive on tape.

In my opinion the reasons you presented for Gary's lack of production aren't valid because he definitely had the opportunity to put up better ones.

That, good Mr Wimm, is what I was clapping my back about. The process of evaluating. That's what I want to get right. The why's of the tape. The how's of the tape. That's what I enjoy, so you best believe when an NFL coach echoes my opinion, I'mma clap my back. This ain't about the end result, it's the process!

There's the difference, as I don't care about a position coach agreeing with my evaluation about a prospect but the performance that player actually puts on the field.

All we can do is wait, hope and pray Gary's raw phenom level abilities translate into success on the field come Sundays. If that happens I guarantee any true Packer fan blasting him now, will gladly microwave up that crow, top it with a favorite sauce and gobble it down.

I haven't seen a lot of posters blasting the Packers selection of Gary but being concerned about his lack of production at Michigan.

Whoa whoa whoa...

There are people that think Raji wasn't good?!

While Raji was dominant at times he had some seasons in which he performed at an average level only as well.

 

[GleefulGary]

In my opinion the reasons you presented for Gary's lack of production aren't valid because he definitely had the opportunity to put up better ones.



There's the difference, as I don't care about a position coach agreeing with my evaluation about a prospect but the performance that player actually puts on the field.



I haven't seen a lot of posters blasting the Packers selection of Gary but being concerned about his lack of production at Michigan.

[\QUOTE]

What it really comes down to Wimm, if you want to be completely honest, is that you're basing it all on PFF. Every bit of it. I'd be surprised if you had watched more than a minute of Gary playing, which is fine, but just be honest and say you're parroting PFF's opinion.

Me? Quite frankly, I do not give two iotas what PFF thinks of college athletes. After last year where you consistently kept up with the idea that Josh Jackson not only played press man a lot in college, but was good at it, just because PFF said so was enough for me. If those guys can say that, then they weren't watching the tape. Even I know more than that, and I'm not exactly a film savant.

So sure, PFF can say what they want. If they want to add the specific film they watched to get their analysis, I think that would be a vast improvement. Their NFL stuff is actually ok. Their college stuff is basura.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What it really comes down to Wimm, if you want to be completely honest, is that you're basing it all on PFF. Every bit of it. I'd be surprised if you had watched more than a minute of Gary playing, which is fine, but just be honest and say you're parroting PFF's opinion.

Me? Quite frankly, I do not give two iotas what PFF thinks of college athletes. After last year where you consistently kept up with the idea that Josh Jackson not only played press man a lot in college, but was good at it, just because PFF said so was enough for me. If those guys can say that, then they weren't watching the tape. Even I know more than that, and I'm not exactly a film savant.

So sure, PFF can say what they want. If they want to add the specific film they watched to get their analysis, I think that would be a vast improvement. Their NFL stuff is actually ok. Their college stuff is basura.

You're right, I haven't watched Gary, or any other Packers draft pick from this year for that matter, play.

To be honest even if I did I don't have the knowledge to make an educated guess on how his performance at Michigan would translate to the NFL.

I have read a lot of different scouting reports about Gary though and the lack of production is brought up by other draft pundits aside of PFF as well.

BTW it's absolutely fine if you don't like their analytical approach but in my opinion it's kind of strange that a poster on a forum considers himself smarter than a product that is used by all NFL teams by now.

FWIW here's what they had to say about Jackson's press coverage before last year's draft:

Jackson lined up almost exclusively at left outside corner at Iowa last season, playing a fair amount of press coverage in doing so.

I don't consider that anything to get worked up about although he struggled in his first season in the league.