King is the man....

[Do7]

I would also say that he has been far from being "The Man" and closer to being a bust.

I get it, we are Packer fans and we hope that he stays healthy and proves he was worthy of the draft pick, but until he does that, I have a really hard time saying he's much of anything. If he were to walk away from Football today or get injured and not play another down, would he be a bust?

And again he has just had the tendency to catch the injury bug. To call him a bust in just his 2nd year is beyond ignorant. You guys were doing the same thing with Devante Adams a few years back when he first came into the league because he was having the dropsies and everything, and now he's become our most reliable weapon. Most of you were calling for the guy's head. When he's on the field we're better with him than we are without him in my estimation. No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well the biggest bust will probably always be Tony Mandarich, but I digress.

King has to prove himself. And a smart betting person wouldn’t place a big wager on him. Someone referred to him as having “soft shoulders.” I don’t intend for that to sound mean, just a fact. Now maybe he heals up this year and plays lights out. We all want that to happen. But wanting something to happen and expecting something to happen are two different things.

I hope Osponge is right and can come back in January and say I told you so to all of us doubters!

And again he has just had the tendency to catch the injury bug. To call him a bust in just his 2nd year is beyond ignorant. You guys were doing the same thing with Devante Adams a few years back when he first came into the league because he was having the dropsies and everything, and now he's become our most reliable weapon. Most of you were calling for the guy's head. When he's on the field we're better with him than we are without him in my estimation. No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst.

Valid point. Adams’s first two seasons were pretty bad. Can’t call a guy a bust until he’s had a chance to prove himself. King will have that chance this year, and hopefully the third year is the charm.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

If King does stay healthy and performs to potential, that would be a bonus. He has to prove he can beat the injury bug first. But you’re right, he has all the tools otherwise. Now it’s time to produce.

As for the DL being “light” - I don’t see that as a negative. Clark and Daniels will still anchor the interior, and along with an improved OLB group, there will be a lot of opportunities for rushing from the interior, something better suited to a lighter, faster DL. Actually I think the DL is the strongest position group, at least going into camp.

And a solid rush, from inside, outside, or both, makes the job of the secondary easier. So I’m expecting more sacks, more hits and hurries, and more INTs.

I hope you are right .
And I do agree that Clark/Daniels is a great duo up front. But imo we need more of those big strong quick 320 pounders to rotate....
The trend I see is the big guys get banged up and become less effective. They don't produce at a high level when banged up, and the whole defense has shown a inability to stop good offenses. At all.... Can't get to the qb. Or stop the run, etc, when they are hurting.

Anyways. I'm glad you all think the dline is the strongest group. Because the lbs and secondary look damn good to me .

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And again he has just had the tendency to catch the injury bug. To call him a bust in just his 2nd year is beyond ignorant. You guys were doing the same thing with Devante Adams a few years back when he first came into the league because he was having the dropsies and everything, and now he's become our most reliable weapon. Most of you were calling for the guy's head. When he's on the field we're better with him than we are without him in my estimation. No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst.

Personally, I haven't called him a bust. If you want to compare notes on "beyond ignorant", give me the reasons you think some of us that have our doubts about King are being ignorant. Because I might just flip them on you really fast, if you think he is "the man".

Davante Adams didn't have chronic shoulder issues. So really nice try at trying to grasp at a potential comparison, but a big failure on your part. We might as well use that logic and say "its just a matter of time that this guy or that guy breaks out and is great, after all Davante did it".

There is a big difference between looking at things through clear vision and viewing it through green and gold tinted glasses and you seem to be wearing those glasses my friend. Even hedging at the end of your statement by saying "No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst", a clear indication that you haven't even convinced yourself of your previous posts.

My final thought.....be careful of directly calling people out here as "ignorant", its one of my biggest hot buttons. People are allowed to have opinions, especially concerning the unknown. Just because their opinion might not be the same as yours, doesn't make them ignorant.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I hope you are right .
And I do agree that Clark/Daniels is a great duo up front. But imo we need more of those big strong quick 320 pounders to rotate....
The trend I see is the big guys get banged up and become less effective. They don't produce at a high level when banged up, and the whole defense has shown a inability to stop good offenses. At all.... Can't get to the qb. Or stop the run, etc, when they are hurting.

Anyways. I'm glad you all think the dline is the strongest group. Because the lbs and secondary look damn good to me .

Good point about having more depth (big guys) behind Daniels and Clark. MLF’s system relies on having fresh bodies to substitute, and we can’t expect Daniels and Clark to play every snap, much less stay healthy.

The OLB group and secondary are as good and deep (except S) as they’ve been in years. Maybe the reverse holds up and they 1) put pressure on the QB directly or 2) through coverage, giving the DL more time to get to the QB.

But yeah, Gluten should look to add some depth for Daniels and Clark.

 

[Do7]

Personally, I haven't called him a bust. If you want to compare notes on "beyond ignorant", give me the reasons you think some of us that have our doubts about King are being ignorant. Because I might just flip them on you really fast, if you think he is "the man".

Davante Adams didn't have chronic shoulder issues. So really nice try at trying to grasp at a potential comparison, but a big failure on your part. We might as well use that logic and say "its just a matter of time that this guy or that guy breaks out and is great, after all Davante did it".

There is a big difference between looking at things through clear vision and viewing it through green and gold tinted glasses and you seem to be wearing those glasses my friend. Even hedging at the end of your statement by saying "No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst", a clear indication that you haven't even convinced yourself of your previous posts.

My final thought.....be careful of directly calling people out here as "ignorant", its one of my biggest hot buttons. People are allowed to have opinions, especially concerning the unknown. Just because their opinion might not be the same as yours, doesn't make them ignorant.

Where did I say he was the "man"? I like you Pokerbrat2000 I really do, but if you paid attention to what I said, I simply said and I quote. "When he's on the field we're better with him than we are without him in my estimation. No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst." I suggest you better pay attention next time to what I actually said rather than selectively. I stand by what I said that it's an ignorant notion for us to call this guy a bust after his second year, as it's way too early to draw that conclusion. Hence why I brought up Devante.

Now as for the Devante Adams comparison goes, no he may not have had chronic injury issues, but his performance on the field was being brought into question by multiple people on here to which they were beginning to think he was a bust. So the way I see no it's a fair comparison because while the circumstances weren't the same some of you were ready to call him a bust going in his second year, like you some of you are with King. Maybe not you, but a handful of you were. Nice try though.

Dude let's get a few things straight ok. First off I didn't call you ignorant. I said this notion of calling King a bust in his second year is ignorant. So where exactly did I call you ignorant? Now the way you interpreted what I said, that's on you. Again I like you Pokerbrat so I don't see why you'd think I'd see why you'd think that I would go out of my way and to disrespect a person like that. Even with people like Quientus and Ric Flair, I never called them names or disrespected them. I can be sarcastic yes, but I'm not a ****head. Second you've seen me debate and you've seen while I may not agree with someone's opinion, I respect it. So the fact that you ASSUMED I was calling you ignorant is baffling to me. If you're aren't sure about what someone said, I'd recommend you ask before jump to your own conclusions.

I hope we're the same page now because I wasn't calling you ignorant. -_-

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Where did I say he was the "man"? I like you Pokerbrat2000 I really do, but if you paid attention to what I said, I simply said and I quote. "When he's on the field we're better with him than we are without him in my estimation. No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst." I suggest you better pay attention next time to what I actually said rather than selectively. I stand by what I said that it's an ignorant notion for us to call this guy a bust after his second year, as it's way too early to draw that conclusion. Hence why I brought up Devante.

Now as for the Devante Adams comparison goes, no he may not have had chronic injury issues, but his performance on the field was being brought into question by multiple people on here to which they were beginning to think he was a bust. So the way I see no it's a fair comparison because while the circumstances weren't the same some of you were ready to call him a bust going in his second year, like you some of you are with King. Maybe not you, but a handful of you were. Nice try though.

Dude let's get a few things straight ok. First off I didn't call you ignorant. I said this notion of calling King a bust in his second year is ignorant. So where exactly did I call you ignorant? Now the way you interpreted what I said, that's on you. Again I like you Pokerbrat so I don't see why you'd think I'd see why you'd think that I would go out of my way and to disrespect a person like that. Even with people like Quientus and Ric Flair, I never called them names or disrespected them. I can be sarcastic yes, but I'm not a ********. Second you've seen me debate and you've seen while I may not agree with someone's opinion, I respect it. So the fact that you ASSUMED I was calling you ignorant is baffling to me. If you're aren't sure about what someone said, I'd recommend you ask before jump to your own conclusions.

I hope we're the same page now because I wasn't calling you ignorant. -_-

Your apology is excepted, but I still don't think that you understand the ramifications of quoting someones post/opinion and tagging it with "beyond ignorant". Especially, when the person you are quoting, didn't even say what you feel is ignorant thinking. That isn't exactly respecting someones opinion, which you claim you always do.

Also, in an earlier post you stated King was one of our best corners, now you seem to be back peddling and simply saying "we are better with him, than without him." Which is it?

King is one of our best corners when on the field, and one of our most physical ones at that.

Enough said.

 

[Do7]

Your apology is excepted, but I still don't think that you understand the ramifications of quoting someones post/opinion and tagging it with "beyond ignorant". Especially, when the person you are quoting, didn't even say what you feel is ignorant thinking. That isn't exactly respecting someones opinion, which you claim you always do.

Also, in an earlier post you stated King was one of our best corners, now you seem to be back peddling and simply saying "we are better with him, than without him." Which is it?



Enough said.

I was making a general statement, towards the notion of calling King a bust which again I think is ignorant, to be fair I can understand the mixup why you think I was talking to you as we were replying to one another, but again that was towards the notion, not you.

You can accept the apology although I really didn't issue one out because I feel I didn't do or say anything wrong, but rather you assumed and misinterpret what I said. Nevertheless what I WILL apologize for is if I sound like i'm being arrogant jerk because that certainly isn't my intent.

And I didn't backpedel either. I said he's one of our best corners and we're stronger with him than without him. I didn't say he was THE BEST. Big difference. See again you selectively picked out what I said. I'll demonstrate.

And again he has just had the tendency to catch the injury bug. To call him a bust in just his 2nd year is beyond ignorant. You guys were doing the same thing with Devante Adams a few years back when he first came into the league because he was having the dropsies and everything, and now he's become our most reliable weapon. Most of you were calling for the guy's head. When he's on the field we're better with him than we are without him in my estimation. No he isn't the best, but he certainly isn't the worst.

Stop it. He isn't just a guy compared to Alexander. Alexander had the better year no doubt and I think overall he's better, but King is one of our best corners when on the field, and one of our most physical ones at that.

What I find funny is that you decided to quote me on this one to make your argument, but only a portion, as I clearly stated that he wasn't THE BEST but one of the best in our core. Big Difference there bud.

I think King is one of our best corners and we're better with than without him. What's so hard to understand? I don't see how I backpedaled. Explain this to me. As I feel I'm missing something.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Let's make sure King's shoulder is healthy before we call him special.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was making a general statement, towards the notion of calling King a bust which again I think is ignorant, to be fair I can understand the mixup why you think I was talking to you as we were replying to one another, but again that was towards the notion, not you.

You can accept the apology although I really didn't issue one out because I feel I didn't do or say anything wrong, but rather you assumed and misinterpret what I said. Nevertheless what I WILL apologize for is if I sound like i'm being arrogant jerk because that certainly isn't my intent.

And I didn't backpedel either. I said he's one of our best corners and we're stronger with him than without him. I didn't say he was THE BEST. Big difference. See again you selectively picked out what I said. I'll demonstrate.





What I find funny is that you decided to quote me on this one to make your argument, but only a portion, as I clearly stated that he wasn't THE BEST but one of the best in our core. Big Difference there bud.

I think King is one of our best corners and we're better with than without him. What's so hard to understand? I don't see how I backpedaled. Explain this to me. As I feel I'm missing something.

All semantics my friend. I never quoted you as saying that you thought "he was the BEST". You are creating another straw man argument, much like your one about Davante Adams. But it is odd, IMO to say "He is one of our best AND we are better with him than without him". If he actually is one of our best, isn't the second part of that a bid redundant and obvious? Now if you said "he isn't one of our most reliable corners due to his health concerns, but we are better with him, than without him." I could get on board with that, but far be it from me to put words in your mouth.

 

[Do7]

All semantics my friend. I never quoted you as saying that you thought "he was the BEST". You are creating another straw man argument, much like your one about Davante Adams. But it is odd, IMO to say "He is one of our best AND we are better with him than without him". If he actually is one of our best, isn't the second part of that a bid redundant and obvious? Now if you said "he isn't one of our most reliable corners due to his health concerns, but we are better with him, than without him." I could get on board with that, but far be it from me to put words in your mouth.

It's not redundant when you were the one saying I was backpedaling so which one is it? Am I backpedaling or am I being redundant and obvious in regards to us being better with him than without him? Naturally his health concerns is an issue which is why I stated that we're better with him than without him. And regarding that straw argument, no i'm not. As my point was a lot of people was ready to call Devante a bust, just like they are with King. Different circumstance, but people were ready to call him a bust all the same. I don't see how that went past you as I explained earlier what I meant in regards to that comparison.

But just so we're clear. We're good now right? You know I respect you, and I like you right.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But just so we're clear. We're good now right? You know I respect you, and I like you right.

I like a good Rum and Cuban cigars, but don't go overboard with the makeup gifts.

 

[Do7]

I like a good Rum and Cuban cigars, but don't go overboard with the makeup gifts.

I'm straight edge so I don't do any of that stuff, but you can have my share when our team wins it all.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Valid point. Adams’s first two seasons were pretty bad. Can’t call a guy a bust until he’s had a chance to prove himself. King will have that chance this year, and hopefully the third year is the charm.

Good point about having more depth (big guys) behind Daniels and Clark. MLF’s system relies on having fresh bodies to substitute, and we can’t expect Daniels and Clark to play every snap, much less stay healthy.

Lowry, Adams, Z. Smith moving inside, Gary inside as well at some point, maybe even P. Smith inside. They'll round it out with another DL name or two among Lancaster, Looney, Keke or one of the other guys. Because of Z. Smith's versatility (and Gary's eventually and maybe P. Smith's) they might carry just 5 DLs as designated on the roster sheet.

Lowry's one of the more underrated players on this team; he's a lock. He took 698 defensive snaps (65.6%) last season count with Daniels missing 6 games. Comapare to Clark's 67.8%; Clark took only 23 more defensive snaps than Lowry.

Lowry's a good run defender and chipped in with 3 sacks, 5 QB hits, 5 tackles for loss and a forced fumble. He's a solid, durable player.

In 2017, when Lowry played 16 games, Clark 15 games, and Daniels 14 games, the defensive snap counts were Clark 65.2%, Daniels 59.7% and Lowry 47.0%. Petine is not wearing these guys out.

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but this is a nickel/dime defense in a nickel/dime league where those defenses are run 70-80% of the time. There are not a whole lot of snaps with 3 true DLs on the line, more against teams like to run the ball a lot, less against teams that don't.

With Smith, Gary and Smith, there will be snaps with only one DL and probably some number snaps with none. Barring injury, the 3 aforementioned players will get the lion's share of snaps. Barring injury, there won't be anybody brought in off the street.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Possibly the best case scenario for the Packers, in regards to King, he can stay healthy, they can get a full evaluation of his actual NFL skills and after he signs his second contract, he begins to make his climb to Pro Bowl Caliber.

The Packers should be extremely hesitant on offering King a lucrative second contract with his injury history though.

You're being way over dramatic. King has been far from a bust. -_-

While I agree that it's too early to consider King a bust he needs to stay healthy and perform at a higher level when on the field to not be considered one two years from now.

And I do agree that Clark/Daniels is a great duo up front. But imo we need more of those big strong quick 320 pounders to rotate....

Anyways. I'm glad you all think the dline is the strongest group. Because the lbs and secondary look damn good to me .

The game has significantly changed over the past 10 years with teams not relying on huge defensive linemen that much anymore. In my opinion the linebackers are a question mark entering this season.

The OLB group and secondary are as good and deep (except S) as they’ve been in years.

Amos and Savage seem to be a decent starting tandem at safety entering this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers should be extremely hesitant on offering King a lucrative second contract with his injury history though.

Oh I fully agree. If his contract had been up at the end of last season, I would have either let him walk or pay him on the premise that he is only going to be a part time player. I think where the Packers and many teams get in trouble, is signing contracts based on potential, one great season or by making the assumption that a player that is oft injured, won't be injured.

Which is why I think we see more and more one year "prove it" deals in the NFL.

 

[Ogsponge]

Kevin “glass” King with a hamstring injury. Don’t know the extent but they are saying they won’t know for a few days which likely means tests and possibly a more serious injury.

Ya, he is the man all right what a waste of a pick, pass on Watt and pick up this straw man and Biegel....

 

[Do7]

Kevin “glass” King with a hamstring injury. Don’t know the extent but they are saying they won’t know for a few days which likely means tests and possibly a more serious injury.

Ya, he is the man all right what a waste of a pick, pass on Watt and pick up this straw man and Biegel....

Dude get a grip! It's not even the start of the season yet. Better for this to happen now than in the season. For all we know it may just be a tweak. Seriously give the dude a break. You make it seem like he WANTS to get injured. Where was this frustration with Matthews? -_-

 

[OldSchool101]

Kevin “glass” King with a hamstring injury. Don’t know the extent but they are saying they won’t know for a few days which likely means tests and possibly a more serious injury.

Ya, he is the man all right what a waste of a pick, pass on Watt and pick up this straw man and Biegel....

Let’s wait and see. Camp and scrimmage is the time to get this stuff out of the way. We’re a long ways from the regular season where it counts.

On a brighter note, he seemed to be glued to his guys from the plays I saw family night. He gave up one big one where he just missed a deflection but it was a perfectly thrown pass in stride and he still made the tackle on a long pass. He then tumbled at full speed and got right up. I was surprised his shoulder looked fine to me.

In other news, DK Metcalf sits out with an oblique injury. At least we didn’t start with that dude!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Dude get a grip! It's not even the start of the season yet. Better for this to happen now than in the season. For all we know it may just be a tweak. Seriously give the dude a break. You make it seem like he WANTS to get injured. Where was this frustration with Matthews? -_-

I understand your wanting to be optimistic, but let me ask you, if you were placing a bet on how many snaps Kevin King will play for the Packers in 2019, how many would you bet on?

Given he has missed 17 games in 2 years and he probably came out of some of those 15 games early, that he actually did participate in, my bet would be on King taking about half the snaps he would take if he was healthy all season.

 

[Do7]

I understand your wanting to be optimistic, but let me ask you, if you were placing a bet on how many snaps Kevin King will play for the Packers in 2019, how many would you bet on?

Given he has missed 17 games in 2 years and he probably came out of some of those 15 games early, that he actually did participate in, my bet would be on King taking about half the snaps he would take if he was healthy all season.

My wager is that he will be on the field enough to help contribute for us make it to the playoffs. Plus the way I see it this is actually a good thing since it will hurt his value when it comes to resigning him and whatnot should he show potential. And again I didn't see this amount of frustration with Matthews who's *** could never stay healthy on the field.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My wager is that he will be on the field enough to help contribute for us make it to the playoffs. Plus the way I see it this is actually a good thing since it will hurt his value when it comes to resigning him and whatnot should he show potential. And again I didn't see this amount of frustration with Matthews who's *** could never stay healthy on the field.

While Clay was never the "picture of health", I think your memory of his availability is a bit skewed to the negative side. Sure he got nicked up, probably just as much as many NFL players, but not nearly to the extent that King has in the last 2 years.

http://www.nfl.com/player/claymatthews/80431/careerstats

 

[Sanguine camper]

Reports about King say his injury is bad enough that he will need additional tests. La Fleir said its isn't good. Looks like he could start the season on the PUP list. Gute's worst move was to rely on King and let Breeland walk. Other than Alexander, who on the Packers do you trust to cover a top tier receiver ? Instead of doubling down to sign Preston Smith, Gute should've signed Breeland. King is a massive bust!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Dude get a grip! It's not even the start of the season yet. Better for this to happen now than in the season. For all we know it may just be a tweak. Seriously give the dude a break. You make it seem like he WANTS to get injured. Where was this frustration with Matthews? -_-

Unfortunately King suffering another injury strongly supports the notion that he's injury-prone.

My wager is that he will be on the field enough to help contribute for us make it to the playoffs. Plus the way I see it this is actually a good thing since it will hurt his value when it comes to resigning him and whatnot should he show potential.

The Packers should be extremely hesitant to offer King any guaranteed money to re-sign him.

Reports about King say his injury is bad enough that he will need additional tests. La Fleir said its isn't good. Looks like he could start the season on the PUP list.

Teams are only allowed to place players on the PUP list before the start of training camp. As King has already participated in practices during camp the Packers could only put him on injured reserve.

 

[Mondio]

I'm not really worried about injuries until it becomes the regular season. That said, I was worried about King and staying healthy long before this happened LOL. It wouldn't have taken a lot to re-sign Breeland, but maybe he didn't want to stay. Either way, with or without King, I think we're better back there by a good margin now than we were last year and the additions up front will only help them back there too.