Keep Pettine if the D doesn't improve?

[Fredrik87]

If you were the GM and at the end of next season our defense neither improves or gets worse still showing flashes of dominance as well as a few what the heck is going on with our D games(such as every game we played in California). would you again retain Pettine?

I'm not really on either side on this but it does interest me because on the one hand we've had some games were we look like a top 5 defense as well as some were we look like a bottom 5 defense, and I'd like to know what those here think.

 

[jon]

It'll be tough to blame Pettine for 'no change' defense since he didn't the run stoppers the team needs. Also, inconsistency might get him in hot water. Otherwise, I'd think no, he's safe.

 

[Dantés]

If you were the GM and at the end of next season our defense neither improves or gets worse still showing flashes of dominance as well as a few what the heck is going on with our D games(such as every game we played in California). would you again retain Pettine?

I'm not really on either side on this but it does interest me because on the one hand we've had some games were we look like a top 5 defense as well as some were we look like a bottom 5 defense, and I'd like to know what those here think.

I think it would depend on the specific circumstances.

If the defense was comparable to 2019, but had a better showing in the playoffs, then I would think they should probably keep him.

If the defense was comparable to 2019, but got totally boat raced again when it mattered most (say, hypothetically, by the same offense), then I would think it's time to try something else.

 

[XPack]

Hard to blame Pettine as we didn't fix any of last year's problems we had in D till now. Our D is probably weaker in personnel than last year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Pettine is a decent DC but it's not like he's an above-average DC. Part of being a coordinator is developing young talent. If he can't develop some of the younger players to improve the run D, then I'd have no issues moving on. I also wouldn't have any issues keeping him. He hasn't blown me away but he also hasn't bombed. Unless the defense falls apart next season he probably deserves another year.

 

[ARPackFan]

MLF will want "his guy" on defense. If the defense does not improve over 2018 and 2019, that in my opinion look the same, then Pettine is gone.

 

[Dantés]

Hard to blame Pettine as we didn't fix any of last year's problems we had in D till now. Our D is probably weaker in personnel than last year.

I don't know about that. It's true that there haven't been a lot of investments this off-season, but there have still been a ton pretty recently. As far as personnel transitions, Martinez to Kirksey is an upgrade in both risk and talent. Martinez has been more durable, but Kirksey is a better football player. We will see if a move is forthcoming at corner. If nothing is done after losing Williams, then I would agree that they got weaker there.

 

[AmishMafia]

I guess we are just used to nobody imlroving on defense from the Capers years.

But I am here to tell ya, it doesn't have to be that way.

We have a lot of youth on defense. And it is reasonable to expect some young players to do better this coming season:

Keke and Lancaster were both raw but talented. Both have done well at times considering.

King and Sullivan have also both looked promising. Jackson looked amazing as a rookid in preseason and hasn't looked the same since. Maybe he gets through somme issues.

OLB I don't expect anything above what the smiths have done, but I would expect Gary to contribute something this season.

ILB we up graded here as Dantes pointed out, but we still have an uber talented Burx on the roster who may settle in.

It isn't unreasonable to expect 2 or 3 if these guys to take a step and have an impact on the defense's performance.

 

[McKnowledge]

I think after this season, it would be two full seasons with Pettine at the helm of the Defense with LaFleur as HC. After three seasons overall (1 w/ McCarthy), if there is not considerable improvement in the defense rankings (at least top 10), then it's time to move on.

It would be nice to get an younger coach that can bring a more innovative approach to this defense.

 

[XPack]

I don't know about that. It's true that there haven't been a lot of investments this off-season, but there have still been a ton pretty recently. As far as personnel transitions, Martinez to Kirksey is an upgrade in both risk and talent. Martinez has been more durable, but Kirksey is a better football player. We will see if a move is forthcoming at corner. If nothing is done after losing Williams, then I would agree that they got weaker there.

We are taking a gamble on a key position with a player of non-durable history.

Blake had a bit more sacks while they are comparable in assists. Compared to Blake, I think Kirksey is better and more aggressive in stopping the run but is weaker in coverage.

Which is a mixed bag at best. It would be a stretch to say we are better at ILB overall than last year, for me.

 

[melvin dangerr]

We all know that even if the players are to blame, and most of the time that’s the case, the coach will pay the price when it should be the GM for having inferior talent.

 

[Dantés]

We are taking a gamble on a key position with a player of non-durable history.

Blake had a bit more sacks while they are comparable in assists. Compared to Blake, I think Kirksey is better and more aggressive in stopping the run but is weaker in coverage.

Which is a mixed bag at best. It would be a stretch to say we are better at ILB overall than last year, for me.

There's no denying that they are taking a gamble on his health. He has finished both of the last two seasons on IR.

But I don't agree with your comparison of the two players. I would say based on what I've seen that when he's healthy, Kirksey is better in just about every area. He possesses better instincts, he's faster to the ball, he handles blocks better, and he's more reliable in coverage-- again, in my opinion.

 

[OldSchool101]

As long as GB ranks in the top #10 Defenses in scoring Pettine likely keeps his job. We’d all like to see top #5, but a Rodgers led Offense plus a top #9 scoring D (or better) should give us an adequate shot at going all the way.
If we can hold at #9 scoring D and get the Offense in that top #5-#10 range also we’d be a very well balanced opponent. My rough research tells me when combining both O and D scoring rankings, the threshold total ranking for a SB caliber team is around #15. The lower that combination off that mark then the higher the likelihood of a SB victory and vice versa.
Last year GB had a solid #9 ranked D scoring. But we loused up the threshold by sucking on Offense. A good goal this season would be top #7 scoring D and top #8 scoring Offense.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Petine doesn't have the talent at DL or ILB. Improving on last season will be very difficult. Teams with good o lines will run the ball down their throat. If the defense doesn't improve the person to can isn't Petine it would be Gute for ignoring such obvious holes. Replacing Martinez with an injury prone Kirksey doesn't fix the ILB problem.

 

[OldSchool101]

Petine doesn't have the talent at DL or ILB. Improving on last season will be very difficult. Teams with good o lines will run the ball down their throat. If the defense doesn't improve the person to can isn't Petine it would be Gute for ignoring such obvious holes. Replacing Martinez with an injury prone Kirksey doesn't fix the ILB problem.

First of all I recognize what you are saying there because I was thinking that exact thing post draft.
I was a fan of Blacklock early second round to reinforce the DL.
With that said, one thing that made sense to me shortly after the draft is what our reasoning was for never picking at DL? as I had that as a top 3 position need. After reviewing the current Roster, I surmised that Pettine would be wise to Bring Rashan Gary back into the fold and I mentioned that I’d like to see Rashan put on another 10-15 pounds (290’s range) and line up next to Kenny at 3T. lol and behold.. Pettine said just recently he was planning on using Gary more inside.

Many folks don’t know that Gary graded pretty darn good as a Run Defender for Michigan, but his knock was they just thought he needed more time to mature at the NFL level. He’s very young and raw but having last year to study and get confidence was crucial.

The main thing this does is get our best talent on the field simultaneously along with both Smiths, Kirksey and Kenny etc.. this is much more formidable because Gary takes a position of weakness to a position of relative strength and that has ripple effects down the line. It also keeps those other bigger interior guys rotating fresh. His snap count will likely be divided between #3 OLB rotational and a healthy dose of DL.

It’s not a flashy, **** position change and his sack count won’t be high.. This was near exactly the formula Michigan successfully used and his dirty work freed up those OLB and gave them increased leveraged inside. Gary floats around 280 but has the strength of a 300+ interior and the speed of a lighter DE. Gary’s trademark is not to be pigeonholed into learning a new position, but rather getting him on that damn field but absolutely at defaulting at 3T, while he learns the nuances of Edge... His low grade was top 40, get him on the field!

I don’t see a huge issue there at ILB. GB likes to use a Safety in a good % of the pie and GB has some good Safeties. The other parts of the pie will have some nice competition there between Oren, Kamal, Bolton etc.. Maybe it’s possible, just possible... Oren Burks doesn’t start the season injured for a third straight year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don’t see a huge issue there at ILB. GB likes to use a Safety in a good % of the pie and GB has some good Safeties. The other parts of the pie will have some nice competition there between Oren, Kamal, Bolton etc.. Maybe it’s possible, just possible... Oren Burks doesn’t start the season injured for a third straight year.

It seems you're way too optimistic about the talent level at inside linebacker behind Kirksey on the depth chart. It might even not be justified to consider him an upgrade over Martinez in the first place.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The only thing that bothers me about Pettine are statements he allegedly made that this is a passing league, and so the inference is that this is the D’s focus. That’s problematic given the poor performance of the run D late in the year.

That said, I don’t think Pettine is stupid. He sees the run D weaknesses as well. Let’s give him a chance to improve that aspect of the D. Gotta also keep in mind that he has to work with what Gluten has given him. I didn’t see any significant upgrades to the run D in FA or the draft. Either way, it has to be addressed. We can’t be giving up 100 plus yard games to teams like the Lions late in the season, not to mention what SF did to the team.

Let’s wait a year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The only thing that bothers me about Pettine are statements he allegedly made that this is a passing league, and so the inference is that this is the D’s focus. That’s problematic given the poor performance of the run D late in the year.

That said, I don’t think Pettine is stupid. He sees the run D weaknesses as well. Let’s give him a chance to improve that aspect of the D. Gotta also keep in mind that he has to work with what Gluten has given him. I didn’t see any significant upgrades to the run D in FA or the draft. Either way, it has to be addressed. We can’t be giving up 100 plus yard games to teams like the Lions late in the season, not to mention what SF did to the team.

I agree that the Packers need to improve their run defense but Pettine is right about the NFL being a passing league and therefore the need for the unit to mainly focus on stopping it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree that the Packers need to improve their run defense but Pettine is right about the NFL being a passing league and therefore the need for the unit to mainly focus on stopping it.

Yes he is right about that. The concern, and it manifested in the poor run D last year, is that he’s not devoting enough time to the run D. That hopefully is a problem of the past. With successful teams running and passing at about 50/50, it’s a part of the game that requires just as much attention as passing D. Anyway, I think we’ll see improvement this year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes he is right about that. The concern, and it manifested in the poor run D last year, is that he’s not devoting enough time to the run D. That hopefully is a problem of the past. With successful teams running and passing at about 50/50, it’s a part of the game that requires just as much attention as passing D. Anyway, I think we’ll see improvement this year.

Once again, I agree the Packers run defense needs to improve. There aren't a lot of teams running the ball 50% of the time in the NFL though. For example, last year only the Ravens and Niners rushed the ball more often than they threw it.

 

[gopkrs]

The way I see it is that no matter the percentages, if a team is having success running the ball in a game; they will stick with it. So we better be able to stop it. Also, most teams want to have a balanced attack and it isn't like the ratio is 3 to 1 for the pass.

 

[Mavster]

It feels as if we've been having this same discussion about the defense for the past 10 years.

I personally believe this is most likely a prove it year for Pettine. Last season we were somewhat lucky with the competition we faced, between the backup QBs and rookies. The first half of this coming season is a bit of a different story and should be a solid measuring stick of what to expect from the D.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree that the Packers need to improve their run defense but Pettine is right about the NFL being a passing league and therefore the need for the unit to mainly focus on stopping it.

It would be interesting to know what the league average is, pass% and run%. I’m guessing you could provide that! I don’t know but would think about 60% pass 40% run.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It would be interesting to know what the league average is, pass% and run%. I’m guessing you could provide that! I don’t know but would think about 60% pass 40% run.

The way I see it is that no matter the percentages, if a team is having success running the ball in a game; they will stick with it. So we better be able to stop it. Also, most teams want to have a balanced attack and it isn't like the ratio is 3 to 1 for the pass.

Well said. My guess is that the ratio is about 60/40.

 

[jon]

NFL:
57% pass
43% run

GB:
58% pass
42% run

according to https://fftoday.com/stats/19_run_pass_ratios.html