Game 13 - NY Giants - Studs and Duds

[milani]

Nothing I stated ignored the fact that the STs was arguably the worst phase or aspect of the night we just had at Metlife.

MLF concluded that we lost in each and comparisons were moot.

 

[OldSchool101]

Just to add that most of Devito's runs were right up the middle. It seems to me that Barry could have noticed that and either talk with the D line about it or have a linebacker looking for it. But Devito threw the ball really well. After a few bad throws at the start; he started hitting his receivers with spirals.

I noticed around halftime we had a LB stay put in the middle watching Devito. Of course it was too little too late as he gashed us for 7.1 per rush.

To put it into perspective if Devito did that across a full season he’d finish with 1,207 yards rushing. So yeah I’d say we didn’t properly game plan. This wasn’t a secret either or the first time in a few starts he’s done this. It’s basic math for a DC imo and Barry had no answer for him. Devito outrushed the Packers leading rusher by 18 yards

 

[BrokenArrow]

I agree it should have stood as a TD. However, they did review it and confirmed it as incomplete.

Sorry, misread that. Yes, it would have stood and should have been overturned.

Still, plenty for the guys to work on, and they will.

 

[Schultz]

And if Carlson hits that 3rd FG attempt we go into that last minute with at least a 4 point lead instead of 1.

and if the Giants kicker had made his FG then we are back where we started from.............. and if Barkley didn't fumble ............................ and so and so on......................

 

[milani]

and if the Giants kicker had made his FG then we are back where we started from.............. and if Barkley didn't fumble ............................ and so and so on......................

Lot of what ifs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I noticed around halftime we had a LB stay put in the middle watching Devito. Of course it was too little too late as he gashed us for 7.1 per rush.

To put it into perspective if Devito did that across a full season he’d finish with 1,207 yards rushing. So yeah I’d say we didn’t properly game plan. This wasn’t a secret either or the first time in a few starts he’s done this. It’s basic math for a DC imo and Barry had no answer for him. Devito outrushed the Packers leading rusher by 18 yards

If I am scheming against a Joe Barry defense, I am running a lot of QB draws, short passes to the outside and TE screens, anywhere in the first 10 yards off of the LOS.

 

[milani]

If I am scheming against a Joe Barry defense, I am running a lot of QB draws, short passes to the outside and TE screens, anywhere in the first 10 yards off of the LOS.

Similar to how Atlanta played us. Running the ball. QB taking off. And hitting the short stuff.

 

[OldSchool101]

If I am scheming against a Joe Barry defense, I am running a lot of QB draws, short passes to the outside and TE screens, anywhere in the first 10 yards off of the LOS.

You don’t get away with that stuff with too many teams’ Defenses. Although with Barry and a half way ok OL? That’s a pretty good game plan. 75 rushing ok. 100+ rushing let’s tighten it up. 150 yards? What are we doing? 175 yards? Are you awake over there? 200+? Sharpen your resume your going to need it.

I seriously think a pedestrian level DC can come in here and get in that 10-14 ranking area. We need to get one that gets us in the top 6-8 points allowed regularly. I don’t expect perfection, but can we stay in the top 10 once a decade or so ?

 

[Mavster]

Nothing I stated ignored the fact that the STs was arguably the worst phase or aspect of the night we just had at Metlife.

Brian Gutekunst apologists would rather cut their arm off than admit any blame be placed at his feet...and it is getting very old.

 

[tynimiller]

Brian Gutekunst apologists would rather cut their arm off than admit any blame be placed at his feet...and it is getting very old.

LOL if you think that's me you're sorely mistaken...

Let's revisit the conversation and stop ignoring the basic things which were stated:

The defense still stinks and the special teams is once against a disaster. Some things never change

^You stated this contradictory post. First sentence you're saying special teams is once again a disaster (which means grammatically it hasn't always), then your second sentence though says things never change. Those two things don't agree.

So…fact you said again admits they hadn’t been. Some of u live for the misery.

^I merely pointed that out here...NOTHING in my statement provided my opinion of whether ST was good or bad in the present.

The defense and special teams are bad (AGAIN). You can bury your head in the sand and avoid the statistical facts if you wish. I won't *shrug*

^LOL...this is just dumb, no head burying at all.



STs got a ton better in many phases until the NYG game. Our coverage units have been incredibly better than before Rich got here...our return game with Nixon has been one of the best in the league up until the NYG game and we switched punters due to underperforming. The one ST aspect on the 2023 season which has been bad is the kicking game, and some of that is having a rookie - now if we stick with Anders in a second year if struggles continue that'll be VERY inexcusable.

 

[tynimiller]

Let's discuss the claim however that I'm a Gute apologist though @Mavster - what actual things have I said which would make you think that?

Off memory I've been critical of Gute in a number of cases:

- I was very critical of the selection of Love at the time, and this whole board is aware of the fact the second the trade was announced I was calling Pittman's name to everyone had to be it.

- I despise that Gute, at least publically has refused to put heat on Barry...I do feel he allows MLF to be the caller on that, but either way that is something I've clearly indicated is not acceptable regardless of who it is.

- I believe Gute handled the Adams wanting out thing great - kept it quiet and respectful, but the Aaron Rodgers drama/**** storm at times I just wanted Gute to be up front and honest about it and truthfully acknowledging the Love selection was a negative catalyst in that relationship (regardless of whether it ends up having been a perfect pick or not).

- I believe trading Rasul was not in the best interest of the team at a rather volatile time with Jaire missing so much time and Rasul being one of the backbones of that defensive side of the ball. Now since I brought it up, the return for him was truthfully solid, and from a cost to return perspective crazy for a guy we just picked up off a PS to turn into a 3rd round pick does deserve a kudos.

 

[OldSchool101]

LOL if you think that's me you're sorely mistaken...

Let's revisit the conversation and stop ignoring the basic things which were stated:



^You stated this contradictory post. First sentence you're saying special teams is once again a disaster (which means grammatically it hasn't always), then your second sentence though says things never change. Those two things don't agree.



^I merely pointed that out here...NOTHING in my statement provided my opinion of whether ST was good or bad in the present.



^LOL...this is just dumb, no head burying at all.



STs got a ton better in many phases until the NYG game. Our coverage units have been incredibly better than before Rich got here...our return game with Nixon has been one of the best in the league up until the NYG game and we switched punters due to underperforming. The one ST aspect on the 2023 season which has been bad is the kicking game, and some of that is having a rookie - now if we stick with Anders in a second year if struggles continue that'll be VERY inexcusable.

Yeah you gotta give a player more than his first season. Really Carlson more Rich’s guy and for me Rich has done a good job overall since coming to GB. Sone others need to keep in mind that Rich brought in Nixon. That was an excellent find, he was pacing another All Pro season until lately, I’m not sure how 1 fumble affects that or whatever but I’ll take Nixon over maybe 28-30 teams Return men. He’s actually also an average level DB which is an added benefit.

I guess I’m saying we need to look full picture. Coaches who do a good job overall should be given more leash imo

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah you gotta give a player more than his first season. Really Carlson more Rich’s guy and for me Rich has done a good job overall since coming to GB. Sone others need to keep in mind that Rich brought in Nixon. That was an excellent find, he was pacing another All Pro season until lately, I’m not sure how 1 fumble affects that or whatever but I’ll take Nixon over maybe 28-30 teams Return men. He’s actually also an average level DB which is an added benefit.

I guess I’m saying we need to look full picture. Coaches who do a good job overall should be given more leash imo

Get your **** head out of the sand you Gute lover.... LOL

 

[OldSchool101]

Get your **** head out of the sand you Gute lover.... LOL

Well.. Gute and myself went to the same Alma Mater so I’m kinda obligated @Tyni. Although I got tossed out before he started. Brian is just a young in’ I gotta look out for him

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Brian Gutekunst apologists would rather cut their arm off than admit any blame be placed at his feet...and it is getting very old.

I haven't seen a "Brian Gutekunst apologists", what do they look like?

What I have seen are informed fans and uninformed fans, with different viewpoints of various aspects of the Packers.

Now if you view someone who tries to explain the draft process and the history of successful and unsuccessful picks, as an "apologist", then maybe it is you that needs to look inside at just how realistic your expectations on a GM are.

Gutekunst has had his share of hits and misses, but anyone wanting him or MLF fired, isn't really taking a clear look at the big picture...IN MY OPINION.

 

[Schultz]

Brian Gutekunst apologists would rather cut their arm off than admit any blame be placed at his feet...and it is getting very old.

I got it. I did chuckle a bit. Humor sometimes is lost around here. A very tough crowd.

 

[PikeBadger]

Let's discuss the claim however that I'm a Gute apologist though @Mavster - what actual things have I said which would make you think that?

Off memory I've been critical of Gute in a number of cases:

- I was very critical of the selection of Love at the time, and this whole board is aware of the fact the second the trade was announced I was calling Pittman's name to everyone had to be it.

- I despise that Gute, at least publically has refused to put heat on Barry...I do feel he allows MLF to be the caller on that, but either way that is something I've clearly indicated is not acceptable regardless of who it is.

- I believe Gute handled the Adams wanting out thing great - kept it quiet and respectful, but the Aaron Rodgers drama/**** storm at times I just wanted Gute to be up front and honest about it and truthfully acknowledging the Love selection was a negative catalyst in that relationship (regardless of whether it ends up having been a perfect pick or not).

- I believe trading Rasul was not in the best interest of the team at a rather volatile time with Jaire missing so much time and Rasul being one of the backbones of that defensive side of the ball. Now since I brought it up, the return for him was truthfully solid, and from a cost to return perspective crazy for a guy we just picked up off a PS to turn into a 3rd round pick does deserve a kudos.

You may have a point on Douglas but it could be the staff was very high on Valentine, Ballentine and also thought Stokes was ready to return.

Edit: The Love trade up pick told me one thing at the time. That he was very high on the Packers draft board and could not pass up the opportunity. Gutekunst told Rodgers personally in February 2020 that they might draft a QB. Words have meaning and Rodgers behavior became a problem in 21 and 22 though his play certainly got much sharper the two seasons after Love was picked.

 

[Pugger]

We got torn up for 200+ on the ground again. This was a game Barry 100% knew that they’d run it at us because we suck against the Run. Also it’s well known that Devito was a very mobile QB and he’s actually a good backup who’s pretty accurate in the short-medium game.

Barry gets a Dud from me because he allowed near 400 yards of opponent Offense and more than 50% of that was in the ground. We can’t continue to do that and it’s blatantly obvious he isn’t capable of fielding even a top 16 Run D when he knows it’s coming. Yes we’re top 10 area in scoring, but with the resources we’ve poured into D that’s a minimum expectation.

Especially against an offense like the NYG are right now.

Just to add that most of Devito's runs were right up the middle. It seems to me that Barry could have noticed that and either talk with the D line about it or have a linebacker looking for it. But Devito threw the ball really well. After a few bad throws at the start; he started hitting his receivers with spirals.

Did we even pressure their QB much? Any QB is going to look like Tom Brady if he has all day long to throw.

 

[Pugger]

It certainly didn't help, but they muffed a punt too. Same with the field goals. Each of us flubbed a return, each of us missed a kick.

As bad as those situations were, we were even with the Giants.

I think ST have issues league wide. How many missed kicks and long returns/penalties have we seen in so many games this year? One big thing that is effecting teams is when they moved extra points out and in effect made these attempts similar to a 33 yard FG.

 

[Half Empty]

I think ST have issues league wide. How many missed kicks and long returns/penalties have we seen in so many games this year? One big thing that is effecting teams is when they moved extra points out and in effect made these attempts similar to a 33 yard FG.

Sure, but ever since the change, it's been between 93-94%, so this year is nothing new.

 

[Pugger]

Sure, but ever since the change, it's been between 93-94%, so this year is nothing new.

Yes, but what was it before the change?

 

[longtimefan]

I have a problem with the entire strength and conditioning program. The Packers have about 50% more players than the opponent on the weekly injury report and it sure takes "questionable"players a long time to get back. Dexter Lawrence was questionable last week and he suited up for the Giants. While that's only one example, the Packers tepid response to getting players on the field is par for the course for a team that in my opinion is much to soft and passive. Alexander sticks out because he's been listed as questionable for several weeks and than fails to suit up. Jones hasn't had the same pattern but it's more of a team problem than a single player.

People been complaining about the same thing for years.

S&C coaches have been changed and you get same results

 

[Half Empty]

Yes, but what was it before the change?

Sure it was over 99%. My comment is there because is seemed like you felt the misses were relatively new. Also, that was pretty much the point in moving them back.

 

[Mavster]

Gute's defense ***** the bed yet again. Welp, maybe next year it'll be better after we add a few more high picks to that side of the ball. Oh wait, it's all Barry's fault lmao

 

[Sanguine camper]

Giants ran all over the Packers on Monday night. Today they score 6 points. Wow! Gute and Joe Barry have really created a train wreck.