Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[milani]

D-looked pretty darn good today

Even with Clark out. But it looked the Rams O line is pretty bad. And with Rypien at QB the Pack were stacking the box.

 

[Heyjoe4]

D-looked pretty darn good today

Yeah I think what's gotten lost in the recent losing streak is that the D has played really well, with yesterday being the best example, and a win, finally. In a lot of those losses, 24-28 points would have resulted in wins. I'm not really sure, just seemed like there wasn't a lot of scoring on either side.

Holding an opponent to 21 pts or less should result in wins. I admit I've been on the "fire Joe Barry" train since last season, and don't feel much different. Hard to do that when the D plays this well. Not sure what the stats say, but hey, they damn near pitched a shut out yesterday.

And this is to be expected. There is a lot of talent on the D, and rookies like Brooks have been a nice surprise. Now the O has to step it up. Yeah yesterday was a win, but 20 points won't cut it in most games. And Love is not the guy.

 

[milani]

Yeah I think what's gotten lost in the recent losing streak is that the D has played really well, with yesterday being the best example, and a win, finally. In a lot of those losses, 24-28 points would have resulted in wins. I'm not really sure, just seemed like there wasn't a lot of scoring on either side.

Holding an opponent to 21 pts or less should result in wins. I admit I've been on the "fire Joe Barry" train since last season, and don't feel much different. Hard to do that when the D plays this well. Not sure what the stats say, but hey, they damn near pitched a shut out yesterday.

And this is to be expected. There is a lot of talent on the D, and rookies like Brooks have been a nice surprise. Now the O has to step it up. Yeah yesterday was a win, but 20 points won't cut it in most games. And Love is not the guy.

They knew they had to step up. Rypien is no Stafford although he escaped several times where Stafford would not. Biggest surprise is that the Rams could not run the ball especially since Clark went out in the 2nd quarter. Their line is not what it was 5-7 years ago. We could have won several of these games already against sub par opponents but we let them slip away. This time we survived. I cringe knowing our secondary will not face Rypien every week. About time our offense stops the penalties and turnovers and start putting up more than 20 points a game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

They knew they had to step up. Rypien is no Stafford although he escaped several times where Stafford would not. Biggest surprise is that the Rams could not run the ball especially since Clark went out in the 2nd quarter. Their line is not what it was 5-7 years ago. We could have won several of these games already against sub par opponents but we let them slip away. This time we survived. I cringe knowing our secondary will not face Rypien every week. About time our offense stops the penalties and turnovers and start putting up more than 20 points a game.

Good point on the penalties. Along with Love's play, it's the other thing about this team that is not improving. I'm ok with more penalties early in the season. But it's way past that and 7 penalties in one half is just a breakdown in discipline. And how could the same lineman (I think it was Runyan, not sure) line up off sides not once, but twice?

I like MLF, seems like a decent guy. It just doesn't seem like he has control of this team. His play calling is poor (although I loved the call on Musgrave's TD) and it doesn't seem like he's respected.

Oh well can't do much now except to hope this season provides some much needed experience for a young team. On the plus side, I like the way the D is playing, especially some rookies like Brooks and Wooden. Still not a Joe Barry fan, but the D has played well most of the season.

 

[milani]

Good point on the penalties. Along with Love's play, it's the other thing about this team that is not improving. I'm ok with more penalties early in the season. But it's way past that and 7 penalties in one half is just a breakdown in discipline. And how could the same lineman (I think it was Runyan, not sure) line up off sides not once, but twice?

I like MLF, seems like a decent guy. It just doesn't seem like he has control of this team. His play calling is poor (although I loved the call on Musgrave's TD) and it doesn't seem like he's respected.

Oh well can't do much now except to hope this season provides some much needed experience for a young team. On the plus side, I like the way the D is playing, especially some rookies like Brooks and Wooden. Still not a Joe Barry fan, but the D has played well most of the season.

After our game I watched Dallas-Philly. What stunned me was that those teams committed more penalties than the Rams-Packers did. Then came the Bills-Bengals. And that one saw a lot of yellow as well. Some coaches are very good at implementing discipline. Some are very good with young players. MLF is more of an administrator or a conductor. Lombardi and Belichick had different styles but both produced disciplined teams. Both could be critical of even a TD if the play was not executed as it was drawn up. And they let people know it. MLF may need to use more one on one with players who screw up on the field. And he can do it without the public tongue lashings Lombardi used right in the middle of the game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

After our game I watched Dallas-Philly. What stunned me was that those teams committed more penalties than the Rams-Packers did. Then came the Bills-Bengals. And that one saw a lot of yellow as well. Some coaches are very good at implementing discipline. Some are very good with young players. MLF is more of an administrator or a conductor. Lombardi and Belichick had different styles but both produced disciplined teams. Both could be critical of even a TD if the play was not executed as it was drawn up. And they let people know it. MLF may need to use more one on one with players who screw up on the field. And he can do it without the public tongue lashings Lombardi used right in the middle of the game.

Your comment about Lombardi reminds me of the timeless Bud Grant of the Vikings. He wouldn't allow heated gloves on the sidelines, saying the players should be thinking about football rather than staying warm. Well maybe that's an urban legend, but Bud wasn't a lot of laughs and it's easy to believe.

I watched Philly/Dallas too. Dallas had first down on their 13 with 55 seconds and no TOs. I just couldn't believe the lack of discipline by the Eagles, the truly stupid rash of avoidable big penalties - PI, personal foul, holding, and offsides - allowing Dallas to get to the Eagles' 6 yard line - before imploding as MM teams are known to do, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

On another tangent, Prescott is just not a "money" guy. He steps out of bounce on a 2 pt conversion that should have worked easily and would have most likely sent the game to OT, he failed to spike the ball and took away a possession with 10 seconds left. Bad luck and bad decisions just seem to follow MM everywhere. No matter, Dan will never win a SB.

 

[milani]

Your comment about Lombardi reminds me of the timeless Bud Grant of the Vikings. He wouldn't allow heated gloves on the sidelines, saying the players should be thinking about football rather than staying warm. Well maybe that's an urban legend, but Bud wasn't a lot of laughs and it's easy to believe.

I watched Philly/Dallas too. Dallas had first down on their 13 with 55 seconds and no TOs. I just couldn't believe the lack of discipline by the Eagles, the truly stupid rash of avoidable big penalties - PI, personal foul, holding, and offsides - allowing Dallas to get to the Eagles' 6 yard line - before imploding as MM teams are known to do, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

On another tangent, Prescott is just not a "money" guy. He steps out of bounce on a 2 pt conversion that should have worked easily and would have most likely sent the game to OT, he failed to spike the ball and took away a possession with 10 seconds left. Bad luck and bad decisions just seem to follow MM everywhere. No matter, Dan will never win a SB.

What you said is true. Talent is great but without the mental and physical discipline it can go down the drain. Contrast that to the final drive in the Ice Bowl. When Starr got in that huddle each of the 11 players knew what they had to do in the worst of conditions.

 

[Heyjoe4]

What you said is true. Talent is great but without the mental and physical discipline it can go down the drain. Contrast that to the final drive in the Ice Bowl. When Starr got in that huddle each of the 11 players knew what they had to do in the worst of conditions.

Great example, maybe the best example there is in the NFL of 11 guys all centered on gaining one yard, and a TD, and getting the hell off the field. Jerry Kramer made the block, but every player and coach on that team had the discipline and mindset to know it was going to work before the snap. And it was literally one yard, on concrete.

That sounds like a "homer" comment, and I wasn't even in my teens but remember watching. But a lot of people all around the NFL refer to that game and that play. Probably one of the reasons Green Bay, WI is on the national map.

 

[PikeBadger]

Your comment about Lombardi reminds me of the timeless Bud Grant of the Vikings. He wouldn't allow heated gloves on the sidelines, saying the players should be thinking about football rather than staying warm. Well maybe that's an urban legend, but Bud wasn't a lot of laughs and it's easy to believe.

I watched Philly/Dallas too. Dallas had first down on their 13 with 55 seconds and no TOs. I just couldn't believe the lack of discipline by the Eagles, the truly stupid rash of avoidable big penalties - PI, personal foul, holding, and offsides - allowing Dallas to get to the Eagles' 6 yard line - before imploding as MM teams are known to do, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

On another tangent, Prescott is just not a "money" guy. He steps out of bounce on a 2 pt conversion that should have worked easily and would have most likely sent the game to OT, he failed to spike the ball and took away a possession with 10 seconds left. Bad luck and bad decisions just seem to follow MM everywhere. No matter, Dan will never win a SB.

Probably true. Bud Grant grew up in Superior, Wi

 

[Heyjoe4]

Probably true. Bud Grant grew up in Superior, Wi

I didn't know Grant grew up in Superior. That could explain his grouchy demeanor.

There was a great bit on a very old episode of SNL. Fran Tarkenton was the host, and in one skit John Belushi played Grant on the sideline of a game. Tarkenton runs off the field holding his severed arm. "Coach they tore my arm off!" Belushi/Grant hollers - "You telling me you can't play hurt?! Tape him up!" The trainers then place the severed arm on Tarkenton's chest and wrap athletic tape all round his body, securing the severed arm, and push him back on the field.

Great bit.

 

[milani]

Great example, maybe the best example there is in the NFL of 11 guys all centered on gaining one yard, and a TD, and getting the hell off the field. Jerry Kramer made the block, but every player and coach on that team had the discipline and mindset to know it was going to work before the snap. And it was literally one yard, on concrete.

That sounds like a "homer" comment, and I wasn't even in my teens but remember watching. But a lot of people all around the NFL refer to that game and that play. Probably one of the reasons Green Bay, WI is on the national map.

The entire drive was the epitome of Lombardi's Glory Days Packers. It defined them over his 9 year tenure. The Packers got 2 first quarter TDs before the field became the frozen tundra. The Cowboys got their 10 points off 2 fumbles. A fluke play in the 4th quarter put them ahead. At that point the offenses were stoned. Going 68 yards in those conditions against Doomsday was almost impossible for any team in the NFL at that time. But the Packers did.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Good point on the penalties. Along with Love's play, it's the other thing about this team that is not improving. I'm ok with more penalties early in the season. But it's way past that and 7 penalties in one half is just a breakdown in discipline. And how could the same lineman (I think it was Runyan, not sure) line up off sides not once, but twice?

Those offside penalties were pure BS, especially the second one. They showed a bad angle to "prove" he was offsides but it looked to me if they had the camera straight down the line it would have showed differently.

 

[gopkrs]

The entire drive was the epitome of Lombardi's Glory Days Packers. It defined them over his 9 year tenure. The Packers got 2 first quarter TDs before the field became the frozen tundra. The Cowboys got their 10 points off 2 fumbles. A fluke play in the 4th quarter put them ahead. At that point the offenses were stoned. Going 68 yards in those conditions against Doomsday was almost impossible for any team in the NFL at that time. But the Packers did.

I would not call the Reeves halfback pass a fluke. It was actually a great call.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Those offside penalties were pure BS, especially the second one. They showed a bad angle to "prove" he was offsides but it looked to me if they had the camera straight down the line it would have showed differently.

No doubt a better angle would help, but all the lineman were up closer than "normal".

I honestly thought that the offensive players just couldn't be further than the tip of the ball, ie. "The line of scrimmage." So that was news to me when the announcer said that the ball length is the neutral zone and only the center can have a hand in it.

I think with all the "push tushes" going on, the refs were advised to crack (pun intended) down on it, until the NFL can make a rule, in the offseason, to eliminate it.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Those offside penalties were pure BS, especially the second one. They showed a bad angle to "prove" he was offsides but it looked to me if they had the camera straight down the line it would have showed differently.

Yeah that is true. Those never should have been called. I couldn't see him lining up in the neutral zone, his helmet looked like he lined up properly (just behind the center). I never did see an angle directly on the LOS, but the broadcasters don't always have that shot unless it's close to a first down.

Still too many penalties, but those two offside calls were wrong.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Runyan committed both offside calls. The first one, probably can forgive him for, the 2nd one, he should have adjusted better after the 1st. Yeah, the refs are being a lot more picky and inconsistent, but as I said in my previous post, this is an effort to address the "Brotherly Shove", that is now a trend in both the NFL and NCAA.

Jon Runyan Jr. reveals explanation for Packers bizarre offside penalties

Green Bay Packers guard Jon Runyan Jr. was called for two bizarre offside penalties in Week 9. Now we know why.

lombardiave.com

 

[Poppa San]

I never did see an angle directly on the LOS, but the broadcasters don't always have that shot unless it's close to a first down.

I would consider 4th & inches to be close to a first down in my universe. Don't know about the one you inhabit.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Runyan committed both offside calls. The first one, probably can forgive him for, the 2nd one, he should have adjusted better after the 1st. Yeah, the refs are being a lot more picky and inconsistent, but as I said in my previous post, this is an effort to address the "Brotherly Shove", that is now a trend in both the NFL and NCAA.

Jon Runyan Jr. reveals explanation for Packers bizarre offside penalties

Green Bay Packers guard Jon Runyan Jr. was called for two bizarre offside penalties in Week 9. Now we know why.

lombardiave.com

Poker did you see a shot from the LOS on those "lined up offsides" calls? The broadcasters usually have one shot from that angle when it's close to the first down marker. I just don't recall seeing one.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I would consider 4th & inches to be close to a first down in my universe. Don't know about the one you inhabit.

Yeah here on Alpha Centauri the distance is too great to detect an OLineman lining up offsides, even if there is a camera on the LOS. Our technology is just not as advanced as what you have on Earth.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Poker did you see a shot from the LOS on those "lined up offsides" calls? The broadcasters usually have one shot from that angle when it's close to the first down marker. I just don't recall seeing one.

I looked at the play a few times and I agree with the call. Here is a screenshot. I put an arrow on Runyan's hands. Which I think are in the neutral zone (between the 2 tips of the ball). That said, look up from his hands, there us no doubt in my mind that his helmet is even further forward. Also, Reed's foot is in the neutral zone.

So yes, the refs got it right, now they just need to call it consistently.

Maybe the networks will now widen that blue line to not just show the LOS, but to include the neutral zone. I'd like to see a wide red line, to show the neutral zone and a solid, much thinner black line inside of it, to indicate the LOS.

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[milani]

Those offside penalties were pure BS, especially the second one. They showed a bad angle to "prove" he was offsides but it looked to me if they had the camera straight down the line it would have showed differently.

I would ask how many times this has been called across the league so far this season.

Yeah that is true. Those never should have been called. I couldn't see him lining up in the neutral zone, his helmet looked like he lined up properly (just behind the center). I never did see an angle directly on the LOS, but the broadcasters don't always have that shot unless it's close to a first down.

Still too many penalties, but those two offside calls were wrong.

They do not call that for the last 100 years. But suddenly November 5, 2023 it becomes an epic spectacle. Go figure.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I looked at the play a few times and I agree with the call. Here is a screenshot. I put an arrow on Runyan's hands. Which I think are in the neutral zone (between the 2 tips of the ball). That said, look up from his hands, there us no doubt in my mind that his helmet is even further forward. Also, Reed's foot is in the neutral zone.

So yes, the refs got it right, now they just need to call it consistently.

Maybe the networks will now widen that blue line to not just show the LOS, but to include the neutral zone. I'd like to see a wide red line, to show the neutral zone and a solid, much thinner black line inside of it, to indicate the LOS.

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Thanks. Reed's foot is at least as far forward as Runyan's hand, so there appear to be multiple violations from this view.

And look at where the LG and LT are lined up. Their hands aren't visible. That might be the angle of the shot, but I don't think so.

 

[El Guapo]

I didn't know Grant grew up in Superior. That could explain his grouchy demeanor.

There was a great bit on a very old episode of SNL. Fran Tarkenton was the host, and in one skit John Belushi played Grant on the sideline of a game. Tarkenton runs off the field holding his severed arm. "Coach they tore my arm off!" Belushi/Grant hollers - "You telling me you can't play hurt?! Tape him up!" The trainers then place the severed arm on Tarkenton's chest and wrap athletic tape all round his body, securing the severed arm, and push him back on the field.

Great bit.

 

[El Guapo]

I didn't know Grant grew up in Superior. That could explain his grouchy demeanor.

There was a great bit on a very old episode of SNL. Fran Tarkenton was the host, and in one skit John Belushi played Grant on the sideline of a game. Tarkenton runs off the field holding his severed arm. "Coach they tore my arm off!" Belushi/Grant hollers - "You telling me you can't play hurt?! Tape him up!" The trainers then place the severed arm on Tarkenton's chest and wrap athletic tape all round his body, securing the severed arm, and push him back on the field.

Great bit.

Good memory, although it was Dan Aykroyd as the injured player for the Vikings:

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[Heyjoe4]

I would ask how many times this has been called across the league so far this season.

They do not call that for the last 100 years. But suddenly November 5, 2023 it becomes an epic spectacle. Go figure.

Hmmm, after looking at the shot posted by Poker, it looks like Runyan and Reed are in the neutral zone.