Do Packer Forum members/fans want AR to leave?

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd say there is a good chance he broke it on this play....ouch!

 

[Half Empty]

Clay Matthews

1/3 of Clay Matthews?

 

[AKCheese]

I'm guessing that its an on again off again issue and probably both physical and mental as well. We have all had injuries in our lives and some days they feel pretty good and the next day, not so good.

As far as altering the playbook, it seems they haven't a lot, but I do think they throw way too many WR screens.


I think there would be a handful of teams interested in Rodgers and willing to pay quite a bit for him as well. Seems like the whole philosophy of the NFL has shifted to a "win now, at all costs", while the window is open." Teams that feel like they are just a solid QB away from a Superbowl, like the Browns, Jets, 49'ers., Seahawks, Colts, etc. might get involved in a Rodger Sweepstakes. If Rodgers broken thumb is to blame for the hiccup this year, that will make it even more enticing. Finally, his contract would really favor his new team. Given the fact that the Packers will be picking up most of his upfront money, his new team would be getting Rodgers at a very reduced rate.

The Packers would probably have to wait to trade Rodgers after June 1st, so that they can spread the cap hit out over 2 seasons, but I think this might be there last chance to trade Rodgers and get anything of value for him. Also, it gives the Packers a fresh start and Rodgers one as well.

Not EXACTLY clear what the cap hit would be after June 1st but while I’m skeptical we’d get anywhere CLOSE to what Seattle got for Wilson, for some significant draft capital in 2024 I’d do it. Move on

 

[longtimefan]

Not EXACTLY clear what the cap hit would be after June 1st but while I’m skeptical we’d get anywhere CLOSE to what Seattle got for Wilson, for some significant draft capital in 2024 I’d do it. Move on

Rodgers’ contract doesn’t have a no-trade clause, so technically he can be dealt at any time, however, according to OverTheCap.com the Packers would take on a dead cap hit of over $40m if the quarterback was traded before June 1 in 2023.

That figure would be spread out over two years if he was traded after that date, with a cap hit of just $15.8m in 2023 and a further $24.4m in 2024.

 

[Pkrjones]

Rodgers’ contract doesn’t have a no-trade clause, so technically he can be dealt at any time, however, according to OverTheCap.com the Packers would take on a dead cap hit of over $40m if the quarterback was traded before June 1 in 2023.

That figure would be spread out over two years if he was traded after that date, with a cap hit of just $15.8m in 2023 and a further $24.4m in 2024.

Can't keep restructuring & pushing cap $ into the future. '23 there's very little cap room & only 45 players under contract right now. '24 there's only 32 players under contract. If GB pushes AR's dead Cap (& possibly Aaron Jones cap) into '24 it's just prolonging cap-hell, IMHO. At some point the accounting needs to get cleaned up.

 

[thequick12]

Can't keep restructuring & pushing cap $ into the future. '23 there's very little cap room & only 45 players under contract right now. '24 there's only 32 players under contract. If GB pushes AR's dead Cap (& possibly Aaron Jones cap) into '24 it's just prolonging cap-hell, IMHO. At some point the accounting needs to get cleaned up.

Im not sure why people keep harping on this...the only way the cap is going to become a real problem is if the Packers suddenly become cash poor...which ain't happening

The salary cap is gonna go up a bunch for 2023. As well as 2024 and likely 2025 etc. No need to fear cap hell boogey man, its not happening.

Unless the people who manage the Packers cap are beyond stupid. They should be able to play tetris well enough to fit enough pieces in to win

They made some mistakes this off season with choosing the right players to keep. As it did at the time it seems giving Campbell and Douglas money was an error. That money should have been allocated elsewhere.

Zadarius Smith is a blue chip player who once again is going to finish with 12 to 15 sacks. Now perhaps they didnt have the option of keeping Smith because of whatever went on last season between him and the team. But on the surface he always seemed like the one to keep. Just on another level compared to Campbell and Douglas and you can throw Preston Smith in there too. I like P. Smith and hes a solid player but hes not a blue chip player. Hes an above average player who could certainly be important on a championship team. But you'd want him as your 3rd edge guy

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I tend to agree. I don't believe we're going to get anything, or at most, a gesture of thanks with a late round pick, for Rodgers, if traded. I think he ends up FA.

The Packers can't afford to release Rodgers to make him a free agent as they would take a cap hit of $100 million of dead money counting against their cap.

As far as altering the playbook, it seems they haven't a lot, but I do think they throw way too many WR screens.

True, Rodgers has thrown the most screen passes in the league this season.

I think there would be a handful of teams interested in Rodgers and willing to pay quite a bit for him as well. Seems like the whole philosophy of the NFL has shifted to a "win now, at all costs", while the window is open." Teams that feel like they are just a solid QB away from a Superbowl, like the Browns, Jets, 49'ers., Seahawks, Colts, etc. might get involved in a Rodger Sweepstakes.

The Niners don't stand a chance of trading for Rodgers next offseason as they have traded away their first four picks in the 2023 draft.

Same with the Browns which don't have a first and third rounder and Deshaun Watson on a fully guaranteed deal.

Can't keep restructuring & pushing cap $ into the future. '23 there's very little cap room & only 45 players under contract right now. '24 there's only 32 players under contract. If GB pushes AR's dead Cap (& possibly Aaron Jones cap) into '24 it's just prolonging cap-hell, IMHO. At some point the accounting needs to get cleaned up.

The Packers could keep their championship window open by pushing cap hits into future seasons though.

Im not sure why people keep harping on this...the only way the cap is going to become a real problem is if the Packers suddenly become cash poor...which ain't happening

The salary cap is gonna go up a bunch for 2023. As well as 2024 and likely 2025 etc. No need to fear cap hell boogey man, its not happening.

While the Packers will be able to stay under the cap there's no denying they will have less cap space than a lot of teams no matter if the cap will significantly increase over the next few years.

 

[thequick12]

While the Packers will be able to stay under the cap there's no denying they will have less cap space than a lot of teams no matter if the cap will significantly increase over the next few years.

Yes they will have less cap space than some teams...but if they can win a SB before Rodgers retires it would be cap space well spent, no?

 

[Half Empty]

I'll bite. The answer is 'yes'. The question is why do you think that might happen with this team, players, coaches, and management?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes they will have less cap space than some teams...but if they can win another a SB before Rodgers retires it would be cap space well spent, no?

I added one word (in red) to your sentence, but this will probably be front and center on his bio when he retires. While Tom Brady will be remembered for all the Super Bowls that he won, Rodgers will be remembered for all the Super Bowls that he never got to. Of course this can be spun many ways. Was it a short coming of or caused by Rodgers or was it a shortcoming of coaching/GM? I think a combination of all of the above.

 

[Pkrjones]

The Packers could keep their championship window open by pushing cap hits into future seasons though.

...and where has this gotten the franchise? 4-7, bloated contracts for their "top" players, and serious cap hell. Only 1 TE under contract in '23 (Deguara). Free agents to pay big $ to OR allow them to walk away: Tonyan, Jenkins, Amos, Crosby, Lazard, Lewis, Reed, Cobb, Lowry. What's worse is that 1/2 of those FA's probably retiring or leaving STILL count against the '23 cap due to the ole "push cap into the future" plan. Smh, that's a losing proposition that Gute continues to employ, as the team gets worse every year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Im not sure why people keep harping on this...the only way the cap is going to become a real problem is if the Packers suddenly become cash poor...which ain't happening

The salary cap is gonna go up a bunch for 2023. As well as 2024 and likely 2025 etc. No need to fear cap hell boogey man, its not happening.

People keep harping on this, because it is a fact of life in the NFL. This year was just the start of what the Packers are facing, very little extra cap to sign quality free agents. Now that would be fine, if they hit on almost every draft pick, but so far, that hasn't been the case. This year it was very obvious that they were weak at WR, TE and the OL. I would hardly call Sammy Watkins a guy that fixes that. Nor did the resigning of Mercedes.

So yes, you can keep playing the salary cap game and push more and more out, but as it comes due on your highest paid players, their individual cap hit is suddenly taking away cap space that you might otherwise use to sign free agents to fix positions of weakness.

 

[Voyageur]

The big question, when it comes to Rodgers, and his contract, is how you want to take the hit. The more you stretch it out, it will cost less per year, but it's like death by a thousand cuts. If you rip the bandage off, and let it all bleed out in one lump, your team will be horrible, but on the flip side, you're going to get great draft picks through judicious trading, and you'll be able to fill holes on the roster with reasonably priced contracts for both the team, and player.

I choose the instant approach, because that makes the consequences short term, not long term.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The big question, when it comes to Rodgers, and his contract, is how you want to take the hit. The more you stretch it out, it will cost less per year, but it's like death by a thousand cuts. If you rip the bandage off, and let it all bleed out in one lump, your team will be horrible, but on the flip side, you're going to get great draft picks through judicious trading, and you'll be able to fill holes on the roster with reasonably priced contracts for both the team, and player.

I choose the instant approach, because that makes the consequences short term, not long term.

I agree on taking the quickest approach possible and your analogy of "death by a thousand cuts", is spot on. Look at the Packers this year, Rodgers play is effected by his injury and they are a 4-7 team thus far and have looked horrible, more often than good, on both sides of the ball. They aren't just a piece or 2 away from being a SB contender.

People keep talking about the "Rodgers window is closing"....folks I think that has already happened. They don't have the cap space to fix this team with free agents, they barely will have enough cap space to sign their own key free agents. Pushing more cap out, just to keep your own players? Not if that group is the current 4-7 group.

Put Rodgers on the trading block, get as much as you can now for him. Cut loose some of the bloated contract players and let Love have the rebuilding team under his wing for his final contract year. I don't expect him to look great, but at least the Packers can decide what to do with him moving forward. By 2024, they will have shed most of their dead cap weight and hopefully have some good youngsters to start the new Packer era.

 

[AKCheese]

You’re not going to get much for Rogers now. Best looking option now is to see what Rogers can do next year. Not a great option but all we have at this point.

 

[thequick12]

B

You’re not going to get much for Rogers now. Best looking option now is to see what Rogers can do next year. Not a great option but all we have at this point.

Better option than about 28 other teams...

 

[Schultz]

IMO 25 other teams.

 

[thequick12]

IMO 25 other teams.

7 better than Rodgers. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, drawing a blank? Tua, Hurts idk

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes they will have less cap space than some teams...but if they can win a SB before Rodgers retires it would be cap space well spent, no?

Of course it would be cap space well spend but it's a fact they will have less available than most other teams to improve the roster next offseason.

...and where has this gotten the franchise? 4-7, bloated contracts for their "top" players, and serious cap hell. Only 1 TE under contract in '23 (Deguara). Free agents to pay big $ to OR allow them to walk away: Tonyan, Jenkins, Amos, Crosby, Lazard, Lewis, Reed, Cobb, Lowry.

Aside of Amos and Jenkins I don't believe losing any of the players you mentioned would be a big deal.

On the other hand I believe they could turn into a legit contender with only a couple moves that end up working out.

So yes, you can keep playing the salary cap game and push more and more out, but as it comes due on your highest paid players, their individual cap hit is suddenly taking away cap space that you might otherwise use to sign free agents to fix positions of weakness.

Teams in the NFL will have several players on the roster that will account for a significant percentage of the cap, no matter if they re-sign their own players or spend it in free agency.

It's important to have those players perform up to their contracts, something that hasn't happened with the Packers this season.

They aren't just a piece or 2 away from being a SB contender.

I think the Packers are only several pieces away from being a legit contender. They need to add a wide receiver and a tight end and make a change at defensive coordinator.

They don't have the cap space to fix this team with free agents, they barely will have enough cap space to sign their own key free agents.

It could take only one big signing in free agency to improve the team enough to contend.

7 better than Rodgers. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, drawing a blank? Tua, Hurts idk

I don't consider Lamar a better QB than Rodgers.

 

[thequick12]

I don't consider Lamar a better QB than Rodgers.

Me either, for that matter I don't consider Josh Allen better either. I was just trying to think of qbs who people might think are better.

 

[Pkrjones]

Aside of Amos and Jenkins I don't believe losing any of the players you mentioned would be a big deal.

On the other hand I believe they could turn into a legit contender with only a couple moves that end up working out.

Really? Lose 9 starters & become contenders with "only a couple moves"? That's pretty optimistic that Slaton & Wyatt will become solid starters and that the draft will produce a starting quality Safety, TE, WR, & kicker. There's no cap room for FA starters so draft & develop is the way forward for a year or 2.

 

[Voyageur]

The earliest the Packers will be serious contenders again will be 2025, and the football gods are going to have to align properly, to insure that the Packers are able to draft perfectly for need, and sign effectively for play makers, to insure a return to the top.

That said, I'm more inclined to believe that we'll see desperation instead of common sense ruling, when Rodgers is gone in 2023.

If he stays, and is still there through 2024, the return to the top won't happen until about 2027, and that's at best.

 

[OldSchool101]

I honestly don't have any clue what is going to happen with #12. My best guess is he gives us the best chance to win while he's here. I'm still baffled that our Defense isn't playing better after all the FA and draft resources we've used lately. Had our Defense played where I thought they were capable (top #8 area) we should be 6-5 or 7-4 area and actively fighting for a Wild Card spot.

I hate to say it, but until this Defense plays to expectation? I don't care who is at QB, it's going to be a Postseason miss or early exit

 

[Schultz]

7 better than Rodgers. Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, drawing a blank? Tua, Hurts idk

Burrow & Hebert. I am using age as a part of my judging.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Me either, for that matter I don't consider Josh Allen better either. I was just trying to think of qbs who people might think are better.

Allen played fantastic at the start of the season but has struggled a bit recently. I agree that he might not be able to perform at the same level as Rodgers when the Packers QB is healthy and on top of his game.

Really? Lose 9 starters & become contenders with "only a couple moves"? That's pretty optimistic that Slaton & Wyatt will become solid starters and that the draft will produce a starting quality Safety, TE, WR, & kicker. There's no cap room for FA starters so draft & develop is the way forward for a year or 2.

I mentioned Amos as a player who would be a big loss. I'm sorry but none of the others you mentioned are quality starters and it should be possible to replace them with players on reasonable deals.

In addition the Packers can easily create enough cap space to make some moves in free agency.

The earliest the Packers will be serious contenders again will be 2025, and the football gods are going to have to align properly, to insure that the Packers are able to draft perfectly for need, and sign effectively for play makers, to insure a return to the top.

That said, I'm more inclined to believe that we'll see desperation instead of common sense ruling, when Rodgers is gone in 2023.

If he stays, and is still there through 2024, the return to the top won't happen until about 2027, and that's at best.

It's entirely possible to get out of issues with the cap and go from last to first in a division within a single season. Therefore I believe you're far too negativr.

Burrow & Hebert. I am using age as a part of my judging.

I agree that both Borrow and Herbert as some others present a better option to build for the future but I would take a healthy Rodgers over them when thinking about a single season only.