Defending Janis

[mradtke66]

If Ben Rothlisberger holds that ball a split second more, and sees Heath Miller streaking down field wide open (Bush's responsibility) instead of going underneath when Bush eventually picked it off, that game could have been very different. He was great on ST, as a CB... not so much.

The problem with this statement is it's dripping with bias. He was pretty terrible at the start of his career. He ended up being serviceable by the end.

Bush did his film study. He recognized the formation and route combination. He them took a calculated gamble. This is EXACTLY what a CB is supposed to in that situation. It was a great play and deserves zero qualification.

This is exactly what Woodson did, but because Woodson is Woodson, many of us are willing to give him slack. Bush does the exact same thing and suddenly it's just more evidence of him being bad. Huh?

 

[adambr2]

You believe his special teams value is saving him? LOL, it absolutely is saving him there's no question about it. Again, 4 career regular season catches and the reports have constantly been negative on his progression. If he didn't have more special teams tackles than catches he'd of been looking for work long ago.

I'm actually kind of shocked he only has 4 career catches. I could have honestly sworn I remember him being our leading receiver one week last year. Not Arizona, a regular season game.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm actually kind of shocked he only has 4 career catches. I could have honestly sworn I remember him being our leading receiver one week last year. Not Arizona, a regular season game.

Janis actually led the team with 79 receiving yards vs. the Chargers in week six of last season and was tied with six others for the most catches during that game with two.

 

[Ace]

The problem with this statement is it's dripping with bias. He was pretty terrible at the start of his career. He ended up being serviceable by the end.

Bush did his film study. He recognized the formation and route combination. He them took a calculated gamble. This is EXACTLY what a CB is supposed to in that situation. It was a great play and deserves zero qualification.

This is exactly what Woodson did, but because Woodson is Woodson, many of us are willing to give him slack. Bush does the exact same thing and suddenly it's just more evidence of him being bad. Huh?

So you're going to compare Jarrett Bush to Charles Woodson?

I actually had no issue with him to be honest he was GREAT on ST's. You're absolutely correct, it was a great play and he deserves credit for making an excellent read. All I'm saying is Ben holds that ball a split second longer and it's 7 pts because he made the choice to completely let his responsibility loose. It is what it is now. Was it luck? Was it film study? Was it a horrible read by Ben? Doesn't matter at this point.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I actually had no issue with him to be honest he was GREAT on ST's. You're absolutely correct, it was a great play and he deserves credit for making an excellent read. All I'm saying is Ben holds that ball a split second longer and it's 7 pts because he made the choice to completely let his responsibility loose.

That statement is true for a ton of interceptions with the defensive back jumping a receiver's route though.

 

[mradtke66]

So you're going to compare Jarrett Bush to Charles Woodson?

In this specific instance, yes. He made a Woodson-level play.

All I'm saying is Ben holds that ball a split second longer and it's 7 pts because he made the choice to completely let his responsibility loose. It is what it is now. Was it luck? Was it film study? Was it a horrible read by Ben? Doesn't matter at this point.

What happened here was good study. I'm currently looking for/digging up the link right now. The story I read, an interview with Bush, was that this was a common play the Steelers ran. Bush noticed a tell, if you will. This formation, this route combination, Ben throws it to that guy. What Bush then had to do was trick Ben--cover the tight end long enough, bait him into throwing to his usual guy, and then go steal the ball.


The quote is here: http://pro.wauk-am.tritonflex.com/common/page.php?id=51&is_corp=1

“I recognized the play due to the formation. I kept seeing that repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, over and over on film,” Bush explained. ““Technically, yes, I was supposed to be on the tight end, but off of film study, I just saw that every play (they ran out of that formation), Mike Wallace was coming fast across the middle and Ben Roethlisberger would always hit him.

“And so the Super Bowl came up, I acted like I didn’t know the play and I just jumped the route. I guess you could say high-risk, high-reward. And it worked out.”

 

[bigbubbatd]

RRyder did a pretty good job explaining why Bush got more playing time. He didn't have to beat out player as talented as Janis has to to get on the field.

Who played on the outside last year when adams was hurt? Jones and who else? Just wondering who Janis was trying to beat out there

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Who played on the outside last year when adams was hurt? Jones and who else? Just wondering who Janis was trying to beat out there

Aside of Adams the Packers used Cobb, Montgomery and Abbrederis on the outside in 2015.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Except for the "where did the receiver go?" TD he gave up at the end of the first half.

Yes, I remember that. It is worth noting that before Charles Woodson broke his collarbone, Pittsburgh had scored exactly 3 points. Once he went out and was replaced by Bush, the Steelers scored 25 points. Not all of that is one Jarrett Bush, but some of it has to be (including the aforementioned touchdown at the end of the half).

 

[Curly Calhoun]

You believe his special teams value is saving him? LOL, it absolutely is saving him there's no question about it. Again, 4 career regular season catches and the reports have constantly been negative on his progression. If he didn't have more special teams tackles than catches he'd of been looking for work long ago.

Part of what saved Janis last year was all the injuries suffered by the Packers receiving corps. He certainly can't on that forever.

If he hasn't learned how to run a pattern by now, it's a fair question whether he ever will. It's a shame, because the raw talent is there, but at some point, if there continues to be no progress, it will be time to move on.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, I remember that. It is worth noting that before Charles Woodson broke his collarbone, Pittsburgh had scored exactly 3 points. Once he went out and was replaced by Bush, the Steelers scored 25 points. Not all of that is one Jarrett Bush, but some of it has to be (including the aforementioned touchdown at the end of the half).

The Packers were without Shields and Collins for part of the first half as well. While Bush for sure is partly to blame for the Steelers scoring 22 points the rest of the game he wasn't the primary reason for it.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Aside of Adams the Packers used Cobb, Montgomery and Abbrederis on the outside in 2015.

See not being able to be out Montgomery and Abby isn't that great. I assume bush had to beat out someone who was an oft-injured late round pick playing out of position like abby

 

[Deleted member 6794]

See not being able to be out Montgomery and Abby isn't that great. I assume bush had to beat out someone who was an oft-injured late round pick playing out of position like abby

The quality of the players Bush had to beat out to get on the field as a cornerback wasn't as good as the current talent level at wide receiver though.

 

[bigbubbatd]

The quality of the players Bush had to beat out to get on the field as a cornerback wasn't as good as the current talent level at wide receiver though.

Yeah i was talking about who Janis had to beat out last year. This year he is well down the depth chart and probably the 10th pass catching option in the wr/the group. Last year Nelson adams and Montgomery and abby were out part or all the year and Cobb was banged up and Janis couldn't really get playing time until everyone but Abby was hurt. That was not quality depth at wr and he couldn't get on the field

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah i was talking about who Janis had to beat out last year. This year he is well down the depth chart and probably the 10th pass catching option in the wr/the group. Last year Nelson adams and Montgomery and abby were out part or all the year and Cobb was banged up and Janis couldn't really get playing time until everyone but Abby was hurt. That was not quality depth at wr and he couldn't get on the field

It's true that the wide receivers struggled mightily last season but in my opinion the quality at the position was still better than the guys Bush had to beat out to get on the field (Will Blackmon, Patrick Lee to name a few).

 

[PackerDNA]

Yesterday's thumbs up/thumbs down practice report at packersnews.com came down on Janis pretty hard. He's blown his big chance with Nelson, Montgomery and Cook sidelined.

 

[bigbubbatd]

It's true that the wide receivers struggled mightily last season but in my opinion the quality at the position was still better than the guys Bush had to beat out to get on the field (Will Blackmon, Patrick Lee to name a few).

Will Blackmon is still starting in the NFL. Odd guy to add to the list there

Janis continues to struggle to step up in practice. Right now it almost feels like he is closer to being the last option at wr than a guy who plays significant snaps. Is it time to wonder if his spot is in jeopardy if another player or two step up and look good at gunner. The Packers had what 6 punts per game some of those are fair caught or are touch backs. Is it worth keeping a guy if his largest production is on 4-5 plays a game. Montgomery or Davis could easily take his spot at KR and might be better. That just leaves kick coverage which I assume Janis is solid at.

 

[PackerDNA]

It's true that the wide receivers struggled mightily last season but in my opinion the quality at the position was still better than the guys Bush had to beat out to get on the field (Will Blackmon, Patrick Lee to name a few).

To be fair, there's a good pro Janis article by Micheal Rodney today at www.packersnotes.com. Cap , he makes some of the points you've made.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Will Blackmon is still starting in the NFL. Odd guy to add to the list there.

Blackmon has started only 24 games over his nine year career but for some odd reason had 10 of those last season with Washington. He was mostly terrible in 2015 though so I don't think it's strange to add him to this list.

Janis continues to struggle to step up in practice. Right now it almost feels like he is closer to being the last option at wr than a guy who plays significant snaps. Is it time to wonder if his spot is in jeopardy if another player or two step up and look good at gunner. The Packers had what 6 punts per game some of those are fair caught or are touch backs. Is it worth keeping a guy if his largest production is on 4-5 plays a game. Montgomery or Davis could easily take his spot at KR and might be better. That just leaves kick coverage which I assume Janis is solid at.

Opponents returned a total of 41 punts vs. the Packers last season with the coverage unit allowing a league low average of only 4.2 yards per return.

If the team is able to find another player or two to duplicate Janis' performance as a gunner who is higher on the respective positional depth chart there's a possibility the third year receiver doesn't make the team. That is highly unlikely though especially as Goodson, the other highly productive gunner, is suspended for the first four games of the season.

Trevor Davis isn't a lock to make the final roster either. While he performed on a high level during the first two training camp practices he hasn't drastically regressed since the pads have come on.

 

[PackerDNA]

Amazed Blackmon has been around so long. He's never been more than a fringe player.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Jeff Janis could miss significant time after fracturing at least one bone in his right hand during practice on Wednesday.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17292237/green-bay-packers-wr-jeff-janis-fracture-right-hand

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think last nights game showed that Abby and Davis can play......not too worried about losing anything Janis has to offer at WR. He would be missed on special teams however.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think last nights game showed that Abby and Davis can play......not too worried about losing anything Janis has to offer at WR. He would be missed on special teams however.

Davis still has a lot to prove as he has struggled in practice since the pads have come on. Two catches against third stringers isn't enough to make me believe he will be able to produce against starting defensive backs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Davis still has a lot to prove as he has struggled in practice since the pads have come on. Two catches against third stringers is enough to make me believe he will be able to produce against starting defensive backs.

Think you meant "isn't" enough to make you believe. You are correct. I may be jumping the gun a bit with Davis, but given where he was drafted and the talk about how great his hands are, I see him getting more reps.

Notice Rodgers comment on Abby during the sideline interview?.....something about how excited he is to see how Abby plays when he has Rodgers throwing to him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Think you meant "isn't" enough to make you believe. You are correct. I may be jumping the gun a bit with Davis, but given where he was drafted and the talk about how great his hands are, I see him getting more reps.

Yeah, of course I meant that Davis' catches against third stringers aren't enough to make me believe. I expect the rookie to receive significant playing time during the preseason and would like to see him beat press coverage constantly. Unfortunately with teams mostly playing vanilla schemes this time of the year I don't think he will get a lot of chances doing that.