Defending Janis
- Thread starter rodell330
- Start date
Yes I do, and I gave you an example as to why he in fact isn't "better" under the lights. Don't question me when you make an asanine comment. The guy has 4 career regular season catches in 2 years, don't suggest he's better in any situation because if he were he wouldn't be relegated to 3rd string offense on the first depth chart.
Compared to his training camp performance last season did he or did he not play better in game situations. Did doing so improve his roster stock going into the season, at least compared to Myles White, he was after all a bubble player was he not. Does point out his regular season performance tend to prove or disprove that he performed better in game situations last year at this time than in camp? Don't answer those were rhetorical questions.
He had 2 catches in the regular season last year.... 2. You're definition of the word "better" is much looser than mine is apparently. He runs some of the laziest routes I've ever seen, and nothing I've read thus far about his camp this year is making me feel any better about his route running ability. He's fast, and he's good on special teams that's about it. If that means "He's better under the lights" then so be it I guess, but he's not.
His routes aren't lazy they're stiff, he doesn't have much fluidity in hips and so his cuts just aren't dynamic. Geronimo Allison runs just shy of a 4.7 but his natural grace and fluidity allows him to slink in and out of his cuts ... well like Marcus Allen(another slow guy) used to run with the ball. Fluid players tend to be harder to react to because A) their speed is harder to judge and B) their cuts and movements are harder to anticipate. Again you're making your argument based upon something that isn't relevant to the original remark.
Yes he's better under the lights, yes it's noteworthy that the best play of his short career happened in the final minutes of a playoff game and his greatest play came in the midst of a double team involving the best cornerback in the league. But whether or not the coaches believe he's usable and whether or not he's more than just a decoy won't be answered based solely upon his play in the pre-season. Maybe he won't be able to get open if corners know that he's really only capable of running hitches and go routes. He beat out Myles White last year based off potential mixed with PS game performance. If it was just T camp and and special teams he'd be elsewhere right now.
Im actually more concerned about his hands at this point, a guy can be a contributor just running a simple route tree. If he can get open deep and catch enough long plays he'll pull safeties enough to justify playing time.But if he can't catch it when he does get open he's not going to even be worthwhile as a decoy. Would a DC shade a safety over the top if he knows that Janis won't catch it even if they do go deep and even if a low percentage throw is right where it needs to be?
To me, he's a player that will make a highlight reel because of his speed and effort, but it's the 95% of plays he doesn't make that keeps him from being a solid player.
If all he can offer is being a decoy, he won't see the field enough to matter. He's not going to play ahead who we have their now if he can't be counted on to ready and adjust to defenses and be where he's supposed to be. I don't care how fast he is. His game needs to evolve or he's going to be a special teams ace and not much else barring a depleted we corps from injury.
I'm not sure he'll even be a decoy, if you only justify single coverage then you're not even a decoy. That role would suggest that he's a credible enough deep threat to force teams to provide safety help over the top which they would if he's reasonably productive with the go routes, doubtful unless he picks it... a lot. With the Packers right now teams would play them with a single high safety shading slightly towards Jordy and a safety slightly up in coverage to squat on those slot routes. Dare the packers to beat you with someone else.
That's what I was trying to say If all he has to offer is a run fast deep threat, he offers us next to nothing on a play to play basis. #1 he won't see the field unless he can offer more. #2 if that's all he has, it's not hard to defend. Give a big enough cushion and one mediocre db can do it alone. Big deal.
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HardRightEdge
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Even then, I don't think he tracks the deep ball very well.
Some DBs might now know who he is and might pay attention to what needs attention. The surprise flash is over.
You know, if you listen to Janis' interviews you come away thinking he's a reasonably intelligent guy.
I'm beginning to believe he came out of college having learned no more football than a guy coming out of one of the better Texas or Cali high school programs. They didn't even coach him out of body catching and alligator-arming balls, something the Packer coaches have had some success with.
He could yet be a bona fide NFL player. His special teams play might keep him on board long enough to find out if that's in the cards.
the comparison to top high school programs from Cali and Tejas might be to charitable.
Well even with his limited route running ability he has been able to get behind Shields and Dix consistently. Sometimes you really can just outrun and outmuscle opposing schemes. If teams give him a big cushion quick throw sideline, he's a load one on one in the open field. But his ability to track the ball over his shoulder has been concerning.
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HardRightEdge
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Especially if one of those HSs runs a pro style passing offense, if such an animal still exists.
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HardRightEdge
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So how is that specifically different from what was said?
So, if these first 2 years function as an accelerated 4 year college career from a fundamental coaching standpoint alone, that gets him to the rookie level. Since he's had two years to acclimate to NFL life, the NFL schedules and routines, an NFL playbook and scheme, and the NFL money, that's worth another year. That means it's time for that "second year jump" in "Janis time". After that, patience will wear thin if the jump is not evident. With no further improvement, he could certainly stick around for a while for special team duty and spot play, assuming there's room on the game day roster for that kind of guy.
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Deleted member 6794
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Absolutely agree that coming from a small school like Saginaw Valley State justifies Janis needing more time to get up to speed with an NFL offense. Him still making the same mistakes during his third season has me believing he won't be able to ever fully grasp the playbook though.
End it here, this is perfect.
Given his talent level, I'm certainly willing to give him the preseason in its entirety to evaluate and see if there has been a jump in understanding before I say he's not going to have an increased role in the offense. I'm certainly skeptical though that if he's still where he was at 2 years ago as far as understanding, that things are suddenly just going to start clicking over the next month.
I'm trying to think of a guy with comparable measurables who grew as far as a wide receiver after 2-3 years in the offense. Billy Schroeder? I'm not sure how similar he was to Janis as far as measurables and being very 'green' for the first few years. As I recall he was never a star but did go on to enjoy a somewhat successful NFL career.
I'm trying to think of a guy with comparable measurables who grew as far as a wide receiver after 2-3 years in the offense. Billy Schroeder? I'm not sure how similar he was to Janis as far as measurables and being very 'green' for the first few years. As I recall he was never a star but did go on to enjoy a somewhat successful NFL career.
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Deleted member 6794
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Schroeder is probably the only player compareable to Janis. After the Packers drafted him in 1994 it took him until his fourth season in the league to even catch a pass. He broke out in his sixth year catching 74 passes for 1,051 yards.
I don't know about the reasons why he was out of football for some time though and I'm not convinced Janis can follow his path.
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HardRightEdge
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Schroeder went to NE for 2005 at age 34. He broke his foot and spent that season on injured reserve, concluding his career. The Packers signed him for just one day in 2008 at Schroeder's request so he could officially retire a Packer.
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Deleted member 6794
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I was actually talking about Schroeder seemingly being out of football in 1996.
After doing some research I found out that he spent the entire 1994 regular season on the Packers practice squad before being activated for both playoff games. The team traded him to New England the following year where he suffered a broken foot during the preseason and was put on injured reserve. The Patriots waived him during the 1996 preseason and the Packers brought him back at that point, once again putting him on the practice squad. Green Bay allowed him to play the 1997 season in the World League of American Football where he enjoyed a standout season (43 receptions for 702 yards and six TDs) leading to success in the NFL.
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HardRightEdge
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The Schroeder comparisons are many:
- Tall, fast white guys; Schroeder was 6'3", 200 lbs., and I see one report that he ran a sub-4.3 at the Combine, though I don't see a confirming source.
- Both are/were exceptional athletes...speed, leaping ability, strength; Schroeder intended to pursue the decathaon until the Packers drafted him.
- Both came out of small college programs, Schroeder out of Wisconsin-LaCrosse, though he played only one year of college football to Janis' 4 years after redshirting as a freshman; Schroeder's college sports career was primarily as a track man. Janis was a 3 year letterman in track at SV State.
- It's fair to characterize both as primarily straight-line runners. I'd say Schroeder tracked the deep ball better than we've seen from Janis so far. I think it's fair to say Schroeder was not a particularly savvy route runner even after many years in the league which is of course one of Janis' shortcomings to date. When one thinks of Schroeder one thinks first of "stretch the field".
Schroeder's 3 productive seasons with the Packers were 1999 - 2001, when he averaged 64 catches, 989 yds., 6 TDs. During those 3 seasons he was paired with Freeman who had similar stats over that period in an offense where Favre spread the ball.
In the end, though, Schroeder and Janis are two different human beings and one cannot account for similarities and differences in what goes on upstairs. I'll say this much...Schroeder had a bit of a goofy streak that I don't see evidenced in Janis. On the other hand Schroeder played with a QB who's gun slinging standards were perhaps not so exacting as the current QB.
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HardRightEdge
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I stand corrected on my screwed up time line.
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GBkrzygrl
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I am still hopeful that Janis can put something together. Although I am starting to lean towards the skeptical crowd.
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