Defending Janis

[OldSchool101]

Yes I do agree. I think his stellar play on ST will actually hinder his opportunities as a WR. We have too many formidable candidates nominated for the WR position, I also believe none of Jeffs competition at receiver will be an upgrade iver Jeff on ST which has to be factored. We can't afford to go backwards on ST, we learned that.
In reality, he may just be best suited at the role he's at now. But he's arguably still great off the bench at backup receiver And may get more looks if there's an injury at WR

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes I do agree. I think his stellar play on ST will actually hinder his opportunities as a WR. We have too many formidable candidates nominated for the WR position, I also believe none of Jeffs competition at receiver will be an upgrade iver Jeff on ST which has to be factored. We can't afford to go backwards on ST, we learned that.
In reality, he may just be best suited at the role he's at now. But he's arguably still great off the bench at backup receiver And may get more looks if there's an injury at WR

I think that if Janis moves up to the third spot on the depth chart he would play extensively on offense regardless of his role on special teams.

 

[sschind]

Yes I do agree. I think his stellar play on ST will actually hinder his opportunities as a WR. We have too many formidable candidates nominated for the WR position, I also believe none of Jeffs competition at receiver will be an upgrade iver Jeff on ST which has to be factored. We can't afford to go backwards on ST, we learned that.
In reality, he may just be best suited at the role he's at now. But he's arguably still great off the bench at backup receiver And may get more looks if there's an injury at WR

I guess I just do not see this group of formidable candidates at WR (after the two top spots) . As much as my posts seem to downplay Janis as a WR I do not see the difference between him and any of our our #3 candidates as being that big. Monty showed promise but has an injury that may be more significant than we first thought. Adams had a decent rookie year but seemed to regress last year. Abby finished the year on the field but his body of work is as shaky as Janis. The rookie is just that, a rookie and not a high round pick so you have to believe he will start out near the bottom.

While I do not think, at this point, Janis has made the leap above any of the other guys to the #3 spot it would not surprise me if he does eventually. Perhaps even by opening day. Unfortunately that is not so much a vote of confidence in his abilities to outplay them as much as it is a question of the ability of the others to maintain their positions ahead of him.

If Janis does remain our ST ace honestly I hope he can rise up in the WR depth chart because if we are going to activate 4 WRs on any given game day I would prefer one of those to be our ST guy and not 4 WRs plus Janis as our ST guy. It gives us the option of only activating 4 WRs if another position becomes a bigger need for bodies.

As I have said, after Nelson and Cobb I see it shaking out this way Adams, Montgomery, Janis, rookie but I could honestly see the order of the first three changing very easily and to be honest I won't really care one way or the other.

The bottom line for me, as I guess it is for most fans, is that our depth chart is set based on each players abilities and not on their prowess at another position and regardless of draft position. If Janis outplays Adams and Montgomery I will be happy with Janis as our #3 guy (as long as it is because he steps up and not because they step back)

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I guess I just do not see this group of formidable candidates at WR (after the two top spots) . As much as my posts seem to downplay Janis as a WR I do not see the difference between him and any of our our #3 candidates as being that big. Monty showed promise but has an injury that may be more significant than we first thought. Adams had a decent rookie year but seemed to regress last year. Abby finished the year on the field but his body of work is as shaky as Janis. The rookie is just that, a rookie and not a high round pick so you have to believe he will start out near the bottom.

While I do not think, at this point, Janis has made the leap above any of the other guys to the #3 spot it would not surprise me if he does eventually. Perhaps even by opening day. Unfortunately that is not so much a vote of confidence in his abilities to outplay them as much as it is a question of the ability of the others to maintain their positions ahead of him.

If Janis does remain our ST ace honestly I hope he can rise up in the WR depth chart because if we are going to activate 4 WRs on any given game day I would prefer one of those to be our ST guy and not 4 WRs plus Janis as our ST guy. It gives us the option of only activating 4 WRs if another position becomes a bigger need for bodies.

As I have said, after Nelson and Cobb I see it shaking out this way Adams, Montgomery, Janis, rookie but I could honestly see the order of the first three changing very easily and to be honest I won't really care one way or the other.

The bottom line for me, as I guess it is for most fans, is that our depth chart is set based on each players abilities and not on their prowess at another position and regardless of draft position. If Janis outplays Adams and Montgomery I will be happy with Janis as our #3 guy (as long as it is because he steps up and not because they step back)

I understand the perception that Adams struggled mightily in 2015 but taking a closer look at his stats only Cobb and Jennings had more receptions than him during a receiver's second season with the Packers over the last 20 seasons. In my opinion he's the clear cut front runner to start opposite Nelson entering this season.

The Packers active gameday roster will include several players mostly playing special teams only so there's no reason to be concerned which position those guys are assigned to on offense or defense.

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess I just do not see this group of formidable candidates at WR (after the two top spots) . As much as my posts seem to downplay Janis as a WR I do not see the difference between him and any of our our #3 candidates as being that big. Monty showed promise but has an injury that may be more significant than we first thought. Adams had a decent rookie year but seemed to regress last year. Abby finished the year on the field but his body of work is as shaky as Janis. The rookie is just that, a rookie and not a high round pick so you have to believe he will start out near the bottom.

While I do not think, at this point, Janis has made the leap above any of the other guys to the #3 spot it would not surprise me if he does eventually. Perhaps even by opening day. Unfortunately that is not so much a vote of confidence in his abilities to outplay them as much as it is a question of the ability of the others to maintain their positions ahead of him.

If Janis does remain our ST ace honestly I hope he can rise up in the WR depth chart because if we are going to activate 4 WRs on any given game day I would prefer one of those to be our ST guy and not 4 WRs plus Janis as our ST guy. It gives us the option of only activating 4 WRs if another position becomes a bigger need for bodies.

As I have said, after Nelson and Cobb I see it shaking out this way Adams, Montgomery, Janis, rookie but I could honestly see the order of the first three changing very easily and to be honest I won't really care one way or the other.

The bottom line for me, as I guess it is for most fans, is that our depth chart is set based on each players abilities and not on their prowess at another position and regardless of draft position. If Janis outplays Adams and Montgomery I will be happy with Janis as our #3 guy (as long as it is because he steps up and not because they step back)

I said I was optimistic for Jeff and I'll be as happy as anyone if he continues to rise, that will only solidify our WR core and better our future, But keep in mind Jeff needs to beat out two 2nd day draft picks in 2014/2015. Yes, there have been concerns with both, Im not confused here. But Jeff equally has concerns also.
I think we have 3 good candidates at #3 and I'm confident one will step up and get the job done. I still think Davante is the front runner at #3 and it's his job to lose. I think he'll get the most looks.
I believe the battle for #4 is more between Monty and Jeff, if it's a tie breaker I think it goes to Monty.
CM3 understood that being played at the position that has the most positive effect for the team was necessary. That just might be Jeffs situation as a ST ace this year as he continues to grow

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I said I was optimistic for Jeff and I'll be as happy as anyone if he continues to rise, that will only solidify our WR core and better our future, But keep in mind Jeff needs to beat out two 2nd day draft picks in 2014/2015. Yes, there have been concerns with both, Im not confused here. But Jeff equally has concerns also.
I think we have 3 good candidates at #3 and I'm confident one will step up and get the job done. I still think Davante is the front runner at #3 and it's his job to lose. I think he'll get the most looks.
I believe the battle for #4 is more between Monty and Jeff, if it's a tie breaker I think it goes to Monty.
CM3 understood that being played at the position that has the most positive effect for the team was necessary. That just might be Jeffs situation as a ST ace this year as he continues to grow

Montgomery is a slot receiver who will most likely battle with Abbrederis for the spot behind Cobb on the depth chart. Adams, Janis and Davis are best suited to play outside opposite of Nelson.

 

[RRyder]

Montgomery is a slot receiver who will most likely battle with Abbrederis for the spot behind Cobb on the depth chart. Adams, Janis and Davis are best suited to play outside opposite of Nelson.

He may be best suited for the slot but he still played on the outside well before Janis on the depth chart. Abbrederis did also despite being better suited for the slot

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He may be best suited for the slot but he still played on the outside well before Janis on the depth chart. Abbrederis did also despite being better suited for the slot

I can't remember Montgomery lining up on the outside a lot of times before he got injured in week 6. Maybe I'm wrong about it though.

 

[RRyder]

I can't remember Montgomery lining up on the outside a lot of times before he got injured in week 6. Maybe I'm wrong about it though.

I remember specifically seeing him line up on the outside quite a few times against Seattle. I was at the game and made a point to try and find him a few plays and he was almost exclusively used outside from what I remember.

We did lose Adams that game so that may have factored in but my original point still stands that even though physically Janis is better suited for the outside every other WR was viewed as a better outside receiver

 

[easyk83]

And the way I read the article, if Shields catches the ball or knocks it down, this is a non-story. Janis caught it on the ricochet, he was boxed out and didn't out muscle or out jump Sam. Good hand eye coordination on the follow through, maybe the DB's should learn to juggle too.

I read the article as a broken play in which the receiver broke deep and initially had his man beat. With Aaron Rolling out while throwing deep and with the absence of timing the ball was underthrown which allowed Shields to not only catch up but to take position underneath. Shields boxing someone out, lol. He's a very good corner but the idea of him outmuscling, forcibly outpositioning someone makes me laugh.

 

[easyk83]

Here's a good article,

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...earn-rodgers-trust-b99743787z1-383065681.html

"
There are two sides of Janis, equal parts intriguing and mystifying. He can flash his 4.3-second, 40-yard-dash speed one play, run a wrong route the next. Janis' inconsistency was evident during the Packers' first minicamp practice when he sprinted two steps past cornerback Damarious Randall and safety Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, a pair of first-round picks.

"Outruns them both," quarterback Brett Hundley said. "He's fast enough that I trust to throw that ball when he's not over the top of them, and trust that's going to beat them deep."

Only problem was Janis didn't catch the football. Hundley dropped his pass perfectly into his receiver's arms. It fell incomplete."

 

[easyk83]

Here's another article on his mixed performance in camp. Also look at the picture up top, looks like he's all thumbs on that attempted/completed catch.

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...ff-Janis/6c6e8655-b3bf-405e-a52d-033da4f92015

Coming from a Division II college program, Janis’ head has been filled with a lot of new information since arriving in Green Bay as a seventh-round draft pick in 2014. His physical gifts are obvious – a 6-3, 219-pound frame with speed to burn – but the mental side of his game is always under scrutiny because he’s had so much to learn.

New full-time receivers coach Luke Getsy said Janis doesn’t have to be taught the same thing twice, a strong sign he’s capable of fully realizing the potential that became the hottest of offseason topics following his seven-catch, 145-yard playoff performance against the Cardinals.

“A big part of telling if a guy can make it or not is, can he learn something new and it sticks? And it does,” Getsy said.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

New full-time receivers coach Luke Getsy said Janis doesn’t have to be taught the same thing twice, a strong sign he’s capable of fully realizing the potential that became the hottest of offseason topics following his seven-catch, 145-yard playoff performance against the Cardinals.

“A big part of telling if a guy can make it or not is, can he learn something new and it sticks? And it does,” Getsy said.

hmmmm.......maybe Van Pelt and Bennett were not using the same teaching methods as Getsy? Or Getsy is only implying that once Janis learns something new it sticks, without any reference as to just how long it takes him to learn it?

I truly hope Janis has finally learned enough to become an impactful WR on the field. No doubt, the Packers could use his speed outside, but that is also going to require him to have full knowledge of the Playbook. I wouldn't expect MM or AR to decide to limit the offense to only those plays that Jeff has learned.

 

[easyk83]

hmmmm.......maybe Van Pelt and Bennett were not using the same teaching methods as Getsy? Or Getsy is only implying that once Janis learns something new it sticks, without any reference as to just how long it takes him to learn it?

I truly hope Janis has finally learned enough to become an impactful WR on the field. No doubt, the Packers could use his speed outside, but that is also going to require him to have full knowledge of the Playbook. I wouldn't expect MM or AR to decide to limit the offense to only those plays that Jeff has learned.

It's possible that without a full time receiver coach that not only the starters were disadvantaged but that developmental receivers received less attention as well. I also wonder that with a part-time receiver coach and reliance on vet receivers and Rodgers to work with the young guys that maybe there were too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's possible that without a full time receiver coach that not only the starters were disadvantaged but that developmental receivers received less attention as well. I also wonder that with a part-time receiver coach and reliance on vet receivers and Rodgers to work with the young guys that maybe there were too many cooks in the kitchen.

I agree and never understood why Van Pelt was put in charge of both the QB's and WR's. From what I read, it was a front office move to keep him in Green Bay. Just made no sense to me why you put a career QB coach in charge (part time) of your young Wide Receiver group. We can only hope that Getsy will do a better job with the current group, because the group who took the field last year did not look well coached. Which has nothing to do with play calling.

 

[Mondio]

I agree and never understood why Van Pelt was put in charge of both the QB's and WR's. From what I read, it was a front office move to keep him in Green Bay. Just made no sense to me why you put a career QB coach in charge (part time) of your young Wide Receiver group. We can only hope that Getsy will do a better job with the current group, because the group who took the field last year did not look well coached. Which has nothing to do with play calling.

The move obviously didn't work for all sorts of reasons, but on paper I see nothing wrong with having the QB's and WR's being coached together. With all the subtleties of the positions and route running and timing, there's just as likely to be communication breakdowns if you have ever piece with it's own coach, as you are to "undercoach" one or the other position by having 1 guy in charge. I'm sure the assistants do a lot of the minute stuff anyway. I mean, Bennett was a RB and unless it was a sloppy mess, he was average at best as a player. I think he's a great coach. he was of the RB's for a while, then moved to WR and i think he brought a great element to our WR's. I think the man understands football. So VanPelt being a QB coach now coaching WR isn't really concerning to me by itself, unless of course he just can't coach the WR position But I think a lot was at play last year, untimely injuries throughout the offense. Mental breakdowns at bad times and probably some coaching mistakes tossed in too. Overall it led to an offense that always seemed to have 1 cylinder misfiring that resulted in a sputtering machine that could never get rolling.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The move obviously didn't work for all sorts of reasons, but on paper I see nothing wrong with having the QB's and WR's being coached together.

I see that where you have a budget and limited # of coaches, but not in the NFL. The Buccaneers, Browns, Chiefs, Rams and Falcons are the only current teams where the WR coach is listed as having some other respoinsibilty, none of which are positional coaches for other positions. While I see the advantage of having the QB and WR coach meeting and on the same page, I just think when you have a complex offense and young QB's and WR's on a team, asking one man to coach them both is asking too much and the other 26 teams in the NFL appear to feel the same.

 

[Mondio]

I see that where you have a budget and limited # of coaches, but not in the NFL. The Buccaneers, Browns, Chiefs, Rams and Falcons are the only current teams where the WR coach is listed as having some other respoinsibilty, none of which are positional coaches for other positions. While I see the advantage of having the QB and WR coach meeting and on the same page, I just think when you have a complex offense and young QB's and WR's on a team, asking one man to coach them both is asking too much and the other 26 teams in the NFL appear to feel the same.

I'm certain VanPelt was not the only person coaching the quarterbacks and the wide receivers. You can organize your structure or hierarchy in many different ways to be successful with many different titles. At the end of the day, your OC, your QB/WR coach, your head coach, or some coach is overseeing a segment, and putting approvals on ideas, plans, etc and other guys are going out to get that work done.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm certain VanPelt was not the only person coaching the quarterbacks and the wide receivers. You can organize your structure or hierarchy in many different ways to be successful with many different titles. At the end of the day, your OC, your QB/WR coach, your head coach, or some coach is overseeing a segment, and putting approvals on ideas, plans, etc and other guys are going out to get that work done.

No doubt, titles don't always mean a lot or necessarily show who is actually doing the work. But its pretty clear that whatever VanPelt was or wasn't doing in his first season as QB/WR coach didn't fair well on the field, enough that the Packer organization stripped him of the title and hired Getsy.

Also, remember the head positional coach is someone who is in charge of all the coaches under that position, not just the players. My hope is Getsy and his assistants can take a bunch of young wide receivers and get more out of them then last years WR coaching staff.

 

[Mondio]

No doubt, titles don't always mean a lot or necessarily show who is actually doing the work. But its pretty clear that whatever VanPelt was or wasn't doing in his first season as QB/WR coach didn't fair well on the field, enough that the Packer organization stripped him of the title and hired Getsy.

i know, as I said, what they tried, obviously didn't work. I'm glad they switched. They needed to. Merely pointing out that one guy with 2 titles doesn't mean a whole lot by itself.

 

[sschind]

I understand the perception that Adams struggled mightily in 2015 but taking a closer look at his stats only Cobb and Jennings had more receptions than him during a receiver's second season with the Packers over the last 20 seasons. In my opinion he's the clear cut front runner to start opposite Nelson entering this season.

The Packers active gameday roster will include several players mostly playing special teams only so there's no reason to be concerned which position those guys are assigned to on offense or defense.

I actually agree with you on the Adams issue. The perception that he struggled mightily I think stems from 2 things. First he was not expected to be thrust into the role of #2 WR and I think people were hoping and expecting a nice progression from a decent rookie year as the #3 WR. Unfortunately the injury to Nelson put the kibosh on that and he was suddenly expected to take on a much larger role and was put under the microscope so to speak. Second, as Packer fans we have come to expect a lot more from the Packers #2 WR and when he doesn't blow the doors off we look at it as a bad year. Its not as if Adams was the only Packer player to have a down year. As far as the receptions in the second year how do the other receivers compare to him in terms of position on the depth chart. I don't know that many 2nd year guys are the #2 WR on the team so it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to have a good number of receptions.

I think a lot of what got Adams in Dutch with fans last year was the same thing that got James Jones off to a rough start. Nothing puts a WR in the doghouse with the fans faster than a couple of high profile drops. He could have 10 catches for 150 yards and 2 TDs but if he drops one key pass that's what a lot of people remember, especially if the team loses.

 

[sschind]

Coming from a Division II college program, Janis’ head has been filled with a lot of new information since arriving in Green Bay as a seventh-round draft pick in 2014. His physical gifts are obvious – a 6-3, 219-pound frame with speed to burn – but the mental side of his game is always under scrutiny because he’s had so much to learn.

I didn't read the article you linked to so I'm sorry to ask this but is this your comment or was it from the article. Not that it matters because my response would be the same. Its time we stop using the fact that he was a 7th round pick from a DII school as an excuse. His rookie year, sure, its a big enough jump from the college game to the pros and JJ probably had a bigger jump to make than most. I completely understand that and I'll give him that one. His second year, OK, I get it, he maybe didn't get the opportunities in his rookie year, for whatever the reason, and that coupled with the fact he was a seventh round pick from a DII school could have hampered his development. I'll give him that one as well. Now he is going into his 3rd year. The time for excuses are done. If he can't get it now its not because he was a seventh round pick from a DII school, its because he just can't get it.

 

[adambr2]

I know now that a few months have passed, it's easier to not remember Adams' season so harshly. And I know that Rodgers' struggled last season, the other WRs struggled, and none of that helped.

But Davante Adams was indeed as bad as it felt like last year. I mean really really, historically bad.

https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/6983/davante-adams-is-having-a-historically-bad-season#

http://totalpackers.com/2015/11/davante-adams-you-are-terrible/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I know now that a few months have passed, it's easier to not remember Adams' season so harshly. And I know that Rodgers' struggled last season, the other WRs struggled, and none of that helped.

But Davante Adams was indeed as bad as it felt like last year. I mean really really, historically bad.

There's no denying that Adams struggled last season but assuming a receiver having 50 catches was historically bad is ridiculous.

 

[adambr2]

There's no denying that Adams struggled last season but assuming a receiver having 50 catches was historically bad is ridiculous.

If you read the first article, the metrics make a very compelling case for that argument.

And 50 catches is an extremely hollow stat when you're targeted nearly 100 times and typically all in the short to medium pass range.