Defending Janis

[adambr2]

Abbrederis is the guy that no one is really talking about this offseason. Is there any chance that he surprises us all and wins the battle for the #3 job? Rodgers spoke highly of him last season, as has McCarthy this offseason.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Abbrederis is the guy that no one is really talking about this offseason. Is there any chance that he surprises us all and wins the battle for the #3 job? Rodgers spoke highly of him last season, as has McCarthy this offseason.

The problem the Packers have is that 2 of the guys they seem to like the most - Montgomery and Abbrederis - are best suited to play slot where Cobb already plays. The Patriots essentially run out two slot type guys as their top wrs but it is not the norm. That is why Adams and Janis get talked about more than Abby and Montgomery even though the coaches might like the latter two more.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Abbrederis is the guy that no one is really talking about this offseason. Is there any chance that he surprises us all and wins the battle for the #3 job? Rodgers spoke highly of him last season, as has McCarthy this offseason.

Here's what McCarthy had to say about Abbrederis after this week's minicamp.

"I think Jared had his best off-season, I think his route running is exemplary for a young guy. His ability to recognize coverages, and his time clock, his breaking points, his ability to drop his weight. Just all the specifics and details and techniques of route running, I think he’s exceptional.

He just needs to continue to work on getting stronger and so forth. He plays the position technically and funda- mentally at a very high level."

I agree with bubba that Abbrederis is best suited to play in the slot though and with Cobb being guaranteed to start there it will be tough for him to get significant playing time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've liked Abbrederis from day 1, but as everyone is saying, he is probably best suited for the slot and I doubt he will ever unseat Cobb from being the #1 there. The other key thing with Abby is his concussion history. Abby is a family man, as well as a very intelligent guy. I can't see him staying in Football too long if he has to choose between it and his future health.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I've liked Abbrederis from day 1, but as everyone is saying, he is probably best suited for the slot and I doubt he will ever unseat Cobb from being the #1 there. The other key thing with Abby is his concussion history. Abby is a family man, as well as a very intelligent guy. I can't see him staying in Football too long if he has to choose between it and his future health.

The coaching staff could get creative and line up two slot receivers on some plays or use Abbrederis as an underneath threat on the outside.

His injury history is concerning but he added weight this offseason to be more stout. I can't remember any talk about him wanting to retire after he suffered another concussion during training camp last season.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Abbrederis is the guy that no one is really talking about this offseason. Is there any chance that he surprises us all and wins the battle for the #3 job?

Not likely.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

I think there is a difference from knowing the playback in and out compared to Janis seeming consistently out of place. Read the recent article on Abbrederis to see what the Packers want out of their wrs. This a direct quote from McCarthy.

If Abbrederis is so superior to Janis in this regard, then why did he not out-perform him on every level against the Cardinals? Instead, it was the other way around. If Abbrederis is such a refined route runner and is wise beyond his years with the playbook, then that tells me that Janis has a much higher ceiling than him once he catches up in that regard.



All anyone seems to want to talk about is playbook this, playbook that. While obviously a comprehensive understanding of the offense is of high importance, the playbook is only part of the equation. Speed and strength aren't found in the playbook. The ability to catch the ball isn't in the playbook. The ability to improvise when a play goes bust? Not in the playbook. Playmaker instincts? Nope. Not in there either. Neither is size and physicality.

I think the only way Abbrederis makes the roster is if Davis is an immediate and obvious bust or if they keep 7 WR. Nelson, Cobb, Adams (despite his horrendous season), Janis and Montgomery are all pretty much locks unless one of them just totally screws up big time. If Davis shows up and does everything that is expected of a 5th round draft pick, then he'll make the roster too. That pretty much leaves Abbrederis as the odd man out. I have a hunch if Abbrederis had gone to play football at somewhere other than UW then there wouldn't be near as much fuss about him around here.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Abbrederis is so superior to Janis in this regard, then why did he not out-perform him on every level against the Cardinals? Instead, it was the other way around. If Abbrederis is such a refined route runner and is wise beyond his years with the playbook, then that tells me that Janis has a much higher ceiling than him once he catches up in that regard.

All anyone seems to want to talk about is playbook this, playbook that. While obviously a comprehensive understanding of the offense is of high importance, the playbook is only part of the equation. Speed and strength aren't found in the playbook. The ability to catch the ball isn't in the playbook. The ability to improvise when a play goes bust? Not in the playbook. Playmaker instincts? Nope. Not in there either. Neither is size and physicality.

I think the only way Abbrederis makes the roster is if Davis is an immediate and obvious bust or if they keep 7 WR. Nelson, Cobb, Adams (despite his horrendous season), Janis and Montgomery are all pretty much locks unless one of them just totally screws up big time. If Davis shows up and does everything that is expected of a 5th round draft pick, then he'll make the roster too. That pretty much leaves Abbrederis as the odd man out. I have a hunch if Abbrederis had gone to play football at somewhere other than UW then there wouldn't be near as much fuss about him around here.

There's no doubt that Janis has a higher ceiling than Abbrederis but that doesn't mean he will ever perform up to it on a regular basis.

Rodgers and the coaching staff have made it clear that a receiver not knowing the playbook or what to do on a broken play won't see the field. With McCarthy praising Abbrederis after last week's minicamp and Janis still running a ton of wrong routes in practice I have a hard time believing he has passed the former Badger on the depth chart.

BTW before the two Hail Mary catches by Janis, which is all about luck according to Nelson, he had similar numbers (5-44) to Abbrederis (4-55) in the playoff game at Arizona.

 

[bigbubbatd]

If Abbrederis is so superior to Janis in this regard, then why did he not out-perform him on every level against the Cardinals? Instead, it was the other way around. If Abbrederis is such a refined route runner and is wise beyond his years with the playbook, then that tells me that Janis has a much higher ceiling than him once he catches up in that regard.



All anyone seems to want to talk about is playbook this, playbook that. While obviously a comprehensive understanding of the offense is of high importance, the playbook is only part of the equation. Speed and strength aren't found in the playbook. The ability to catch the ball isn't in the playbook. The ability to improvise when a play goes bust? Not in the playbook. Playmaker instincts? Nope. Not in there either. Neither is size and physicality.

I think the only way Abbrederis makes the roster is if Davis is an immediate and obvious bust or if they keep 7 WR. Nelson, Cobb, Adams (despite his horrendous season), Janis and Montgomery are all pretty much locks unless one of them just totally screws up big time. If Davis shows up and does everything that is expected of a 5th round draft pick, then he'll make the roster too. That pretty much leaves Abbrederis as the odd man out. I have a hunch if Abbrederis had gone to play football at somewhere other than UW then there wouldn't be near as much fuss about him around here.

So many thing to say but captain covered some. Here is how you know the coaches like Abby more. When all the injuries were happening Janis couldn't stay on the field because of not knowing what he was doing. The moment Abby came off either ir or pup he was on the field.

Here is my hunch that isn't really a hunch. One game samples are not great ways to decide who is better. Look at a season and listen to how the coaches talk. I think Janis will out perform Abby but that is only bc Abby doesn't play outside where the need is but there is zero doubt that Abby is way further ahead in his development.

Here is another hunch. If Janis didn't play special teams we wouldn't be having this convo bc he wouldn't be on the roster.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Janis didn't play special teams we wouldn't be having this convo bc he wouldn't be on the roster.

Mostly agree with what you said but Janis made the roster during his rookie season without playing on special teams. He might have to fight for a spot on the 53 without his contributions on ST though.

 

[Mondio]

I can't write either one off. Abbrederis is obviously working hard, If he's healthy, I think he's easily a 45+ reception guy for about any team. A nice addition to the receiving corps and certainly capable of more than that. Janis too, he shows just how badly he wants to be on this team thru his effort. I can't speak to the rest of the game, but he was absolutely unstoppable as a gunner on ST last year. He took his opportunity and basically said, "you can't cut me from this team".

I like that attitude, I like that effort. I can certainly see why the coaches haven't put him in a t WR more, to me it's fairly obvious, but the kid works hard. that will be enough to get him some more opportunities and see what he can do.

I can see a situation where either of these 2 make or don't make the team this year. I'm hoping they both elevate their games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I can see a situation where either of these 2 make or don't make the team this year. I'm hoping they both elevate their games.

Janis is a lock to make the team because of his performance on special teams.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Mostly agree with what you said but Janis made the roster during his rookie season without playing on special teams. He might have to fight for a spot on the 53 without his contributions on ST though.

That is true but Thompson hates cutting draft picks year one so I don't know how much that plays into it. I dont see how he stays on the team without sts since he could see the field at wr when Nelson, Adams, Montgomery and Abbrederis were out. That shows me he wasn't on the team for wr skills. Hopefully he can be this year

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The other thing to remember about Abby, he was out his entire rookie year when he tore his ACL in camp and then last year missed most of preseason with a concussion. As long as Abby can stay healthy, I think he is going to show just why the Packers like him and it has nothing to do with being a former Badger.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That is true but Thompson hates cutting draft picks year one so I don't know how much that plays into it. I dont see how he stays on the team without sts since he could see the field at wr when Nelson, Adams, Montgomery and Abbrederis were out. That shows me he wasn't on the team for wr skills. Hopefully he can be this year

Thompson has released draft picks before with Christian Ringo, a sixth round pick in 2015, being the latest on that list. While I agree that Janis' body of work during his first two years with the Packers wouldn't result in him being a lock to make the team as a receiver I would expect the team to hold on to him because of his potential.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Thompson has released draft picks before with Christian Ringo, a sixth round pick in 2015, being the latest on that list. While I agree that Janis' body of work during his first two years with the Packers wouldn't result in him being a lock to make the team as a receiver I would expect the team to hold on to him because of his potential.

That makes sense although I think he would be on the wrong side of the bubble

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

There's no doubt that Janis has a higher ceiling than Abbrederis but that doesn't mean he will ever perform up to it on a regular basis.

Rodgers and the coaching staff have made it clear that a receiver not knowing the playbook or what to do on a broken play won't see the field. With McCarthy praising Abbrederis after last week's minicamp and Janis still running a ton of wrong routes in practice.

Link? I cannot find any report of Janis running "a ton of wrong routes." Maybe we have different definitions of the word "tons." However, I do read reports of him frequently burning our best DBs in practice. As far as knowing what to do on a broken play, I think Janis did just fine with that 5 months ago. Again, Abbrederis is on the bubble with Davis and Janis is competing for the third starting spot, as well as being a lock based on his special teams prowess. I fail to see where that puts Abbrederis higher on any as yet to be determined depth chart, except in the minds of Badger fans.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Link? I cannot find any report of Janis running "a ton of wrong routes." Maybe we have different definitions of the word "tons." However, I do read reports of him frequently burning our best DBs in practice. As far as knowing what to do on a broken play, I think Janis did just fine with that 5 months ago. Again, Abbrederis is on the bubble with Davis and Janis is competing for the third starting spot, as well as being a lock based on his special teams prowess. I fail to see where that puts Abbrederis higher on any as yet to be determined depth chart, except in the minds of Badger fans.

First of all I don't care about Abbrederis having played for the Badgers.

There have been several reports of Janis once again running wrong routes at different times during practices this offseason. Every single Packers fan is well aware of the fact that Janis can get behind defensive backs on a go route but that alone won't be enough to get on the field regularly, especially when dropping perfectly thrown balls on plays like that.

Last season Janis was behind Abbrederis on the depth chart although the former Wisconsin star missed most of training camp for the second consecutive season. With McCarthy praising Abby last week there's absolutely no reason to believe Janis has moved past him this offseason.

I agree that Janis will make the roster because of his performance on special teams but I don't see him ending up starting opposite Nelson.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

So many thing to say but captain covered some. Here is how you know the coaches like Abby more. When all the injuries were happening Janis couldn't stay on the field because of not knowing what he was doing. The moment Abby came off either ir or pup he was on the field.

Yes, he was pretty much handed a roster spot on a golden platter and got a quick ticket to to playing time and he did very little with it once they put him there. He had 3 catches in one game, 4 in another and was Mr. Invisible the rest of the time.

Here is my hunch that isn't really a hunch. One game samples are not great ways to decide who is better. Look at a season and listen to how the coaches talk. I think Janis will out perform Abby but that is only bc Abby doesn't play outside where the need is but there is zero doubt that Abby is way further ahead in his development.

You're right. And it is for that very reason that with Abbrederis, pretty much is what he is. He doesn't have a whole lot of upside left to exploit, unless he finds a way to increase his athletic ability. Football isn't chess. You have to be smart, but you have to be an athlete too, and that is where he is limited. Both players have their limitations at this moment, but the limitations Janis has are more easily (and are being) overcome than Abbrederis's limitations.

Here is another hunch. If Janis didn't play special teams we wouldn't be having this convo bc he wouldn't be on the roster.

What's your point? Guys at the bottom half of the depth chart are always asked to contribute on special teams. Ask the guys he's been burning in practice, like Shields, Randall and C-D if they think he belongs on the roster. BTW, it's the very fact that Abbrederis doesn't contribute much to special teams that puts him on the bubble with Davis.

Look I know some fans still dream of Abbrederis starting this year, but here's why he's on the bubble, pure and simple:

Nelson, Cobb: No explanation needed.
Adams: High draft pick, unlikely they will dump him, also reportedly played hurt much of last year.
Janis: Special teams beast and is the only real alternative to Adams for the outside spot opposite Nelson.
Montgomery: Looked good until he got hurt and has a ton of versatility.
Davis: This will be who he is competing against for a spot unless they keep 7 WRs, which I doubt will happen.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

First of all I don't care about Abbrederis having played for the Badgers.

There have been several reports of Janis once again running wrong routes at different times during practices this offseason.

Okay, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to supply a few of those reports. I could only find one.

Every single Packers fan is well aware of the fact that Janis can get behind defensive backs on a go route but that alone won't be enough to get on the field regularly, especially when dropping perfectly thrown balls on plays like that.

Yes, let's not think about the ones he caught against those guys. Let's just worry about the one from Hundley that he dropped while double-covered (read: double. How many guys drew double coverage last year?).

What drops (plural) are you referring to? Obviously there's the Hundley throw but that's the only one I could find direct reference to. I also know when it mattered most, he out-leaped and out-fought Patrick Peterson and Rashad Johnson for an amazing catch. Or does sample size only matter to you on good plays? Also, Abbrederis dropped what should have been an easy catch in that game so lets not pretend Abbrederis catches everything thrown his way. We won't even discuss Adams. Horrible hands, that guy.

With McCarthy praising Abby last week there's absolutely no reason to believe Janis has moved past him this offseason.

He also said Abbrederis needs to get stronger and so forth. I'm not sure what "and so forth" means in his mind but I'm guessing it's in reference to his physical limitations and durability.

And in case you missed it, McCarthy praised Janis too. "Jeff Janis is doing a lot of good things. He just needs to continue to progress..." Note, he said "continue" not "start" which by definition means he is progressing.

I agree that Janis will make the roster because of his performance on special teams but I don't see him ending up starting opposite Nelson.

Then you must also agree that Abbrederis is fighting Davis and possibly Allison for the sixth roster spot. Montgomery is versatile and looked like a stud in the making before he sprained his ankle and Adams was a high draft pick and will probably be given another season to prove last year was just a fluke. And I'll believe the Packers will keep 7 WRs when MM changes his philosophy on the importance of tight ends.

 

[RRyder]

Link? I cannot find any report of Janis running "a ton of wrong routes." Maybe we have different definitions of the word "tons." However, I do read reports of him frequently burning our best DBs in practice. As far as knowing what to do on a broken play, I think Janis did just fine with that 5 months ago. Again, Abbrederis is on the bubble with Davis and Janis is competing for the third starting spot, as well as being a lock based on his special teams prowess. I fail to see where that puts Abbrederis higher on any as yet to be determined depth chart, except in the minds of Badger fans.

He was higher on the depth chart, as an outside WR no less, just last season in the minds of the coaching staff. Pretty sure they're not all Badger fans.

This is backed up by the fact he played AHEAD of Janis on the OUTSIDE just last season.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

He was higher on the depth chart, as an outside WR no less, just last season in the minds of the coaching staff. Pretty sure they're not all Badger fans.

This is backed up by the fact he played AHEAD of Janis on the OUTSIDE just last season.

And when Janis finally got a legitimate shot in the final game last year, HE PRODUCED. That tells me that every Packers writer and the fans who were calling for him to play from mid-season on were RIGHT. It's time to quit harping on about "trust" and start talking about having some faith.

 

[RRyder]

And when Janis finally got a legitimate shot in the final game last year, HE PRODUCED. That tells me that every Packers writer and the fans who were calling for him to play from mid-season on were RIGHT. It's time to quit harping on about "trust" and start talking about having some faith.

And up untill the last two plays which even Jordy refers to as luck Abby produced just as much.

In any case one game is NOT PROOF of anything.

Once again Samkon Gado people.

 

[OldSchool101]

We see so many players with potential come and go through the years, even high rated draft picks fade away regularly on every team and every position year after year so I'm not confused why so many of us fans take a more conservative approach to the individual success or failure of a Divisiin II player that was nearly undrafted.
Jeff Janis was clearly picked due to his physical attributes and measurables. His speed is *** for tat with 5th round pick Trevor Davis, yet Jeff is 30 lbs heavier which is unbelievable. He also performed at a high level in college (albeit a Division II school)
After a very successful campaign amassing 20.2 yards a catch in 2011.. Jeff was given a more serious look in 2012 and he responded by leading ALL division II WR's In yardage (#1 in the country) and also recorded 17 TDs
By the draft, his grade estimated him at 4th-5th round pick in 2014. the primary reason Jeff slid was the question "would Jeff translate his highly athletic play against more formidable defensive backs at the next level??"

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jeff-janis?id=2543750


Jeff Janis wasn't even a starting caliber WR (he was used primarily as a ST gunner all year 2015) and went into an NFL divisional playoff game against arguably one of the best DBs playing today and smoked him IMO. If we concede to the argument that he has a poor grip on the playbook? What we he do if he mastered the playbook? Scary
I believe we knew all along Jeff was a project and was a bit raw and would take extra time to develop as a dedicated WR which is why he was put on ST (which he dominated btw). IF Jeff continues to improve even in the slightest? He will be one of the most valuable 7th round picks weve acquired in years.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

And up untill the last two plays which even Jordy refers to as luck Abby produced just as much.

And where was Abbrederis when he was needed on those two plays? BTW, it's not luck when you go up against a Pro Bowl CB and WIN. The only luck on a Hail Mary is whether or not there is a legitimate opportunity to make the play. Beyond that, it's execution. I seriously doubt if Abbrederis had done what Janis did you'd be on here dismissing it as "luck." You act as if that was some kind of easy catch. The only other receiver on the roster who would have made that catch is Nelson. The rest wouldn't have been capable of making that leap.

In any case one game is NOT PROOF of anything.

It was proof that he should have been used earlier to open up the field. It was proof that he's not intimidated by the pro game. And it's proof that he can be a productive NFL WR.

Once again Samkon Gado people.

He's not Sam Gado.