covid will trash the 2021 cap.

[HardRightEdge]

yup but their guaranteed obligations to him will have been met, and then some, at the end of the 2020 season. nothing will be owed for 2021 if they part ways before the 3rd day of the league year in mid march. i also hope it doesn't go down to $175.

It could be less than $175 mil. That's the current minimum assuming all regular season games are played with socially distanced attendance at around 20%. If games are cancelled expect another renegotiation and a side letter amendment to the previous side letter amendment to the CBA.

I'm not sure what you would expect to happen under your scenario. Even in Love's year two the odds are far greater that he's terrible (because most QBs at this draft position and even higher turn out that way) than even a pale immitation of Mahomes or even Rodgers. Rodgers remains an elite QB. If you don't believe me, consider a recent poll of 50 front office folk, scouts and players. They named three elite QBs: Mahomes, Jackson and Rodgers. Stats are for fantasy players when the eye test says something very different.

If you think you're going to run your way to the Super Bowl, with an offensive line that will have to be rebuilt in the mean time, good luck with that. All this SF comparison nonsense with the RB/H-back draft overlooks something important: take a look at SF's O-line, a bunch of high pick studs. Staley retires? They go out spend some good coin on a high value replacement. The Packers are going backwards and it looks like it will get worse before it gets better, down Bulaga this year, Linsley next year, and a good chance Bakhtiari will join Linsley. Lets hope the next OT is better than Spriggs, regardless of who's at QB.

 

[gbgary]

Love is currently in a red shirt year. No OTAs, no preseason, and only about three weeks of on-field camp before week 1 game prep begins. Once the games begin, "nobody learns anything holding a clipboard," to once again borrow from Ariens.

Love starting in 2021 in what will amount to a rookie season, with a scant $5 mil in cap savings with Rodgers release or trade, in a $175 mil cap season with the Packers among the teams in the worst shape in terms of current 2021 cap commitments plus the free agent class, your proposal for 2021 would certainly lead to something quite ugly.

we'll see. it's going to be a crash course and his response will decide everything.

 

[HardRightEdge]

we'll see. it's going to be a crash course and his response will decide everything.

What response? No preseason and in all liklihood no regular season play for Love except maybe some garbage time.

Will they even be letting reporters in for practices? If not, we won't even be treated to a glowing report of a completed downfield pass to a second team receiver against a third team cornerback in a 7-on-7 drill.

Barring a Rodgers injury you will have no clue whatsoever. LaFleur will have good things to say about Love whether he means it or not. It's not like there's a option. Expect something like, "He has a lot to learn and he's coming in under difficult circumstances, but he's coming along. We like what we've seen so far." And you'll have no basis to judge and LaFleur will not have much more than that.

Demovsky quoted LaFleur saying yesterday that he sees Rodgers with the Packers "for a really long time." Now you have a problem. LaFleur doesn't have the option to say otherwise whether he believes that or not. And if you don't believe that then you have a problem because anything good that might be said about Love might be equally politic.

You're flying blind with no "response" to see with your own eyes and a head coach you won't be able to believe.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

yup but their guaranteed obligations to him will have been met, and then some, at the end of the 2020 season. nothing will be owed for 2021 if they part ways before the 3rd day of the league year in mid march.

The Packers most likely won't have any clue if Love will be able to develop into even a decent quarterback at the pro level at that point. Yet you want them to move on from a HOFer. Crazy.

we'll see. it's going to be a crash course and his response will decide everything.

There's no way Love will be able to respond somehow to anything as he probably won't receive any meaningful snaps all season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's an interesting tidbit of the CBA the league and players association agreed to yesterday:

The management council informed clubs that signing bonus proration -- not just unearned salary and bonuses -- will be removed from the 2020 cap immediately upon notification a player is opting out, per sources.

That means the Packers save another $1 million in cap space for this season with Funchess having opted out.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That's an interesting tidbit of the CBA the league and players association agreed to yesterday:

The management council informed clubs that signing bonus proration -- not just unearned salary and bonuses -- will be removed from the 2020 cap immediately upon notification a player is opting out, per sources.

That is quite interesting. They must have read my post about the cap inequities associated with signing bonuses in opt outs. I swear, these guys can't see past their noses when it comes to rules of all kinds leading to do-overs like this.

It would be smart to carry over the 2020 signing bonus cap amount as well as the salary into 2021 with contracts extended a year. I'm not finding a report off-hand to see if that's happening or if they are simply waiving that signing bonus cap cost. If they're waiving it we'll see another do-over at some point when the implications sink in.

The only way the cap can function equitably is if cash paid = cap cost sooner or later.

To take one example, Joey Bosa's new extention includes a $35 mil signing bonus prorated over five years with a $7 mil cap charge for that bonus in 2020. If he decided to opt out they will have him under contract through 2026 instead of 2025 under the same terms except that if the 2020 signing bonus proration is not carried over against the cap, that $35 mil bonus cash will only count $28 mil against the cap over the long haul with a $7 mil cap free lunch for the Chargers in 2021.

That would be inequitable to say the least. I'm not going to figure out contract terms for the raft of players opting out in New England, but it's not hard to see that the unjustified cap windfalls in 2021 could be quite substantial for some team with a bunch of opt outs if those signing bonus prorations are not carried forward against the cap.

That means the Packers save another $1 million in cap space for this season with Funchess having opted out.

It won't do much good if that $1 mil signing bonus is tolled against the cap in 2021 since we would expect several million in cap space to be carried over to 2021 anyway.

 

[gbgary]

What response? No preseason and in all liklihood no regular season play for Love except maybe some garbage time.

Will they even be letting reporters in for practices? If not, we won't even be treated to a glowing report of a completed downfield pass to a second team receiver against a third team cornerback in a 7-on-7 drill.

Barring a Rodgers injury you will have no clue whatsoever. LaFleur will have good things to say about Love whether he means it or not. It's not like there's a option. Expect something like, "He has a lot to learn and he's coming in under difficult circumstances, but he's coming along. We like what we've seen so far." And you'll have no basis to judge and LaFleur will not have much more than that.

Demovsky quoted LaFleur saying yesterday that he sees Rodgers with the Packers "for a really long time." Now you have a problem. LaFleur doesn't have the option to say otherwise whether he believes that or not. And if you don't believe that then you have a problem because anything good that might be said about Love might be equally politic.

You're flying blind with no "response" to see with your own eyes and a head coach you won't be able to believe.

"what response?" he'll have this camp, a season's worth of practice reps, maybe some garbage time. the coaches knew they had something in rodgers when he made all the throws in practice and showed he understood the O in meetings, etc. the same will go for Love. THAT "response." again...the cap situation will probably have more to say about Love's status in 2021 than anything else. they already know what he's got physically, that he can make all the throws, that he's smart. it's not like they moved up to draft him without doing their homework. he just needs to show them he's ready. and again, they're not realistic contenders. they're just treading water with rodgers and no significant cap space to keep their best guys and, ultimately, to get better.

 

[HardRightEdge]

"what response?" he'll have this camp, a season's worth of practice reps, maybe some garbage time. the coaches knew they had something in rodgers when he made all the throws in practice and showed he understood the O in meetings, etc. the same will go for Love.

You didn't answer the question. Which reports are you going to believe? You evidently don't believe the LaFluer statement that he expects Rodgers to be around for "a very long time." Why would you believe some glowing report about Love, if there is such a report, based on quick takes in this truncated off-season?

Ordinarily, one can judge preliminarily for one's self with one's own eyes in preseason. We won't be able to do that. Again, which statement would you believe?

If you're going to believe that LaFleur will be installing run-first principles in this offense while padded practices don't start until August 17 there won't be much time for grooming. Love will have to get up to speed by osmosis followed by a lot of clipboard holding. What that speed might be we'll have no clue unless Rodgers gets injured until we get to the 2021 preseason and frankly neither will this brain trust.

As for that bolded passage above, the idea that Love will be a physical and mental reboot of Aaron Rodgers is a silly assumption. Maybe he will, probably won't, but the long history of QBs at this draft position and even higher is pretty bad, let alone getting to a Rodgers level. And it's not like Gutekunst has yet demonstrated any particular genius in his first two drafts.

You've made it clear you don't like Rodgers' "attitude". That's really all you've got at this juncture, a faulty perception in my book to begin with. What you or I might think of his attitude is beside the point. It's Mark Murphy's perception of attitude that matters. He's the guy that negotiated Rodgers contract extension and you can bet your bottom cap dollar that he's the guy who signed off on the conversion of roster bonus to signing bonus last December making it that much harder to get rid of him down the road with that much more dead cap.

Gutekunst, Ball, LaFleur--they all were reporting to Murphy as uber-GM and I've seen no report that has changed. That LaFleur "very long time" may well be from Murphy's mouth to LaFleur's ear.

There is no permanence, only probablilities, and right now the only high probability is that you'll be spending next offseason in a sour mood once they pay Rodgers that $6.8 mil 2021 roster bonus.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It would be smart to carry over the 2020 signing bonus cap amount as well as the salary into 2021 with contracts extended a year. I'm not finding a report off-hand to see if that's happening or if they are simply waiving that signing bonus cap cost.

The tweet I linked to doesn't specifically mention it but the prorated portion of the signing bonus won't be waived but count against the cap next season as well.

The only way the cap can function equitably is if cash paid = cap cost sooner or later.

I don't think that will ever happen as the league would have to fully guarantee contracts for it to work with huge signing bonuses being a thing of the past in that case.

It won't do much good if that $1 mil signing bonus is tolled against the cap in 2021 since we would expect several million in cap space to be carried over to 2021 anyway.

I understand, just wanted to mention it.

he'll have this camp, a season's worth of practice reps, maybe some garbage time. the coaches knew they had something in rodgers when he made all the throws in practice and showed he understood the O in meetings, etc. the same will go for Love. THAT "response." again...he just needs to show them he's ready. and again, they're not realistic contenders.

It took Rodgers until his third season to show a glimpse of what he might be capable of when he nearly brought the Packers back at Dallas after replacing Favre.

All of that while receiving significantly more reps in practice than quarterbacks currently get because of changes that were made in the previous CBA as well as playing in three full preseasons.

That didn't stop Thompson from selecting quarterbacks in the second (Brohm) and seventh (Flynn) rounds of the 2008 draft before handing over the reigns to Rodgers because he wasn't convinced the fourth year QB would develop into a decent starter.

Yet you want the Packers to transition to Love next year without him even receiving preseason snaps to save $5 million in cap space. As I've mentioned before that is crazy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't think that will ever happen as the league would have to fully guarantee contracts for it to work with huge signing bonuses being a thing of the past in that case.

That's how it has worked since at least the 2011 CBA. Except for the $350,000 opt out stipends this year, I cannot think of an instance where a cash payment does not eventually count against the cap nor a cap charge that does not equate to a cash payment.

The operative terms are "sooner or later" or "eventually".

Waived signing bonus prorations against the 2020 cap carrying over to 2021 follows this principle.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's how it has worked since at least the 2011 CBA. Except for the $350,000 opt out stipends this year, I cannot think of an instance where a cash payment does not eventually count against the cap nor a cap charge that does not equate to a cash payment.

Maybe I misunderstood your previous post as it seemed to me you wanted the cash paid to a player count towards the cap in the same season.

It's true that every dollar paid to a player counts against the cap at some point.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Maybe I misunderstood your previous post...

Yes.

 

[gopkrs]

"nobody learns anything holding a clipboard," to once again borrow from Ariens.

I certainly disagree with this. I hope Love is smart enough and motivated enough to retain quite a bit.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I've always thought that the draft last month was in part due to uncertainty about the pandemic and economics. College football probably isn't going to happen (or at least not all the teams) which means the 2021 draft is going to be even more of a crapshoot since you won't have current tape on many draftees. Then, of course, there is the economic side. Less money coming in, less money to pay out for bonuses and now, probably a reduced cap. That means they need to shed $ and the biggest contract is Rodgers and a necessity to get a cheap back because Jones isn't going to be paid by the Packers.

If that was their thought going in, it was an calculated gamble that this season would be at best, bad economically and at worst, lost.

I said this back in May and stand by it. I think last years draft ultimately was a hedge on no football at any level in 2020 and a realization that you might need to shed salary for economic reasons. If a team has a need for a QB in 2021, good luck depending on tape from 2019.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If a team has a need for a QB in 2021, good luck depending on tape from 2019.

I don't know why you say that. The Packers just drafted a QB in the first round based on 2018 tape. Unless you mean good luck with that.

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't know why you say that. The Packers just drafted a QB in the first round based on 2018 tape. Unless you mean good luck with that.

Agreed, and what a juicy tape too. Skills and abilities that cannot be taught. Very smooth, fluid athlete. Hope he is sharp and adaptable mentally to coaching and is steady and assured with himself.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I don't know why you say that. The Packers just drafted a QB in the first round based on 2018 tape. Unless you mean good luck with that.

Don't even know what you are trying to be witty about so, whatever.

Regardless, they still had 2018/2019 tape to review. Now do a draft with 2 year old tape on everyone. Massive crap shoot across the board.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I certainly disagree with this. I hope Love is smart enough and motivated enough to retain quite a bit.

Love will benefit from being in meetings with the coaches and Rodgers but that's not as valuable as actually getting playing time. Teams not having any preseason games only makes matters worse for the development during his rookie campaign.

I said this back in May and stand by it. I think last years draft ultimately was a hedge on no football at any level in 2020 and a realization that you might need to shed salary for economic reasons.

I think that's a lame try at having an explanation for a terrible draft.

Agreed, and what a juicy tape too. Skills and abilities that cannot be taught. Very smooth, fluid athlete.

Love struggled against the only Power 5 conference opponent he faced during the 2018 season as well. Those skills shouldn't be taught to anyone.

Now do a draft with 2 year old tape on everyone. Massive crap shoot across the board.

It will definitely be even more difficult to hit on draft picks in 2021 if the college football season is canceled this year. Teams select prospects based on two year old tape all the time though, Love being just one example.

 

[gbgary]

You didn't answer ...

There is no permanence, only probabilities, and right now the only high probability is that you'll be spending next offseason in a sour mood once they pay Rodgers that $6.8 mil 2021 roster bonus.

MLF's PC Rodgers pronouncements in pressers at this point of the season mean nothing to me. it's not his decision. it'll be Gute's (he said yesterday Murphy's letting him run all the football stuff {as he should...it's his job} but they keep him in the loop). yes, we won't have preseason to see him. we'll have to just go by the reports the people covering the team say. i never said Love was a mental and physical "reboot of Rodgers." i'm repeating what scouts and others have said about him...that he can make all the throws, he's very athletic, and he's smart. obviously there's nothing from this off-season. i said he'll have to show he's ready just as Rodgers did. no i don't like Rodgers' attitude but what i dislike the most is his cap hit after this season. the sooner they can get out from under it the better. my hope is Love shows he has it, gets it, and they can move on after this season. he doesn't have to show he can run the Rodgers offense. he has to show he can the MLF offense. an offense you don't have to be a HOF'er to run. why our HOF'er hasn't wanted to run it i don't know. probably because the middle of the field has to be used. lol...you're probably right.

 

[gbgary]

It took Rodgers until his third season to show a glimpse of what he might be capable of when he nearly brought the Packers back at Dallas after replacing Favre.

All of that while receiving significantly more reps in practice than quarterbacks currently get because of changes that were made in the previous CBA as well as playing in three full preseasons.

That didn't stop Thompson from selecting quarterbacks in the second (Brohm) and seventh (Flynn) rounds of the 2008 draft before handing over the reigns to Rodgers because he wasn't convinced the fourth year QB would develop into a decent starter.

Yet you want the Packers to transition to Love next year without him even receiving preseason snaps to save $5 million in cap space. As I've mentioned before that is crazy.

sitting on his @$$ for 3 years didn't do Rodgers any good. it was just something he was forced to do by circumstance. yes i want them to move on. it's crazy to the cheerleaders here but treading water with Rodgers gets them nothing but deeper in the cap hell and less talented.

 

[HardRightEdge]

MLF's PC Rodgers pronouncements in pressers at this point of the season mean nothing to me. it's not his decision. it'll be Gute's (he said yesterday Murphy's letting him run all the football stuff {as he should...it's his job} but they keep him in the loop).

I don't know why you choose to believe one proclamation from management and not the other. Drafting for LaFluer's presumptive schematic preferences, as the story goes, looks like a lot more than "in the loop". Then again, that's a presumption to be taken with a grain of salt which begs the question of other factors, such as the Gutekunst proclamation, channeling Wolf, that you can't have too many good QBs, the RBs in their contract years, a sketchy FB/TE situation after failing to sign Hooper and no FB even on the roster at draft time. Gutekunst did not draft a WR because, he said, the guys available at the bottom of the first round would not likely contribute in their rookie years more than the incumbents, a dubious proposition on its face. So, according to your theory he should have drafted one to run with Love in year two, with Adams in his contract year no less at that time.

Public commentary from the principals relative to each other and their actions are all over the place. I still have not heard from you a compelling reason to believe one commentary vs. another other than confirmation bias.

You can bet your bottom dollar that when the time comes to make the final Rodgers decision Murphy will be signing off on that, just as he negotiatiated Rodgers last contract and surely the renegotiation that followed last December.

By the way, LaFluer has built audible options into every play. When Rodgers doesn't run the LaFleur offense, whatever you believe that to be, he's actually running the LaFluer offense whether you want to believe that or not.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Agreed, and what a juicy tape too. Skills and abilities that cannot be taught. Very smooth, fluid athlete. Hope he is sharp and adaptable mentally to coaching and is steady and assured with himself.

And then the 2019 tape shows something very different--highlight tapes with highlights that are not even highlights. Often times a triumph of the uncluttered mind is followed by a regression of the cluttered mind.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

i said he'll have to show he's ready just as Rodgers did. no i don't like Rodgers' attitude but what i dislike the most is his cap hit after this season. the sooner they can get out from under it the better. my hope is Love shows he has it, gets it, and they can move on after this season. he has to show he can the MLF offense.

How do you think Love will be able to show that he's ready to run MLF's offense when he won't even receive preseason snaps??? In addition you can be assured that practice reps will be limited for him this year as well.

Once again, it's crazy to solely consider Rodgers' cap hit when talking about his future with the team but completely ignoring the drop in talent the team would have to endure at the most important position on the roster.

sitting on his @$$ for 3 years didn't do Rodgers any good. it was just something he was forced to do by circumstance. yes i want them to move on. it's crazy to the cheerleaders here but treading water with Rodgers gets them nothing but deeper in the cap hell and less talented.

Rodgers definitely benefitted from having to sit on the bench for three years. It's no secret that you want the Packers to move on from him (even worse you're in favor of the team releasing him) but it's a terrible idea as it's close to impossible to adequately replace a HOF quarterback.

 

[PikeBadger]

sitting on his @$$ for 3 years didn't do Rodgers any good. it was just something he was forced to do by circumstance. yes i want them to move on. it's crazy to the cheerleaders here but treading water with Rodgers gets them nothing but deeper in the cap hell and less talented.

Rodgers was not ready to be a starting QB in his first two years with the Packers. Some will say he wasn’t even ready in year 3.

 

[PikeBadger]

Love struggled against the only Power 5 conference opponent he faced during the 2018 season as well. Those skills shouldn't be taught to anyone.

he displayed high level NFL arm and footWork skills. His physical skills are more advanced than his decision making skills right now. He has better arm and foot skills than Burrow right now imo.