covid will trash the 2021 cap.

gopkrs

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Back to the Covid thing. Will anyone think that the next (assuming we have one this year) Super Bowl will be tainted if there are no fans in the stands? For me, it will not. And I will be just as hyped to get the TV going and watch the Green and Yellow. WE go all the way this year.
 
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There's another way if the Packers front office is extremely confident about Love being a franchise quarterback. They could follow the Chiefs blueprint and move on from Rodgers with Love showing promise in limited action during his rookie campaign as well.

For the record, I wouldn't consider that to be a smart move at all.
Of course it would not be a smart move. If not on its face, then you need more somethin' somethin' on the reward side to help offset the risk.

$4.8 mil in cap savings doesn't cut it. When the Chiefs traded Smith to Washington, they saved $15.6 mil in cap and got Kendall Fuller (promising at the time) and a 3rd. round pick in return.

Besides, any Smith-Mohomes gap in a projection when not knowing exactly what the young player would do is narrower than any Rodgers-Love gap predicated on the latter playing a couple of games and throwing 50 balls. I think you need more on the reward side of the equation to justify the transition.

And you really can't compare the Favre-Rodgers transition to this situation given that Favre could not be counted on to show up to training camp, if at all, from one January to the next spring. You have to have a plan for this kind of thing and Favre was frustrating that planning.

2022, with the Rodgers departure yielding $22.7 mil in cap savings, you're getting into some serious compensation for the risk plus whatever you might get in trade. Rodgers cost to a new team for the last two years on his contract would be $52 mil, pretty attractive if Rodgers puts up a 2021 season like Smith in his final KC year.

The point I was making is that getting Rodgers to take a salary cut to make him more attractive in a trade is the least likely of a wide range of possibilities. At one of the spectrum, the team sh*ts the bed behind Rodgers and he becomes the scapegoat, or Rodgers is injured and Love plays great, accelerating the process. At the other end of the spectrum, Love looks as clueless as Kizer in limited action or Rodgers wins a Super Bowl in which case he isn't going anywhere unless he changes his mind and retires.

And if that isn't enough uncertainty, we don't even know how much football will even be played this year.

One thing is for sure. They didn't take Love to be a backup insurance policy or for develop-and-trade value.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Back to the Covid thing. Will anyone think that the next (assuming we have one this year) Super Bowl will be tainted if there are no fans in the stands? For me, it will not. And I will be just as hyped to get the TV going and watch the Green and Yellow. WE go all the way this year.
I don't see "tainting" as an issue at all. Players say it will be strange to play without crowd noise, and maybe some guys need that to get their adreneline pumping, but they'll acclimate in pretty short order. In the sweep of history, nobody remembers which were the strike shortened seasons and nobody's championship banner hanging in the stadium has an asterisk. Home field advantage will be neutralized, and fans and media in places like Seattle or KC might grouse given their exceptionally loud crowds and "12th. Man" stuff, but that's going to sound like making excuses.

The league, the teams, the players, the media will go to some lengths to tell you this is the real deal. First, because it actually is the real deal because what happens on the field is the only thing that matters in the end. And second, because that's the side of the bread that is buttered. In the final analysis, woulda-shoulda-coulda is for the losers and we'll know who they are.

It occurs to me whether the NFL will allow teams to pipe in crowd noise as some teams have been alleged to do and others actually busted for it. Personally, I would consider that a travesty of fakery, an abomination in fact. I wouldn't put it past 'em, though.

There are plus factors in no crowds in the playing and watching. You'll probably get cleaner football without crowd noise disrupting communication. And you'll probably hear more of the communication, between players or even coaches yelling instructions from the sidelines which is generally not possible otherwise. Current rules turn off the helmet speakers with 15 seconds left on the play clock. With no crowd you could get verbal audibles from the sidelines up to the snap that you will hear. To me that makes the game more interesting to watch. That's providing the league and networks find the trash talking and foul language coming through loud and clear to be excessive and then dial back the audio. That would be disappointing.

I actually like watching golf on TV without the crowds. You don't have people oohing and aahing over mediocre shots, or cameras clicking or people talking in a guy's backswing, or that chronically stupid and annoying "in the hole" and "baba booey" yelling from the crowd. What you might miss is moments like:

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Those kinds of moments are once in a generation.

The real issue is revenue and profitability. The Packers, an average reveune NFL team, will absolutely lose money with empty stadiums. There's lost seat and skybox revenue that's dead red right to the bottom line. There's the highly profitable parking, concessions and merch. There's whatever profit comes from the Titletown district. All teams are in the same boat. The most profitable teams are such because of the outsized revenue and profit that comes out of the stadium and whatever financial interests they have in the surrounding area. Missed games without the TV revenue takes very bad to worse.
 
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Of course it would not be a smart move. If not on its face, then you need more somethin' somethin' on the reward side to help offset the risk.

$4.8 mil in cap savings doesn't cut it. When the Chiefs traded Smith to Washington, they saved $15.6 mil in cap and got Kendall Fuller (promising at the time) and a 3rd. round pick in return.

Besides, any Smith-Mohomes gap in a projection when not knowing exactly what the young player would do is narrower than any Rodgers-Love gap predicated on the latter playing a couple of games and throwing 50 balls. I think you need more on the reward side of the equation to justify the transition.

Once again, I'm definitely not advocating for the Packers to trade Rodgers after this season but you have to consider that they would receive some pretty hefty compensation to compare it to the Chiefs moving on from Smith and replace him with Mahomes.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Rachel Lenzi, a writer for my local daily paper the Buffalo News, published a piece today compiling publicly disclosed instances of Covid-19 positive tests at FBS football programs. Some don't disclose at all, some report simply "multiple", others have provided stale info dating back to early June. Among those reporting recently, we have the following programs with the most positive tests:

Clemson - June 27 - 37 cases
Texas Tech - June 26 - 23 cases
Florida - June 23 - 11 cases

Back on June 4, Alabama reported 8 cases and Arkansas State reported 7. Kentucky, New Mexico St., Louisianna-Lafayette and Louisianna-Monroe reported 5 or 6 among the recent reports.

Houston, Texas A&M and Texas reported 5 or 6 in mid-June.

That covers all the schools who have reported 5 or more cases, again with a lot of other reports with smaller numbers quite stale.

14 schools said they will not be reporting at all, including SUNY Buffalo, Ohio State, Syracuse and Illinois. The other 10 are southern schools.

Draw your own conclusions.
 
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Sunshinepacker

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Back to the Covid thing. Will anyone think that the next (assuming we have one this year) Super Bowl will be tainted if there are no fans in the stands? For me, it will not. And I will be just as hyped to get the TV going and watch the Green and Yellow. WE go all the way this year.

When you say "fans", you really mean corporate tickets and advertisers, right?
 
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HardRightEdge

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Florida along with much of the southeast is rapidly approaching the point of no return.
 
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HardRightEdge

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heard the other day, on a national radio show, that the 2021 nfl team cap could be as much as $70m lower than this year's cap of $198.2m. to make up the difference teams, and players, will have tough decisions to make just to keep the cap flat.

more info...https://www.profootballnetwork.com/the-latest-on-the-potential-nfl-salary-cap-in-2021/#:~:text=Back at the beginning of,salary cap of $198.2 million.
With the owner/player revenue split at right around 50/50, that $70 mil would imply something like a 35% loss in revenue this year. That may be low even if all games are played, but let's go with that.

Here are the Packers contracts currently in force for 2021, 53 players at about $184 mil in cap cost.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

So, how do you get to a cap number of $198 mil - $70 mil + approx. $7 mil cap carryover = $135 mil? You have to find $50 mil in cap savings by cutting players. You might as well start with the big numbers or there's no chance of getting there as a mathematical possibility. The following player cuts yield the following cap savings:

Adams - $13.0 mil
Z. Smith - $10.8 mil
P. Smith - $8.0 mil
Kirksey - $6.0 mil
Rodgers - $4.8 mil
Amos - $4.6 mil
Lowry - $3.3 mil

OK, that's $50.5 mil in cuts to get right around the $135 mil team cap number. But you're not done yet. You're down to 46 players.

You definitely need your first three draft picks. Their cap cost this year is $5 mil. It goes up next year but l'm not going to figure that out. Let's use that $5 mil. Now you're at 49 players and $5 mil over the season-starting cap.

So, add 4 lower picks and UDFAs all around the rookie minimum. That's about $3 mil. Now you're at 53 players and $8 mil over the season-starting cap.

Practice squad? That will be around $2 mil. Now you're at $10 mil over the cap. Even with no cap reserve for injuries, where are we going to find that $10 mil?

Wagner - $4.3 mil
Turner - $3.6 mil
Crosby - $2.5 mil

Now you're right at the cap number but you're now 3 players short. More cuts:

Patrick - $1.5 mil
Jackson - $1.3 mil

Now you're 5 players short, but those Patrick/Jackson savings are enough to buy 4 minimum rookies leaving you one player short.

To get that one player you need to cut somebody with about $1.3 mil in cap savings, enough to sign that one needed player plus the other player to replace the one now being cut. There isn't one.

Using these rounded and approximate numbers you may not even be able to get from here to there as a mathematical possibility.

How unique is the Packer situation? Not very. There are 11 teams with higher 2021 cap liabilities currently on the books. This business of carving losses out of the 2021 cap to the tune of $70 mil lower cap than this year, or whatever the number eventually is, is simply not plausible. Just about any starter or star in the back half of his contract where savings can be found would be potential cuts with nobody else having the cap to sign him.

You should expect a negotiation with the NFLPA to get somewhere near a flat cap for multiple years until the growing TV revenue catches up and covers the losses. overthecap.com had estimated a $215 mil cap number for 2021, a $17 mil bump. If that number is close to correct and represents a steady ramp of reveue growth, it would take 4 years of flat cap to get back on track.
 
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heard the other day, on a national radio show, that the 2021 nfl team cap could be as much as $70m lower than this year's cap of $198.2m. to make up the difference teams, and players, will have tough decisions to make just to keep the cap flat.

more info...https://www.profootballnetwork.com/the-latest-on-the-potential-nfl-salary-cap-in-2021/#:~:text=Back at the beginning of,salary cap of $198.2 million.

The NFL and the players association will definitely agree on deal that will spread out the losses over the entire length of the CBA.

Otherwise the system wouldn't work as HRE pointed out correctly.
 
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PackAttack12

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The NFL and the players association will definitely agree on deal that will spread out the losses over the entire length of the CBA.

Otherwise the system wouldn't work as HRE pointed out correctly.
You and HRE killed his dream of cutting bait with Rodgers next season. How dare you.
 
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HardRightEdge

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The NFL and the players association will definitely agree on deal that will spread out the losses over the entire length of the CBA.

Otherwise the system wouldn't work as HRE pointed out correctly.
I don't know if they'd spread the losses over the entire length of the CBA, but it is certainly the case that the more years involved the more palatable it would be to the current voting members of the NFLPA.

It would certainly be in the self intest of current players to have contracts 10 years hence still paying for some the revenue loss as opposed to a bigger bite out of their own next negotiation.

Of all the theories floated, yours actually makes the most sense as the eventual conclusion frpm the players perspective. If $70 mil is the cap number to be made up, spreading that over 10 years would still allow for gradual cap increases every year if the new TV deals are as lucrative as we're led to believe.

The negatives of a 10 year spread of the losses falls to the owners. The opportunity cost of money would be to the owners disadvantage; their recovery from this seasons losses would be slower.

It may not be 10 years once the sausage is made, but a protracted period should be expected.

As an aside, that owners' option in the CBA to increase the season to 17 games? If it was not booked already consider it now booked.
 
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You and HRE killed his dream of cutting bait with Rodgers next season. How dare you.
We'd have to conclude that his dream was "cut everybody" under a $70 mil 2021 cap reduction.
 
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HardRightEdge

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i'm not dreaming about anything. just tossed some info out there. it's not my info. i just said the nflpa and teams will have some decisions to make. lol
Actually, given 95% of what one might read or hear is crap, when you throw out some random info without applying some analysis to it then it is your info.
 
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i'm not dreaming about anything. just tossed some info out there. it's not my info. i just said the nflpa and teams will have some decisions to make. lol

It might be smart to analyze information before posting it, evaluating if there's any way for it to be a realistic option.
 
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Deleted member 6794

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I don't know if they'd spread the losses over the entire length of the CBA, but it is certainly the case that the more years involved the more palatable it would be to the current voting members of the NFLPA.

Not surprisingly the players association seems to be in favor of spreading out the losses over the entire length of the CBA.

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gbgary

gbgary

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now the negotiations begin. ^^^^^


The league does have the potential to offer flexibility for their teams in 2021. They may decide to lessen the blow of 2020’s lost revenue by gradually decreasing the cap over a number of seasons. However, even that could see sequential big cuts in the salary cap of more than $20 million a year. What the league may decide is that by taking the bulk of the salary cap hit in 2021, they can protect their owners, while also bringing ever-rising player contracts back down and resetting the market at a lower rate.
 
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HardRightEdge

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now the negotiations begin. ^^^^^
You didn't link the quote or cite the source. Tsk, tsk. No matter. We have our own brains.

Given the example I presented above, I don't see taking even the bulk of the cap hit in 2021 as plausible. From a business standpoint that would be attractive to teams but most football operations people would be pretty unhappy, having to cut guys willy nilly where cap savings can be found. By the way, that would not be Rodgers. ;)

I suppose a few teams with a current hoard of cap space might savor the opportunity to pick up players on the cheap but I doubt you could get a 2/3 vote from the owners favoring trashing their rosters. You can be sure the NFLPA would not agree. The owners might make an opening position bluff to bring the players in from spreading the loss over the 10 years of the CBA which the owners certainly would not like for reasons that have nothing to do with resetting the market.

The following statement which you quoted is peculiar. I resist saying it's outright wrong though that's what I should say:

"What the league may decide is that by taking the bulk of the salary cap hit in 2021, they can protect their owners, while also bringing ever-rising player contracts back down and resetting the market at a lower rate."

The players share of revenue is set per the CBA. Once the losses are burned off with what I would surmise will be flat caps over several years, the full cap will be restored. Any resetting of the market would be temporary and at the margins. Regardless of how they spread the loss, over the long haul the players 48-49% of revenue is what goes into the cap no matter what. There are only two ways to reset the player market:

1) Renegotiate the CBA with a reduced % of revenue going to the players. That ain't gonna happen.

2) Clubs colluding to all spend under the cap. That would be illegal. Even if it wasn't that's the kind of cat herding that would never happen.

It's worth noting the old CBA required teams to spend 89% of their cap over a four year period. Few hugged that line, only the poor teams trying not to lose money, Oakland for example. Many spent every cap $ they could get their hands on. The Packers underspent the cap by an average of about $1 mil per year.

The new minimum is 90% cap spend over 3, 3, and 4 year periods. Don't like the market? Just spend 90% of your cap and let the other guys spend $20 mil more per year on vet contracts. Yeah, right.

So, what happens if you front load the losses into 2021? Again, lots of starters and stars get cut wherever teams can find cap savings. Those players would hit the market with most teams having nothing to spend, lots of players chasing few cap $'s. Those players will either sit out the year or sign one year deals at low money, more the former than the latter I would expect. By 2022, the full cap is restored, those players hit the market, and the player costs go right back up near the full cap just as before.

Again, no matter what, cap is cap, it gets spent, so it doesn't matter much over what years it will be spent. The financial issue for owners is simple...the time value of money. That is balanced with the desire to win.

There's one caveat: the estimated losses from empty stadiums is being grossly understated or not all games get played resulting in even larger losses. A couple of teams might be on the brink of insolvency as a result. That becomes a different picture entirely.
 
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HardRightEdge

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The NFL and its players association agreed to a deal to spread out the losses over the next four seasons with the cap being at a minimum of $175 million in 2021.
Makes sense. 4 years was what I projected above but based on different numbers. The $175 mil for next season is likely predicated on certain assumptions such as all games being played an a certain minimum of allowed attendance.

I would expect TV ratings to be boffo this season, kneeling for the anthem or not, which might bump up the TV revenue and the cap above that $175 mil.

If games are missed and revenue falls below a certain threshhold, then I would expect it go back to the negotiating table.

It could be worse. The Chiefs have $204 mil committed to the top 51 for 2021 and when you look at their players where cap savings can be found I don't see anybody they'd prefer not prefer to keep:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/kansas-city-chiefs/
 
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HardRightEdge

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My initial thought:

Most players age 30 and over have much to worry about in terms of job security. The average age in the league is going lower quickly I suspect.
If the cap for next year is in fact $175 mil, $23 mil less than this year, then it's not an over-30 issue per se. It's who yields cap savings if cut and their value relative value to others on the roster. I don't think Rodgers' $5 mil in savings is the first place to look. ;)
 

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