Brown traded to Raiders

[Pokerbrat2000]

Dollars to donuts Mack would be great anywhere.

I disagree completely. Mack would've boosted our defense significantly.

I'm not saying Mack wouldn't have improved the Packer defense, but given the players around him in Chicago, I think his stats are going to be better there.

 

[Stanger37]

I disagree completely. Mack would've boosted our defense significantly.

I don't doubt he would have been a boost to any defense across the league. But I think when you factor in Hicks, Floyd, Trevathan, AND Smith....unbiased, who on the Packers is better than those guys? Maybe Daniels & Perry on some occasions? Double team Mack and you have 3 other guys who were already good without Mack. He boosts the Packers 100% but adding him to a defensive front of killers already, his numbers were even better.

 

[sschind]

I love how all these talking heads are pitching Brown as a perfect fit for the Packers, yet don't bother to talk about the potential negatives of such a deal. In a complete bubble, AB could potentially improve any team.

Although he doesn't mention any of them specifically I think he does refer to them indirectly as the types of risks the Packers generally do not take. I would gather that he deems them rather insignificant and not worthy of consideration in the Packers case.

 

[sschind]

Mack would have been the best player on the Packers defense by far and our ranking would have been higher because of him but he would not have lifted us up to the level of the Bears. Not even close.

Mack's presence probably makes all your defensive players a bit more effective and when the majority of those players are already better (as was the case with the Bears) he turned a very good defense into a great one. He may have boosted the Packers defense to slightly above average.

Its possible that he would have had better numbers in Green Bay but I highly doubt he would have had the impact on the overall defense that he had in Chicago.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Mack would have been the best player on the Packers defense by far and our ranking would have been higher because of him but he would not have lifted us up to the level of the Bears. Not even close.

Mack's presence probably makes all your defensive players a bit more effective and when the majority of those players are already better (as was the case with the Bears) he turned a very good defense into a great one. He may have boosted the Packers defense to slightly above average.

Its possible that he would have had better numbers in Green Bay but I highly doubt he would have had the impact on the overall defense that he had in Chicago.

Agreed and besides the lost draft picks, handcuffs you cap wise for spending much more to improve or keep the best players around him.

 

[Stanger37]

Agreed and besides the lost draft picks, handcuffs you cap wise for spending much more to improve or keep the best players around him.

semi-off topic but that is a big reason, deep down, I think the Bears are going to be this years Jacksonville Jaguars. I think Mitch is going to take a step back and get exposed and it is going to exhaust the defense. and all that draft capitol given up is going to look silly. Mix that with their first place schedule this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see them win only 6-8 games.

 

[brandon2348]

So who wants to do the BLEACHED MUSTACHE at Lambeau? Wouldn't it be fun?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So who wants to do the BLEACHED MUSTACHE at Lambeau? Wouldn't it be fun?

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[brandon2348]

Not that i have been paying any attention.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...ardinals-trade-josh-rosen-draft-kyler-murray/

 

[brandon2348]

I thought I'd post this hear since this is relevant to this topic. And when you listen to him he does make some good points, especially with the Brady/Moss thing.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Ive been saying this for quite some time. Its like someone has been reading my posts.

 

[RRyder]

Ive been saying this for quite some time. Its like someone has been reading my posts.

I'm not sure having the worst sports commentator this side of Skip Bayless on your side is helping your argument as much as you think

 

[brandon2348]

I'm not sure having the worst sports commentator this side of Skip Bayless on your side is helping your argument as much as you think

I rarely agree with him but he pretty much nailed this one.

 

[LambeauLombardi]

People forget with Mack that Rodgers had to step away from him on the play he got hurt. Maybe Rodgers doesn't get injured this year if that doesn't happen, maybe he does.

I've heard some media say Steelers shouldn't expect more than a 3rd rounder for a 31 year old 9 year veteran. I've heard others say we need to give up a first for him. I initially said I'd only take a 4th for him then moved up to 3rd. I may be willing to go higher, but I guess I've turned into a sucker for good players even if they are a pain in the ***.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Steelers will be asking for as much as they can get from the pool of teams they would trade Brown to. However, besides changing their minds and trading to someone not on that list, they really are handcuffed and may just except the highest bidder, since I doubt there is any turning back at this point from trading him.

They also have the March 17th deadline before his $2.5M roster bonus kicks in. Depending on how many teams are in the conversation, I would let the Steelers pick up that roster bonus and make the trade official after 3/17. Obviously the last thing in play is despite the Steelers saying Brown will have no say in who he is traded to, I seriously doubt any team is going to invest in the guy if he won't play for them or his demand for a new contract is too cost prohibitive/makes him decide to hold out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Steelers imploded from the inside. It all started with Bell, and then it dragged on throughout the season. Plus they lost games they easily should've won, plus this is just me but Big Ben is a decent qb but he's not a QB like Rodgers when healthy.

While that's true there' no doubt the Steelers had more talent on offense last year than the Packers currently have and yet didn't make the playoffs.

I don't like the team to risk bringing in a locker room cancer like Brown while not believing the move would elevate them to a legit Super Bowl contender.

IMO we won’t know the true answer to the Khalil move until after another season or two. It’s a Cap vs Production argument and we’re early in the results of one side of a two sided equation.
We’re about to find out how the Chicago Cap comes into play over the next couple of years. Will Chicago improve? Will Chicago regress?
Will Mack improve? Will Mack regress?

Another thing to consider is that 2019 will most likely be the last season the Bears will benefit from having Trubisky on a rookie contract.

I disagree completely. Mack would've boosted our defense significantly.

True, Mack wouldn't have made the Packers a Super Bowl contender though. More importantly, the team would currently have only a small amount of cap space and significantly less early draft picks to improve the redt of the roster at this point.

 

[Do7]

While that's true there' no doubt the Steelers had more talent on offense last year than the Packers currently have and yet didn't make the playoffs.

I don't like the team to risk bringing in a locker room cancer like Brown while not believing the move would elevate them to a legit Super Bowl contender.



Another thing to consider is that 2019 will most likely be the last season the Bears will benefit from having Trubisky on a rookie contract.



True, Mack wouldn't have made the Packers a Super Bowl contender though. More importantly, the team would currently have only a small amount of cap space and significantly less early draft picks to improve the redt of the roster at this point.

Few things.

1. The Steelers as I mentioned imploded and lost several games that they easily could've/should've won, but they didn't.

2. I get that Brown's attitude can be an issue, but let's not forget that Big Ben threw the dude and singled him out on several occasions. Rodgers has never done that. And also I keep bringing this up but have you forgotten how much problems Charles Woodson was when he first arrived in Green Bay? If I understand correctly he almost went to blows with McCarthy one time. If we're so worried that one player is going to affect our locker room then that truly speaks to how pitiful we are as a culture. New England brought in Randy Moss, and he was able to fall in line. Are we incapable of doing the same with Brown? And also the way I see it, (and I've mentioned this) Brown knows what's being made about him in regards to his character. Do you honestly believe he'll risk misbehaving or giving credence to those claims, especially considering how he behaves will determine if anyone else picks him up once his time ends here should we acquire him. Think of it this way, if he acted up in both Pittsburgh and Green Bay, what are the odds of anyone else picking him up? And thus there goes his career. The way I see it, if we were to acquire him, we'd be holding all the cards.

3. The way I see it we are battling for a SB title. Our window is diminishing by the second and we've squandered several opportunities to make it back to the big dance. At this point I'd say the ends more than justify the means. Mack would be a good foundation to start with in regards to building around the defense as we continue to the whole "draft and develop" thing. In the meantime we can rent a few players in the process. New England does the same thing and it works out wonders for them. Mack being a pash rush would've forced opposing offenses to focus on him giving guys like Wilkerson (before he went down), Matthews, Daniels, Perry, and so on openings to get the QB, thus forcing them to get rid of the ball sooner, and thus helping the secondary, which likely would've resulted in more picks.

This is the same formula that was done with the Legion of Boom. A deadly front that created pressure and hit you in the mouth, forcing the QB to get rid of the ball, while the secondary were well disciplined and as well as physical. I'm not saying we would've been the LOB, but certainly the defense would seem more potent than it has in years. Especially when you factor the games we lost this year and how we've never been blown out and have been in most those games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Steelers as I mentioned imploded and lost several games that they easily could've/should've won, but they didn't.

The Packers had chances to win some more games last season as well. Acquiring Brown doesn't guarantee that to change by any means.

Rodgers has never done that. And also I keep bringing this up but have you forgotten how much problems Charles Woodson was when he first arrived in Green Bay? If I understand correctly he almost went to blows with McCarthy one time. If we're so worried that one player is going to affect our locker room then that truly speaks to how pitiful we are as a culture. New England brought in Randy Moss, and he was able to fall in line. Are we incapable of doing the same with Brown? And also the way I see it, (and I've mentioned this) Brown knows what's being made about him in regards to his character. Do you honestly believe he'll risk misbehaving or giving credence to those claims, especially considering how he behaves will determine if anyone else picks him up once his time ends here should we acquire him. Think of it this way, if he acted up in both Pittsburgh and Green Bay, what are the odds of anyone else picking him up? And thus there goes his career. The way I see it, if we were to acquire him, we'd be holding all the cards.

The Packers signing Woodson to a lucrative deal was a risk at that point but not as much as trading for Brown would be. While it's true it worked out perfectly with Woodson there are a ton of examples of players with character concerns not fitting in with their new teams.

I'm not sure Brown is interested in the public perception at all, therefore I wouldn't count on him being a good teammate with a nee club.

The way I see it we are battling for a SB title. Our window is diminishing by the second and we've squandered several opportunities to make it back to the big dance. At this point I'd say the ends more than justify the means. Mack would be a good foundation to start with in regards to building around the defense as we continue to the whole "draft and develop" thing. In the meantime we can rent a few players in the process. New England does the same thing and it works out wonders for them. Mack being a pash rush would've forced opposing offenses to focus on him giving guys like Wilkerson (before he went down), Matthews, Daniels, Perry, and so on openings to get the QB, thus forcing them to get rid of the ball sooner, and thus helping the secondary, which likely would've resulted in more picks.

This is the same formula that was done with the Legion of Boom. A deadly front that created pressure and hit you in the mouth, forcing the QB to get rid of the ball, while the secondary were well disciplined and as well as physical. I'm not saying we would've been the LOB, but certainly the defense would seem more potent than it has in years. Especially when you factor the games we lost this year and how we've never been blown out and have been in most those games.

The Packers acquiring Mack would have prevented them from signing other free agents to improve the overall talent level on the roster. In addition the team would have had to release one of the players you mentioned (most likely Matthews) to make room for him under the cap LAST SEASON.

With the Seahawks Legion of Boom secondary you have to realize they hugely benefitted from having Wilson on a rookie contract.

 

[hasamikun]

I still think the Packers were not able to get Mack for the price the bears did. The bears have an average rookie contract QB, packers have the highest paid QB in the league.
And I dont think giving up that many early round picks is worth it. As you said, Packers were close in most games they lost and they would not have lost them with Mack, but still. packers are having a luxury with liek 40-50 mios cap space and 2 1st rounders.

I am torn on AB. Ofc I would love AB here just to see how the Offense could destroy any defense, with AR12 being in form. But the locker room cancer is so big with AB. I wont cry if they get him, but I wont be celebrating it either. Also I would give up at best a 2nd rounder for AB. He is 30 or 31 and therefore prone to an age-related decline.

I would much rather see a FA safety like Thomas or Collins coming to GB and then drafting a WR/TE at #30 or #44.

 

[Mondio]

Charles Woodson may have had his issues about the team or what was happening, but in true Charles Woodson style he maintained professionalism throughout. I would not even begin to mention Woodson and Brown in the same breath as being similar in a character sense.

and i don't really follow the Steelers, but has Big Ben made it a habit of calling out players over the years. Maybe he does? I really don't know. But it seems possible, that maybe Brown needed it too. I don't think this all started with Big Ben calling him out, as he's had other issues over the years and this just seems like an escalation. It's entirely possible, Brown needed to be called out a long time ago and more forcefully.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Charles Woodson may have had his issues about the team or what was happening, but in true Charles Woodson style he maintained professionalism throughout. I would not even begin to mention Woodson and Brown in the same breath as being similar in a character sense.

and i don't really follow the Steelers, but has Big Ben made it a habit of calling out players over the years. Maybe he does? I really don't know. But it seems possible, that maybe Brown needed it too. I don't think this all started with Big Ben calling him out, as he's had other issues over the years and this just seems like an escalation. It's entirely possible, Brown needed to be called out a long time ago and more forcefully.

Agreed and I never heard anything about Woodson being a self centered locker room cancer kind of guy, quite the opposite actually. Green Bay was not his first choice of teams, but one of the only teams willing to sign him at the price he was comfortable with. Woodson grew to love Green Bay and the Packers, as well as his teammates and his teammates loved him. I don't see that same love in Pittsburgh with Brown.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

obviously you don't.

you're so shallow and shortsighted with your answers it explains why you arrive at such conclusions. First off, Graham was signed in March. Look at a calendar and see where that month falls. Mack was available for trade at the end of August. Glance at that calendar again and see why that is relevant. If you can't, I'll give you a hint. One already happened before the other was an option.

You're not seriously saying they should have cut Graham to make room and trade for Mack are you?

it's even worse with cutting perry last year. You realize you would NOT have cleared money last year right?

Don't pretend to understand cap implications when you very clearly do not.

Fine, I'm shortsighted (in fact I just didn't feel like researching the state of the Packers' cap in August of 2018) or...I just thought that someone would read what I wrote and get the idea; that it's very easy to make room for a great player when the team isn't already having salary cap problems (which the Packers weren't). However, that's my bad. I forgot this is the Internet and points are quickly ignored in light of "GOTCHA"!

So, to be clear, the cap wasn't a constraint, and cutting ANYONE ON THE TEAM EXCEPT RODGERS would have been worth it to sign Mack. His play last year proved it.

 

[RRyder]

Fine, I'm shortsighted (in fact I just didn't feel like researching the state of the Packers' cap in August of 2018) or...I just thought that someone would read what I wrote and get the idea; that it's very easy to make room for a great player when the team isn't already having salary cap problems (which the Packers weren't). However, that's my bad. I forgot this is the Internet and points are quickly ignored in light of "GOTCHA"!

So, to be clear, the cap wasn't a constraint, and cutting ANYONE ON THE TEAM EXCEPT RODGERS would have been worth it to sign Mack. His play last year proved it.

You made a point. He countered on why it was a poor point. Saying he was trying to say "Gotcha" is projecting

Also saying last year proved that he would be worth cutting anyone for him is a another poor point easily refuted by simply pointing at his final year with the Raiders where the team as a whole had horrible pass rush numbers despite having him on the roster. So saying Mack + "whoever" is worth it has also been shown to be false

 

[swhitset]

Fine, I'm shortsighted (in fact I just didn't feel like researching the state of the Packers' cap in August of 2018) or...I just thought that someone would read what I wrote and get the idea; that it's very easy to make room for a great player when the team isn't already having salary cap problems (which the Packers weren't). However, that's my bad. I forgot this is the Internet and points are quickly ignored in light of "GOTCHA"!

So, to be clear, the cap wasn't a constraint, and cutting ANYONE ON THE TEAM EXCEPT RODGERS would have been worth it to sign Mack. His play last year proved it.

Everything you just said is wrong(except the fact that you were short sighted).. but don’t let that stop you...

 

[Do7]

Agreed and I never heard anything about Woodson being a self centered locker room cancer kind of guy, quite the opposite actually. Green Bay was not his first choice of teams, but one of the only teams willing to sign him at the price he was comfortable with. Woodson grew to love Green Bay and the Packers, as well as his teammates and his teammates loved him. I don't see that same love in Pittsburgh with Brown.

And who's to say that Brown can't grow to love the culture here in Green Bay? So again as I stated previously, if you're worried about Brown being a potential issue in the locker room, then that just shows that our culture isn't all that great. You see New England take chances on players. If I recall we had the same thing with Josh Gordon awhile back pondering if we should bring him in and New England took a chance on him. And granted he flamed out in the end b/c he couldn't overcome his demons but he sure as hell wasn't an issue in the locker room, and was a contributing factor in some of their wins and set them up for the postseason. To me it's simple if you're worried about Brown being an issue then that shows how fragile we are as an organization.

Is Brown a saint? Absolutely not. But I believe in giving people second chances, especially if they can perform on the field, in which he goes day in and day out and prove. When has Brown cheated his previous organization in regards to lack of effort? The dude is said to be one of the hardest workers. Do I care for him as a human being? I don't have any reason to, but I can separate the player from a human being.

And who knows maybe JUST maybe he'll be able to turn it around. It's certainly not a whole lot of distractions up in Green Bay now is there?

 

[Mondio]

Fine, I'm shortsighted (in fact I just didn't feel like researching the state of the Packers' cap in August of 2018) or...I just thought that someone would read what I wrote and get the idea; that it's very easy to make room for a great player when the team isn't already having salary cap problems (which the Packers weren't). However, that's my bad. I forgot this is the Internet and points are quickly ignored in light of "GOTCHA"!

So, to be clear, the cap wasn't a constraint, and cutting ANYONE ON THE TEAM EXCEPT RODGERS would have been worth it to sign Mack. His play last year proved it.

It wasn't GOTCHA in fact I led you and your horse right to the water, you didn't want to drink and doubled down on your stance, so i kind of poured the water on you for good measure.

You couldnt' have known Mack was available when we signed Graham. you couldn't have. and if we cut perry he would have cost us money, but you still think it was the right move by costing cap space AND losing a player?

If your goal is to just get under the cap, you're right, you can probably cut enough people to fit anyone. Fielding a competitive team on the other hand is an entirely different consideration. You it appears you still don't understand the future cap implications.

It wasn't a gotcha post at all, it was showing you the reality of the situation, so maybe you'd stop saying such things in the future? our continue to believe it and wonder why people don't take you seriously