Boys stud and dud

[Dantés]

Rather than "Studs and Duds," I'm just going to throw out my takeaways:

• Rodgers is Rodgers.
• Jahri Evans, though inexplicably maligned by fans earlier this season, has been very good and was a solid fill-in acquisition.
• Taylor was predictably exposed as a poor long term solution at LT.
• The TE group as a whole, more than any one TE on the roster, is a big plus this season.
• Davante Adams (who, I was just told recently, is having a bad season-- LOL) is a stellar feature in this offense and absolutely needs to be kept.
• Aaron Jones is the best pure runner on the team and maybe the best back overall; he was a great pick as a athletic stud from a smaller program.
• Blake Martinez is downright nasty; Ryan will likely be allowed to play out his rookie deal and Martinez can be kept on as the MIKE in the long term.
• It's too easy to find and sit in holes in Packers' zone coverage.
• Clay Matthews continues to have a rejuvenated season.
• The front 7 must learn to finish plays in the backfield.
• Rollins is basically a guaranteed reception when targeted; King is very important to the defense if for no other reason than that he puts Rollins on the bench.
• Randall shockingly bounced back and had a nice outing.
• Clinton-Dix continues to make some surprisingly bad plays each week, though he recovered pretty nicely from that gaffe on the 49 yard reception early.
• Brice and Hawkins both made nice plays; Hawkins should see his snaps increase.

I was frustrated with the defense, but for a different reason than what most have expressed to this point. With some exceptions (e.g. Rollins or HHCD on the long completion), I thought the coverage was fine-- not suffocating, but respectable. What killed the defense more than anything was Prescott's ability to escape pressure in the backfield, extend the play, and either run for first downs or convert them through the air. Again, there were certainly coverage breakdowns aside from this, but had Prescott not made plays in this way there would have been a lot more punting or field goal kicking as opposed to touchdown scoring. So while I agree that there are fair criticisms of the secondary, I though the biggest problem was the front seven not getting off blocks and finishing plays.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Another unsung stud, Damarious Randall for giving what might be the most insane response to being asked about his penalty:

Randall claimed that he wasn't called for a penalty. Then, when told he did get a penalty, he said, "Yeah, I don't think I had a penalty." THEN, when told that he flipped the ball at Dak, he said, "Flip what?"

It's like he doesn't actually know what words mean! We might have figured out why he has so much trouble with the defense. He just doesn't speak the same language as anyone else.

I think it's more that he is playing inside "Randall World".

 

[swhitset]

I think it's more that he is playing inside "Randall World".

The problem is I think that is correct. I bet he really didn't even know he got that penalty because he was so busy congratulating himself. At this point I don't even want him to improve, because I don't like the guy. Yes I want the Packers to win, and if he can make a few plays in the short term great, but I'm actually rooting for him to go away. Yes I know how that sounds, and ultimately I want the Packers to win. I'm just hoping they can do it without Randle.

 

[PikeBadger]

Lots of studs: Rodgers, Jones, entire receiving corp, the o-line except for one or two possessions.

Duds: kicking team, defense unable to get off field (only 1 Dallas punt).

Excellent win for us. Proud of the guys for hanging tough. You ought to visit the Dallas board. We get more respect there than we do here.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The defense benefited from the Packers offense controlling the clock with the Cowboys getting only four possessions in the second half and a lucky bounce. When push came to shove the unit wasn't able to get a stop once again though.

Dallas had 16:02 time of possession in the second half. Of course, a pick 6 or fumble return for TD in essence gives the opposition an extra possession and subtracts one from the offense. Regardless, the Packers did not control the clock. Dallas did, they just happened to throw that pick 6 and left just a bit too much clock in Rodgers' hands.

If the "lucky bounce" is the Randall pick 6, credit should be given where credit is due regardless of Randall's shortcomings and knuckleheadedness.

One reason why many NFL DBs are DBs and not WRs is bad hands going back to high school or early in the college career. NFL DB "ball skills" are chiefly track and tip ability. Catching the ball is an issue for many. You can hardly get through a game without one DB or another missing out on an INT that could have been made. Now, you'd expect any NFL DB to catch an air mailed ball in his breadbasket as a lowest common denominator. The Randall pick was a tipped ball in short range requiring quick reaction and the hands to catch it. Lots of DBs don't make that catch. So there's that.

 

[GleefulGary]

I would feel way more comfortable about Jones going forward if he would perform at a high level vs. the Vikings as well.

Just curious what a high level is? Bc the Vikings have a really good defense.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think it's more that he is playing inside "Randall World".

The weight of expectations and failure to meet them weigh heavily on Mr. Randall. He should smoke some dope and chill. Oh, wait, that's illegal.

As for the penalty, these taunting calls have as much do with what is said as what is done. If all he did was flip the ball, it's kind of a lame call. If he said, "take this you m'f'ing punk a's piece of sh't", you'd kind of expect that flag. We don't what he said.

 

[Dantés]

Just curious what a high level is? Bc the Vikings have a really good defense.

He needs to run for 6 YPC or he's trash.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Its interesting because we were all looking at Bakh while Joe was just trying to figure it all out. Then a short while later he references Aaron Jones and called him "Erwin Jones"

Aaron Jones' given name is Edward Jones and he owns a stock brokerage. He's the most interesting man in the world.

 

[GleefulGary]

OK, didn't realize you choose to ignore the plays that don't fit your narrative.

It was a passing play. I mean, it's still not good for the defense, but cmon.

On designed run plays we did pretty dang well against a guy that torched us last year. I'm happy about that, it's improvement. Are we great on defense? Absolutely not. Are we better? Absolutely.

 

[HardRightEdge]

He needs to run for 6 YPC or he's trash.

That's funny, but I did not see an emoticon.

You can't measure it by stats. Take this Dallas game. The first half showed the expected emphasis on stopping Elliott. He was well contained, mission accomplished. Except, as I feared, the Cowboys moved the ball with the short passing game and attacking the soft middle. Who cares what Elliott's numbers were in that half when you can score TDs on every possession except the last one with less than a minute on the clock.

In the second half, Elliott put up good numbers and Dallas was outscored. As noted before, they were dropping Matthews in coverage, and it wasn't some disguised zone blitz with less base and more nickel.

In the case of a Packers running back, if it's 3rd. and two and the defense feels the need to bring 8 in the box, he's had a good play even if he doesn't touch the ball. Otherwise, you'd like to see the guy get 3 yards on first down, no negative runs, get the tough yard with 1 to gio, and make some hay on tweener downs with the defense spread. Come to think of it, that applies anywhere if the QB is legit.

 

[GleefulGary]

Randall made a great play on a deep ball too. Almost had another pick.

Also, defense is hard when you're playing against a good mobile QB with a good OL and a good RB. We certainly didn't play perfect, but we played good enough to win. That's good enough for me.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would expect Montgomery to remain the starter when he's ready to come back.

Taking a look at Montgomery's performance so far this season I'm not convinced he should start ahead of Jones at the moment.

Rather than "Studs and Duds," I'm just going to throw out my takeaways:

• Randall shockingly bounced back and had a nice outing.
• Clinton-Dix continues to make some surprisingly bad plays each week, though he recovered pretty nicely from that gaffe on the 49 yard reception early.

What killed the defense more than anything was Prescott's ability to escape pressure in the backfield, extend the play, and either run for first downs or convert them through the air. Again, there were certainly coverage breakdowns aside from this, but had Prescott not made plays in this way there would have been a lot more punting or field goal kicking as opposed to touchdown scoring.

Randall was once again beaten on several plays allowing receptions once again though. While Clinton-Dix was definitely partly responsible for that long completion it seemed Damarious should have covered the receiver on that play.

It wasn't surprising that Prescott is capable of extending plays though yet the Packers weren't able to contain it. There's no reason to take pride in having been able to force the Cowboys to punt if he wasn't a mobile quarterback.

The problem is I think that is correct. I bet he really didn't even know he got that penalty because he was so busy congratulating himself. At this point I don't even want him to improve, because I don't like the guy. Yes I want the Packers to win, and if he can make a few plays in the short term great, but I'm actually rooting for him to go away. Yes I know how that sounds, and ultimately I want the Packers to win. I'm just hoping they can do it without Randle.

Randall performing at a decent level significantly improves the Packers chances of winning though.

Dallas had 16:02 time of possession in the second half. Of course, a pick 6 or fumble return for TD in essence gives the opposition an extra possession and subtracts one from the offense. Regardless, the Packers did not control the clock. Dallas did, they just happened to throw that pick 6 and left just a bit too much clock in Rodgers' hands.

The Packers controlled the clock as the team possessed the ball for 12:56 compared to the Cowboys' 7:15 before the defense wasn't able to get a stop Dallas on the long touchdown drive.

Just curious what a high level is? Bc the Vikings have a really good defense.

Jones has to perform at a level to keep the Vikings defense honest not allowing them to ignore the Packers rushing attack.

On designed run plays we did pretty dang well against a guy that torched us last year. I'm happy about that, it's improvement. Are we great on defense? Absolutely not. Are we better? Absolutely.

I'm not convinced the defense is any better than it was last season. It seems you missed the first half in which the Cowboys scored a touchdown on every single one of their possessions.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Also, defense is hard when you're playing against a good mobile QB with a good OL and a good RB. We certainly didn't play perfect, but we played good enough to win. That's good enough for me.

Rodgers and the offense played good enough for the Packers to win.

 

[GleefulGary]

Rodgers and the offense played good enough for the Packers to win.

Rodgers and the offense don't win without a pick 6. And let's not forget the refs spotting the Cowboys an extra 4 points either.

But factually, you are wrong. We won by 4 points, Randall (the defense) got us 6. Pretty simple math there.

 

[PackAttack12]

Rodgers and the offense don't win without a pick 6. And let's not forget the refs spotting the Cowboys an extra 4 points either.

But factually, you are wrong. We won by 4 points, Randall (the defense) got us 6. Pretty simple math there.

Terrance Williams got us 6.

The offense played well enough to win because they scored considerably more than its season average, while the defense did not play well enough to win, given that they gave up considerably more points than its season average. Just the way I look at it.

 

[Dantés]

Randall was once again beaten on several plays allowing receptions once again though. While Clinton-Dix was definitely partly responsible for that long completion it seemed Damarious should have covered the receiver on that play.

It wasn't surprising that Prescott is capable of extending plays though yet the Packers weren't able to contain it. There's no reason to take pride in having been able to force the Cowboys to punt if he wasn't a mobile quarterback.

Randall gave up some catches early, but he was in better coverage even for the completions. And after the touchdown, he didn't allow another catch. He made a nice play to break up a pass down the sideline when Prescott took a shot after an offsides penalty.

I don't see how the Butler reception could be on Randall. From the All-22 angle in the replay, it looks like a pretty standard cover 2 look. Randall passes Butler off as he runs deep, and HHCD was late in picking him up. We never know the play calls for sure, but that one was pretty easy to interpret. The hand off from one zone to the other came quite a bit shallower than where the reception took place.

What pride are you even talking about? I never said the defense played well, I just laid some of the blame at the feet of a different problem than what most are discussing. But I guess when you're a hammer, every post is a nail.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Rodgers and the offense don't win without a pick 6. And let's not forget the refs spotting the Cowboys an extra 4 points either.

But factually, you are wrong. We won by 4 points, Randall (the defense) got us 6. Pretty simple math there.

It's absolutely ridiculous to evaluate yesterday's game and conclude the Packers won the game because of the defensive performance.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't see how the Butler reception could be on Randall. From the All-22 angle in the replay, it looks like a pretty standard cover 2 look. Randall passes Butler off as he runs deep, and HHCD was late in picking him up. We never know the play calls for sure, but that one was pretty easy to interpret. The hand off from one zone to the other came quite a bit shallower than where the reception took place.

I highly doubt the play call was for Clinton-Dix to cover a wide receiver one-on-one.

 

[Dantés]

It's absolutely ridiculous to evaluate yesterday's game and conclude the Packers won the game because of the defensive performance.

You should try interacting with what people are actually saying. It's a blast!

 

[Dantés]

I highly doubt the play call was for Clinton-Dix to cover a wide receiver one-on-one.

So ignore what the play looks like and just go with your gut opinion of what you think the plan might have been in theory?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So ignore what the play looks like and just go with your gut opinion of what you think the plan might have been in theory?

The coaches film is not yet available on NFL Game Pass but it seems that Randall passed Butler along to Clinton-Dix while not covering any other receiver on that play. Once again, I'm absolutely convinced that wasn't the call.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Taking a look at Montgomery's performance so far this season I'm not convinced he should start ahead of Jones at the moment.

"Expect" and "should" are two different things. Jones will get his chances, but I don't think McCarthy is going to flip the script based on one game against an opponent saying "Aaron who?".

One thing in evidence was McCarthy liking to run Jones outside the tackles which is not something we've seen much in recent years. There was even a flip pitch left in the second half that went for some yards; I was wondering when I saw that last. He's probably contemplating Jones as an inside or outside guy which is no small thing. But I don't see him jumping in the pool head first, and I can't say I'd blame him.

If Jones can repeat a "hot hand" performance then we'll see. If Montgomery's ribs are not where they should be, that may come earlier rather than later.

On a related matter, is it possible this rag tag all-guard-all-the-time O-Line is a better run blocking line than the starters? It just might be.

 

[Dantés]

The coaches film is not yet available on NFL Game Pass but it seems that Randall passed Butler along to Clinton-Dix while not covering any other receiver on that play. Once again, I'm absolutely convinced that wasn't the call.

C'mon Captain... I know you know how zones work.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

C'mon Captain... I know you know how zones work.

The plan is definitely not having your free safety cover a receiver one-on-one even when playing zone coverage.