Anders Carlson

[milani]

Poppa San made a good point - there are 50-60 guys competing for a K job right now. There may be a guy out there who gets cut but who could be better than Carlson or Joseph, or at least worth a look.

gopkrs is right. To paraphrase, in a year with legitimate SB expectations, a solid kicking game is a must-have. SB champions are solid on offense, defense, and STs. Remember how the Packers won the SB in 1997 - with a huge boost from STs.

Place kicking is taken for granted until it makes or breaks. Being able to kick consistently and kick in crunch time are paramount. I believe in 2023 we were so pleasantly surprised how well our team emerged in a rebuild year that we gave place kicking a pass. I harken way back to 1964 when HOFer Paul Hornung had the worst year an NFL kicker could ever have. Like about 12 of 39 on FGs and 2 missed PATs from 10 yards! With a decent kicker even for that era Lombardi would have won another championship.

 

[OldSchool101]

All valid points. And the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. It's hard to believe that another team's cut K is better than what Carlson and Joseph have shown. And there's no time to really evaluate the player before a decision has to be made.

It's not my decision, but I'd go with Carlson. He has upside where Joseph, at this point in his career, has shown what he's got.

Kickers get very little in-game experience. Maybe it takes a year or two for some guys to settle down. It happened with Crosby, it happened with Carlson's brother. Finally, this team has enough experience that relying on a K is hopefully not an every-game issue.

I agree. I’m not exactly high on Carlson, but I’m not that intrigued with the choices either. I think Carlson is a coin flip away from being a top 50% of the league Kicker, which don’t exactly grow on trees. We pretty much have invested this much time. I’d give him another year, he’s really just a few more makes here n there from ok.
That said, if he regresses or remains stagnant this year. I think we should move on

 

[lambeaulambo]

Dont rip the posts down when he wins the super bowl. This is a mental thing. Anders needs to go see AR8 in the dark corner.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree. I’m not exactly high on Carlson, but I’m not that intrigued with the choices either. I think Carlson is a coin flip away from being a top 50% of the league Kicker, which don’t exactly grow on trees. We pretty much have invested this much time. I’d give him another year, he’s really just a few more makes here n there from ok.
That said, if he regresses or remains stagnant this year. I think we should move on

Yeah if it gets to be mid-season and Carlson is still performing at a sub-journeyman level, then it would be time to bring in a guy with some experience. This year is too important to risk it on a guy with a long development path, if he develops at all. You're right, it's 50/50. I'll feel better if he at least starts kicking the ball straight. A lot of his kicks veer left or right with no discernible reason, same as last year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Place kicking is taken for granted until it makes or breaks. Being able to kick consistently and kick in crunch time are paramount. I believe in 2023 we were so pleasantly surprised how well our team emerged in a rebuild year that we gave place kicking a pass. I harken way back to 1964 when HOFer Paul Hornung had the worst year an NFL kicker could ever have. Like about 12 of 39 on FGs and 2 missed PATs from 10 yards! With a decent kicker even for that era Lombardi would have won another championship.

Good point. We don't think much about kickers, and like him or not, Crosby got the job done for the most part. I think back 7 years or so when he had to make a winning 51 yarder twice against Dallas in a playoff win. If that was Carlson, yikes I'd be praying and I'm not into praying.

 

[milani]

Good point. We don't think much about kickers, and like him or not, Crosby got the job done for the most part. I think back 7 years or so when he had to make a winning 51 yarder twice against Dallas in a playoff win. If that was Carlson, yikes I'd be praying and I'm not into praying.

Crosby had a number of game winners in his career. He did not make all of them but still had a solid career. I liked the 50 yarder he made in Frisco that gave us a 30-28 victory a few years back.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Crosby had a number of game winners in his career. He did not make all of them but still had a solid career. I liked the 50 yarder he made in Frisco that gave us a 30-28 victory a few years back.

Yeah Crosby won’t go into the HOF but I recall him being a very reliable kicker. Not a huge leg, he certainly was accurate. And he could deal with pressure.

 

[Poppa San]

Yeah Crosby won’t go into the HOF but I recall him being a very reliable kicker. Not a huge leg, he certainly was accurate. And he could deal with pressure.

I recall this as being one of Captain's points, 80-85% FG kickers are adequate these days. Good ones are mid - upper 80's and the very good ones hit 90% regularly. Mason, for being a top paid kicker for a few years, was over paid for his results. Maybe if MM hadn't attempted so many 45+ yarders his % would be higher.

 

[milani]

Yeah Crosby won’t go into the HOF but I recall him being a very reliable kicker. Not a huge leg, he certainly was accurate. And he could deal with pressure.

The longest tenure of any one Packer kicker at least in the modern day era.

 

[sschind]

I recall this as being one of Captain's points, 80-85% FG kickers are adequate these days. Good ones are mid - upper 80's and the very good ones hit 90% regularly. Mason, for being a top paid kicker for a few years, was over paid for his results. Maybe if MM hadn't attempted so many 45+ yarders his % would be higher.

Interesting point for a game of would you rather. Would you rather have a 95% kicker from under 45 yards but only 60% from over 45 or ____. Fill on the blank. Obviously I'm asking this somewhat rhetorically but it does make you think. How many of those high career % kickers padded their % with a bunch of short kicks? Maybe none, just something to think about, or not.

 

[milani]

Interesting point for a game of would you rather. Would you rather have a 95% kicker from under 45 yards but only 60% from over 45 or ____. Fill on the blank. Obviously I'm asking this somewhat rhetorically but it does make you think. How many of those high career % kickers padded their % with a bunch of short kicks? Maybe none, just something to think about, or not.

And those that were warm clime or indoor kickers at least half the season.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I recall this as being one of Captain's points, 80-85% FG kickers are adequate these days. Good ones are mid - upper 80's and the very good ones hit 90% regularly. Mason, for being a top paid kicker for a few years, was over paid for his results. Maybe if MM hadn't attempted so many 45+ yarders his % would be higher.

Interesting point. I don't recall MM going for FGs a lot from 45+. Then again, it's easy to believe. MM was extremely risk averse. That "play not to lose" approach is almost always a sure way to lose. The NFCCG loss against the Hags is a good/bad example. Yes there was plenty of blame to go around for that loss, but MM's risk-averse play calling didn't help. Off topic a bit.

And I'm going from memory, not statistics with Crosby. I just remember him as being a reliable kicker. I'm sure he was overpaid for some of those years based on season stats, consistent with what you listed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

And those that were warm clime or indoor kickers at least half the season.

You and sschind make good points, and it's why stats don't tell the whole story with most kickers (or most anything). Mark Twain said there are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I will admit though that with Crosby I might be guilty of letting sentiment take precedent over fact. I just liked the guy. We all have our favorite players over time and he was one of mine. And again, I mostly recall that he was reliable.

 

[Poppa San]

Agree. Carlson missed way too many XPAs last year. I don't remember any of them costing the Packers a game, but that's playing with fire, and unacceptable in the NFL.

His missed an XP game 9 vs Steelers. Lost by 4. Needed a TD on final drive and not a FG to tie. Though the INT the previous drive just outside the red-zone probably hurt more. No other missed XP affected the final outcome.

Since it's raining and I don't feel like hanging a garage door by myself, I took time to delve further. This XP wasn't a miss but blocked. The P-b-P doesn't state bad snap or poor blocking.
Next miss v Chargers was after a 5 play 70 yard two big strikes drive. The one where Kraft had a TD overturned because he stepped out around the 10.
Next miss was v Lions after Owens had a scoop 6 fumble return.
Last miss v Vikings after 3 play 37 yard drive in 2-minute drill.

Kinda lends credence to my theory that his misses are typically after a sudden TD, be it a turnover return or a quick strike drive. Like he doesn't have time to psych himself or steady his composure before being called upon. I didn't look at FGs.

 

[Half Empty]

He was 20 for 20 in FG under 40 yards. I still think they should keep him isolated and, when they score a TD, run him out, tell him the drive stalled and he's kicking a 33 yard FG.

 

[lambeaulambo]

He was 20 for 20 in FG under 40 yards. I still think they should keep him isolated and, when they score a TD, run him out, tell him the drive stalled and he's kicking a 33 yard FG.

true dat. Not sure about Buggar Bill tho.

 

[El Guapo]

All valid points. And the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. It's hard to believe that another team's cut K is better than what Carlson and Joseph have shown. And there's no time to really evaluate the player before a decision has to be made.

The Vikings cut Joseph, and brought in rookie kickers. That tells you something when a dome team says that a veteran isn't better than a bunch of unknown rookie kickers.

 

[Poppa San]

He was 20 for 20 in FG under 40 yards. I still think they should keep him isolated and, when they score a TD, run him out, tell him the drive stalled and he's kicking a 33 yard FG.

But if it's a drive that stalls, he knows and can focus himself that there is probably going to be some type of kick coming. 2 pass plays that cover 50-60 yards are kind of sudden.

 

[Voyageur]

Since it's raining and I don't feel like hanging a garage door by myself, I took time to delve further. This XP wasn't a miss but blocked. The P-b-P doesn't state bad snap or poor blocking.
Next miss v Chargers was after a 5 play 70 yard two big strikes drive. The one where Kraft had a TD overturned because he stepped out around the 10.
Next miss was v Lions after Owens had a scoop 6 fumble return.
Last miss v Vikings after 3 play 37 yard drive in 2-minute drill.

Kinda lends credence to my theory that his misses are typically after a sudden TD, be it a turnover return or a quick strike drive. Like he doesn't have time to psych himself or steady his composure before being called upon. I didn't look at FGs.

Interesting perspective. I understand what you're saying. Despite it translating as physical, the art of kicking is something that is a little off beat. Frame of mind can effect the results.

 

[milani]

You and sschind make good points, and it's why stats don't tell the whole story with most kickers (or most anything). Mark Twain said there are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I will admit though that with Crosby I might be guilty of letting sentiment take precedent over fact. I just liked the guy. We all have our favorite players over time and he was one of mine. And again, I mostly recall that he was reliable.

Part of why Crosby was drafted was because they believed who could be a decent cold weather kicker.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Since it's raining and I don't feel like hanging a garage door by myself, I took time to delve further. This XP wasn't a miss but blocked. The P-b-P doesn't state bad snap or poor blocking.
Next miss v Chargers was after a 5 play 70 yard two big strikes drive. The one where Kraft had a TD overturned because he stepped out around the 10.
Next miss was v Lions after Owens had a scoop 6 fumble return.
Last miss v Vikings after 3 play 37 yard drive in 2-minute drill.

Kinda lends credence to my theory that his misses are typically after a sudden TD, be it a turnover return or a quick strike drive. Like he doesn't have time to psych himself or steady his composure before being called upon. I didn't look at FGs.

Interesting theory and kickers are used to mostly sitting around. They usually can get themselves prepared for an upcoming FG, but no time on a pic 6 or a sudden strike.

Out of curiosity, is it even possible for one person to hang a garage door? I guess so because the garage door pros usually only send one guy. At any rate, it doesn't sound like fun.

 

[Poppa San]

Out of curiosity, is it even possible for one person to hang a garage door? I guess so because the garage door pros usually only send one guy. At any rate, it doesn't sound like fun.

Yes if you don't follow directions. I'm installing in a new location so the old tracking and supports don't exist. The rough opening was put in when I built the wall a few years back. I had swinging doors. I started about 5 hours ago when the rain let up. I've got 3 of 4 panels up with all the tracking. I will spend a few hours a few days next week to complete it. It's the cheapest steel 7'x8' I could find to put on my shed.

 

[pacmaniac]

Interesting point. I don't recall MM going for FGs a lot from 45+. Then again, it's easy to believe. MM was extremely risk averse. That "play not to lose" approach is almost always a sure way to lose. The NFCCG loss against the Hags is a good/bad example. Yes there was plenty of blame to go around for that loss, but MM's risk-averse play calling didn't help.

There is something new about that game in the upcoming Aaron Rodgers biography. Did Rodgers really not have the ability to audible?

Why Rodgers was upset by Packers coach Mike McCarthy during his most devastating defeat, the 2014 NFC Championship Game collapse at Seattle. Rodgers wanted to call six plays he had seen on film that "seemed indefensible" when Dallas beat the Seahawks in the regular season. One veteran Packers player said Rodgers "wanted those plays called over and over against Seattle, and McCarthy called only a few of them one time each."

Rodgers in bio: I regret saying I was 'immunized'

Aaron Rodgers said in a soon-to-be-published unauthorized biography that he should have been truthful about his COVID-19 vaccination status in 2021.

www.espn.com

 

[Thirteen Below]

There is something new about that game in the upcoming Aaron Rodgers biography. Did Rodgers really not have the ability to audible?

Why Rodgers was upset by Packers coach Mike McCarthy during his most devastating defeat, the 2014 NFC Championship Game collapse at Seattle. Rodgers wanted to call six plays he had seen on film that "seemed indefensible" when Dallas beat the Seahawks in the regular season. One veteran Packers player said Rodgers "wanted those plays called over and over against Seattle, and McCarthy called only a few of them one time each."

Some parts of that article don't sound very carefully written; some of the language seems a little sloppy. I wonder if those six plays were not in Green Bay's playbook at all, so Rodgers wouldn't have been able to audible into them at the line of scrimmage?

Maybe Rodgers wanted them added to the playbook and practiced during the week, but McCarthy refused to do it? But then again, how would that explain the part about "McCarthy called only a few of them one time each"?

That just doesn't add up. Rodgers pretty much audibled into whatever the hell he wanted to run by that point in his career, whenever he felt like it. McCarthy said once that he was audibling out of every 5 or 6 called plays in those last few years, and it frustrated the hell out of him. In fact, they looked like they were close to throwing hands a couple of times in that game, when Rodgers went back to the sideline.

I'd be curious to learn more about this one, because other Packer players said after that game that the two were just screaming at each other over the playcalling. I'm always ready for some fresh McCarthy/Rodgers gossip!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Interesting theory and kickers are used to mostly sitting around. They usually can get themselves prepared for an upcoming FG, but no time on a pic 6 or a sudden strike.

Out of curiosity, is it even possible for one person to hang a garage door? I guess so because the garage door pros usually only send one guy. At any rate, it doesn't sound like fun.

Yes if you don't follow directions. I'm installing in a new location so the old tracking and supports don't exist. The rough opening was put in when I built the wall a few years back. I had swinging doors. I started about 5 hours ago when the rain let up. I've got 3 of 4 panels up with all the tracking. I will spend a few hours a few days next week to complete it. It's the cheapest steel 7'x8' I could find to put on my shed.

Damn, you are very ambitious and very handy. I didn't get that gene.......