Alvis Has Left The Building....MLF Fires WR Coach

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packer WR Coach Alvis Whitted was fired yesterday. Not a big surprise considering the lack of performance from the group he coached. However, one might ask the question "Given the lack of talent he was asked to coach, what was expected of him?" I doubt the Packers were expecting him to turn water into wine, but I think the backward slide of both MVS and GMO probably didn't bode well. The improvement of Lazard was really the lone highlight of any of the WR;s not named Adams.

Hopefully a good change, but any new coach that they bring in HAS to be given more to work with IMO.

My suggestion, don't hire a coach with "Whitt" in their last name.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just found the article below, which talks about the Packer receivers and their YAC or lack of last season due to not being able to force missed tackles. I kept thinking this to be true in my head, but never bothered to look up the stats. Just really pathetic when you compare them to the rest of the league. I still believe a lot of this is on Gute for not upgrading the WR group during his 2 years. Some of the blame has to also be placed on the coaches for not finding ways to get guys more open. I will wait for some to blame Rodgers on this too, for only throwing to guys that were tightly covered.

Key part of the article:

Here’s another unnoticed byproduct of a receiver corps that’s come from such humble draft roots. According to Pro Football Focus, the entire receiver corps forced a total of nine missed tackles. Kumerow, of all people, forced three missed tackle on his 12 catches. Adams forced two on 83 receptions, Valdes-Scantling forced two on 26 receptions (but none in the final 14 games), Lazard forced one on 35 receptions and Allison forced one on 34 receptions.

San Francisco’s Deebo Samuel and Pittsburgh’s Diontae Johnson led the league with 18 missed tackles apiece, according to PFF. Tampa Bay’s Chris Godwin forced 17, and Tennessee’s A.J. Brown and Denver’s Courtland Sutton forced 16 apiece. Individually, 18 receivers forced more than the Packers’ group combined. One of those was Randall Cobb, who forced 10.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/packers-receivers-failed-to-provide-yac-attack

 

[AmishMafia]

How do you personally tell the difference between talent and coaching deficiency?

Maybe the WR group was talented all along and were just getting poor coaching.

 

[gbgary]

How do you personally tell the difference between talent and coaching deficiency?

Maybe the WR group was talented all along and were just getting poor coaching.

maybe the coaching wasn't poor. maybe there was just a personality/coaching-style difference or something. maybe he and MLF butted heads some. maybe he is more strict/regimented...not as flexible as MLF. being a wr in GB has to be tough. you're stuck between running the drawn-up practiced routes and the route rodgers wants you to run on game day...the unspoken "same page" thing, that only adams has and jordy had.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How do you personally tell the difference between talent and coaching deficiency?

Maybe the WR group was talented all along and were just getting poor coaching.

Well that is what Murphy, Gute and MLF had to decide. I think we know what they decided. Joe Whitt Jr. was in the same shoes I believe. Some thought he was a great coach, but how did he have all that high draft talent given to him and yet the secondary stunk? Players or coach?

In the case of Alvis, I doubt any of us would have blinked had he been retained, as a matter of fact, I don't remember reading anything about people wanting him out. Given the lack of talent he was given, what was he suppose to do? But, like I said in my first post, besides Lazard, who I think had a lot of talent to start, the rest of the WR's not named Davante, seemed to get worse as the year progressed.

 

[longtimefan]

One thing for sure...MLF isn't afraid to let someone go..

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

you're stuck between running the drawn-up practiced routes and the route rodgers wants you to run on game day...the unspoken "same page" thing, that only adams has and jordy had.

Figured it wouldn't take long for someone to bring Rodgers into this. No surprise that it was you.

Did you read the article on the Packers receivers in regards to YAC and breaking tackles? What does that tell you about our group of receivers? Even Adams didn't break many tackles. Hopefully the new WR coach will figure out how to fix things.

 

[Mondio]

Nobody thought the DB's in GB stunk until they all got hurt. there's no need to look any further than that.

I don't even know what a WR coach does. But there was zero growth and looked like regression from some buys this year despite ample opportunity. Just needs to get better and it's likely coaching AND better players.

 

[Mondio]

maybe the coaching wasn't poor. maybe there was just a personality/coaching-style difference or something. maybe he and MLF butted heads some. maybe he is more strict/regimented...not as flexible as MLF. being a wr in GB has to be tough. you're stuck between running the drawn-up practiced routes and the route rodgers wants you to run on game day...the unspoken "same page" thing, that only adams has and jordy had.

reading between the lines from the coach himself, Rodgers, offensive lineman like Bulaga etc, there were players that still didn't know what their role was within the offense at the end of the year. They didn't learn it. A big reason why a lot of the quick and up tempo stuff was really never used outside of some 2 minute situations.

 

[gbgary]

Just found the article below, which talks about the Packer receivers and their YAC or lack of last season due to not being able to force missed tackles. I kept thinking this to be true in my head, but never bothered to look up the stats. Just really pathetic when you compare them to the rest of the league. I still believe a lot of this is on Gute for not upgrading the WR group during his 2 years. Some of the blame has to also be placed on the coaches for not finding ways to get guys more open. I will wait for some to blame Rodgers on this too, for only throwing to guys that were tightly covered.

Key part of the article:

Here’s another unnoticed byproduct of a receiver corps that’s come from such humble draft roots. According to Pro Football Focus, the entire receiver corps forced a total of nine missed tackles. Kumerow, of all people, forced three missed tackle on his 12 catches. Adams forced two on 83 receptions, Valdes-Scantling forced two on 26 receptions (but none in the final 14 games), Lazard forced one on 35 receptions and Allison forced one on 34 receptions.

San Francisco’s Deebo Samuel and Pittsburgh’s Diontae Johnson led the league with 18 missed tackles apiece, according to PFF. Tampa Bay’s Chris Godwin forced 17, and Tennessee’s A.J. Brown and Denver’s Courtland Sutton forced 16 apiece. Individually, 18 receivers forced more than the Packers’ group combined. One of those was Randall Cobb, who forced 10.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/packers-receivers-failed-to-provide-yac-attack

how do you coach yac? yac seems dependant on available space to maneuver after making the catch.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

reading between the lines from the coach himself, Rodgers, offensive lineman like Bulaga etc, there were players that still didn't know what their role was within the offense at the end of the year. They didn't learn it. A big reason why a lot of the quick and up tempo stuff was really never used outside of some 2 minute situations.

Agreed.

I was complaining all year about them not trying an uptempo offense, it wasn't until ****'s final press conference that I learned that it wasn't because he didn't want to, it was because he didn't feel the offense was ready for it. Gotta think that is mainly the receiving group, unless the 2 new guards weren't ready either?

 

[Mondio]

how do you coach yac? yac seems dependant on available space to maneuver after making the catch.

I don't know, but Edgar Bennett had them doing all sorts of stuff to create their own bit of space when catching a ball that gave them room to get away. They were awesome with that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

how do you coach yac? yac seems dependant on available space to maneuver after making the catch.

Yac is running routes that you don't have to catch the ball with a guy right there to take you down. Think back, how many times did our receivers seem to catch the ball as they were either going out of bounds or coverage draped on them? So you coach YAC by better route running and teaching them how to get better separation before catching the ball and how to break tackles (without GMO fumbles) after catching the ball.

Some of this is on the WR's skill level too. However, the fact that Davante didn't thrive after catching the ball, tells me something else was up too.

 

[AmishMafia]

Well that is what Murphy, Gute and MLF had to decide. I think we know what they decided. Joe Whitt Jr. was in the same shoes I believe. Some though he was a great coach, but how did he have all that high draft talent given to him and yet the secondary stunk? Players or coach?

In the case of Alvis, I doubt any of us would have blinked had he been retained, as a matter of fact, I don't remember reading anything about people want him out. Given the lack of talent he was given, what was he suppose to do? But, like I said in my first post, besides Lazard, who I think had a lot of talent to start, the rest of the WR's not named Davante, seemed to get worse as the year progressed.

Again, is it coaching or talent that is the big problem?

At one time we had Edgar Bennett as our WR coach. They performed well no matter where they were drafted.

At one time, last season, we were tickled pink by all the talent we had at WR. GMo, Kumerow and MVS looked very promising. Shepard and Davis did as well as anyone in training camp this season.

So you seem it's a matter of fact that the WRs have no talent. Are you basing this entirely on stats? And how did they all suddenly become untalented?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Again, is it coaching or talent that is the big problem?

At one time we had Edgar Bennett as our WR coach. They performed well no matter where they were drafted.

At one time, last season, we were tickled pink by all the talent we had at WR. GMo, Kumerow and MVS looked very promising. Shepard and Davis did as well as anyone in training camp this season.

So you seem it's a matter of fact that the WRs have no talent. Are you basing this entirely on stats? And how did they all suddenly become untalented?

I think its a combination of talent (lack of) and coaching. Preseason and training camp talent doesn't always translate to Regular season results, we all know that and the reasons why.

I am sure we can break down each and every WR and their faults and what they excel at. However, I am still convinced that if Gute cut every WR that is currently on our team not named Adams, at best, a few of them might make another teams 53, but be at the bottom of their depth chart. We have Adams and a bunch of #4-8's.

 

[Dantés]

Will be interested to see if Petals keeps churning the offensive staff as more of his preferred targets become available to him. He wanted McDaniel and his brother last year and was denied.

 

[gbgary]

so less sideline routes, use the middle of the field more, fewer screens (they seemed to get blown up all the time), more slants (hitting guys quickly), and more catchable balls. opi was a point of emphasis this year. maybe they were coached to avoid being physical.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Packer WR Coach Alvis Whitted was fired yesterday. Not a big surprise considering the lack of performance from the group he coached. However, one might ask the question "Given the lack of talent he was asked to coach, what was expected of him?" I doubt the Packers were expecting him to turn water into wine, but I think the backward slide of both MVS and GMO probably didn't bode well. The improvement of Lazard was really the lone highlight of any of the WR;s not named Adams.

Hopefully a good change, but any new coach that they bring in HAS to be given more to work with IMO.

My suggestion, don't hire a coach with "Whitt" in their last name.

I do wish LaFleur would have fired Menenga instead. Special teams may have fallen a little on the back burner this year with a few other areas taking more precedence, but I still think it continues to go unaddressed here and Menenga continues to be a weak link. We surely can do better than hacks like him, Zook and Slocum.


Now as to this firing ... Well I don't know much about what this guy did as compared to previous WR coordinators or current crops. And LaFleur is the HC and perhaps he has someone else in mind for the position who would do even better, or at least I hope. But I would have to say that I just don't think we have the talent behind Adams and Lazard to be a great crop of WRs. Hence why the impetus is on the front office to make some higher picks in that area that can help this group.

 

[Mondio]

so less sideline routes, use the middle of the field more, fewer screens (they seemed to get blown up all the time), more slants (hitting guys quickly), and more catchable balls. opi was a point of emphasis this year. maybe they were coached to avoid being physical.

maybe they couldn't remember what to do and would run the wrong stuff? Rodgers used to thrive in the middle of the field and with quick passes and slants. he didn't forget or become unable or quit using it because he didn't want to. if your guys don't know the offense, you don't throw quick timing patterns in the middle of the field as much because the likelihood of it getting picked when your receiver that isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing goes way up.

The reasons those balls were less isn't what you keep thinking it's for.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

so less sideline routes, use the middle of the field more, fewer screens (they seemed to get blown up all the time), more slants (hitting guys quickly), and more catchable balls. opi was a point of emphasis this year. maybe they were coached to avoid being physical.

I agree with you, except not sure what "more catchable balls" has to do with YAC and breaking tackles? A nice rip on Rodgers though

 

[Mondio]

I agree with you, except not sure what "more catchable balls" has to do with YAC and breaking tackles? A nice rip on Rodgers though

don't let it fool you, it was all a rip on Rodgers.

 

[gbgary]

I agree with you, except not sure what "more catchable balls" has to do with YAC and breaking tackles? A nice rip on Rodgers though

hit guys in stride is what that means.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Again, is it coaching or talent that is the big problem?

At one time we had Edgar Bennett as our WR coach. They performed well no matter where they were drafted.

At one time, last season, we were tickled pink by all the talent we had at WR. GMo, Kumerow and MVS looked very promising. Shepard and Davis did as well as anyone in training camp this season.

So you seem it's a matter of fact that the WRs have no talent. Are you basing this entirely on stats? And how did they all suddenly become untalented?

We had Jordy and a healthy Cobb for those years Bennet was WR coach. And there were receivers like Boykin and Janis who didn't stick around. Bennet was good but he had a pretty talented crop to work with.

 

[gbgary]

don't let it fool you, it was all a rip on Rodgers.

please. most of what i mentioned was about play calling. that would be MLF.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

hit guys in stride is what that means.

He did on occasion, but even then they often were tackled. Whether Rodgers hits them when they are in stride or wide open or the guy drops the ball, it is still up to the receivers to get open, get YAC and break tackles.

You do realize that a lot of your posts tend to point fault onto Rodgers? I have a feeling that if someone got sick eating a hot dog at Lambeau, you would try to spin it with "if they hadn't paid Rodgers so much, they could afford to sell better hotdogs".