Alvis Has Left The Building....MLF Fires WR Coach

[PackerfaninCarolina]

One thing for sure...MLF isn't afraid to let someone go..

Well ... I don't know that I would call letting the WR coach go as big a deal as say firing Mike Pettine.

Just to clarify, I'm NOT calling for Pettine to be fired, or at least not yet. Just using an example though to say that there is kind of an importance ranking in the coaching staff, and it may still remain to be seen whether or not LaFleur has unfettered loyalties within there.

 

[gbgary]

Well ... I don't know that I would call letting the WR coach go as big a deal as say firing Mike Pettine.

Just to clarify, I'm NOT calling for Pettine to be fired, or at least not yet. Just using an example though to say that there is kind of an importance ranking in the coaching staff, and it may still remain to be seen whether or not LaFleur has unfettered loyalties within there.

the O dropped from 12th in 2018 to 18th in 2019 and it wasn't rushing-the-ball. gotta start somewhere.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/te...2019&type=reg&cat=T&group=O&conf=&sort=totyds

 

[Mondio]

please. most of what i mentioned was about play calling. that would be MLF.

Sure, after an entire season of “Rodgers won’t run the offense”. “Rodgers won’t use the middle of the field” “Rodgers won’t throw slants”. Rodgers always looks deep” and “Rodgers wants to run his own offense and not the quick timing throws” like MLF wants, now you want us to believe you’re talking about the play calling you claim Rodgers wouldn’t pay attention to all year?

Got it

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

the O dropped from 12th in 2018 to 18th in 2019 and it wasn't rushing the ball. gotta start somewhere.

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/te...2019&type=reg&cat=T&group=O&conf=&sort=totyds

Ahh I see the record was corrected

Anyway, O was just about identical in PPG in both years. Either way, it's true Rodgers is older and won't likely be giving us all star games week in and week out.

But I think it speaks to Pokerbrats point and mine that the offense hasn't been getting the necessary upgrades over these years. Letting Jordy and Cobb go is all well and good, both of which happened over the course of these years. But if you don't replace them, numbers like that are what you will see. Front office had better take note.

 

[GleefulGary]

Again, is it coaching or talent that is the big problem?

At one time we had Edgar Bennett as our WR coach. They performed well no matter where they were drafted.

At one time, last season, we were tickled pink by all the talent we had at WR. GMo, Kumerow and MVS looked very promising. Shepard and Davis did as well as anyone in training camp this season.

So you seem it's a matter of fact that the WRs have no talent. Are you basing this entirely on stats? And how did they all suddenly become untalented?

Was anybody really tickled pink?

Optimistic, probably. Thinking they're adequate, yes. But tickled pink? I don't think so.

 

[gbgary]

Sure, after an entire season of “Rodgers won’t run the offense”. “Rodgers won’t use the middle of the field” “Rodgers won’t throw slants”. Rodgers always looks deep” and “Rodgers wants to run his own offense and not the quick timing throws” like MLF wants, now you want us to believe you’re talking about the play calling you claim Rodgers wouldn’t pay attention to all year?

Got it

massive exaggeration there but yac is affected by the play call/design no matter who calls it. i'll go out on a limb and say over 51% of the calls that come to rodgers go unchanged. lol

 

[OldSchool101]

Just found the article below, which talks about the Packer receivers and their YAC or lack of last season due to not being able to force missed tackles. I kept thinking this to be true in my head, but never bothered to look up the stats. Just really pathetic when you compare them to the rest of the league. I still believe a lot of this is on Gute for not upgrading the WR group during his 2 years. Some of the blame has to also be placed on the coaches for not finding ways to get guys more open. I will wait for some to blame Rodgers on this too, for only throwing to guys that were tightly covered.

Key part of the article:

Here’s another unnoticed byproduct of a receiver corps that’s come from such humble draft roots. According to Pro Football Focus, the entire receiver corps forced a total of nine missed tackles. Kumerow, of all people, forced three missed tackle on his 12 catches. Adams forced two on 83 receptions, Valdes-Scantling forced two on 26 receptions (but none in the final 14 games), Lazard forced one on 35 receptions and Allison forced one on 34 receptions.

San Francisco’s Deebo Samuel and Pittsburgh’s Diontae Johnson led the league with 18 missed tackles apiece, according to PFF. Tampa Bay’s Chris Godwin forced 17, and Tennessee’s A.J. Brown and Denver’s Courtland Sutton forced 16 apiece. Individually, 18 receivers forced more than the Packers’ group combined. One of those was Randall Cobb, who forced 10.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/packers-receivers-failed-to-provide-yac-attack

I’ll just say it... It’s Rodgers fault! His nickname
should be “San Andreas”
I do believe it’s time to double down on Aaron Rodgers by getting 2 Wideouts who are good enough to get excited about.

 

[Dantés]

Again, is it coaching or talent that is the big problem?

At one time we had Edgar Bennett as our WR coach. They performed well no matter where they were drafted.

At one time, last season, we were tickled pink by all the talent we had at WR. GMo, Kumerow and MVS looked very promising. Shepard and Davis did as well as anyone in training camp this season.

So you seem it's a matter of fact that the WRs have no talent. Are you basing this entirely on stats? And how did they all suddenly become untalented?

It's difficult to discern where talent deficiencies end and coaching deficiencies begin. I have nothing substantive to hold against Whitted, nor do I think that it's a huge win that he's fired. Neither do I think he's some sacrificial lamb who was secretly an amazing coach.

That said, the following is notable.

Edgar Bennett was the WR coach from 2011 to 2014. Over that time, he worked primarily with three 2nd round picks (Nelson, Cobb, Jennings) and one 3rd round pick (Jones). Besides that, the only other notable WR impact was the tail end of Donald Driver (who was already an established, veteran receiver when Bennett showed up) and one season where Jarrett Boykin stepped up and had about 600 and 3.

Alvis Whitted in his one year as WR coach worked primarily with one 2nd round pick (Adams), one 5th round pick (Valdes-Scantling), and a number of undrafted players (Allison, Lazard, Kumerow).

The difference in draft capital invested in these two receiving corps is stark. Four picks in the top 100 vs. one such pick. I don't think it's fair to say that Bennett's guys played well no matter where they were drafted-- because by and large his guys were drafted relatively high.

I was excited for the competition at WR in camp this past year primarily because of the amount of young players we had. My feeling was that someone ought to emerge out of the pack. It wasn't that I thought we were flush with guys ready to make a major impact.

 

[Mondio]

massive exaggeration there but yac is affected by the play call/design no matter who calls it. i'll go out on a limb and say over 51% of the calls that come to rodgers go unchanged. lol

your post history says otherwise.

 

[AmishMafia]

Was anybody really tickled pink?

Optimistic, probably. Thinking they're adequate, yes. But tickled pink? I don't think so.

Maybe just me. I tend to be ticklish.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Maybe I’m being a bit sinic but you can try to coach a lack of talent into a better talent, but if that player doesn’t improve with the talent he has, it’s hard to put it all the the coaches..

 

[Pugger]

How do you personally tell the difference between talent and coaching deficiency?

Maybe the WR group was talented all along and were just getting poor coaching.

If most of your WR talent consists of late round picks and UDFAs I would say our talent at that position has been woefully neglected over the last few years.

 

[rmontro]

Just found the article below, which talks about the Packer receivers and their YAC or lack of last season due to not being able to force missed tackles. I kept thinking this to be true in my head, but never bothered to look up the stats. Just really pathetic when you compare them to the rest of the league.

And especially when we used to be one of the best teams in the league at YAC, if not the best.

 

[milani]

Packer WR Coach Alvis Whitted was fired yesterday. Not a big surprise considering the lack of performance from the group he coached. However, one might ask the question "Given the lack of talent he was asked to coach, what was expected of him?" I doubt the Packers were expecting him to turn water into wine, but I think the backward slide of both MVS and GMO probably didn't bode well. The improvement of Lazard was really the lone highlight of any of the WR;s not named Adams.

Hopefully a good change, but any new coach that they bring in HAS to be given more to work with IMO.

My suggestion, don't hire a coach with "Whitt" in their last name.

Agreed completely.

 

[Mondio]

Maybe just me. I tend to be ticklish.

Cut the pickle...

 

[GB2016]

Rodgers runs the show.

Another example of the organization making moves to appease Rodgers thereby taking the blame off of him for his average performance this year. Got a feeling it's going to get ugly next year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Rodgers runs the show.

Another example of the organization making moves to appease Rodgers thereby taking the blame off of him for his average performance this year. Got a feeling it's going to get ugly next year.

What example? The firing of a WR coach? Did you not watch Geronimo Allison and MVS seem to get worse this year? Did you see Shepherd or Kumerow get better?

What other examples are you talking about that proves Rodgers runs the show?

Was the letting go of QB coach Alex Van Pelt in 2018 meant to appease Rodgers?

 

[OldSchool101]

My suggestion, don't hire a coach with "Whitt" in their last name.

I don’t even want to see a Coach hire with any personality traits on their resume associated with the word “Whitt”! No Wit. Not Witty!future tense, past tense (Whitted). Nothing period!

ps Also no Joe’s or Alvis’ !!

How about another good Englishman Smith? Or a good Irishman or Frenchman?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nobody thought the DB's in GB stunk until they all got hurt. there's no need to look any further than that.

I don't even know what a WR coach does. But there was zero growth and looked like regression from some buys this year despite ample opportunity. Just needs to get better and it's likely coaching AND better players.

Well said Mondio. In most, if not all cases, a coach gets whacked rather than the players. Now that said, I don’t expect MVS or GMO to be back next year. Both of them actually seemed to get worse as the season wore on.

Last year, Gluten spent all his capital on D, where it was needed. Hopefully this year he has some cash to improve the WR group, even if it’s just getting a solid #2 behind Adams. And the draft is loaded with WR. So other than Adams and Lazard, there will probably be a lot of new faces in that group.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don’t expect MVS or GMO to be back next year.

I think you are right about GMO, but MVS will definitely be back since he will be on the 3rd year of a cheap 4 year rookie deal. However, he will have to prove himself worthy of being on the 53.

 

[Mondio]

If GMo has someone willing to commit any guaranteed money to him he won't be back. I'd be fine letting him come back and compete for a spot on the cheap though. MVS will compete for a spot because he's already under contract. If he's not 4th or lower on the depth chart though, we're still in trouble. Unless light bulbs go on in the offseason or we get a legit TE in the passing game. Then he can be 3rd or lower and we'll be alright.

 

[tynimiller]

I see this more of a "things need changed and shook" than he was an utter failure as a coach. He had a lower than average WR room, and sadly when they were tossed into a bigger pool they sank rather than floated.

Just a sign the organization and MLF knows WR is a true issue.

 

[tynimiller]

If he's not 4th or lower on the depth chart though, we're still in trouble. Unless light bulbs go on in the offseason or we get a legit TE in the passing game. Then he can be 3rd or lower and we'll be alright.

I want to be in a position where IF he is our 4th it is because the dude is straight smoking finally and improving and deserves it. Unlike him basically being #2 by default this year for a time when Gmo fell off.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just a sign the organization and MLF knows WR is a true issue.

I am fine with that, as long as they fully realize that it wasn't just the coach that was the issue.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If GMo has someone willing to commit any guaranteed money to him he won't be back.

After this season, if someone is willing to guarantee GMO money, I have a bridge I would like to unload on them. GMO had 4 years to prove himself, with this year being a golden opportunity to not just prove himself, but convince teams he was worthy of a decent sized contract, as well as a starter, he accomplished none of those things.

I won't shed a tear if the Packers don't try to sign him back. While I like Kumerow, I feel pretty much the same about him, at best he is your #6 WR.