All the draft complaining...let's look over the past 10 seasons...

[Dantés]

Draft is not always years down in future. It can and should also be used in areas for immediate 1-2 years improvement. We evaluate picks by what the team needs. And we've sacrificed immediate performance for a potential longer term benefit.

And AR was a potential #1 pick who fell down beyond anyone's expectations. Love is nowhere comparable to that scenario.



Because he doesn't fix any of our weak areas after last season?

Two thoughts.

1-- He very well may. The Packers were not nearly as efficient in the PA game last year as they ought to have been. I think one contributing factor to that was that they really weren't a very balanced team on offense during the first three quarters for most of the season. And when Jones wasn't out there, they weren't very threatening from the backfield. Jamaal Williams is fun and plays really hard, but he isn't very good.

2-- Just because a player doesn't address what we all viewed as the biggest needs (i.e. WR) does not mean that he can't help the team right away. That's fault thinking.

 

[GleefulGary]

If a player adds to a strength, is the team not better?

 

[AmishMafia]

Draft is not always years down in future. It can and should also be used in areas for immediate 1-2 years improvement. We evaluate picks by what the team needs. And we've sacrificed immediate performance for a potential longer term benefit.

And AR was a potential #1 pick who fell down beyond anyone's expectations. Love is nowhere comparable to that scenario.



Because he doesn't fix any of our weak areas after last season?

In all of ARs years, he only clicked with one WR in his first year. The chances of getting a great WR was better this year, but still not likely.

AR was far from a sure thing in the draft. That is why he dropped where he did. He was a Tedford system QB with poor throwing mechanics. Most if not all of Tedford QBs failed to live up to their draft status. AR was fortunate to sit for 3 years and rework his mechanics. I think if he started immediately he would have failed.

Without the benefit of knowing AR succeeded to an amazing level, the situation is quite similar.

Dont sell Love short. Many thought Love was a potential top QB for 2019 after his 2018 season. He has amazing skills and great production. With a new coach, system, and 9 starters for offense, he didn't have a great season in 2019. But we know he can be successful. Its up to our coaches and GM to mold a system and supply the talent around him to make him a great QB.

 

[XPack]

AR was far from a sure thing in the draft. That is why he dropped where he did. He was a Tedford system QB with poor throwing mechanics. Most if not all of Tedford QBs failed to live up to their draft status. AR was fortunate to sit for 3 years and rework his mechanics. I think if he started immediately he would have failed.

That sounds like revisionism. Most insiders believed AR had the edge and were surprised by the Smith pick. At worst case it was 50/50. But Smith being "more of sure thing" than AR just didn't happen.

In all of ARs years, he only clicked with one WR in his first year. The chances of getting a great WR was better this year, but still not likely.

It's all probabilities. We need a WR and this was the deepest class in long time. Again it's not just WR. We needed help in run D and other areas too, but none were addressed.

We have AR12 possibly in prime for 2 more seasons and rather than make the push to make best use of it, we just didn't build on it. I have nothing against Love and would be happy if he took over as starter after AR12. I'm just pissed we are not in mix for SB this year.

 

[Mondio]

I think if most front office people thought Rodgers was going to be what he was or had that "edge' he would have went top 5 easily. The fact he slipped so far shows just how little faith most front offices had in him. The critiques aren't revisionist, they were real at the time. and they persisted too after we saw him in the preseason. I was on ESPN boards at the time and remember some of those conversations. Even when Favre retired, I remember a bunch of Bears fans telling me to get ready to see what it was like to not play with a HOF QB because Rodgers was a Tedford guy. Good luck winning with Trent Dilfer they told me.

It wasn't until year 3 Rodgers gave me any hope he'd be an NFL QB. Then I was pretty convinced he would be.

 

[PackAttack12]

I think some are underestimating how much Jones and Dillon will be on the field together. If Dillon lives up to his billing, he's going to provide an added dimension to the offense in multiple ways.

 

[GleefulGary]

Rodgers was so good and impressive coming out, that he fell to the end of the first round, AND the GM that drafted him took another QB in the 2nd round 3 years after taking Rodgers.

Acting as if Rodgers was a sure thing is revisionist history.

 

[AmishMafia]

I think if most front office people thought Rodgers was going to be what he was or had that "edge' he would have went top 5 easily. The fact he slipped so far shows just how little faith most front offices had in him. The critiques aren't revisionist, they were real at the time. and they persisted too after we saw him in the preseason. I was on ESPN boards at the time and remember some of those conversations. Even when Favre retired, I remember a bunch of Bears fans telling me to get ready to see what it was like to not play with a HOF QB because Rodgers was a Tedford guy. Good luck winning with Trent Dilfer they told me.

It wasn't until year 3 Rodgers gave me any hope he'd be an NFL QB. Then I was pretty convinced he would be.

And some of those teams that passed on Rodgers needed a QB. Now consider that QBs usually get overdrafted because of positional importance, and you can see there was a lot of doubt regarding Rodgers.

There is a lot of doubt about Love as well. I am a firm believer in letting a QB sit for a bit. I think a QB can get ruined if they are put in before they are ready. If they can develop Love, he maybe a great QB for us in 3 years.

Then in 14 years we will see posts about how Love was such a sure thing, Gute got lucky he dropped, and Gute shouldn't have drafted a QB to replace a HOFer like Love but should have gotten him more weapons.

 

[GleefulGary]

I was a bit young, but I remember a huge thing on Rodgers was that he was a system QB. He was a Jeff Tedford QB, and by and large, those guys were always overdrafted with little success in the NFL. So teams were leery about that. Didn't have prototypical size. Had a good arm coming out, but not an elite arm. Weird mechanics.

Obviously, they were wrong. He drastically improved his arm, his mechanics, his footwork. Mike McCarthy obviously deserves a little credit too. But yes, Rodgers developed quite a bit after college. He has even said he's grateful he got to go to GB, because if he had to play right away for a bad team, things might not have turned out the way they did. Situation has so much to do with how a QB plays. Alex Smith and Jared Goff are prime examples of this.

Let's also not forget the GB coaches were begging Ted not to take Rodgers. This idea that he was the clear cut #1 QB is nothing but shoddy revisionist history.

 

[Toad1924]

Even if Rodgers wasn't a sure thing, what does that have to do with Love becoming a good/great NFL QB? Taking Rodgers was a big risk and it paid off. Now, 15 years later, taking Love is also a big risk. We will see if it pays off. They are two different players/people.

I know most people aren't making the argment, but Rodgers turning into a HOF QB is not an argument for the Love selection being a good one. Only Love's performance will tell us that.

I hope Love becomes a HOF QB but I am in the boat that we should have been using every available resource to build a SB team over the next 3/4 season while we have a HOF QB (IMO if Love ever reaches Rodgers ability right now, that is a win). So when people say that a WR (or whoever we could have taken with our 1st and 4th) probably won't help this year, that may or may not be true but they probably will in years 2, 3, 4. We aren't only building for this year. We are also trying to win a SB next year and the year after until Rodgers is gone or he is injured/ineffective.

We also haven't addressed or Defensive issues but hopefully that will come with the remaining FA's.

 

[Mavster]

I was a bit young, but I remember a huge thing on Rodgers was that he was a system QB. He was a Jeff Tedford QB, and by and large, those guys were always overdrafted with little success in the NFL. So teams were leery about that. Didn't have prototypical size. Had a good arm coming out, but not an elite arm. Weird mechanics.

Obviously, they were wrong. He drastically improved his arm, his mechanics, his footwork. Mike McCarthy obviously deserves a little credit too. But yes, Rodgers developed quite a bit after college. He has even said he's grateful he got to go to GB, because if he had to play right away for a bad team, things might not have turned out the way they did. Situation has so much to do with how a QB plays. Alex Smith and Jared Goff are prime examples of this.

Let's also not forget the GB coaches were begging Ted not to take Rodgers. This idea that he was the clear cut #1 QB is nothing but shoddy revisionist history.

What? Rodgers was literally the 2nd QB taken in the draft. Plenty and plenty of folks were raving about him before the draft. It’s not like we stumbled upon some 6th round diamond in the rough who stunk in college lol

 

[PackAttack12]

What? Rodgers was literally the 2nd QB taken in the draft. Plenty and plenty of folks were raving about him before the draft. It’s not like we stumbled upon some 6th round diamond in the rough who stunk in college lol

And even though he wasn't the "clear cut" 1st overall pick, he was absolutely in the discussion with Smith for who would go 1st. Many were quite surprised, actually.

In Love, we took a guy that many had somewhere between 4 and 6 on their QB board and traded up to get him. Only time will be able to tell the story on this one.

 

[AmishMafia]

What? Rodgers was literally the 2nd QB taken in the draft. Plenty and plenty of folks were raving about him before the draft. It’s not like we stumbled upon some 6th round diamond in the rough who stunk in college lol

Plenty of folks? Apparently word did not get out to the 22 GMs that picked before Ted.

There are plenty of folks raving about Love as well.

 

[AmishMafia]

Even if Rodgers wasn't a sure thing, what does that have to do with Love becoming a good/great NFL QB? Taking Rodgers was a big risk and it paid off. Now, 15 years later, taking Love is also a big risk. We will see if it pays off. They are two different players/people.

I know most people aren't making the argment, but Rodgers turning into a HOF QB is not an argument for the Love selection being a good one. Only Love's performance will tell us that.

I hope Love becomes a HOF QB but I am in the boat that we should have been using every available resource to build a SB team over the next 3/4 season while we have a HOF QB (IMO if Love ever reaches Rodgers ability right now, that is a win). So when people say that a WR (or whoever we could have taken with our 1st and 4th) probably won't help this year, that may or may not be true but they probably will in years 2, 3, 4. We aren't only building for this year. We are also trying to win a SB next year and the year after until Rodgers is gone or he is injured/ineffective.

We also haven't addressed or Defensive issues but hopefully that will come with the remaining FA's.

I think the point is that the QB is so important, you shouldn't wait till you need one to start looking for one. To illustrate we can look at how TT didn't wait and seized what he saw as an opportunity. The Packers have benefited greatly from that decision and even brought home another Lombardi. Had we gone a different route, who knows if we would have.

If you wait, you have to throw the guy in there before he is probably ready. Setting yourself up for failure.

Will Love suceed? I hope so, but there are no guarantees. If I am the GM and I don't like what I see in year 2 from Love, I'm investing another high pick. Keep going to you hi r a good one.

 

[GleefulGary]

What? Rodgers was literally the 2nd QB taken in the draft. Plenty and plenty of folks were raving about him before the draft. It’s not like we stumbled upon some 6th round diamond in the rough who stunk in college lol

I never said otherwise. Lot of people like to think he was a no-brainer prospect and that just isn't accurate.

 

[GleefulGary]

And even though he wasn't the "clear cut" 1st overall pick, he was absolutely in the discussion with Smith for who would go 1st. Many were quite surprised, actually.

In Love, we took a guy that many had somewhere between 4 and 6 on their QB board and traded up to get him. Only time will be able to tell the story on this one.

Teams have changed the way they draft QB's since Rodgers was picked. Also, 2nd QB picked vs 4th QB picked is an faulty argument. It doesn't matter at all.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ok... so why couldn't the #2 running back help the team in 2020?

It's possible for the backup running back to help the team but most likely drafting s starter at a different position would have resulted in a larger impact for next season.

He did it last year, and you're not believing...

We saw Jones and Williams on the field at the same time, so it's likely Dillon will too.

MLF used 1.22 running backs per snap on offense last season, not a huge number compared to other teams by any means.

I can see where this is confusing to you, but the point is that Jones + Dillon > Jones + Williams.

Jones + a second round WR/OT/DL/ILB/CB > Jones + Dillon

Just because a player doesn't address what we all viewed as the biggest needs (i.e. WR) does not mean that he can't help the team right away. That's fault thinking.

On the other hand it's fault thinking that a starter at a different position wouldn't have helped the team more than a backup running back.

If a player adds to a strength, is the team not better?

It would be been better by adding talent to a weakness though.

Dont sell Love short. Many thought Love was a potential top QB for 2019 after his 2018 season. He has amazing skills and great production. With a new coach, system, and 9 starters for offense, he didn't have a great season in 2019. But we know he can be successful. Its up to our coaches and GM to mold a system and supply the talent around him to make him a great QB.

Once again, fans ignore that Love struggled against the only decent opponent he faced in 2018 as well.

 

[Dantés]

It's possible for the backup running back to help the team but most likely drafting s starter at a different position would have resulted in a larger impact for next season.

On the other hand it's fault thinking that a starter at a different position wouldn't have helped the team more than a backup running back.

In a vacuum this is accurate. The draft is not a vacuum. The FO had to choose between real options that they had evaluated at different levels. They chose Dillon, and time will tell whether or not he was a good choice.

But I'm glad we scratched another fallacy off the list.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

In a vacuum this is accurate. The draft is not a vacuum. The FO had to choose between real options that they had evaluated at different levels. They chose Dillon, and time will tell whether or not he was a good choice.

But I'm glad we scratched another fallacy off the list.

The only fallacy in the discussion being you believing that there wasn't any prospect available at #62 at a position of need capable of having an impact in 2020 forcibg the Packers to select Dillon.

 

[Dantés]

The only fallacy in the discussion being you believing that there wasn't any prospect available at #62 at a position of need capable of having an impact in 2020 forcibg the Packers to select Dillon.

Another instance of you putting words in my mouth. You're on a roll! It's a pathetic roll... but a roll nonetheless.

 

[rmontro]

Acting as if Rodgers was a sure thing is revisionist history.

No one is a sure thing, but Rodgers was considered a high value bargain for where he was taken. There was a lot of discussion about the 49ers taking him #1, but went with Alex Smith instead. I don't recall any talk abotu Love being taken with the #1 pick. Love was the fourth quarterback taken off the board.

 

[RRyder]

What? Rodgers was literally the 2nd QB taken in the draft. Plenty and plenty of folks were raving about him before the draft. It’s not like we stumbled upon some 6th round diamond in the rough who stunk in college lol

While he wasn't some diamond in the rough people really are hung up on the "in the discussion for the number one pick" part.

Niether Smith or Rodgers were top 15 prospects going into that draft and the ONLY reason either was in discussion to go #1 overall was because they played QB and SF needed one. Niether were prospects people were raving about other then normally pre draft hype where there's 32 all pros drafted in round one. Its also why it became clear a free fall was in store for Rodgers on draft day once Miami passed on him.

Now obviously Rodgers exceeded any and all expectations but people seem to think "being talked about going #1" some how means "well he must of been considered one of the best prospects going into that draft if he was talked about that high"

 

[RRyder]

No one is a sure thing, but Rodgers was considered a high value bargain for where he was taken. There was a lot of discussion about the 49ers taking him #1, but went with Alex Smith instead. I don't recall any talk abotu Love being taken with the #1 pick. Love was the fourth quarterback taken off the board.

Love had been projected as high a #6 in a MUCH better QB draft in terms of prospects then the Smith/Rodgers draft

 

[rmontro]

people seem to think "being talked about going #1" some how means "well he must of been considered one of the best prospects going into that draft if he was talked about that high"

That is my recollection, that he was considered one of the best prospects going into that draft. Which is why it was such a surprise he fell to #22.

 

[RRyder]

That is my recollection, that he was considered one of the best prospects going into that draft. Which is why it was such a surprise he fell to #22.

You're recollection is off then. That was a quintessential "well the #1 team needs a QB so I guess the #1 pick has to be a QB regardless if he's a top 10 prospect or not" draft.