A Jordan Love Contract

[Heyjoe4]

I think it's a case of who caves first; Miami/Tua or GB/Love. The last one signing gets an extra nickel to be #1.

"Extra nickel" is right. These contracts get reworked every three years or so if the player lives up to the deal, and guys with new deals get more money. I don't know about a holdout. This is the first I've heard of that possibility. I'm not certain Love would let that happen, but I'm not that gullible either and a million bucks (or two or three or ten) is a lotta money.

I still don't buy it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I know we can laugh and compared to #10 we probably should.

Clifford was a very good QB for Penn State several seasons ago. He benefits from Starting 46 games in College and posted a very solid 144% Passer rating across his last 4 years. I recall Jordan Love making a claim that Clifford “picked up the Offense faster than himself” his Rookie season. Thats a big time statement made by Love. Clifford left college with school records for passing yards, touchdowns and wins. He wasn’t just good, he was terrific and now he’s 2 years in this system. I’d fully expect Clifford to function at least decently within this Offense if he was thrust into the limelight. I also think a second year with Clements tutoring him is invaluable.

Clifford is good and a solid #2 IMO. Who is the other QB they drafted late this year? Pratt? Supposed to be better than Clifford based on early press.

This is how Ron Wolf did business. Even with Favre in the fold, he'd draft and develop QBs and then trade em. It's a good strategy all around. Never seemed to bother Favre either.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I guess it's a bit off topic but I'm hoping Pratt lights it up in preseason and takes over the number two job. If for no other reason than that we will have improved there. Not too worried about Clifford getting snagged off the ps and we could protect him, I think, if we wanted to. I have not seen Pratt play but it sounds like he is not being overwhelmed and that he has a good and accurate arm. Hope it can be relatively apples to apples when we get a chance to compare them. At any rate, for me, an interesting competition for the preseason. Another one will be Stokes and Valentine.

Pratt - thanks I thought that was the guy's name. Early press on him is good.

Gluten is following Ron Wolf's playbook by drafting and developing QBs. Some of them may become good enough to consider starting, although that requires real playing time, so it's a mixed blessing. They then make good trade capital. It's just smart drafting if the right guys are there.

 

[tynimiller]

I guess it's a bit off topic but I'm hoping Pratt lights it up in preseason and takes over the number two job. If for no other reason than that we will have improved there. Not too worried about Clifford getting snagged off the ps and we could protect him, I think, if we wanted to. I have not seen Pratt play but it sounds like he is not being overwhelmed and that he has a good and accurate arm. Hope it can be relatively apples to apples when we get a chance to compare them. At any rate, for me, an interesting competition for the preseason. Another one will be Stokes and Valentine.

Honestly I think the comp between Valentine and King will be the race. A healthy Stokes I would fully expect becomes our clear CB2 on outside

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess it's a bit off topic but I'm hoping Pratt lights it up in preseason and takes over the number two job. If for no other reason than that we will have improved there. Not too worried about Clifford getting snagged off the ps and we could protect him, I think, if we wanted to. I have not seen Pratt play but it sounds like he is not being overwhelmed and that he has a good and accurate arm. Hope it can be relatively apples to apples when we get a chance to compare them. At any rate, for me, an interesting competition for the preseason. Another one will be Stokes and Valentine.

Yes
Between the two,,, I’m hoping one earns the backup job

I’m not feeling very confident today so sorry!

 

[El Guapo]

Clifford left college with school records for passing yards, touchdowns and wins. He wasn’t just good, he was terrific and now he’s 2 years in this system.

Clifford's an example of Gutekunst's dedication to drafting character, leadership... intelligence...

You both gave great examples of Clifford's skills. I guess that I'm still relying on training camp reports from last year that Clifford doesn't really have an NFL arm, meaning he just doesn't have the strength to get it deep with speed. I only heard that twice, but if it truly is the case then NFL secondaries will play the under and make it really difficult for him to find throwing windows. I think that these were podcasts so I won't be able to find the references again, but they basically said that Love could hit long passes/bombs with accuracy and speed, while Clifford's long balls lacked speed and hung up in the air longer, the further that he tried to throw. Maybe that will change with more practice, weights, and Clements working on his mechanics. Who knows.

To Thirteen Below's point, I think that he specifically was brought in for his intelligence and to be a second "teacher" to Love, just like Doug Pederson was to Favre. It's the guy with the brains teaching the guy with the talent. Love has the brains too but it helps to have that student-of-the-game sitting next to you in meetings and film review, telling you things that the coaches may not be able to impart.

I hope that we never have to see Sean do more than a few kneel-downs or garbage time throws. If he is thrust into the mix, I think that he will be a bit like Josh Dobbs for the Vikings last year. He'll surprise the first few teams but then fall into more of a game manager style once defenses pick out his strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Heyjoe4]

You both gave great examples of Clifford's skills. I guess that I'm still relying on training camp reports from last year that Clifford doesn't really have an NFL arm, meaning he just doesn't have the strength to get it deep with speed. I only heard that twice, but if it truly is the case then NFL secondaries will play the under and make it really difficult for him to find throwing windows. I think that these were podcasts so I won't be able to find the references again, but they basically said that Love could hit long passes/bombs with accuracy and speed, while Clifford's long balls lacked speed and hung up in the air longer, the further that he tried to throw. Maybe that will change with more practice, weights, and Clements working on his mechanics. Who knows.

To Thirteen Below's point, I think that he specifically was brought in for his intelligence and to be a second "teacher" to Love, just like Doug Pederson was to Favre. It's the guy with the brains teaching the guy with the talent. Love has the brains too but it helps to have that student-of-the-game sitting next to you in meetings and film review, telling you things that the coaches may not be able to impart.

I hope that we never have to see Sean do more than a few kneel-downs or garbage time throws. If he is thrust into the mix, I think that he will be a bit like Josh Dobbs for the Vikings last year. He'll surprise the first few teams but then fall into more of a game manager style once defenses pick out his strengths and weaknesses.

Interesting. I hadn't heard that criticism of Clifford's long ball, but I wasn't paying much attention. It makes sense that a #2 QB, not possessing the talent of a starter, will have some weaknesses. And I remember Dobbs being a big and pleasant surprise for the Queens, until he wasn't.

I think a solid #2 QB can come in and play .500 ball or better until the starter returns. If Clifford can be developed beyond that, great. That makes him solid trade bait. As for Pratt, well ya can't have too many good arms on the team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Honestly I think the comp between Valentine and King will be the race. A healthy Stokes I would fully expect becomes our clear CB2 on outside

Agreed. It's fair to have high expectations from Stokes as long as he's healthy. He played like a first round pick as a rookie. Hopefully the injuries are now behind him and he can start opposite JA. If Valentine keeps playing well and
King can contribute, so much the better.

 

[Thirteen Below]

You both gave great examples of Clifford's skills. I guess that . I think that these were podcasts so I won't be able to find the references again, but they basically said that Love could hit long passes/bombs with accuracy and speed, while Clifford's long balls lacked speed and hung up in the air longer, the further that he tried to throw. Maybe that will change with more practice, weights, and Clements working on his mechanics. Who knows.

He'll have had a full offseason to follow whatever NFL-level workout program Clements and the team laid out for him, and I would expect to see some significant improvements in technique, arm strength, footwork, etc.

As far as Clifford vs Pratt are concerned, those two are probably going to make the preseason a lot more interesting than most. They'll both have a lot riding on the relatively few snaps they'll get in trhose games; we should see the best of what each has to offer in a pressure-packed situation.

 

[rmontro]

I think a solid #2 QB can come in and play .500 ball or better until the starter returns. If Clifford can be developed beyond that, great. That makes him solid trade bait. As for Pratt, well ya can't have too many good arms on the team.

I think they call this first world problems.

 

[Firethorn1001]

If the Packers have to put up $440M as part of the appeal bond, no way Love getting signed before camp starts and maybe not until after the season. Not going to go on the hook for $440M and then guarantee another $200M+ right away. That 14B is potentially going to hang over the NFL for years.

 

[Thirteen Below]

If the Packers have to put up $440M as part of the appeal bond, no way Love getting signed before camp starts and maybe not until after the season. Not going to go on the hook for $440M and then guarantee another $200M+ right away. That 14B is potentially going to hang over the NFL for years.

Jesus.... is that really how it is? Because that would have a devastating immediate impact on the salary cap of just about every team in the league.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think they call this first world problems.

Exactly right. Or rich folks' problems. Like, "Oh no, the Mercedes has a scratch in it! What am I to do? Arthur, get me a glass of wine and hurry! Oh, the pain!"

Similar to the WR situation in GB now, another first-world problem. It's nice to also be settled at the QB position (and yeah, I'm assuming Love is the real deal). Makes up for those years when GB had an unhappy QB, an unknown backup, and Adams was gone. And that's not pinning anything on Rodgers, it was just a hard time for the team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If the Packers have to put up $440M as part of the appeal bond, no way Love getting signed before camp starts and maybe not until after the season. Not going to go on the hook for $440M and then guarantee another $200M+ right away. That 14B is potentially going to hang over the NFL for years.

Hey Fire what is that 14B fine about? I haven't been following. Thanks.

And let's just say they are on the hook for $440m. That would not affect cap space, right, or the ability to play players and stay within the cap? Now that may take the team and the entire operation into the red, but they could still pay their players. I think this is right. So it will come down to the BOD's willingness to take a huge financial hit that may take a few years to make up. And every team will face the same predicament, with big-city teams better able to absorb it.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think this fine affects their ability to do a contract with Love now, or with anyone else.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Hey Fire what is that 14B fine about? I haven't been following. Thanks.

And let's just say they are on the hook for $440m. That would not affect cap space, right, or the ability to play players and stay within the cap? Now that may take the team and the entire operation into the red, but they could still pay their players. I think this is right. So it will come down to the BOD's willingness to take a huge financial hit that may take a few years to make up. And every team will face the same predicament, with big-city teams better able to absorb it.

Anyway, my point is that I don't think this fine affects their ability to do a contract with Love now, or with anyone else.

This is my high level notes on it. There are a bunch of articles out there explaining what is going on in much more detail and explain it better than I can. (I still can't wrap my head around how you can win a $14B lawsuit for something that is essentially a voluntary purchase.... truly 1st world problems but that's for another discussion)

Short version. The fine is in relation to the Sunday Ticket Package and the NFL being sued for violating Anti-trust law for it. The award was some 4.7B, but then tripled under anti trust law to make it a little over $14B.

Obviously the NFL is appealing that, but typically in order to appeal you need to front the money so it's put aside just in case an entity would go bankrupt fighting it. In that case, the NFL could be pushed to front $14B right away (some $440M per team). There is a judge reviewing right now. That judge could make a bunch of different rulings. Could agree with the NFL that the amount requested for appeal is a significant financial issue for them and reduce the amount required on bond, could force the NFL to post the amount for the appeal, could throw out the case entirely or reduce it to some other amount. I think the post verdict ruling is July 31st.

Worst case the NFL loses the case in the end and had has to pay out $14B or even needs to put up the full amount towards an appeal bond. Many owners don't have $440M laying around just to pay fines or put in essentially escrow immediately so, it would be an issue for a segment of the league. For the Packers, they have close to $600M in reserves so they have the ability to do it, but how much would they need to dip into that money for this (they could take out loans) impacts what they have laying around for contract signing bonuses.

If the fine is paid out it almost certainly will impact salary caps and drive those down (some are saying even remove the cap altogether) given the Sunday Ticket Package needs to be reworked and owners will account for that 14B of loss. It could really turn the NFL upside down in the short term with caps/cash. (18 game seasons would most assuredly happen and I could almost see expansion on the table so the owners recovered a significant amount in entry fees) So, in that regards, that is how it could impact the signing of Love to a contract right now because their cash reserves might be significantly impacted and the future cap would really be thrown into question. Plus if you are asking a judge to reduce the appeal amount because of financial hardship, probably looks bad if one of your 'owners' gives out essentially 200M after the ruling. ("You claim you don't have the money, but post verdict a team dished out $200M in new contracts??")

 

[Snoops]

Sounds like they are wrapping up the contract ext news should break any day now. Loves agent is pushing for fully guaranteed contract and Green Bay isn’t for it but he is about to be the highest paid qb 56-58 range

 

[sschind]

If the Packers have to put up $440M as part of the appeal bond, no way Love getting signed before camp starts and maybe not until after the season. Not going to go on the hook for $440M and then guarantee another $200M+ right away. That 14B is potentially going to hang over the NFL for years.

So how many owners do the Packers have? If you all pony up a bit it shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Seriously though I'm with you on the voluntary purchase thing. Apparently the lawsuit was originally filed by one man and was dismissed at some level. It was reinstated as a class action suit later on.

 

[mradtke66]

If the fine is paid out it almost certainly will impact salary caps and drive those down (some are saying even remove the cap altogether) given the Sunday Ticket Package needs to be reworked and owners will account for that 14B of loss.

I think it's entirely more complicated than that.

The 14 Billion shouldn't immediately hurt the cap. The cap splits revenue not profit, so this might be entirely an owners problem.

Of course, since the Sunday Ticket Package contract as-is deemed illegal, it presumably has to be re-written/re-negotiated. Similarly, I would expect the NFL to get less for those rights, which would reduce the cap, at least a little bit.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I think it's entirely more complicated than that.

The 14 Billion shouldn't immediately hurt the cap. The cap splits revenue not profit, so this might be entirely an owners problem.

Of course, since the Sunday Ticket Package contract as-is deemed illegal, it presumably has to be re-written/re-negotiated. Similarly, I would expect the NFL to get less for those rights, which would reduce the cap, at least a little bit.

No, this won't be a "cap implication" sort of thing. This will be an actual cash outlay issue that teams will have to grapple with. If they each have to set aside $400MM in cash reserve for this lawsuit, that will greatly impact how much they are able (depending on the wealthiness of each particular owner) guaranty on contracts to players. Guaranteed portions of contracts have to be set aside in a reserve. So, if someone let's say, want to guaranty $300MM of a QB's contract, that amount needs to be set in reserve. So, in addition to this $300MM the owner will have to also set aside the $400MM lawsuit money, for a total of $700MM. That's a LOT of cashola doled out into reserve accounts not doing anything.

 

[mradtke66]

No, this won't be a "cap implication" sort of thing.

That was my point as well. This verdict and fine doesn't impact revenue, ergo the cap won't be impacted.

HOWEVER, the outcome could modify the contract that controls Sunday Ticket. Whatever changes must be made to that deal could impact the cap, once the dust settles. It's also possible that Sunday Ticket is killed if the language required to make it compliant is a touch pill to swallow. That would impact as now there would be a dip in revenue.

 

[Pkrjones]

So how many owners do the Packers have? If you all pony up a bit it shouldn't be that big of a problem.

There are over 537,000 "owners" (my wife & I are 2!! ). GB could send us all an assessment of $820/share & the tab would be covered, but I hope that doesn't happen.

Murphy said (2015 speech) selling naming rights would NEVER HAPPEN... but that is one possible UNtapped revenue stream. Fiserv Lambeau Field, or Snap-On Lambeau??

 

[Firethorn1001]

That was my point as well. This verdict and fine doesn't impact revenue, ergo the cap won't be impacted.

HOWEVER, the outcome could modify the contract that controls Sunday Ticket.

Agree. Verdict does nothing, but the revenue stream from the Sunday ticket going away, reduced or whatever does impact the cap. Plus I imagine that cash strapped teams might not want to spend much more over the floor to recover money.

Granted, this is all worse case scenarios for the NFL. Thing could just as likely be thrown out or the fine greatly reduced. But hey, all the people attached to this can look forward to their settlement check of $1.09 while the lawyers take home the other 12B. Class actions lawsuits are for lawyers to get rich not compensate anyone really wronged by anything.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Thanks to all who provided input to my question. I think the net is that this fine won't affect the contract negotiation/extension for Love. It could result in lower revenue to the NFL in the future if Sunday Ticket cost comes down. That decrease in revenue would impact the salary cap.

I don't know. This is above my pay grade. Get Love signed and let's see some football!

 

[Heyjoe4]

This is my high level notes on it. There are a bunch of articles out there explaining what is going on in much more detail and explain it better than I can. (I still can't wrap my head around how you can win a $14B lawsuit for something that is essentially a voluntary purchase.... truly 1st world problems but that's for another discussion)

Short version. The fine is in relation to the Sunday Ticket Package and the NFL being sued for violating Anti-trust law for it. The award was some 4.7B, but then tripled under anti trust law to make it a little over $14B.

Obviously the NFL is appealing that, but typically in order to appeal you need to front the money so it's put aside just in case an entity would go bankrupt fighting it. In that case, the NFL could be pushed to front $14B right away (some $440M per team). There is a judge reviewing right now. That judge could make a bunch of different rulings. Could agree with the NFL that the amount requested for appeal is a significant financial issue for them and reduce the amount required on bond, could force the NFL to post the amount for the appeal, could throw out the case entirely or reduce it to some other amount. I think the post verdict ruling is July 31st.

Worst case the NFL loses the case in the end and had has to pay out $14B or even needs to put up the full amount towards an appeal bond. Many owners don't have $440M laying around just to pay fines or put in essentially escrow immediately so, it would be an issue for a segment of the league. For the Packers, they have close to $600M in reserves so they have the ability to do it, but how much would they need to dip into that money for this (they could take out loans) impacts what they have laying around for contract signing bonuses.

If the fine is paid out it almost certainly will impact salary caps and drive those down (some are saying even remove the cap altogether) given the Sunday Ticket Package needs to be reworked and owners will account for that 14B of loss. It could really turn the NFL upside down in the short term with caps/cash. (18 game seasons would most assuredly happen and I could almost see expansion on the table so the owners recovered a significant amount in entry fees) So, in that regards, that is how it could impact the signing of Love to a contract right now because their cash reserves might be significantly impacted and the future cap would really be thrown into question. Plus if you are asking a judge to reduce the appeal amount because of financial hardship, probably looks bad if one of your 'owners' gives out essentially 200M after the ruling. ("You claim you don't have the money, but post verdict a team dished out $200M in new contracts??")

Thanks for taking the time to write this summary Fire. It certainly is an important issue facing the NFL.

 

[mradtke66]

Agree. Verdict does nothing, but the revenue stream from the Sunday ticket going away, reduced or whatever does impact the cap. Plus I imagine that cash strapped teams might not want to spend much more over the floor to recover money.

The teams will be just as willing to spend, though they might be less willing to offer guarantees if they end up cash-poor.

Granted, this is all worse case scenarios for the NFL. Thing could just as likely be thrown out or the fine greatly reduced.

There is even a small chance the revenue could increase. If the contract is voided, there could be a fresh round of negotiations or bids. Unlikely, but possible.