1st offical fire Sherman thread of the regular season.

[HatestheEagles084]

I think Aaron Rodgers/2005 draft is the least of our problems, but here I go...

I wish that we would've gotten a solid impact defensive player with the 24th pick...Matt Roth who almost fell to us at #51, Odell Thurman doing a good job playing LB in cincy, I could go on...

The point is, a few weeks before Alex Smith impressed critics, Aaron Rodgers was the #1 pick in the draft; we got him at 24...in a perfect world we draft defense with our first (and another front seven player with one of our seconds), and drafted kyle orton round three...but we got a guy who, in years of greater need, would've went top ten, its alright

now the next time we get a top ten pick (face it...) we can draft a stud to build our defense around...

 

[dhpackr]

I don't care what Sherman could have done... I mean really......!
Look at it this way, depending on how their Season meters out.. Check out the game that Kyle Orton just had.. and I posted everywhere that the Packers should have drafted him...

I think the real reason for the start of this thread is this ----

Sherman has demonstrated a trend which started in 2002, or at least showed evidence of it back then when we lost the Home Opener to Minnesota and really shouldn't have... After that, the next year, We got lucky on MNF against the Panthers because no one in the NFL would have been prepped for the SLOWik blitz scheme, there was no film to review yet... But, immediately after that, look what happened out in Arizona in front of over 33,000 Cheeseheads... and so on and so on....

So, YES.... there is a trend... a habit, if you will.... of starting the Season blind.. of not reviewing opponents game film so as to understand the nature of the other Coaches and what they have as habits..

You can tell good Coaches and their ability to play a good Chess game... i.e - I remeind everyone of how Belicheck "let" Shanahan have that Safety for two points and immediately drove down the field (now with plenty of time to spare) and scored the winning TD.. Shanahan was highly embarrassed.. trust me.

So what is it that Sherman is failing to realize and understand in Coach preparation?

Point being.. is this ---

Does Sherman prep and in what ways would that be? Good question!

Is Sherman a hard enough Coach on these Players?
(I would vote a resounding NO.. throwing temper tantrums which last all of 45 seconds isn't getting anyone's fear scale to rise...)

Are Sherman's practices all week long... too soft?
(One wonders... they look winded more often than not. And just now, we're hearing that screw-ups have started to earn laps around the Frozen Tundra.. Was he reading this Forum? Could be, we mentioned it right here...)

Does Mike Sherman listen to his Assistants?
(Last year in many games, at the last minute, he would change his game plan and no one would be ready because of it)

My Fav - Is Sherman lying about who it is that actually calls the plays during the game?
(I vote YES on this one - it smells too much like what we saw in AZ in 2003 and that was ALL ROSSLEY...)

Opinions? Comments?

i'm not saying i want sherman ranting and raving, but i don't think his players respect him. remember holmgren lighting into shroeder? and holmgren getting all over ross verba 'cause his hair was to long. he would get in favre's face, his player respected him, and he got them fired up. and it seemed they wanted to do well for him. i wish we could have TT, holmgren and sherman and bates. but that would never be possible.
it just seems like sherman watches the games, he just doesn't know what to do if his pre-determined game plan fails.
bottom line, i don't know if the talent level is there. can GBP WRers get seperation from opposing DB's.
kampman had a decent game 1, but the second game i didn't see him do anything. our strong LBer can't cover anybody, and our SS can't tackle or run.
and these are sherman's players. if sherman wants to keep his job, he better get his team motivated, and start winning.
plus sherman seems dead in interviews, and press confrences, showing no emotion.

 

[musccy]

TT is dead and emotionless in interviews and press conferences...but who cares?

I agree w/ you to an extent about Holmgren and Favre...he (and everyone) needs someone to get in his grill every now and then. However, at the same time, we don't know that that isn't going on in the lockeroom (actually, I KNOW it's been going on w/ at least Carroll), and...like I've said before, that isn't necessarily the only approach that works. Parcells likes to bark and scream, and the cowboys just blew a 13 point lead last night and missed the playoffs last year.

 

[ORRELSE]

TT is dead and emotionless in interviews and press conferences...but who cares?

I agree w/ you to an extent about Holmgren and Favre...he (and everyone) needs someone to get in his grill every now and then. However, at the same time, we don't know that that isn't going on in the lockeroom (actually, I KNOW it's been going on w/ at least Carroll), and...like I've said before, that isn't necessarily the only approach that works. Parcells likes to bark and scream, and the cowboys just blew a 13 point lead last night and missed the playoffs last year.

And have you ever seen Bill Belichick get upset?
This lame argument from these people wanting emotion from Sherman need to get a clue. How that affects wins/losses is beyond me. Ludicrous.

 

[P@ck66]

ORELSE...

YOu must have never played the game to think that motivation and emotion are not part of it...and the fact that a team feeds off of it's coach's personality...

Human Psychology 101

 

[ORRELSE]

ORELSE...

YOu must have never played the game to think that motivation and emotion are not part of it...and the fact that a team feeds off of it's coach's personality...

Human Psychology 101

Whatever. I played football all thru high school, I had a college hockey scholarship too. I never said emotion wasn't part of football so don't start assuming or misquoting me.

Tom Coughlin is a pretty firey guy on the sidelines. How many rings does he have again? Hmmm....seems he was pretty much booted out of town in JAX cause all his players hated him too. :roll:

Any more Psychology 101 for me, genius?

 

[musccy]

Pack66...

You never respond to ppl that bring up Belichek's lack of emotion.

Also, if firey coaches are all you need, then how did Parcells blow a 13 point lead on Monday night?

 

[Zero2Cool]

Pack66...

You never respond to ppl that bring up Belichek's lack of emotion.

Also, if firey coaches are all you need, then how did Parcells blow a 13 point lead on Monday night?

Easy.


Moss

 

[dhpackr]

TT is dead and emotionless in interviews and press conferences...but who cares?

I agree w/ you to an extent about Holmgren and Favre...he (and everyone) needs someone to get in his grill every now and then. However, at the same time, we don't know that that isn't going on in the lockeroom (actually, I KNOW it's been going on w/ at least Carroll), and...like I've said before, that isn't necessarily the only approach that works. Parcells likes to bark and scream, and the cowboys just blew a 13 point lead last night and missed the playoffs last year.

And have you ever seen Bill Belichick get upset?
This lame argument from these people wanting emotion from Sherman need to get a clue. How that affects wins/losses is beyond me. Ludicrous.


did you ever play organized sports?

 

[dhpackr]

ORELSE...

YOu must have never played the game to think that motivation and emotion are not part of it...and the fact that a team feeds off of it's coach's personality...

Human Psychology 101

funny, i said the same thing to the guy

 

[dhpackr]

ORELSE...

YOu must have never played the game to think that motivation and emotion are not part of it...and the fact that a team feeds off of it's coach's personality...

Human Psychology 101

Whatever. I played football all thru high school, I had a college hockey scholarship too. I never said emotion wasn't part of football so don't start assuming or misquoting me.

Tom Coughlin is a pretty firey guy on the sidelines. How many rings does he have again? Hmmm....seems he was pretty much booted out of town in JAX cause all his players hated him too. :roll:

Any more Psychology 101 for me, genius?

i thought the same thing to myself when i read your post, "did you ever play organized sports". you say yes, but i can't see how you feel sherman's players respect him. it's not about yelling at people. it's about respecting your coach, and wanting to do well, and not make mistakes. some coaches are better at getting players to achieve than others. i don't see sherman as a great motivator, but maybe i'm wrong. maybe the team will turn it around, and sherman will be here two more years.

 

[musccy]

DHpacker...yes, I participated in athletics...I've had firey coaches, even keeled coaches, and in betweeners and have seen the whole spectrum of success resulting from all approaches.

As for Sherman losing his team, or them not respecting him? I see where you're coming from, but keep in mind that we said that after last year's 1-4 start, and a team that does not respect their coach would not turn around like the Packers of last year did. This is a new year, however, so we'll see if the team respects him w/ how they respond.

 

[Philtration]

Further, Orton obviously doesn't have to do much to win in Chicago. If he doesn't turn the ball over and make stupid mistakes, that defense will win the games for him. Orton's stats clearly show it. 21 QBs with at least 30 attempts have better stats than Orton right now. He's thrown for 291 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT, in 2 GAMES. Hardly stellar. I'm not saying he's bad, but the reason that CHI has more wins than we do is because they have an awesome defense and doesn't rely on Orton to win games for them. As long as Orton plays steady all year the Bears will be respectable.
Again, I just think its unfair to compare Orton's result against Favre's result because different circumstances came into play in both games. Favre has to win games because we don't have the defense to do it for him.

So to answer your question, Orton and the Bears beat the Lions because they have a stellar defense and Orton did not make mistakes.

You are correct. Orton only has to avoid those costly rookie mistakes and learn with each passing week. They are not asking him to be Joe Montana, John Elway or Brett Favre. A great D and a solid running game can take you far.
The Packers are still waiting for Favre to save the day and he can no longer do it by himself.

 

[IPBprez]

PHIL is correct, as are just about every other Poster here....

ORR - I never said Orton was comparable to Favre - they are NOT equals...
For someone who keeps threatening others to not put words in the mouths of others.. you certainly do a lot of it yourself. Pot calling the kettle black here...?

The frustration level, hopefully, will even itself out with this weekend's game against Tampa Bay. I'm a guy who's Packer Mug is always half-full... never half-empty... Sure, I get frustrated, but let's remember one thing here... If I was that anti-Packers... why would I waste my weekends running a Club of over 400 Cheeseheads... anyone? Trust me.. it's not wasted weekends around here at Lambeau Midwest... ever!

You say it's apples to oranges? Fine, that's your viewpoint and it's a free country... I simply see it in another light.. As do others who see it yet again on another different level... If we were all the same in here - You get maybe one post a day and that's all..

Oh, and one other thing... ORR..... welcome aboard on the HBO list... good luck with that..

Guys - what I like about PackerForum is it was a long time in coming...
There's other Packer Forum boards out there... but not like this one... Agreed?
There's the PackersNews, FTO, JSonline... etc... PackerChatters (to me) is the only real competition this Forum Board has today... Course, I don't waste too much time on the others.. but if all you ever see is personal backstabbing, then it's not a football discussion you're having.. now is it...? Course not! For the most part, just about everyone here has been able to achieve a higher level of membership here because they've remembered to keep it about the subject thread, instead of using high school maturity level putdowns.. and that, my friends, is of the utmost importance for any GOOD Forum Board to succeed much less survive and be remembered as noteworthy.

IMHO - this thread has worn itself out... and we've pretty much covered every base of opinion there can be... to this point.

For me? I'm focusing on this next game to see if the Players can find themselves.. especially the D. They need it more than we do - they're the ones out there being the centers of attention. Hopefully, with a little luck... we'll be 1-2 next Monday.

 

[dhpackr]

DHpacker...yes, I participated in athletics...I've had firey coaches, even keeled coaches, and in betweeners and have seen the whole spectrum of success resulting from all approaches.

As for Sherman losing his team, or them not respecting him? I see where you're coming from, but keep in mind that we said that after last year's 1-4 start, and a team that does not respect their coach would not turn around like the Packers of last year did. This is a new year, however, so we'll see if the team respects him w/ how they respond.

i guess as a packer fan i just have to realize there was only one reggie white and Leroy butler. i just am not ready to give up the winning tradition i have enjoyed for the last decade. so, as a packer fan, i hope you are right and sherman turns the team around. he has to, b/c i don't no how long fans will tolerate losing seasons. i blame sherman for poorly coached, undisciplined teams. i question his play calling back against philly, when he didn't go for it on 4th and 1 in the playoffs(amahn green was avg. like 6 yrds a carry). as well as his personelll choices in previous drafts.

so, fellow packerbacker, i have been a critic of mike sherman for some time, but hope he does well, b/c i backthepack!

 

[ORRELSE]

PHIL is correct, as are just about every other Poster here....

ORR - I never said Orton was comparable to Favre - they are NOT equals...
For someone who keeps threatening others to not put words in the mouths of others.. you certainly do a lot of it yourself. Pot calling the kettle black here...?

You DID compare Favre and Orton, go back and read it.
And BTW, find another thread where I threatened that. You've got me confused with someone else.

You say it's apples to oranges? Fine, that's your viewpoint and it's a free country... I simply see it in another light.. As do others who see it yet again on another different level... If we were all the same in here - You get maybe one post a day and that's all...

All I'm saying is that it is unfair to compare Notre Dame and Penn State teams of the late 90s against the teams of the past 4 years. Too many variables to get an accurate assessment. That is why I called it apples and oranges. Whether Drew Brees couldn't beat ND or PSU is irrelevant to the fact that Orton may have. They were separate teams with separate coaches or styles or variables. I just think it is an unfair comparison.

 

[CaliforniaCheez]

Some day there will be a thread "Bring back Sherman-He's far better than this guy."

If the Packers go 16-0 and win the Superbowl there will be a person saying it could have been done better. More points scored, fewer allowed, a dropped pass, a missed tackle etc.

Striving to be better is part of human nature and why even simple things like men's razors are now up to 4 blades instead of one.

I understand people who want better. Finding better is a difficult process.
Be careful how you phrase your concerns and methodologies.

 

[GBnative]

I agree with CalCheez, it will be much more likely the next coach is a step down rather than than a step up. The Sherman era reminds me a lot of the Dan Devine era. There was the very successful years (Lombardi/Holgrem), replaced by the defensive crony (Bengston/Rhodes) and then the outsider who had some modest success but was inexplicably strongly disliked by many of the fans (Devine/Sherman). We all know how things went after Devine, lets hope the similarities end here.

 

[P@ck66]

"Four blades Cheez..?"

Man..I thought there were only three..!!

(I must get out more...)

But what do I know..i've been branded "mentally ill"..by another poster...

It's tough suffering through five seasons with a coach you never believed in in the first place...and I think you are right RP..I think Sherman would have been better as an assistant coach or OC...but not running the whole shebang...

HEy man..I just want the PAckers to win, and for Brett Favre to go out on top...

Is that so wrong....?

 

[IPBprez]

Hey 66 (should we call ya Nitschke?) - How about we root for the whole team and make Favre line up with the rest of 'em...?