1st offical fire Sherman thread of the regular season.

[ORRELSE]

2) How fired up does Belichek usually look on the sideline?

3) This motivational aspect of MS' position irks me. At some pt. we need to start blaming the players. They're the ones who "love this game so much that they'd play for free." Does MS really have to come up w/ a Detroit Lions speech every week (and wouldn't that lose its effectiveness if he did so?). Does he need to promise rice crispy squares and juice boxes after every win?!? C'mon. It was the home opener, the Pack were just blown out, which should be enough motivation for the team, then to top it off, MS did a lot w/ Reggie White to inspire the team...at some point we need to hold the players responsible for their desire.

THANK YOU musccy.
Very well said. Hate to do a short one-liner post but you hit every point exactly how I feel as well.

It ain't ALL Sherman's fault, people.

 

[P@ck66]

musscy said:

"This motivational aspect of MS' position irks me. At some pt. we need to start blaming the players. They're the ones who "love this game so much that they'd play for free." Does MS really have to come up w/ a Detroit Lions speech every week...at some point we need to hold the players responsible for their desire."

Sorry Musscy, ORELSE..and anyone else who doesn't agree...

But FOOTBALL IS A GAME OF MOTIVATION AND DESIRE....

People say that Bellichek doesn't get fired up on the side-lines and he doesn't...but ALL of his players believe in his system and are of "one-mind"...they are drinking the Bellichek kool-aid...and it shows...they all play as a "team"...make few mistakes...and play with intensity and intelligence...so somewhere along the line..either in practice or wherever...Bellichek is MOTIVATING his players to play well...

AND YOU WILL FIND THIS TO BE TRUE FOR ANY TEAM THAT IS GOOD ON ONE SIDE OR BOTH SIDES OF THE FOOTBALL...

(for example: teams that appear motivated...the Ravens defense, the colts offense, the steelers, the bucs, the eagles..dallas..etc..etc..)

Of course, talent factors into this too...but talent without proper motivation will win precious few football games...

I'm surprised that any fan of the Packer's doesn't know this because they had the greatest motivator of men and the greatest football coach in Vincent T. Lombardi....

And Sherman isn't even close, my friend...

 

[Zero2Cool]

THANK YOU musccy.
Very well said. Hate to do a short one-liner post but you hit every point exactly how I feel as well.

It ain't ALL Sherman's fault, people.

I agree it's not all Sherman's fault. I wanna like the guy because he's had good records. I mean first home loss's in the playoff and now first ever loss to dilfer at home and first ever loss to the browns? I know records are made to be broken but dangit whys o many negative ones under his regime?

I really hope we can get this ship turned around. I think Sherman can do it and I hope he does. But it sucks having a sinking ship each season and having to get yourself out of a whole jus to fizzle out inthe playoffs year in year out.

Didn't Sherman bring in most of the Packers roster? So he's more to blame for his choices although yes that is a moot point since he's been removed from that role. But he did chose most of these "players".

 

[jdlax]

./

 

[digsthepack]

And Daunte Culpepper puts up big numbers...but in the end, he is nothing more than a physically talented QB who does not grasp what defenses are trying to do to him.

Sherman has a great record...but to a great extent, it was built on the back of Favre in a very weak division over the years.

Take away Moss, Culpepper is exposed. Take away Favre's ability to win it on his own (which he has not had for a few years now) and Sherman is exposed for what he is.

Bottom line, this team continues to show up not ready to play on Sundays. Yes, players have to make plays, but even our stars are not doing it now. Seems they are defeated before they set foot on the field.

 

[dhpackr]

dhpackr...

1) Sherman was fired for his GM performance, you're bringing up moot pts.

2) How fired up does Belichek usually look on the sideline?

3) This motivational aspect of MS' position irks me. At some pt. we need to start blaming the players. They're the ones who "love this game so much that they'd play for free." Does MS really have to come up w/ a Detroit Lions speech every week (and wouldn't that lose its effectiveness if he did so?). Does he need to promise rice crispy squares and juice boxes after every win?!? C'mon. It was the home opener, the Pack were just blown out, which should be enough motivation for the team, then to top it off, MS did a lot w/ Reggie White to inspire the team...at some point we need to hold the players responsible for their desire.

who drafted these players?
who put roman on the feild instead of little?
no pal, what MS needs to do is draft quality players. what do you mean that its a moot point. lol. look at the players we are stuck with. oh-yeah, add mike makenzie to the mix

so think of makenzie and ganble at cb, morgan and barnett at LBer, chambers and walker at WRer. sorry, but MS just can't motivate his players. and why compare sherman to a guy who has won the last two SuperBowls. are you kidding me!

 

[dhpackr]

THANK YOU musccy.
Very well said. Hate to do a short one-liner post but you hit every point exactly how I feel as well.

It ain't ALL Sherman's fault, people.

I agree it's not all Sherman's fault. I wanna like the guy because he's had good records. I mean first home loss's in the playoff and now first ever loss to dilfer at home and first ever loss to the browns? I know records are made to be broken but dangit whys o many negative ones under his regime?

I really hope we can get this ship turned around. I think Sherman can do it and I hope he does. But it sucks having a sinking ship each season and having to get yourself out of a whole jus to fizzle out inthe playoffs year in year out.

Didn't Sherman bring in most of the Packers roster? So he's more to blame for his choices although yes that is a moot point since he's been removed from that role. But he did chose most of these "players".

that's what i'm saying. these are sherman's players, the coach needs to be responsible for his players

 

[Zero2Cool]

no pal, what MS needs to do is draft quality players. what do you mean that its a moot point. lol. look at the players we are stuck with. oh-yeah, add mike makenzie to the mix

Moot because Sherman doesn't do the drafting anylonger.

 

[HatestheEagles084]

no pal, what MS needs to do is draft quality players. what do you mean that its a moot point. lol. look at the players we are stuck with. oh-yeah, add mike makenzie to the mix

Moot because Sherman doesn't do the drafting anylonger.

i liked TT's philosophy this April...quantity over quality, trade down, get extra picks...bring guys like Hawkins, Campbell, Whitticker into the franchise, guys who didn't have the most hype coming out of college but still could turn out to be quality NFL'ers there's not thatmuch quality 1st-3rd year talent on this team and thompson is trying to plug that hole as quick as he can...i'd expect no less from someone who learned under ron wolf

 

[dhpackr]

no pal, what MS needs to do is draft quality players. what do you mean that its a moot point. lol. look at the players we are stuck with. oh-yeah, add mike makenzie to the mix

Moot because Sherman doesn't do the drafting anylonger.

but sherman's players make up the roster

 

[paxvogel]

No Orrelse, Mike Sherman is not doing all those things. The players he drafted or traded for or is coaching did. And it is becoming a pattern.

 

[Zero2Cool]

no pal, what MS needs to do is draft quality players. what do you mean that its a moot point. lol. look at the players we are stuck with. oh-yeah, add mike makenzie to the mix

Moot because Sherman doesn't do the drafting anylonger.

but sherman's players make up the roster

That's what I said!! [marq=up]:roll:[/marq]

 

[HatestheEagles084]

No Orrelse, Mike Sherman is not doing all those things. The players he drafted or traded for or is coaching did. And it is becoming a pattern.

in my eyes, mike sherman the GM was FIRED...he was relieved of duties cause he sucked at that, youre beating a dead horse.

he's not too hot at head coaching duties too, i hope another PATTERN follows with mike sherman here if you catch my drift

 

[IndiPack]

"FOOTBALL IS A GAME OF MOTIVATION AND DESIRE...."

GB's made a habit of starting off slowly under Sherm's tenure.
We'll kick some ****, shortly.
Anybody watch Favre's post game press question and answer session? Gruden isn't gonna be smiling come next monday.

 

[HatestheEagles084]

We'll kick some ****, shortly.

thats great...lets lose the first four games and decide to play, the thing is we're not good enough to just "flip the switch" and go on a huge winning streak resulting in a .500 season.

Im not saying we cant be above .500, but it's gotta start with a win next week

 

[IndiPack]

Hang tight, DePack. Greenbay is gonna play harder this week.

 

[musccy]

who drafted these players?
who put roman on the feild instead of little?
no pal, what MS needs to do is draft quality players. what do you mean that its a moot point. lol. look at the players we are stuck with. oh-yeah, add mike makenzie to the mix

so think of makenzie and ganble at cb, morgan and barnett at LBer, chambers and walker at WRer. sorry, but MS just can't motivate his players. and why compare sherman to a guy who has won the last two SuperBowls. are you kidding me!

"The Packers COULD have had Gamble"...these arguments are unfair because they never account for the hyped up players that Sherman neglected to draft...the Maurice Claretts (or whoever) that Sherman insightfully saw through. Besided, selective hindsight will always be 20-20.

But again, he was relieved of his GM duties, so the Packer organization agrees w/ you, and there's little point in questioning Sherman's GM duties when critiquing him as a coach now.

and YES, I will compare Sherman to Belichek...if you want to attribute cheerleading to successful motivation, then explain to me how the Pats are never accused of lacking motivation in spite of their coach being an even keeled personality while on the sidelines?

 

[dhpackr]

]

"The Packers COULD have had Gamble"...these arguments are unfair because they never account for the hyped up players that Sherman neglected to draft...the Maurice Claretts (or whoever) that Sherman insightfully saw through. Besided, selective hindsight will always be 20-20.

But again, he was relieved of his GM duties, so the Packer organization agrees w/ you, and there's little point in questioning Sherman's GM duties when critiquing him as a coach now.

and YES, I will compare Sherman to Belichek...if you want to attribute cheerleading to successful motivation, then explain to me how the Pats are never accused of lacking motivation in spite of their coach being an even keeled personality while on the sidelines?

comparing belicheck to sherman is like comparing freddie mitchell to jerry rice in his prime. if you can't see the difference in the two coaches, its useless to discuss this any further.
peace out,
go packers

 

[IPBprez]

I don't care what Sherman could have done... I mean really......!
Look at it this way, depending on how their Season meters out.. Check out the game that Kyle Orton just had.. and I posted everywhere that the Packers should have drafted him...

I think the real reason for the start of this thread is this ----

Sherman has demonstrated a trend which started in 2002, or at least showed evidence of it back then when we lost the Home Opener to Minnesota and really shouldn't have... After that, the next year, We got lucky on MNF against the Panthers because no one in the NFL would have been prepped for the SLOWik blitz scheme, there was no film to review yet... But, immediately after that, look what happened out in Arizona in front of over 33,000 Cheeseheads... and so on and so on....

So, YES.... there is a trend... a habit, if you will.... of starting the Season blind.. of not reviewing opponents game film so as to understand the nature of the other Coaches and what they have as habits..

You can tell good Coaches and their ability to play a good Chess game... i.e - I remeind everyone of how Belicheck "let" Shanahan have that Safety for two points and immediately drove down the field (now with plenty of time to spare) and scored the winning TD.. Shanahan was highly embarrassed.. trust me.

So what is it that Sherman is failing to realize and understand in Coach preparation?

Point being.. is this ---

Does Sherman prep and in what ways would that be? Good question!

Is Sherman a hard enough Coach on these Players?
(I would vote a resounding NO.. throwing temper tantrums which last all of 45 seconds isn't getting anyone's fear scale to rise...)

Are Sherman's practices all week long... too soft?
(One wonders... they look winded more often than not. And just now, we're hearing that screw-ups have started to earn laps around the Frozen Tundra.. Was he reading this Forum? Could be, we mentioned it right here...)

Does Mike Sherman listen to his Assistants?
(Last year in many games, at the last minute, he would change his game plan and no one would be ready because of it)

My Fav - Is Sherman lying about who it is that actually calls the plays during the game?
(I vote YES on this one - it smells too much like what we saw in AZ in 2003 and that was ALL ROSSLEY...)

Opinions? Comments?

 

[Zero2Cool]

Maybe Sherman called the plays all the times before and after that heart attack Sherman let rossley make the play calling and now this season its back to Sherman????

 

[ORRELSE]

Check out the game that Kyle Orton just had.. and I posted everywhere that the Packers should have drafted him...

INSTEAD of Rodgers? :roll:

 

[IPBprez]

ORRELSE - I would have to see some of the college game footage of Rodgers.... and then base a comment on it pending what I got to see with Kyle while he was here at Purdue... They both played in two different segments of College football and neither got to play each other... So, 1) Rodgers had harder Schools to contend with? 2)Orton beat both Penn State and Notre Dame handily... which even Drew Brees couldn't do.. and the Purdue Coach (Joe Tiller) is highly respected all across the College front... Had it not been for that fluke play that up-ended Kyle against the Badgers... even WI would have been reeling...

But, so far.. Kyle was able to do something aginst the very same Team (Detroit) that the Packers couldn't... and that's WIN.

So, what's the answer? Kyle Orton is better than Brett Favre? I would say hardly... But, he is "Brett Favre-like" and very very gutsy in his attitude behind the O-Line...

So, tell us.... why were the Bears able to beat a Team that practically destroyed the Packers... with a rookie QB?

 

[musccy]

comparing belicheck to sherman is like comparing freddie mitchell to jerry rice in his prime. if you can't see the difference in the two coaches, its useless to discuss this any further.
peace out,
go packers

You're missing my point...I'm comparing the way they conduct themselves on the field and in public. A lot of ppl were flustered yesterday because MS was boring in his press conference, then they attribute that to his inability to motivate. My point is that you don't have to be some firey cheerleader to motivate some one, case in point Belichek.

 

[Zero2Cool]

So, tell us.... why were the Bears able to beat a Team that practically destroyed the Packers... with a rookie QB?

I'm not aiming to be a jerk here, but if any of us knew that answer that would be valid enough for you, we'd be busy on Sundays. :wink: So what I'm saying is thats kind of an unfair question although I believe the answer has little to do with the QB and lies more on the lines of how the Bears D kept Joey on his ***.

 

[ORRELSE]

ORRELSE - I would have to see some of the college game footage of Rodgers.... and then base a comment on it pending what I got to see with Kyle while he was here at Purdue... They both played in two different segments of College football and neither got to play each other... So, 1) Rodgers had harder Schools to contend with? 2)Orton beat both Penn State and Notre Dame handily... which even Drew Brees couldn't do.. and the Purdue Coach (Joe Tiller) is highly respected all across the College front... Had it not been for that fluke play that up-ended Kyle against the Badgers... even WI would have been reeling...

But, so far.. Kyle was able to do something aginst the very same Team (Detroit) that the Packers couldn't... and that's WIN.

So, what's the answer? Kyle Orton is better than Brett Favre? I would say hardly... But, he is "Brett Favre-like" and very very gutsy in his attitude behind the O-Line...

So, tell us.... why were the Bears able to beat a Team that practically destroyed the Packers... with a rookie QB?

IBPrez, I respect pretty much all of what you say in your posts, but you are out to lunch right here.

You'd be the same guy castigating TT for passing on Rodgers had we taken Nick Collins first, which we would have done if Rodgers was not sitting there. That was a no-brainer, wasn't it? And I'll say it again, Nick Collins was the FIRST choice on the Packers board.

Comparing a clearly worse Penn State state team right now than in years past, and an underachieving Tryone Willingham Notre Dame team to Notre Dame teams of the past that Brees played against is unfair. Apples and oranges.

Further, Orton obviously doesn't have to do much to win in Chicago. If he doesn't turn the ball over and make stupid mistakes, that defense will win the games for him. Orton's stats clearly show it. 21 QBs with at least 30 attempts have better stats than Orton right now. He's thrown for 291 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT, in 2 GAMES. Hardly stellar. I'm not saying he's bad, but the reason that CHI has more wins than we do is because they have an awesome defense and doesn't rely on Orton to win games for them. As long as Orton plays steady all year the Bears will be respectable.
Again, I just think its unfair to compare Orton's result against Favre's result because different circumstances came into play in both games. Favre has to win games because we don't have the defense to do it for him.

So to answer your question, Orton and the Bears beat the Lions because they have a stellar defense and Orton did not make mistakes.

Did the Packers have either of that in the loss to DET?