With the 23rd pick the Packers select...

[Mack_20]

My very first post.....I will preface this by saying I believe TT will trade the pick, and it wouldn't make me choke on my beer to see us go up, but my gut tells me he will likely try to go down and get more picks, just because this draft is so deep. That being said, if we do pick at #23 and Ryan Matthews is on the board I can't see TT passing him up, and I would be on cloud nine if we got him. Those speedy OLB's make sense to me too, but all these so called "experts" that keep saying we will take an OT, should look for another line of work. TT pretty much said today at his news conference that the top tier tackles are few and go early, and he "won't reach on player". I am also a subscriber to the Gainther trade theory, especially if we trade down and have some extra picks.
Nice to be on board. GO PACK GO!

I agree with Ryan Matthews, I think he is going to be a very good back in the league.. I hope we don't end up going with a corner, I'd be ok with Taylor Mays because I'm a fan of his, but an OT would be great there too.

 

[favrebacker4life]

Sorry but I don't see TT using his 1st round pick on a player with major character issues. I know Raji had character concerns but they were cleared before he was drafted by the Packers.

 

[NYPacker]

Ryan Matthews is possibly the best RB in this draft but IMO he's not the type of RB that we're looking for. He runs hard, makes a single cut a likes to run into traffic. I'd like to have someone who's a bit more elusive and has some speed.

 

[Mel-MinAlum]

FYI here are the official combine times. How much faster do you want him to be?
1. Jahvid Best, Cal (5-10, 199): 4.35
2. C.J. Spiller, Clemson (5-11, 196): 4.37
3. Ben Tate, Auburn (5-10, 220): 4.43
4. Ryan Mathews, Fresno State (5-11, 218): 4.45
5. Joe McKnight, USC (5-11, 198): 4.47
6. Montario Hardesty, Tennessee (5-11, 225): 4.49
7. James Starks, University of Buffalo (6-2, 218): 4.50
8. Lonyae Miller, Fresno St (5-11, 221): 4.53
9. Shawnbrey McNeal, SMU (5-9, 194)
10. Dexter McCluster, Mississippi (5-9, 172): 4.58

 

[Jess]

Ryan Matthews is too similar to Ryan Grant. We need change of pace. Someone quick as lightning that's explosive on every play. If we're taking a back, I want Jahvid Best or Dexter McCluster.

 

[PackersRS]

My very first post.....I will preface this by saying I believe TT will trade the pick, and it wouldn't make me choke on my beer to see us go up, but my gut tells me he will likely try to go down and get more picks, just because this draft is so deep. That being said, if we do pick at #23 and Ryan Matthews is on the board I can't see TT passing him up, and I would be on cloud nine if we got him. Those speedy OLB's make sense to me too, but all these so called "experts" that keep saying we will take an OT, should look for another line of work. TT pretty much said today at his news conference that the top tier tackles are few and go early, and he "won't reach on player". I am also a subscriber to the Gainther trade theory, especially if we trade down and have some extra picks.
Nice to be on board. GO PACK GO!

Welcome to the forum!

Now, at least half of what you hear about prospects and intentions and needs from team's GMs and such are smokescreens.

Specially with TT.

So when he says he's "happy with his OL" you shouldn't read much into it.

When he says he "won't reach for a player", he's telling the truth. But to him, Harrell wasn't a reach. And neither was CM3. So chances are his board is VERY different from what's out there...

What we can assume from his past drafts is that he usually takes a player with the first pick to replace a future loss.

Rodgers (Favre), Hawk (Diggs), Harrell (Corey Williams), Raji (Pickett) and CM3 (Kampman). You can even squeeze in Nelson for Driver.

Brohm is the exception, but he wasn't a 1st round pick, and to TT he was an incredible value.

That leads to very little conclusion. We have Harris on his last legs, Driver on his last legs, Clifton and Tauscher on their last legs, Jenkins being a future FA, Bigby being a future FA...

From that, CB, LT, DE and S are options... But he could still (WHAT! I know...) not be sure about Driver's replacement, and he could still take a player he feels is an incredible value...

My money is on CB or LT, though.

Pass rush IMHO is a position we should adress early, but thinking as TT, he has a couple of rookies that performed well in CM3 and Brad Jones, and still has a young guy he moved up for in Jeremy Thompson...

 

[PackersRS]

FYI here are the official combine times. How much faster do you want him to be?
1. Jahvid Best, Cal (5-10, 199): 4.35
2. C.J. Spiller, Clemson (5-11, 196): 4.37
3. Ben Tate, Auburn (5-10, 220): 4.43
4. Ryan Mathews, Fresno State (5-11, 218): 4.45
5. Joe McKnight, USC (5-11, 198): 4.47
6. Montario Hardesty, Tennessee (5-11, 225): 4.49
7. James Starks, University of Buffalo (6-2, 218): 4.50
8. Lonyae Miller, Fresno St (5-11, 221): 4.53
9. Shawnbrey McNeal, SMU (5-9, 194)
10. Dexter McCluster, Mississippi (5-9, 172): 4.58

40 times don't show much. But still, the difference between 4.30's and 4.40's is big...

Plus, how many big runs did you see him break? Spiller, Best and McCluster have lots to show. Matthews looks slower on tape than them...

I think he's the most solid all around back in the draft. But he's not a better prospect than Moreno or Wells were, IMHO.

 

[Mel-MinAlum]

I'll take Best, but not at 23. BPA is what we've been raised on, and I believe Mathews is better.....again I also don't think we will be picking at 23 and I honestly think we will end up with Best, Mcluster, or McKnight(sp?). I do think in the long run, Mathews is as good as Spiller and better than Best or the rest..actually, IMO he is the best all around when you consider blitz pickups and 3rd down receptions, and with Grant as a tutor we would be lucky to have him. The thread was who to pick at 23....if we get Best in the early 2nd due to trade, I'm just as happy. Same goes for Mcluster or McKnight in the 3rd.

 

[Mel-MinAlum]

PackerRS etal....If memory serves Mathews had 3 TDs over 60yds vs Boise State, who most folks consider one of the best teams in the country last year. I want to reiterate, I don't believe we will keep #23 and I think a OLB or CB would be fine with me if we keep it. My point is BPA at that spot is gonna be tough to beat him if he's there.

 

[PackersRS]

PackerRS etal....If memory serves Mathews had 3 TDs over 60yds vs Boise State, who most folks consider one of the best teams in the country last year. I want to reiterate, I don't believe we will keep #23 and I think a OLB or CB would be fine with me if we keep it. My point is BPA at that spot is gonna be tough to beat him if he's there.

I'm just not so sold on Matthews as you are... Like I said, I don't think he's a better prospect than Moreno or Wells. I don't think he's a much better player than Grant, actually.

Some people like him a lot, some like him less. I didn't see anybody put him as a top-15 pick yet, though. And I have no idea of how TT evaluates him.

What I do know is that TT and MM are very high on Grant, and I believe MM is also very high on Brandon Jackson. So that may push him down in TT's board, even if he thinks about Matthews as highly as you do...

But my point was more about the LT pick. You can't disconsider it, based on what I said previously... Who's to say Charles Brown or Roger Saffold aren't very high on TT's board? Like I said before, CM3 was reportedly #15 on his board, though on most people's in early April he wasn't even a 1st rounder...

 

[NYPacker]

I'm just not so sold on Matthews as you are... Like I said, I don't think he's a better prospect than Moreno or Wells. I don't think he's a much better player than Grant, actually.

Some people like him a lot, some like him less. I didn't see anybody put him as a top-15 pick yet, though. And I have no idea of how TT evaluates him.

What I do know is that TT and MM are very high on Grant, and I believe MM is also very high on Brandon Jackson. So that may push him down in TT's board, even if he thinks about Matthews as highly as you do...

But my point was more about the LT pick. You can't disconsider it, based on what I said previously... Who's to say Charles Brown or Roger Saffold aren't very high on TT's board? Like I said before, CM3 was reportedly #15 on his board, though on most people's in early April he wasn't even a 1st rounder...

I agree RS both about the Matthews and the LT position. Matthews is a solid RB who has "everything" :speed, trucking, elusiveness, blocking, receiving. However Matthews is about even in all of these aspects, meaning he doesn't excel in one category over the other. Green Bay on the other hand needs a running back who is excellent in receiving, elusiveness and speed more than any of the other characteristics which is why I really like Best or Spiller. I'm fine with Spiller at 23 but like Mel-MinAlum said, Best would be a HUGE reach at 23.

About the LT position, TT did say in his press conf. yesterday that he wouldn't "reach for a LT" with the 23 pick. Well sorta.... that's what he said because you know how TT is. I'm actually more concerned on what his definition of "reach" is. If Brown or Saffold is there, does he consider themselves worthy of pick 23 or will he settle for another player. OR if he does feel that they're reaches will he trade down from 23 and take one of those players later on?

 

[PackersRS]

I agree RS both about the Matthews and the LT position. Matthews is a solid RB who has "everything" :speed, trucking, elusiveness, blocking, receiving. However Matthews is about even in all of these aspects, meaning he doesn't excel in one category over the other. Green Bay on the other hand needs a running back who is excellent in receiving, elusiveness and speed more than any of the other characteristics which is why I really like Best or Spiller. I'm fine with Spiller at 23 but like Mel-MinAlum said, Best would be a HUGE reach at 23.

About the LT position, TT did say in his press conf. yesterday that he wouldn't "reach for a LT" with the 23 pick. Well sorta.... that's what he said because you know how TT is. I'm actually more concerned on what his definition of "reach" is. If Brown or Saffold is there, does he consider themselves worthy of pick 23 or will he settle for another player. OR if he does feel that they're reaches will he trade down from 23 and take one of those players later on?

I still don't understand why Best would be a reach. As far as playing goes, if he's not actually ABOVE Spiller, he's even. I think he is as fast as him (film, and the 40 time) and he's better running between the tackles.

But is it injury? I know he missed a lot of time last year, but did he have another injury before, to be characterized as injury prone?

 

[claybillings]

Welcome to the forum!

Now, at least half of what you hear about prospects and intentions and needs from team's GMs and such are smokescreens.

Specially with TT.

So when he says he's "happy with his OL" you shouldn't read much into it.

When he says he "won't reach for a player", he's telling the truth. But to him, Harrell wasn't a reach. And neither was CM3. So chances are his board is VERY different from what's out there...

What we can assume from his past drafts is that he usually takes a player with the first pick to replace a future loss.

Rodgers (Favre), Hawk (Diggs), Harrell (Corey Williams), Raji (Pickett) and CM3 (Kampman). You can even squeeze in Nelson for Driver.

Brohm is the exception, but he wasn't a 1st round pick, and to TT he was an incredible value.

That leads to very little conclusion. We have Harris on his last legs, Driver on his last legs, Clifton and Tauscher on their last legs, Jenkins being a future FA, Bigby being a future FA...

From that, CB, LT, DE and S are options... But he could still (WHAT! I know...) not be sure about Driver's replacement, and he could still take a player he feels is an incredible value...

My money is on CB or LT, though.

Pass rush IMHO is a position we should adress early, but thinking as TT, he has a couple of rookies that performed well in CM3 and Brad Jones, and still has a young guy he moved up for in Jeremy Thompson...

You make a bunch of great points here. Everything leading up to the draft is basically a small-lie. No one wants to tip their hand. And TT is about as close to the vest as any GM in the league. None of us knows what is going on in that head of his, good or bad.

I honestly just hope that we take a CB or LT as well. If Kyle Wilson is there for us, I don't see how we don't take him. Same goes for a LT that possibly fell, although I see that as an unlikely scenario. I hope we don't reach for a lower tier tackle in round 1 like Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell.

If we took a pass-rushing linebacker I wouldn't be too upset, it'll probably be good for us. Because even though CM3 is amazing, and Brad Jones has a lot of talent and potential, they cannot play the whole game out there, we need a high-potential backup who goes in and makes plays.

I'm also going to say this. if Will Weatherspoon is on the board at 23, I wouldn't mind taking him, and playing him as a situational inside-outside linebacker and bring him along slowly. And he can either be the eventual successor to AJ Hawk or beat out Brad Jones in camp. Either way it's a win-win.

 

[NYPacker]

I still don't understand why Best would be a reach. As far as playing goes, if he's not actually ABOVE Spiller, he's even. I think he is as fast as him (film, and the 40 time) and he's better running between the tackles.

But is it injury? I know he missed a lot of time last year, but did he have another injury before, to be characterized as injury prone?

Injuries are keeping Best from being considered a first round talent. Otherwise like you said he would be a 1st rounder hands down. His injuries don't just include the spinal contusion he suffered this season but extends over the numerous leg and neck injuries he sustained since his freshman year. Also he's pretty frail kinda like how Brian Westbrook is right now, one hit and he's down and out. Enjoy:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCO0sRPJEZ8]YouTube - Maryland Cal hit[/ame]

You make a bunch of great points here. Everything leading up to the draft is basically a small-lie. No one wants to tip their hand. And TT is about as close to the vest as any GM in the league. None of us knows what is going on in that head of his, good or bad.

I honestly just hope that we take a CB or LT as well. If Kyle Wilson is there for us, I don't see how we don't take him. Same goes for a LT that possibly fell, although I see that as an unlikely scenario. I hope we don't reach for a lower tier tackle in round 1 like Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell.

If we took a pass-rushing linebacker I wouldn't be too upset, it'll probably be good for us. Because even though CM3 is amazing, and Brad Jones has a lot of talent and potential, they cannot play the whole game out there, we need a high-potential backup who goes in and makes plays.

I'm also going to say this. if Will Weatherspoon is on the board at 23, I wouldn't mind taking him, and playing him as a situational inside-outside linebacker and bring him along slowly. And he can either be the eventual successor to AJ Hawk or beat out Brad Jones in camp. Either way it's a win-win.

It's Sean Weatherspoon, but I agree he's probably one of he most ready players coming out of this draft. But honestly I feel he's much better suited for a 4-3. He's played in all three 4-3 LB spots and knows that defense in and out. Converting him to a 3-4 player hurts his progress in the NFL. I do agree with you that getting a pass rush specialist would be a great idea. You're right in that Jones and Matthews can't do it all by themselves. I also think that if we get an extra LB it will allow Capers to use the psycho package some more. It would be awesome to see Matthews, Jones and the rookie all rushing the passer at the same time.

 

[PackersRS]

You make a bunch of great points here. Everything leading up to the draft is basically a small-lie. No one wants to tip their hand. And TT is about as close to the vest as any GM in the league. None of us knows what is going on in that head of his, good or bad.

I honestly just hope that we take a CB or LT as well. If Kyle Wilson is there for us, I don't see how we don't take him. Same goes for a LT that possibly fell, although I see that as an unlikely scenario. I hope we don't reach for a lower tier tackle in round 1 like Charles Brown or Bruce Campbell.

If we took a pass-rushing linebacker I wouldn't be too upset, it'll probably be good for us. Because even though CM3 is amazing, and Brad Jones has a lot of talent and potential, they cannot play the whole game out there, we need a high-potential backup who goes in and makes plays.

I'm also going to say this. if Will Weatherspoon is on the board at 23, I wouldn't mind taking him, and playing him as a situational inside-outside linebacker and bring him along slowly. And he can either be the eventual successor to AJ Hawk or beat out Brad Jones in camp. Either way it's a win-win.

The problem with Kyle Wilson is that he's 5-10, and TT never got a CB shorter than 5-11...

Injuries are keeping Best from being considered a first round talent. Otherwise like you said he would be a 1st rounder hands down. His injuries don't just include the spinal contusion he suffered this season but extends over the numerous leg and neck injuries he sustained since his freshman year. Also he's pretty frail kinda like how Brian Westbrook is right now, one hit and he's down and out. Enjoy:

YouTube - Maryland Cal hit



It's Sean Weatherspoon, but I agree he's probably one of he most ready players coming out of this draft. But honestly I feel he's much better suited for a 4-3. He's played in all three 4-3 LB spots and knows that defense in and out. Converting him to a 3-4 player hurts his progress in the NFL. I do agree with you that getting a pass rush specialist would be a great idea. You're right in that Jones and Matthews can't do it all by themselves. I also think that if we get an extra LB it will allow Capers to use the psycho package some more. It would be awesome to see Matthews, Jones and the rookie all rushing the passer at the same time.

Hmn, I thought it was injury history his problem...

And I agree, Weatherspoon is a better fit to a 4-3. Though we don't know if he couldn't adapt to an ILB role. He has the right weith and height to do so (6'1, 240lbs)

 

[ivo610]

As far as running backs go cross anyone out that isnt a pass catcher. I think there are serious concerns with Best but some team could come away very happy in the second round.

Could Spiller still be there for us?

How do you guys feel about Gerhart? I mean generally and for the Packers.

 

[ivo610]

James Starks is a player I havent heard mentioned much but could see him become an NFL starter. One of those small school guys.

 

[PackersRS]

As far as running backs go cross anyone out that isnt a pass catcher. I think there are serious concerns with Best but some team could come away very happy in the second round.

Could Spiller still be there for us?

How do you guys feel about Gerhart? I mean generally and for the Packers.

I think Gerhard can play RB in the league, and be a damn good one. But for short yardage, we need OL instead of RB.

Wouldn't mind him, but he's not the best fit for us.

 

[supermancc0386]

Bryant is a great talent, and I'm not horribly opposed to drafting a WR, but I think if he fell to #23, Ted's phone would be ringing off the wall and he could swing a nice deal.

 

[PackersRS]

Bryant is a great talent, and I'm not horribly opposed to drafting a WR, but I think if he fell to #23, Ted's phone would be ringing off the wall and he could swing a nice deal.

Yeah, I see that too, but who are the WR needy teams, and what could they offer to move to the #23?

 

[Mack_20]

I like the idea of a trade, if somebody wanted to trade up for Bryant we could get some good value at the 23rd pick and pick up some more guys in a very deep draft. I wouldnt be upset if Bryant ended up with us, IMO he will be a very good reciever in the league.

I'm a Gerhart fan, but would rather see the Pack take a Jahvid Best type or McCluster that can do some work in our return game and be more than just a power back.

Also, I hope like hell if Ryan Matthews is sitting there at #23, TT pulls the trigger on him. He's my favorite back in this draft, and would love to see him on our squad.

No way Spiller falls to us.

 

[PackersRS]

But I don't believe, even with the supposed problems, that Bryant will be there.

I honestly believe Denver will pick him...

 

[Mack_20]

Yeah I don't see Bryant falling that far either, he's a top 5 talent.

 

[MelrosE]

First round, if Iupati is available, no doubt taking him. Otherwise I'd like to solidify our LT for the future with taking Charles Brown.

What do you guys think of Jahvid Best? I think he's tied with Spiller at the #1 RB spot, personally. If it were me, I'd have a hard time passing on him in the 2nd. I also think he'd fit our zone blocking scheme, and with his speed, would be a home run hitter every time he touched the ball, also a good receiver out of the backfield.
Then again, I'd really like to go with a CB particularly Patrick Robinson out of FSU. God knows Al and Charles are going to hold up and be healthy ALL season.

 

[PackersRS]

First round, if Iupati is available, no doubt taking him. Otherwise I'd like to solidify our LT for the future with taking Charles Brown.

What do you guys think of Jahvid Best? I think he's tied with Spiller at the #1 RB spot, personally. If it were me, I'd have a hard time passing on him in the 2nd. I also think he'd fit our zone blocking scheme, and with his speed, would be a home run hitter every time he touched the ball, also a good receiver out of the backfield.
Then again, I'd really like to go with a CB particularly Patrick Robinson out of FSU. God knows Al and Charles are going to hold up and be healthy ALL season.

I think Best and Spiller, as far as talent goes, are toe to toe. He was at one time the leading candidate for the Heisman trophy, if I'm not mistaken. But his injuries scare the expletive out of me. Do we want to go through another Harrell or Pat Lee? I wouldn't mind picking him even with the #23, though I believe RB is a luxury....