TT needs to go

[broguy]

I don't think Thompson has been better than most teams building through the draft over the last five seasons. Taking a look at the past several seasons as well as heading into the next offseason only using the draft to improve the team will result in the roster having some positions in desperate need of an upgrade.

At this point I can only judge base on what's in front of me and what he's done to date. To date he has been very successful building through the draft. If you're right, and that strategy gets us into trouble the next couple of seasons and he fails to upgrade with any free agent signings, then I absolutely agree that his standing with the team needs to be reevaluated. But that's just speculation, and until that happens, I think it's unfair to say that he needs to be let go (which is the point of this thread).

 

[RRyder]

I think you missed the point of the example.

Please explain then. I'm guessing you were shooting for the "TT won't move on from his mistakes" argument.

The correlation is TT has shown a willingness to make the tough choice no matter how unpopular.

 

[easyk83]

Because the vast majority of GMs simply haven't built as good of a team.

And those lesser GMs includes personnel men who aggressively ply the FA market. I suspect that if you looked at the 50 best free agent acquisitions over the last ten years that members of this forum would be surprised by how many times the Packers would be on that list. TT doesn't try FA often but he's been superbly successful when he has.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well people keep comparing them to NE who definitely does.

Well, the Patriots have had way more success with their franchise QB.

Raji has a ton of potential and they got him for relatively cheap on a show me/stay healthy 1 year deal. That was definitely a good deal IMO. Cobb has had a down year, but a lot of that is attributable to Nelson being out.

Who were the free agent nts much better than Raji? I honestly don't remember. I agree on Cobb but I think he produces much differently with jordy

It seems like no other teams were interested in Raji and he settled for another one-year deal with the Packers, so calling him one of the best free agents available is a huge stretch.

While I was in favor of re-signing Cobb it seems that we overpaid for him. I agree that losing Nelson hurt his production but I expect more out of a receiver paid like a #1 WR.

Can I point out some of the lucky breaks that came with their SB wins then? They're really not that far off from having just one win or even none in SBs if we get to change certain game changing plays

It wasn't me that started the what-if game. It's a fact the Patriots have been far more suucesful with their franchise QB.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Please explain then. I'm guessing you were shooting for the "TT won't move on from his mistakes" argument.

The correlation is TT has shown a willingness to make the tough choice no matter how unpopular.

Yes, sort of, but more so with money involved. The problem is, TT doesn't always realize they are mistakes.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

At this point I can only judge base on what's in front of me and what he's done to date. To date he has been very successful building through the draft. If you're right, and that strategy gets us into trouble the next couple of seasons and he fails to upgrade with any free agent signings, then I absolutely agree that his standing with the team needs to be reevaluated. But that's just speculation, and until that happens, I think it's unfair to say that he needs to be let go (which is the point of this thread).

I'm not convinced Thompson has been any better than most GMs drafting over the last five years though. In addition I wonder how good this team would be with an average QB, something that should be considered when evaluating a a GM.

 

[easyk83]

I don't think Thompson has been better than most teams building through the draft over the last five seasons. Taking a look at the past several seasons as well as heading into the next offseason only using the draft to improve the team will result in the roster having some positions in desperate need of an upgrade.

I think there's some truth to this last point. If you look at our best players, and solid to good players, too many of them were picked up prior to 2010 and earlier.

Clay Matthews 2009
Aaron Rodgers 2005
BJ Raji 2009
Josh Sitton 2008
TJ Lang 2010
Sam Shields 2010
James Jones drafted in 07, signed as FA this year
James Starks 2010
Morgan Burnett 2010
Brian Bulaga 2010
Jordy Nelson-2008

In contrast what great players have we picked up since 2011?

Randall Cobb is a good offensive weapon but he's mediocre at best as a primary receiving option. -2011

Davante Adams struggled with his increased role-2014

HHCD- looks like a solid to good safety-2014

Mike Daniels is a stud-2012

David Bakhtiari, better than credited here-2013

Mike Pennel looks promising-2014 UFA

Eddie Lacy is a beast -2013

Corey Linsely and JC Tretter look like players-2014

Randall and Rollins look like players-2015

Who did I miss? The top list is loaded with pro bowlers all pros and dare I say Hall of famers. Matthews and Rodgers are going to Canton. Nelson might have had an HoF career if he didn't spend his first three years buried on the depth chart and didn't struggle with injuries. Collins was picked up in 05 and would have been a likely HoF candidate. But is anyone on the bottom list at that caliber? From what I see 2014 and 2015 look like good drafts but 11-13 were rough.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Draft classes since 2010. My notables are highlighted. You can decide if they are good/adequate/poor.


2010 Draft


1 23 Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa

2 56 Mike Neal DT Purdue

3 71 Morgan Burnett DB Georgia Tech

5 154 Andrew Quarless TE Penn State

5 169 Marshall Newhouse OT Texas Christian

6 193 James Starks RB Buffalo

7 230 C.J. Wilson DE East Carolina


2011 Draft


1 32 Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State

2 64 Randall Cobb WR Kentucky

3 96 Alexander Green RB Hawaii

4 131 Davon House DB New Mexico State

5 141 D.J. Williams TE Arkansas

6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff OG Utah

6 186 D.J. Smith LB Appalachian State

6 197 Ricky Elmore DE Arizona

7 218 Ryan Taylor TE North Carolina

7 233 Lawrence Guy DT Arizona State


2012 Draft


1 28 Nick Perry LB Southern California

2 51 Jerel Worthy DT Michigan State

2 62 Casey Hayward DB Vanderbilt

4 132 Mike Daniels DT Iowa

4 133 Jerron McMillian DB Maine

5 163 Terrell Manning LB North Carolina State

7 241 Andrew Datko OT Florida State

7 243 B.J. Coleman QB Tennessee-Chattanooga


2013 Draft


1 26 Datone Jones DE UCLA

2 61 Eddie Lacy RB Alabama

4 109 David Bakhtiari OT Colorado

4 122 J.C. Tretter OT Cornell

4 125 Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA

5 159 Micah Hyde DB Iowa

5 167 Josh Boyd DE Mississippi State

6 193 Nate Palmer LB Illinois State

7 216 Charles Johnson WR Grand Valley State

7 224 Kevin Dorsey WR Maryland

7 232 Sam Barrington LB South Florida


2014 Draft


1 21 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix DB Alabama

2 53 Davante Adams WR Fresno State

3 85 Khyri Thornton DT Southern Mississippi

3 98 Richard Rodgers TE California

4 121 Carl Bradford LB Arizona State

5 161 Corey Linsley C Ohio State

5 176 Jared Abbrederis WR Wisconsin

6 197 Demetri Goodson DB Baylor

7 236 Jeff Janis WR Saginaw Valley State


2015 Draft


1 30 Damarious Randall DB Arizona State Senior

2 62 Quinten Rollins DB Miami (OH) Senior

3 94 Ty Montgomery WR Stanford Senior

4 129 Jake Ryan LB Michigan Senior

5 147 Brett Hundley QB UCLA Junior

6 206 Aaron Ripkowski FB Oklahoma Senior

6 (comp) 210 Christian Ringo DE Louisiana-Lafayette Senior

6 (comp) 213 Kennard Backman TE Alabama-Birmingham

 

[broguy]

I think there's some truth to this last point. If you look at our best players, and solid to good players, too many of them were picked up prior to 2010 and earlier.

Clay Matthews 2009
Aaron Rodgers 2005
BJ Raji 2009
Josh Sitton 2008
TJ Lang 2010
Sam Shields 2010
James Jones drafted in 07, signed as FA this year
James Starks 2010
Morgan Burnett 2010
Brian Bulaga 2010
Jordy Nelson-2008

In contrast what great players have we picked up since 2011?

Randall Cobb is a good offensive weapon but he's mediocre at best as a primary receiving option. -2011

Davante Adams struggled with his increased role-2014

HHCD- looks like a solid to good safety-2014

Mike Daniels is a stud-2012

David Bakhtiari, better than credited here-2013

Mike Pennel looks promising-2014 UFA

Eddie Lacy is a beast -2013

Corey Linsely and JC Tretter look like players-2014

Randall and Rollins look like players-2015

Who did I miss? The top list is loaded with pro bowlers all pros and dare I say Hall of famers. Matthews and Rodgers are going to Canton. Nelson might have had an HoF career if he didn't spend his first three years buried on the depth chart and didn't struggle with injuries. Collins was picked up in 05 and would have been a likely HoF candidate. But is anyone on the bottom list at that caliber? From what I see 2014 and 2015 look like good drafts but 11-13 were rough.

Yeah, but other than that 2010 class, which is conveniently left off in that 5-year draft period, you're talking about 2 good players per draft. Sometimes they're really good, but it's hard to find the pro bowlers every year, but you're aiming for above league average starters. Cobb, Lacy, Randall, Daniels, Clinton-Dix, Adams (young), Montgomery, Linsley, Tretter, Pennel, Barington, Hyde, Hayward, Rich. Rodgers, etc. is not a bad core at all. The star power may not be there, and hindsight is a b****, but I'll take that over a 5 year stretch. Especially considering what he already put in place to build on to.

 

[Un4GivN]

HHCD- looks like a solid to good safety-2014

Maybe this is only me... But I am starting to see a pro bowl caliber safety in HHCD. Been very impressed lately.

 

[adambr2]

Matthews and Rodgers are going to Canton.

Think so? Not to sidetrack this and Rodgers I think is pretty well a lock but Matthews? Seems debatable to me. If he finishes with another 5-7 strong years I think he's got a good shot but I doubt he has the credentials right now.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Maybe this is only me... But I am starting to see a pro bowl caliber safety in HHCD. Been very impressed lately.

I agree. With Rollins and Randall this could be a very fun young secondary to follow. Solid veterans in shields Hyde and Burnett.

Get some lb and dine in the draft I think this defense could jump quite a bit. That was a very good Washington offense they held in check without shields.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Sometimes they're really good, but it's hard to find the pro bowlers every year, but you're aiming for above league average starters. Cobb, Lacy, Randall, Daniels, Clinton-Dix, Adams (young), Montgomery, Linsley, Tretter, Pennel, Barington, Hyde, Hayward, Rich. Rodgers, etc. is not a bad core at all. The star power may not be there, and hindsight is a b****, but I'll take that over a 5 year stretch.

With Thompson using solely the draft to improve the team he has to do better than over the last five years to get some elite players though.

None of the last nine players you mentioned are even close to be above average starters.

 

[tynimiller]

If it was so easy to win SBs....oh wait, it isn't.

TT took the job in 2005,

-Since then GB combined regular season record is 108-67-1 (only 2 losing seasons)
-They have won the division 5 times, placed 2nd three times (2010 won SB)
-Have won 1 Super Bowl

In that time frame he drafted the likes of; Rodgers, Nick Collins, Greg Jennings, James Jones, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, Raji, Clay Matthews, Cobb, Eddie Lacy, and Ha-Ha as notables in the 1st-3rd rounds.

(left 2015 out as we don't know much yet, Randall and Rollins both appear to be good, how good who knows)

In that same time frame he's shown his late draft savy grabbing; Will Blackmon (4th), Johnny Jolly (6th), Crosby (6th), Sitton (4th), Lang (4th), Starks (6th), House (4th), Mike Daniels (4th), Bakhtiari (4th), Corey Linsley (5th)

There have also been some good UDFA's in his time as well.

As a whole, there are not many out there doing better than him.

Again if it was easy, the Vikings would have a Super Bowl...and the Cowboys would have won one by now with all the money thrown around in FA's.

It ain't easy, and if it was the game would suck to watch.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If it was so easy to win SBs....oh wait, it isn't.

TT took the job in 2005,

-Since then GB combined regular season record is 108-67-1 (only 2 losing seasons)
-They have won the division 5 times, placed 2nd three times (2010 won SB)
-Have won 1 Super Bowl

Taking into consideration that the Packers have started two future HOF QBs for most of the time over that period this isn't overly impressive.

 

[Un4GivN]

With Thompson using solely the draft to improve the team he has to do better than over the last five years to get some elite players though.

None of the last nine players you mentioned are even close to be above average starters.

You will eat those words one day... Adams will become more than anyone gives him credit for... Linsley is a solid starter, hard to argue that. You are also writing off a guy who was fine till injury in Montegomery. Hayward is a fine nickel and played a hell of game against Washington.

So of (None of the final 9) I think I could make a solid argument for at least 5. Not every person on a team can be clay matthews... You have to have some role players that just do their jobs. I think you are looking to have pro-bowl players at every position.

Even more so, I find it amazing that someone is arguing against a team that played their best game of the season in the playoffs 3 days ago. lol

Enjoy life man... Relax and enjoy the ride. You'll have plenty of time to complain if they lose. There will be months for it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You will eat those words one day... Adams will become more than anyone gives him credit for... Linsley is a solid starter, hard to argue that. You are also writing off a guy who was fine till injury in Montegomery. Hayward is a fine nickel and played a hell of game against Washington.

So of (None of the final 9) I think I could make a solid argument for at least 5. Not every person on a team can be clay matthews... You have to have some role players that just do their jobs. I think you are looking to have pro-bowl players at every position.

I agree with Linsley being a solid starter, missed him somehow in the list. As of right now none of the others is an above average starter though.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Taking into consideration that the Packers have started two future HOF QBs for most of the time over that period this isn't overly impressive.

In addition to this, if you would like to stack the Packers against the likes of the Vikings and Cowboys, go ahead, you should be more than giddy with TT.

For me, I would like to stack them against perennial winners like the Patriots and the as of late Seahawks.

Again, I am not saying TT is bad at what he does, it is what he doesn't do (and what he never will do) that is my reasoning for not wanting him as GM.

 

[Mondio]

In addition to this, if you would like to stack the Packers against the likes of the Vikings and Cowboys, go ahead, you should be more than giddy with TT.

For me, I would like to stack them against perennial winners like the Patriots and the as of late Seahawks.

Again, I am not saying TT is bad at what he does, it is what he doesn't do (and what he never will do) that is my reasoning for not wanting him as GM.

go ahead and stack them and since TT has been at the helm, how do they stack up? Get back to us with the numbers when you're done.

 

[Ace]

Draft classes since 2010. My notables are highlighted. You can decide if they are good/adequate/poor.


2010 Draft


1 23 Bryan Bulaga OT Iowa

2 56 Mike Neal DT Purdue

3 71 Morgan Burnett DB Georgia Tech

5 154 Andrew Quarless TE Penn State

5 169 Marshall Newhouse OT Texas Christian

6 193 James Starks RB Buffalo

7 230 C.J. Wilson DE East Carolina


2011 Draft


1 32 Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State

2 64 Randall Cobb WR Kentucky

3 96 Alexander Green RB Hawaii

4 131 Davon House DB New Mexico State

5 141 D.J. Williams TE Arkansas

6 179 Caleb Schlauderaff OG Utah

6 186 D.J. Smith LB Appalachian State

6 197 Ricky Elmore DE Arizona

7 218 Ryan Taylor TE North Carolina

7 233 Lawrence Guy DT Arizona State


2012 Draft


1 28 Nick Perry LB Southern California

2 51 Jerel Worthy DT Michigan State

2 62 Casey Hayward DB Vanderbilt

4 132 Mike Daniels DT Iowa

4 133 Jerron McMillian DB Maine

5 163 Terrell Manning LB North Carolina State

7 241 Andrew Datko OT Florida State

7 243 B.J. Coleman QB Tennessee-Chattanooga


2013 Draft


1 26 Datone Jones DE UCLA

2 61 Eddie Lacy RB Alabama

4 109 David Bakhtiari OT Colorado

4 122 J.C. Tretter OT Cornell

4 125 Johnathan Franklin RB UCLA

5 159 Micah Hyde DB Iowa

5 167 Josh Boyd DE Mississippi State

6 193 Nate Palmer LB Illinois State

7 216 Charles Johnson WR Grand Valley State

7 224 Kevin Dorsey WR Maryland

7 232 Sam Barrington LB South Florida


2014 Draft


1 21 Ha Ha Clinton-Dix DB Alabama

2 53 Davante Adams WR Fresno State

3 85 Khyri Thornton DT Southern Mississippi

3 98 Richard Rodgers TE California

4 121 Carl Bradford LB Arizona State

5 161 Corey Linsley C Ohio State

5 176 Jared Abbrederis WR Wisconsin

6 197 Demetri Goodson DB Baylor

7 236 Jeff Janis WR Saginaw Valley State


2015 Draft


1 30 Damarious Randall DB Arizona State Senior

2 62 Quinten Rollins DB Miami (OH) Senior

3 94 Ty Montgomery WR Stanford Senior

4 129 Jake Ryan LB Michigan Senior

5 147 Brett Hundley QB UCLA Junior

6 206 Aaron Ripkowski FB Oklahoma Senior

6 (comp) 210 Christian Ringo DE Louisiana-Lafayette Senior

6 (comp) 213 Kennard Backman TE Alabama-Birmingham

OOFTAH 2011 was bad

 

[RRyder]

In addition to this, if you would like to stack the Packers against the likes of the Vikings and Cowboys, go ahead, you should be more than giddy with TT.

For me, I would like to stack them against perennial winners like the Patriots and the as of late Seahawks.

Again, I am not saying TT is bad at what he does, it is what he doesn't do (and what he never will do) that is my reasoning for not wanting him as GM.

Perennial winners like the Seahawks? Just like the 49ers were a perennial winner not to long ago.

At least bring up say the Steelers or Ravens

Maybe a team should actually be a perennial winner before giving them that label?

 

[4Ever4Favre]

I don't understand why in a simple conversation or debate on a topic people have to resort to being complete ****heads.

Yes, Ravens and Steelers are great examples, thanks. I did say "as of late" Seahawks, to be fair. I only say them because they have built a solid team.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Too lazy to look for the stats but over TTs run what teams have had more Super Bowl wins, more division titles, and a better winning percentage?

I do know over the last 6 years the Packers have been one of the last 8 teams standing each year. 4 of the last 5 years they have won the Super Bowl or lost to the NFC rep for the Super Bowl.

How many Super bowls have teams with hall of fame qbs won over that time? I assume brady, Manning and big Ben (right?) all are hall of fame bound.

 

[tynimiller]

Taking into consideration that the Packers have started two future HOF QBs for most of the time over that period this isn't overly impressive.

Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon.........having a HOF, and sometimes a dang good one guarantees you ZILCH.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I don't understand why in a simple conversation or debate on a topic people have to resort to being complete ****heads.

Yes, Ravens and Steelers are great examples, thanks. I did say "as of late" Seahawks, to be fair. I only say them because they have built a solid team.

And they have really built their team through the draft. For every Lynch trade they have a bust like Jimmy graham. I am sure they have made some signing that have been good but like the Packers they are very dependant on qb play the last come years. Take away Wilson and that team isn't winning super bowls which seems to be the critique of the packers. That without rodgers they are not a contender