TT needs to go

[Pokerbrat2000]

What's next? "A Fire Capers" Thread?

 

[adambr2]

I can't believe fans and writers are still in angst about not landing Vernon Davis. Davis has been so bad in Denver he's down to the 3rd TE in the pecking order. His stone hands would have made us quickly forget about our drop issues with Davante Adams, that's for sure.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I can't believe fans and writers are still in angst about not landing Vernon Davis. Davis has been so bad in Denver he's down to the 3rd TE in the pecking order. His stone hands would have made us quickly forget about our drop issues with Davante Adams, that's for sure.

I will "man up" and say I supported the move to try and land Vernon Davis. Looked like a no brainer at the time to try and cure the Packer passing attack....but TT obviously knew a lot more then I did. But in my defense *big grin* I was also calling for Ted to go after Marshawn Lynch back in 2010 (4th round + conditional 5th or 6th/ Devon House and Terrell Manning) when it looked like we needed a running back. TT:1 PB:1

Side note: Who knows what Davis or Lynch would have done in GB

 

[King of Jeans]

I can't believe this is a real thread.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Link to Bob McGinn's article "Packers Hurt by Silent Ted's In-Season Inactivity" is below - from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel from this past Saturday, December 9. Also below full article. Interesting read.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...mpson-hurting-team-b99647553z1-364762971.html

WASHINGTON — As the offensive collapse unfolded and the defeats mounted, Ted Thompson really didn't do much of anything. Thank you, can I have another one, sir! And another! And still another!

The Green Bay Packers have absorbed shot after shot from hungry rivals for the last three months and not once did their general manager for the last 11 seasons say a word or fight back.

His silence and inactivity, at least regarding the team's failing roster, have said it all. What looks to be a dead team does have the wherewithal to defeat the Washington Redskins on Sunday in an NFC wild-card playoff game, but partly because of little reinforcement and inspiration from Thompson, the Packers might just pass quietly into the night.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

It has been said that a GM's job ends when the regular season begins, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Many opponents, not to mention other playoff teams, have helped themselves with free-agent signings, waiver claims and trades after Week 1. It takes hard work, expertise, decisiveness and nerve to mine the in-season personnel market, but the rewards for the wise GM are plentiful.

For years, the Packers have just promoted their undrafted free agents and late-round draft choices from the practice squad that weren't good enough to make the team the first time around.

Wide receiver James Jones came back to the Packers a week before the opener after his serendipitous release by the Giants. That was a no-brainer.

Since then, the Packers have added eight players to their 53-man roster. The list includes three practice-squad promotions (Jared Abbrederis, John Crockett, Justin Perillo), three activations from reserve categories (Letroy Guion, Datone Jones, Andrew Quarless), what in effect was the re-signing of Joe Thomas from the Cowboys' practice squad, and "street" free agent Rick Lovato. Meanwhile, coach Mike McCarthy, his assistants and their players prepare for teams on an almost weekly basis that have made significant in-season acquisitions.

It's no secret that members of the Packers' personnel department have griped for years that their boss is almost never willing to make a move. For years, scouts across the league have told me that. Now comes word that McCarthy's level of frustration has intensified because Thompson is so set in his ways and refuses to take a chance.

In the 1990s, Thompson worked alongside John Dorsey, Scot McCloughan, Reggie McKenzie and John Schneider under the direction of GM Ron Wolf. All five learned how to evaluate football players, direct a personnel department and run an NFL organization. Dorsey with the Chiefs, McCloughan with the 49ers and now Redskins, McKenzie with the Raiders and Schneider with the Seahawks all have been taking chances as general managers. Thompson, perhaps being true to his personality, has been the antithesis of his mentor.

In September 2007, Thompson traded a sixth-round draft choice to the Giants for running back Ryan Grant. It was a heist, with Grant going on to become the fifth-leading rusher in franchise history with 4,143 yards. Unfortunately for the rest of the organization, it was the first and last time Thompson ever gave up a draft choice in a trade for a player.

At midseason 2010, Thompson claimed mountainous Howard Green to buttress the run defense. Green played an integral role on a championship team. During the five regular seasons since then, Thompson has been awarded two players on waivers.

On the same day that Green arrived, the Packers signed linebacker Erik Walden off the street. Walden helped them reach the Super Bowl, started 24 games in 2011-'12 and then went to Indianapolis, where he just completed his third year as a starter. In the last five years, however, Thompson has gone to his practice squad 70% of the time (21 of 30) to fill vacancies on the 53.

Here's the list: Ray Dominguez, Brandon Saine and Graham Harrell in 2011; Greg Van Roten, DuJuan Harris, Jeremy Ross and Jordan Miller in 2012; Michael Hill, James Nixon, Myles White, Jake Stoneburner, Scott Tolzien, Victor Aiyewa and Jumal Rolle in 2013; Luther Robinson, Kevin Dorsey, Perillo and Chris Banjo in 2014; and the aforementioned three year this. Tolzien, Perillo and Banjo are all that remain from 2011-'14. Harris was a terrific little back down the stretch in 2012.

They all knew the system. They all were young and eager. The Packers had them in their building for a while and could be confident they were their kind of people. Only problem is, almost none of them could play.

In practically every case, there were players on the street with better talent at those positions when compared with what basically were rejects residing on the team's practice squad. The Packers couldn't be sure if they'd be a fit as a player or person, and obviously there would be teaching time required. In almost every situation, they opted for familiarity.

Eliot Wolf, the Packers' director of player personnel, examines the waiver wire six days each week and makes alterations in the team's pro board, which is comparable to the draft board. The pro scouts will study additional tape of players just waived and discuss their evaluations with Wolf. If Thompson is on the road, as he often is during the season, Wolf will call him to discuss players and offer suggestions made by the staff. Then it's up to Thompson, whose answer 999 times out of 1,000 will be no.

Thompson has talked about leaving no stone unturned, but he really doesn't. His aversion to trading eliminates an entire layer of player procurement that once got him Grant.

It should have been evident to Thompson early this season that the offense lacked speed at wide receiver and tight end. All it did was paralyze the attack. His responses were promoting Abbrederis, an oft-injured possession receiver, from the practice squad Oct. 3, and Perillo, the pedestrian tight end, from the practice squad Oct. 14.

Meanwhile, the Cowboys, Patriots, Ravens and Broncos helped themselves to varying degrees by trading at those two positions.

On Sept. 16, the Cowboys agreed to swap fifth- and sixth-round picks with the Raiders for wide receiver Brice Butler (6 feet 3 inches, 210 pounds, 4.39-second 40-yard dash). Butler missed eight games with a hamstring injury, but the Cowboys were intrigued by his vertical stretch, catching 12 passes for 258 yards (21.5).

On Sept. 17, the Patriots traded a fifth-round pick to the Texans for wide receiver Keshawn Martin (5-11½, 194, 4.43). When injuries struck, Martin finished with 24 receptions for 269 (11.2).

On Oct. 3, the Ravens traded a conditional seventh-round pick in 2018 to the Rams for wide receiver Chris Givens (5-11, 203, 4.39). Minus injured Breshad Perriman, the Ravens were desperate for a deep threat. Givens gave them that, catching 19 for 346 (18.2).

On Nov. 3, the Broncos traded two sixth-round picks to the 49ers for tight end Vernon Davis (6-3, 250, 4.45) and a seventh. Davis, 31, has 20 catches for 201 (10.3).

Davis has shown field-stretching speed, which would have been invaluable in Green Bay. His play seems to lack some of its old exuberance, but the Broncos have no complaints.

It's probable the 49ers preferred trading Davis to an AFC team. It's also probable they wouldn't have turned down a sweeter deal from the Packers.

Thompson refuses to trade even knowing that come March, like every March, he will be awarded an extra choice or two as compensation for losses in free agency. One could write an entire chapter on the "street" signings or waiver claims NFL teams have made since Sept. 13. It's more than obvious that there are gains to be made if the GM is willing to churn the end of his roster.

Some of the players might have met needs in Green Bay. Others wouldn't have. The point is that capable players are available to those with open minds.

Look at Arizona. Dwight Freeney sat unemployed from mid-March until Oct. 13. Today, he's the best pass rusher (eight sacks) for the 13-3 Cardinals. Safety D.J. Swearinger was in Green Bay on Nov. 23 for a medical checkup. A week after he said the Packers flunked him, Swearinger went to Arizona and played well as a spot starter.

Seattle went through several backs after injuries to Marshawn Lynch and Thomas Rawls. The Seahawks went back Dec. 16 to talented Christine Michael, their second-round draft choice in 2013 who had been available on the Redskins' practice squad since Nov. 19. Michael will start the playoff game Sunday after posting rushing games of 102 and 84 yards last month. Crockett was promoted Dec. 3.

Losing left tackle Ryan Clady for the season in May was a far worse blow for Denver than anything the Packers' offensive line was dealt. One of GM John Elway's moves was signing tackle Tyler Polumbus, 30, on Oct. 1. He isn't pretty, but his 138 snaps in Denver at both tackles were better than those of Don Barclay and Josh Walker in Green Bay. Ten days ago, the Broncos poached rookie guard Robert Myers off the Ravens' practice squad. They view Myers, a fifth-round pick, as a future starter.

The Patriots seriously bolstered their interior defense Oct. 1 by acquiring defensive tackle Akiem Hicks from the Saints for tight end Michael Hoomanawanui. They might have blown a sixth-rounder in a Sept. 29 trade with the Bears for linebacker Jon Bostic, who has done nothing. Bill Belichick wouldn't be sweating that. He views each season as a separate entity, and with his ability to build championship teams using every possible method, next year will just take care of itself. On the street/waiver front, New England has found its current nickel back in Leonard Johnson, an adequate backup tackle in ex-Lion LaAdrian Waddle and what might pass as their feature back for the playoffs in old pro Steven Jackson.

The Panthers showed it was Super Bowl or bust Sept. 29 when, after defensive end Charles Johnson went on temporary injured reserve, they traded a sixth-round pick to the Bears for Jared Allen. He has eaten up 560 snaps, still plays the run hard and flashes a rush or two every game. When injuries eliminated two of their top three cornerbacks last month, the Panthers opted to sign veterans Cortland Finnegan and Robert McClain instead of young prospects. They're both small and Finnegan is 31, but at least they don't need to be taught how to play in big games.

On Sunday, the Packers will see what McCloughan has done with his roster since opening day in his first season as Redskins GM. In mid-September, he signed cornerback Will Blackmon, who at 31 has produced seven turnover plays in 12 starts. On Sept. 29, he signed inside linebacker Mason Foster, who is 26 and had been a four-year starter for the Buccaneers. Foster played well enough to beat out an established player. Would you prefer Foster or Jake Ryan to win a playoff game now? When injuries hit, he signed former Saints running back Pierre Thomas, 31, on Dec. 11 and well-traveled tight end Alex Smith, 33, four days later. Thomas caught seven passes for 67 yards in the division-clinching victory in Philadelphia. Smith plays extensively. On Tuesday, he signed cornerback Cary Williams, who is nearing the end at 31 but has 75 career starts and a Super Bowl ring. McCloughan's mistake, at least based on talent alone, was cutting cornerback David Amerson, who after being claimed by the Raiders on Sept. 22 had an outstanding season. "To be honest, I feel like he (McCloughan) saved us in a way," Pro Bowl tackle Trent Williams said. "The talent he's brought in changed this locker room in just one off-season." Said McCloughan: "Yeah, they're veterans, and they're not long-term answers, but they're football players and they helped us."

Let's not misunderstand. The best players for every team had better be draft choices. The draft must be the lifeblood of every organization. Thompson has drafted well over time, but not well enough to bury his head in the sand when it comes to making moves during the season as well as the off-season.

The Packers are a team that seldom gets a lift from its most important man in the football operation. He will go months at a time without speaking publicly, leaving McCarthy with the thankless task of serving as the sole frontman five times a week. It's also unlike Wolf, his mentor, who would address questions head on every day and after every game, win or lose.

When this season plays out, Packers President Mark Murphy and the executive committee will evaluate the organization from top to bottom. Murphy could hardly have been more aggressive in his approach to making millions and millions of dollars for the corporation. It will be interesting to see what approach he takes regarding football.

Is there a link to this article ? Posting full articles is against forum rules

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There's no doubt in my mind that Thompson's reluctancy to use all methods to acquire talent has hurt the Packers chances to win another Super Bowl. In addition his drafts over the last five years have been less than stellar.

While he absolutely deserves credit for drafting Rodgers I've wondered for several years how fans would evaluate his tenure if some other team had drafted #12 or picked up the phone at the time the Packers were on the clock. I wouldn't mind bringing in another GM using all available ways to improve the team.

 

[Half Empty]

Fyi

Won the SB year he didn't trade for lynch

Fact. However, never to be proven is what might have happened the next couple of years with a threat at RB. Having Lacy didn't get them there the last couple of years, so maybe it wouldn't have made any difference.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

I don't know why people get so butt hurt when someone mentions replacing TT. Yes, he is pretty good at the draft and develop thing but he misses ALOT and then refuses to move on from those duds. Combine that with his mind boggling refusal to enter the FA market and you get what you saw this year.

Please do not let a win over a terrible Washington team cause your short term memory to go. This team was bad this year and you can put a lot of the failure on not having a roster of adequate back ups on TT.

 

[JBlood]

Not signing Lynch was a good move. He was, and is, more of a pain in the *** than he's worth. The most interesting comment in the McGinn article is about reported grumbling inside of 1265 about TT's in-season lack of activity. Maybe things will change.

 

[Carl]

The Packers were an epic meltdown away from the Super Bowl last season and also defeated the champions earlier in the year.

It's ridiculous to suggest we should get rid of a GM who built a team that good just a year ago.

Waiting until the season is actually over to evaluate him would make sense too.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I don't know why people get so butt hurt when someone mentions replacing TT. Yes, he is pretty good at the draft and develop thing but he misses ALOT and then refuses to move on from those duds. Combine that with his mind boggling refusal to enter the FA market and you get what you saw this year.

Please do not let a win over a terrible Washington team cause your short term memory to go. This team was bad this year and you can put a lot of the failure on not having a roster of adequate back ups on TT.

It's the blind loyalists who defend TT, dismissing how good Rodgers really is and how he could turn any team into a competitor. We see this year that they are pretty average on both sides of the ball.

 

[Carl]

Guion, Peppers, J Jones, and Kuhn were all free agents that now play a big role. Do they not count?

Plus, TT is better than anyone at keeping is own guys. No free agent this year would be as good as Daniels

 

[Carl]

It's the blind loyalists who defend TT, dismissing how good Rodgers really is and how he could turn any team into a competitor. We see this year that they are pretty average on both sides of the ball.

It's pretty obvious the defense has been better than average.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It's pretty obvious the defense has been better than average.

1 slightly above average defense in 5 years is not good enough.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Guion, Peppers, J Jones, and Kuhn were all free agents that now play a big role. Do they not count?

Plus, TT is better than anyone at keeping is own guys. No free agent this year would be as good as Daniels

Yes he is, and that is part of the problem.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers were an epic meltdown away from the Super Bowl last season and also defeated the champions earlier in the year.

It's ridiculous to suggest we should get rid of a GM who built a team that good just a year ago.

Waiting until the season is actually over to evaluate him would make sense too.

On the other hand it's ridiculous for a GM to think he's that much better at drafting than all other teams to justify ignoring any other way to improve the team.

 

[Carl]

Yes he is, and that is part of the problem.

I bet some fans would be happier if TT was like the Lions or Broncos GM in that they sign free agents, but also let good players go just because it would be making moves.

 

[4Ever4Favre]

That's the point, success is a proper execution of both. FYI, Denver has a pretty good team. Throw AR on that team and they are winning the past few SB's.

 

[Carl]

On the other hand it's ridiculous for a GM to think he's that much better at drafting than all other teams to justify ignoring any other way to improve the team.

Like I said in another post, 4 free agent ate currently playing a large role. What's the magic number that will please fans to have?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I bet some fans would be happier if TT was like the Lions or Broncos GM in that they sign free agents, but also let good players go just because it would be making moves.

There's no denying that a ton of free agent signings or trades don't work out, completey ignoring both isn't the way to go either though.

IMO it's ridiculous to mention the Lions or any other team not having a HOF QB when evaluating Thompson as the Patriots, with Bellichick using all ways to acquire talent, should be the team to aim for with four Super Bowl wins and six appearances with their franchise QB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Like I said in another post, 4 free agent ate currently playing a large role. What's the magic number that will please fans to have?

The Packers currently have four players on their team that have played for another team, if I recall correctly all other teams have at least 16. It's pretty accurate to mention that overall Thompson ignores other ways than the draft to improve the team.

 

[bigbubbatd]

TT is not the best gm in the game but to say he needs to be replaced is foolish. I get the NE comparisons. That is the team to beat but if Seattle runs the ball NE likely loses that super bowl and then hasn't won since 2004. Should they fire their gm too? I mean Ted won one much more recently

 

[4Ever4Favre]

Why is it foolish to want a GM that will utilize all available options to field a football team?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

TT is not the best gm in the game but to say he needs to be replaced is foolish. I get the NE comparisons. That is the team to beat but if Seattle runs the ball NE likely loses that super bowl and then hasn't won since 2004. Should they fire their gm too? I mean Ted won one much more recently

On the other hand the Patriots could have won six Super Bowls if not for Tyree's helmet catching a hail mary and Manningham coming up with another incredible catch four years later.

 

[Carl]

Why is it foolish to want a GM that will utilize all available options to field a football team?

Because the vast majority of GMs simply haven't built as good of a team.