Trouble in Paradise?

[OldSchool101]

I'm glad some of the players are frustrated & speaking out... the leadership & game-plan has been significantly below par.

- For MLF & AR to let the defense dictate what plays the GB's offense ran is ridiculous. With the RB's averaging 4.8+ yds/carry and then NOT running the ball 75% of the time in the 4th quarter "because they had 8 men in the box" played right into the Giant's hand. So what if they stacked the box, MLF should've gone with an extra OL and maybe even another as FB to impose GB's will, not run scared & pass the ball (poorly!). The Run/Pass ratio should be 60/40 with the RB talent on-hand, NOT 45/55!

- Barry's bend-don't-break D is allowing the opposing offense to dictate the game, also. Stack the box and/or blitz and have the DB's man-up... their WR's were 2nd & 3rd tier players ~ surely Alexander, Douglas & Stokes are better at their jobs than those WR's. No reason Barkley should've gotten 30 yards all day, much less the 70 that he got.

If nobody calls-out the stupidity above nothing changes... as we've seen to date.

Amen. It’s a wake up call. I’m not sure what worse squeezing out a close Win or giving up 20 unanswered points and just kinda getting slapped around like a puppy dog.

Short term a sliver Win is better, long term getting publicly embarrassed is better. Even Aaron has a poor showing, many of his passes being uncharacteristically off target imo. I’ve never seen so many overthrows, under throws and just throwaways combined.
It’s almost like we are trying to find our way? Not so much a deficiency or decline in physical ability as it is we’re just not fluent. Somewhat dysfunctional if you will.

 

[tynimiller]

I think the one thing many are forgetting is our frustration is laughable to some due to the fact we are 3-2 and over the last three regular seasons factored in we win over 75% of our games on the regular. This isn't to say frustration isn't warranted, I just also think we have to be thankful we are frustrated in the fact we aren't excelling further than we are, which is already a pretty dang good football team.

 

[milani]

Frustration is understandable. Public venting from multiple veteran players is completely unacceptable. LaFleur needs to have a closed door session with all the offenders and state such sternly. Clark and Lowry need to pull Slaton aside and tell him to shut his big pie hole.

Like to say that is the written policy but in the modern game it is not. Players now know believe they have that freedom to push the pile. Once they started doing such there was no stopping them. Heck, if I recall back in the day a disgruntled Magic Johnson publicly complained about the Lakers coach cramping their style and what happened. The owner listened and fired the coach.

 

[Schultz]

I'm glad some of the players are frustrated & speaking out... the leadership & game-plan has been significantly below par.

- For MLF & AR to let the defense dictate what plays the GB's offense ran is ridiculous. With the RB's averaging 4.8+ yds/carry and then NOT running the ball 75% of the time in the 4th quarter "because they had 8 men in the box" played right into the Giant's hand. So what if they stacked the box, MLF should've gone with an extra OL and maybe even another as FB to impose GB's will, not run scared & pass the ball (poorly!). The Run/Pass ratio should be 60/40 with the RB talent on-hand, NOT 45/55!

- Barry's bend-don't-break D is allowing the opposing offense to dictate the game, also. Stack the box and/or blitz and have the DB's man-up... their WR's were 2nd & 3rd tier players ~ surely Alexander, Douglas & Stokes are better at their jobs than those WR's. No reason Barkley should've gotten 30 yards all day, much less the 70 that he got.

If nobody calls-out the stupidity above nothing changes... as we've seen to date.

I just want to make sure I have this right. Against N.E. and NYG the Packers should have stacked the box and forced there 3rd string and injured QBs to throw but when our opponent stacks the box against us our H.O.F. QB shouldn't throw?

 

[PikeBadger]

Like to say that is the written policy but in the modern game it is not. Players now know believe they have that freedom to push the pile. Once they started doing such there was no stopping them. Heck, if I recall back in the day a disgruntled Magic Johnson publicly complained about the Lakers coach cramping their style and what happened. The owner listened and fired the coach.

Well, if that's what is going on here and now, Gutekunst needs to walk in that locker room and personally address the team and explain to them the chain of command and that the media of any type falls outside this command structure. All talk must stay inside 1265.

 

[milani]

Well, if that's what is going on here and now, Gutekunst needs to walk in that locker room and personally address the team and explain to them the chain of command and that the media of any type falls outside this command structure. All talk must stay inside 1265.

I am sure at some point Robert Kraft and BB had to do that at some point despite all the Patriots success. It gets handled differently. I recall when Mike Ditka coached the Bears if a player went off the beaten path with that he headed to the GM and said get rid of him.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

I think the one thing many are forgetting is our frustration is laughable to some due to the fact we are 3-2 and over the last three regular seasons factored in we win over 75% of our games on the regular. This isn't to say frustration isn't warranted, I just also think we have to be thankful we are frustrated in the fact we aren't excelling further than we are, which is already a pretty dang good football team.

Great on paper only. In reality we are playing very mediocre and not at all what this roster is capable of.

And that comes down to lock of leadership at the HC level and Barry all though showed flushes of greatness for the most part is slow to react or completely not capable to act/react, predictable and locks imagination.

All in all bouth MLF and Barry are the biggest issues we have not the players.

Let's not wait 2 more years to arrive at what we can see right now and waste this roster and potential by being petioned with MLF and Barry.

Give them 3 more games tops to figure it out and make sweeping changes in aproch or Fire them bouth.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Do you feel 2 loses this early in the season will help us adjust going forward?

 

[weeds]

5 games in ... 12 to go. Settle down...

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[Pkrjones]

I just want to make sure I have this right. Against N.E. and NYG the Packers should have stacked the box and forced there 3rd string and injured QBs to throw but when our opponent stacks the box against us our H.O.F. QB shouldn't throw?

If our HOF QB isn't succeeding throwing against a stacked box what makes you think Zappe or Jones would? With AR's experience & supposed football intelligence he should be able to win against a stacked box...but if it isn't working he should be smart enough to rely on the RB's to win.

Why is the offense so quick to abandon the run? Apparently AR isn't capable of taking over a game with these receivers so why doesn't the offense abandon the pass until these receivers are more capable?

 

[Schultz]

So how do these receivers become more capable if they abandon the pass?

 

[Pkrjones]

So how do these receivers become more capable if they abandon the pass?

They can become more capable with less pressure to perform by getting 10-12 targets between the 3. Why must Lazard, Cobb, & Doubs be force-fed 20 targets/game and expected to produce like #1's & #2's? Our 2 best (at the moment) offensive players are Jones & Dillon...THEY should be getting 30-35 touches/game, not the WR's.

 

[Schultz]

No doubt those are the 2 best players, though the gap between Dillon and Lazard is not as big as most think IMO. My point is if the passing game doesn't get better they become a one trick pony again come playoffs except this time instead of AR to DA it is the run game. I am okay with a few in season losses while trying to improve the passing game in time for the playoffs. IMO.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Do you feel 2 loses this early in the season will help us adjust going forward?

The urgency is defenitly there.
However I dont have faith in this coaching stuff and there ability to make this adjustments.

Especially MLF, Barry and Butkus.
I haven't seen anything so far that leads me to bieve that they are capable to lead and coach this team to play to there potential.

 

[Poppa San]

I have been following Packers for more than 15 years and been a shareholder recently...I strongly feel it is time for GM and Head Coach (HC) to go. We spent two first round picks on defense and we gave 27 today! What is defense doing? All I hear from the HC is we need to clean up on every press meeting. When is that he is going to give a clean and perfect game?

So you want to ditch the coach that has the most wins in his first 50 games in NFL history?

 

[Sanguine camper]

Jet lag shouldn't be much of an issue flying west. It's also no excuse because the Giants had to deal with it too.

When you are not well prepared, jet lag will be an issue. I highly doubt the Packers will be ready to play by Sunday. Expect more of the same where the teams relaxes for much of the game.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Im not sure if that was a Pun? but I like it!

I wouldn’t write the season off just yet. We’ve lost 2 games and both were Road contests. As someone else in here recently said, in this league you’ve got to take every game seriously. We took half of this game seriously, then went on vacation. That traveling is a big distraction, we had players more interested in a London vacation than doing their job, just ask Rasul he was cussing about that and someone needs to remind him how that worked out?

If you recall we went up 17-3 in the first half, so let’s not pretend like we can’t win a football game. You’ve got to play 4 quarters. Sometimes 5 Qtrs. Give the Giants credit, they have a good Defense and formidable Run game and that goes a long ways in this sport. Especially when an opponents is not at their best (that was not anywhere close to our best)

The way I see it. We need to take care of business at Lambeau this weekend and we’re right back in the thick.

You made my point, this team refuses to play 4 quarters. There's no leadership to be found anywhere.

 

[PikeBadger]

You made my point, this team refuses to play 4 quarters. There's no leadership to be found anywhere.

Hard to argue with that based on what we've seen so far.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think the one thing many are forgetting is our frustration is laughable to some due to the fact we are 3-2 and over the last three regular seasons factored in we win over 75% of our games on the regular. This isn't to say frustration isn't warranted, I just also think we have to be thankful we are frustrated in the fact we aren't excelling further than we are, which is already a pretty dang good football team.

I just want to make sure I have this right. Against N.E. and NYG the Packers should have stacked the box and forced there 3rd string and injured QBs to throw but when our opponent stacks the box against us our H.O.F. QB shouldn't throw?

Correct. If You’re talking generalities I’d agree. But using that to contest a situational decision loses its weight.
Lots of football is situational, so in general it’s a good point, but it shouldn’t be used as some blanket approach in football.

 

[OldSchool101]

So how do these receivers become more capable if they abandon the pass?

Mixing in more TE and RB in our passing game is one way to fill the pie. Marcedes, Deguara, Tonyan, Dillon and Jones as a group need more targets (from a % of the total standpoint).

We’ve seen some targets towards Jones and even Marcedes! However it’s been minimal and what you would expect from a O firing on all cylinders with WR, Which is not us quite yet.

 

[Mondio]

Hard to argue with that based on what we've seen so far.

I would argue that it's hard to say they've looked like a team with no directions or leaders either. They haven't looked great every minute of every game, but they've looked well enough to know they're not just floundering in the wind. i think a lot of fans have lost perspective on what it takes to be good in this league.

I think we're seeing a good team that still has some things to figure out about itself and how to better handle situational football. Every year is different and we have a lot of new guys on this team and moving parts.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would argue that it's hard to say they've looked like a team with no directions or leaders either. They haven't looked great every minute of every game, but they've looked well enough to know they're not just floundering in the wind. i think a lot of fans have lost perspective on what it takes to be good in this league.

I think we're seeing a good team that still has some things to figure out about itself and how to better handle situational football. Every year is different and we have a lot of new guys on this team and moving parts.

Yes. We have talent at every corner. We desperately need continuity and consistency. We throttle a team on both sides of the ball one half and then look like we’re lost the next half.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

So you want to ditch the coach that has the most wins in his first 50 games in NFL history?

I think there is more to it the just saying this is a coach that has the most or X amount of wins etc..

You have to direct every aspect of the rosters he had since HD has been here, the assistant coaches he had during all this time etc.. etc..

All I know that great coaches are great leaders and know how to keep there teams focused, motivated, are very good at making adjustments on thd fly if things aren't working, come up with great game plans vs the toughest of competition and find ways to win even with mediocre rosters.

I don't see this qualities in Lafleur, Barry, Butkus .
And I think waiting to see what happends over the next 1-2years is a mistake and a waste of roster talent and opportunity.
Same way as waiting to see how Shawn Mennenga pens out when it was obvious the dude can't coach.

One thing about Gute he isn't already of making agressive moved.
In my opinion we are very close to that time where such move or moves might need to be made.

 

[Firethorn1001]

I have been following Packers for more than 15 years and been a shareholder recently...I strongly feel it is time for GM and Head Coach (HC) to go. We spent two first round picks on defense and we gave 27 today! What is defense doing? All I hear from the HC is we need to clean up on every press meeting. When is that he is going to give a clean and perfect game?

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[OldSchool101]

Guys, while I fully agree we’ve got some notable deficiencies, we are waaay to early to say it’s time to fire everyone. Sometimes it takes a team 1/2 season to find their bearings.
One thing that helps in meantime is that we are in a relatively weaker division. Our schedule has a few teams we might lose to, but otherwise doesn’t look overly menacing. If we beat the Jets? We are actually in pretty good shape.

I mean we play the Lions twice. Buffalo, Eagles and Dallas are spread out and give us a little time to fix things, so I think we go 1-2 there. The Rams look inconsistent, that could be a Win I didn’t otherwise consider. Washington doesn’t overly concern me. We play the Bears and The Vikings we get at Lambeau. Tennessee got beat by the Giants and assaulted and embarrassed by the Bills. The Dolphins are trying to figure things out after a terrible injury to Tua. This not a frightening season imo. Past Buffalo, there’s not a team we shouldn’t be in the game in the 4th Quarter.