The optimism thread - all may not be lost yet

[PFanCan]

Hello, I am looking for Rodell, anyone seen him?

Oh, wait. Wrong room...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'll one-up that.

Hundley begins his HOF career next week, immediately benefiting from the tutelage of Aaron Rodgers and 2+ years in the system. He is an instant sensation, seamlessly running the offense, leading the Packers to a 12-4 record and a win in SB 52.

The development is so shocking that it creates a QB controversy that no one would have imagined possible and makes the 2008 controversy pale in comparison. The Packers are left with no choice but to build around Brett Hundley and trade Aaron Rodgers in 2018 for a king's random return of picks. The residual effects from all these additional picks allow the Packers to load up on both sides of the ball for several future drafts, creating a dynasty in Green Bay as Hundley goes on to win 6 Super Bowls for the Packers in his career.

Oh, and Hundley ends up marrying Olivia Munn.

True story, you can't make this stuff up!

 

[adambr2]

i'll be optimistic and predict 2-8 (maybe 3-7) the rest record of the way, with a 10-15 draft pick.

Man, I would hate to have seen your pessimistic prediction.

 

[Forget Favre]

I thought it was "Game over" against the Cowboys but was then happily proven wrong.
One thing I came away from that game was to not lose faith in my boys.
And that is what I'm going to do here.
No one knows what will happen but I'm going to keep the faith and hope for the best for our Packers.

 

[Half Empty]

You missed the point. First the question wasn't directed at you. Not sure why you felt compelled to answer a question for someone else. Second, it's pretty easy to tell the point was if the season was "gone" and you've already checked out, then what's the point of wasting your time following it?

There is a question that you might be able to clear up though. Define "the season is gone." What does that mean, exactly? Because from what I can tell by looking at the schedule, it's still here. Do you mean any chance of making the playoffs is gone? Because that's not true at all. It has decreased, but it's certainly not gone by any stretch. Do you mean any chance to get to the Super Bowl is gone? Because that depends on whether #12 can be ready by playoff time. I mean, if we're going to come to any agreement that the season is "gone" then "gone" needs to be defined, does it not?

First, I didn't feel compelled, but I thought I'd get my two cents in. Didn't know only the person you're hammering can respond.

Second, I don't think you re-phrased the question but pretty much re-stated it, and therefore I still don't understand. You appear to assume that, once the season is determined to be gone, those who feel so should check out, no longer follow the team, and are wasting their time if they don't quit on it. Wrong. As elsewhere, I followed them through the Gory years, knowing from the get-go that they wouldn't win it all (or even a significant portion of it) but still tracking their fortunes. You sound pretty much like the classic definition of a fair-weather fan - once you know the objective is lost, it's time to go.

When the season is gone is clearly an individual and subjective term. For me, anything short of a SB is failure, so when that goal is beyond reach, the season is gone. Doesn't mean, of course, that I won't be interested in what happens and will stop coming here and elsewhere to debate, just that, with the expectations this team has had for a long time, there's no point in settling.

 

[BrokenArrow]

First, I didn't feel compelled, but I thought I'd get my two cents in. Didn't know only the person you're hammering can respond.

Second, I don't think you re-phrased the question but pretty much re-stated it, and therefore I still don't understand. You appear to assume that, once the season is determined to be gone, those who feel so should check out, no longer follow the team, and are wasting their time if they don't quit on it. Wrong. As elsewhere, I followed them through the Gory years, knowing from the get-go that they wouldn't win it all (or even a significant portion of it) but still tracking their fortunes. You sound pretty much like the classic definition of a fair-weather fan - once you know the objective is lost, it's time to go.

Who the hell do you think you are calling me a fair-weather fan? By declaring that the "season is gone" you are essentially saying it is pointless to carry on and therefore it is a waste of time to try. That is the implication. So I'm sure you can understand how those who give up can be viewed as "fair-weather" as well.

BTW, the SB is not beyond reach. It is a loftier goal now, but not beyond reach.

 

[kevans74]

I'll one-up that.

Hundley begins his HOF career next week, immediately benefiting from the tutelage of Aaron Rodgers and 2+ years in the system. He is an instant sensation, seamlessly running the offense, leading the Packers to a 12-4 record and a win in SB 52.

The development is so shocking that it creates a QB controversy that no one would have imagined possible and makes the 2008 controversy pale in comparison. The Packers are left with no choice but to build around Brett Hundley and trade Aaron Rodgers in 2018 for a king's random return of picks. The residual effects from all these additional picks allow the Packers to load up on both sides of the ball for several future drafts, creating a dynasty in Green Bay as Hundley goes on to win 6 Super Bowls for the Packers in his career.

Oh, and Hundley ends up marrying Olivia Munn.

you win

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I'm no doctor, there is pretty much no broken clavicle injury that leaves the athlete with any restriction whatsoever after 3 months. Meaning absolute worst case scenario, by January 15th, he should be 100% with no effects from his injury.
That would put him at the divisional round for returning.

While it might be possible to have Rodgers play in January there's absolutely no way he would be able to perform at the same level as early this season as he'll definitely lose arm strength and accuracy over the next few months.

Let's face it, we weren't going very far into the playoffs with this Defense IMO. The best shot we had was some home games and then to get some lucky bounces at the Championship level.

The Packers were definitely one of the favorites to make it to the Super Bowl before Rodgers' injury. Taking a look around the NFC there's currently not a dominant team out there.

BTW, the SB is not beyond reach. It is a loftier goal now, but not beyond reach.

Once again, you will be disappointed if you think the Packers have a legitimate shot at making it to the Super Bowl this season.

 

[HD3924]

We'll see what Brett Hundley is made of. Do or die time for him, for the Packers stick with him as AR's follower or draft a QB first round. To be honest, I now would like to see, what the team can do in that situation, everyone has to step up. When Aaron Jones ran so well against Dallas, there was hope we had a RB again. Just my opinion, the Montgomery-Experiment has failed and I miss Eddy Lacy. All these injuries on O-Line certainly do not help the run game and Hundley needs more than anybody else good blocking sooner than later.

Defence concerns me. Either you can pressure with the D-Line only and put everybody else back in coverage like the Giants did in 2007 to beat the Patriots (Martinez and Ryan more run stoppers ?) or like the Packers in the Harris/Woodson-era leave them alone out there and fill the box. None of these two options I see with the Pack's D. Neither fish nor flesh. I was never a friend of the 3-4 by the way.

 

[brandon2348]

While it might be possible to have Rodgers play in January there's absolutely no way he would be able to perform at the same level as early this season as he'll definitely lose arm strength and accuracy over the next few months.



.

We simply do not know that right now. While there might be some issues with finding rhythm again some medical experts believe it is possible for Rodgers to start throwing the ball again at 5 weeks with a return in 8 weeks. While this is highly unlikely it still remains a possibility.

 

[Half Empty]

Who the hell do you think you are calling me a fair-weather fan? By declaring that the "season is gone" you are essentially saying it is pointless to carry on and therefore it is a waste of time to try. That is the implication. So I'm sure you can understand how those who give up can be viewed as "fair-weather" as well.

BTW, the SB is not beyond reach. It is a loftier goal now, but not beyond reach.

Since the season is gone, might as well spend some time on off-topic subjects. First, I didn't call YOU a fair-weather fan, I merely offered my definition of that category - if the shoe fits, wear it, if not, don't take offense.

Perhaps I misinterpreted to whom you were referring when addressing the pointlessness of carrying on. If you mean the team, I agree that they should 'try', because that's what they get paid obscene amounts of money to do. If you mean fans 0r, specifically, sports forums posters, I have to ask, again, that entails. If I, individually and subjectively, have decided that there's no hope of the team reaching the only goal I have, do you mean I shouldn't (or shouldn't be allowed to) 'carry on' with posting and/or following the team's fortunes? If so, I have to disagree, just as those of us who criticize various aspects of the team during the good times shouldn't be regarded as fair weather types. A little clarification, please, and we can pick up the discussion again - or let it dies, as you wish.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I mentioned in a post last night that we have 3 pro bowl caliber wide receivers and a do all , pro bowl te. Hundley will have the players around him to do well.

Like I mentioned. Over the next month, we will get our offensive linemen and key secondary players back. This team can dig themselves out of this hole we found ourselves in.

This team will rally. The war paint put on, and no prisoners taken... Step two is to get everyone healthy... if this happens, I don't see why playoffs are out of the question.

To take it a step further. This team collectively pulls their big boy pants up, and tightens their work belt. Making the playoffs without the goat pulling the weight every week, will strengthen this team greatly..... then add the goat back into the equation....

We could enter the playoffs with a lot of optimism...

Secondary point. Hundley would be worth a high 1St rounder, MINIMUM, if he leads this team to the playoffs...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We'll see what Brett Hundley is made of. Do or die time for him, for the Packers stick with him as AR's follower or draft a QB first round. To be honest, I now would like to see, what the team can do in that situation, everyone has to step up. When Aaron Jones ran so well against Dallas, there was hope we had a RB again. Just my opinion, the Montgomery-Experiment has failed and I miss Eddy Lacy. All these injuries on O-Line certainly do not help the run game and Hundley needs more than anybody else good blocking sooner than later.

I'm absolutely convinced that neither Hundley will be Rodgers' successor nor will the Packers spend a first round pick on a quarterback anytime soon. There's no reason to miss Lacy as he hasn't been an impact running back for most of the past two plus seasons.

We simply do not know that right now. While there might be some issues with finding rhythm again some medical experts believe it is possible for Rodgers to start throwing the ball again at 5 weeks with a return in 8 weeks. While this is highly unlikely it still remains a possibility.

Most medical experts predict that it will take Rodgers at least three months to throw the football again.

 

[brandon2348]

Most medical experts predict that it will take Rodgers at least three months to throw the football again.

Once again we don't know all the particulars at this point. If it was such a slam dunk that he is shut down for the season he would of already been IR' d.

I think well have more answers in the coming weeks.

 

[pizzle]

Here's my fantasy scenario for the Packers moving forward:

1) Hundley takes over for the whole season, as AR is shut down. Regular and post-season. Rodgers' injury dictates a take-the-slow approach, and Packers brass want to showcase the young Nupe. He goes 6-4, with an overall completion % near 65 and leads us into the tourney as division champs with a 10-6 record.

2) We lose in the wildcard round to Arizona, who are the #4 seed to our #5. (Adrian Peterson wins Comeback Player OTY) But, we rejoice in another roller-coaster ride of a season that keeps us atop the NFC North.

3) TT steps down immediately following the playoff loss. Eliot Wolf takes over as GM and delegates Capers to a front office consultant role. He then hires Todd Bowles as DC and Mike Nolan as Asst. Linebackers Coach. We keep Whitt, Trgovac, and Moss in their respective positions.

4a) In the off-season, we trade Brett to JAX for a 1st and 3rd rd'er in the upcoming draft. Then, we trade Nick Perry and Kyler Fackrell to the Pats for Malcolm Butler and a 7th. We sign Butler to the big deal he's wanted-he plays like a #1 CB for us since he's finally paid/appreciated by a franchise. We also restructure/extend Aaron, Jordy, Randall, and Clay to make room for Corey, Davante, Richard Rodgers as an "elite #3 TE", Morgan, and HHCD. We bring back Ahmad Brooks and Dial, but medically settle with Rollins/don't bring back House. With all the comp picks we receive, in total we amass 12 picks in the upcoming draft to reload with! We trade up to get Bradley Chubb in the top part of the 1st round to be our Baby Julius Peppers (a 3-4 elephant end/OLB hybrid who rushes from the inside in dime subpackages along with Chris Odom) then use our other 1st rd pick to pluck Marquis Haynes, a speedy EDGE that eventually replaces Clay.

4b) In the 2nd rd we grab Jaire Alexander to be our new slot corner. We finally solve the secondary issues with King and Butler on the outside, Jaire as the nickel back and Randall as #4/dime back/"The Micah Hyde" role. In the 3rd rd we nab two quality offensive tackles to compete for roster spots, and in the 4th round we scoop up a sleeper wideout. 5th round on is BPA.

5) 2018 is a storybook season. Reloaded with talent and defensive philosophies, we CRUSH THE NFL. 16-0. AR12 wins Comeback POTY + MVP. We beat Brady and BB in SB 53, 30-10. Atlanta is filled with cheese and green glory. Aaron dethrones TB12 as the GOAT QB.

Optimistic enough for ya?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Once again we don't know all the particulars at this point. If it was such a slam dunk that he is shut down for the season he would of already been IR' d.

I think well have more answers in the coming weeks.

Rodgers needs surgery to repair the broken collarbone on his throwing shoulder. I think that's all we need to know that he won't be back within the next eight weeks.

 

[brandon2348]

Rodgers needs surgery to repair the broken collarbone on his throwing shoulder. I think that's all we need to know that he won't be back within the next eight weeks.

If we're in contention come mid-late December I'm not betting against Rodgers playing. They must believe there is a chance he can practice before the 6 week mark or he would be IR'd. It's that simple.

If Hundley can keep this thing afloat there is still some hope.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Hundley can keep this thing afloat there is still some hope.

Unfortunately that's a huge question mark though.

 

[brandon2348]

Unfortunately that's a huge question mark though.

Think we need to see what happens Sunday with Hundley given a full week penciled as starter. Saints don't have a great front 7. It's at Lambeau. I expect MM to have em ready.

Beyond that you got Bears, Buc's, Browns, Lions, Ravens. All very winnable games.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Think we need to see what happens Sunday with Hundley given a full week penciled as starter. Saints don't have a great front 7. It's at Lambeau. I expect MM to have em ready.

Beyond that you got Bears, Buc's, Browns, Lions, Ravens. All very winnable games.

Well said. Let`s at least give the guy a chance before we end it all.

 

[HD3924]

I'm absolutely convinced that neither Hundley will be Rodgers' successor nor will the Packers spend a first round pick on a quarterback anytime soon. There's no reason to miss Lacy as he hasn't been an impact running back for most of the past two plus seasons.

I was asking myself, what did they see in Hundley, even if I compare him to the AR in Dallas, when Favre was injured, there is no way the same potential .. so what did the coaching staff see in him ... Supposed, AR plays 3 more years, if he wants to ... he will be 34 next year ... a draft pick should be spent latest 2019 ...

as this is called the Optimism-Thread ... well, the pessimist experiences only nice surprises ?

 

[swhitset]

I mentioned in a post last night that we have 3 pro bowl caliber wide receivers and a do all , pro bowl te. Hundley will have the players around him to do well.

Like I mentioned. Over the next month, we will get our offensive linemen and key secondary players back. This team can dig themselves out of this hole we found ourselves in.

This team will rally. The war paint put on, and no prisoners taken... Step two is to get everyone healthy... if this happens, I don't see why playoffs are out of the question.

To take it a step further. This team collectively pulls their big boy pants up, and tightens their work belt. Making the playoffs without the goat pulling the weight every week, will strengthen this team greatly..... then add the goat back into the equation....

We could enter the playoffs with a lot of optimism...

Secondary point. Hundley would be worth a high 1St rounder, MINIMUM, if he leads this team to the playoffs...

There's a lot of "if"s there. But I agree with your last sentence as stated.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I think Rodgers will come back this season. I gotta believe that his collarbone can heal in 7 weeks or so like last time.

I wonder how much the fact that it is his throwing shoulder will affect his ability to return this year.

I am hopeful that Hundley will play better with more practice reps in Packers scheme. Hopefully the players will rally around him and show that they are a better team than they have looked at times.

I agree that in a way the games should be more entertaining, for me at least. I have no expectations so hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised. (fingers crossed)

 

[BrokenArrow]

Once again, you will be disappointed if you think the Packers have a legitimate shot at making it to the Super Bowl this season.

So you have already forseen that Hundley has no chance of getting us to the playoffs? That remains to be seen. Getting to the playoffs is the crux of the matter. Until there is official word that Rodgers cannot be ready by playoff time, we absolutely have a legitimate shot at getting there.

 

[adambr2]

While it might be possible to have Rodgers play in January there's absolutely no way he would be able to perform at the same level as early this season as he'll definitely lose arm strength and accuracy over the next few months.



The Packers were definitely one of the favorites to make it to the Super Bowl before Rodgers' injury. Taking a look around the NFC there's currently not a dominant team out there.



Once again, you will be disappointed if you think the Packers have a legitimate shot at making it to the Super Bowl this season.

Ok, I'm trying to reconcile these two statements, that one, you don't believe there is a dominant team in the NFC (I agree with that part), and that we don't have a legitimate shot anymore.

1 - Go 5-5 with Hundley at QB (comparatively, Flynn went 2-2-1 in this situation, and he was pulled off the street.)

2 - Have 9-7 be good enough to win the division. We obviously need to win the other game vs. Minnesota, and probably go 4-2 in the division. Minnesota has a brutal 3 game road trip in late Nov.- early December, @Detroit, @Atlanta, @Carolina. It's totally realistic they could drop all 3. If they do, we need to only find one other loss on their schedule to drop them to 9-7, and they've got at least somewhat competitive games remaining against the Rams, Redskins, Bengals, and Ravens.

3 - If 9-7 wins the division, we get a home game 1st round. Even if Rodgers isn't back yet, it's plenty plausible that Hundley if he has gone 5-5 to this point could win a home playoff game against what would probably be a 9-7 to 10-6 quality team. Home advantage means a great deal in January.

4 - By this point, it's mid-January and 13 weeks out from Rodgers' injury. You would certainly think even if Rodgers isn't built up to 100% arm strength again, he's been throwing enough by this point to come in and again lead our offense at which point we have to feel we have a chance anywhere. As you said, there isn't a dominant NFC team.

I'm not saying any of this will be easy. I'm not saying any of this will happen. What I am saying is there's no scenario I've outlined here that is really unrealistic in any way and so I'd certainly prefer to see how things unfold the next few weeks with Hundley and how much healthier we can get coming out of the bye before I write off our chances this year.