The Mike Pettine era may soon be over

[McKnowledge]

If McDaniels was directly part of some of the cheating he has been accused of, I have an issue with that. But people throwing him under the bus for second guessing taking the Indy job, come on, have you ever interviewed with multiple companies for employment?

Have you ever accepted a position for said employment? Hired your staff? Got your office in place? Name on your parking spot? And then left for a lesser position?

Source? Or is this your assumption?

I guess I have read articles that point to the fact that Kraft and Belichick sat down with McDaniels, before he signed a contract with the Colts and convinced him to stay in New England, as they opened up more learning opportunities within the organization for him. I believe there was a pay raise that went with it.

So...aren't the articles you read...sources???

Facts:

-He was named HC
-Andrew Luck was injured
-Jacoby Brissett was backup QB (he worked with Brissett in NE)
-He personally hand picked his staff
-He backed out of committing to Indy
-He forced his way out of Denver

 

[McKnowledge]

Thats supposedly what we have been doing and now were watching other teams in the playoffs with "False Character". Get over it. While your at it go get Nick Perry out of hibernation since he gor paid. Its a joke.

I am over it. Looking forward to next year. I have consistently posted not wanting Nick Perry, let alone giving him a huge deal. He played hard in his contract year. He played GB. He literally played his position on the field and off it.

I don't understand "False Character". Explain that one.

 

[brandon2348]

I am over it. Looking forward to next year. I have consistently posted not wanting Nick Perry, let alone giving him a huge deal. He played hard in his contract year. He played GB. He literally played his position on the field and off it.

I don't understand "False Character". Explain that one.

Because I hear all this character talk all the time and heard Ted Thompson getting up at the podium bantering every year after the draft about how we got "good people" and blah blah blah and its not completely true. I mean there not criminals but many have shown serious "character flaws" and most of the ones with character aren't that great of football players.

The bottom line is we need someone in here that is gonna fish or cut bait and Damials is that guy. Tired of the good old boy program. This is the NFL. Its a business and the job is "Winning". McDanials, like him or not gives us the best chance to salvage the rest of Rodgers career.

 

[McKnowledge]

We need a guy in here that is gonna fish or cut bait and Danials is exactky that guy.


Because I hear all this character talk all the time and heard Ted Thompson getting up at the podium bantering every year after the draft about how we got "good people" and blah blah blah and its not completely true. I mean there not criminals but many have shown serious "character flaws" and most of the ones with character aren't that great of football players.

The bottom line is we need someone in here that is gonna fish or cut bait and Damials is that guy. Tired of the good old boy program. This is the NFL. Its a business and the job is "Winning". McDanials, like him or not gives us the best chance to salvage the rest of Rodgers career.

Appreciate the clarification. Thompson said those things to sell those players to the public. He understood the fan base in Green Bay, especially the old school demo. "Character" over "production". Its sweet when "high character" players posses elite talent, which leads to championships; damn near nirvana. However, championships with great players that have some character flaws is just as great. I'm damn tired of the good ole boy network too, and would love to see some change. Maybe it'll happen sooner than later. A new GM has been a good start. Let's go from there.

I disagree with hiring McDaniels. IMO, I think Rodgers and McDaniels will not get along. At this point in his career, Rodgers needs a collaborator. AR12 motivates himself. The HC is needed to get everyone else in line. Should be an offensive guy. Not too young, but not ancient either. Names that come to mind are Matt LaFleur (with a strong veteran coaching staff), Pete Carmichael, Eric Bienemy (Kansas City), or Jim Caldwell.

However, with Seattle getting knocked out last night, I think Green Bay should go after Darrell Bevell for HC. He was on GB staff during the Favre era. Has clearly had success in Seattle. Able to transition scheme according to personnel. Would revive the run game. Plus, imagine working with a better O-Line in GB than Seattle ever had. I would be interested in Bevell for Green Bay's next HC.

 

[brandon2348]

Appreciate the clarification. Thompson said those things to sell those players to the public. He understood the fan base in Green Bay, especially the old school demo. "Character" over "production". Its sweet when "high character" players posses elite talent, which leads to championships; damn near nirvana. However, championships with great players that have some character flaws is just as great. I'm damn tired of the good ole boy network too, and would love to see some change. Maybe it'll happen sooner than later. A new GM has been a good start. Let's go from there.

I disagree with hiring McDaniels. IMO, I think Rodgers and McDaniels will not get along. At this point in his career, Rodgers needs a collaborator. AR12 motivates himself. The HC is needed to get everyone else in line. Should be an offensive guy. Not too young, but not ancient either. Names that come to mind are Matt LaFleur (with a strong veteran coaching staff), Pete Carmichael, Eric Bienemy (Kansas City), or Jim Caldwell.

However, with Seattle getting knocked out last night, I think Green Bay should go after Darrell Bevell for HC. He was on GB staff during the Favre era. Has clearly had success in Seattle. Able to transition scheme according to personnel. Would revive the run game. Plus, imagine working with a better O-Line in GB than Seattle ever had. I would be interested in Bevell for Green Bay's next HC.

OMG! I'm gonna literally find a bottle and cry if the Packers hire Darrell Bevell as head coach. That would be the final nail in the coffin.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[McKnowledge]

OMG! I'm gonna literally find a bottle and cry if the Packers hire Darrell Bevell as head coach. That would be the final nail in the coffin.

We can agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

 

[Poppa San]

Peoples. How 'bout taking the Josh McD discussion over the the Josh McD thread. And any other HC name over to one of the multiple HC discussions.

 

[Simms87]

Am I the only one who thinks it might be very possible that Roddell is just trolling us with these “insider” stuff?

I mean, even if McDaniels absolutely wanted to be the next Packers HC, why would he tell all these details to far friends from the past? That would make it to the media in a heartbeat if true. Someone would definitely report it to some sports channel.

 

[Poppa San]

Am I the only one who thinks

Around here? Probably. But don't brag about it.

 

[brandon2348]

Well as far as Pettine I don't really care if he comes back or not. If we don't get the right head coach and OC it won't matter anyways

 

[Dantés]

Am I the only one who thinks it might be very possible that Roddell is just trolling us with these “insider” stuff?

I mean, even if McDaniels absolutely wanted to be the next Packers HC, why would he tell all these details to far friends from the past? That would make it to the media in a heartbeat if true. Someone would definitely report it to some sports channel.

I'm sure most posters consider that to be very possible.

 

[Dantés]

Peoples. How 'bout taking the Josh McD discussion over the the Josh McD thread. And any other HC name over to one of the multiple HC discussions.

I heard it through the grapevine that if or when McDaniels is hired? that he doesn’t plan on retaining Pettine. He’s got three guys in mind...2 familiar names most of us know. Steve Spagnuolo, Mike Nolan, and another unfamiliar name? Are on his radar. Makes sense since He’s worked with both those guys in the past I believe and has had a working relationship with them.

I like Pettine, He did a good job with a bunch of Arena league talent and injuries on defense. Now there is an outside chance that he keeps Pettine if Gute and Murphy insist and says he’s part of the pkg...however I don’t believe in making a news coach retain guys. I’d like Pettine to get another year with a healthy defense and a real pass rusher to see if he can duplicate the success he had in New York and Cleveland. We shall see.

My understanding is that this thread was created to talk about McDaniels getting hired and then hiring his own DC.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I am over it. Looking forward to next year. I have consistently posted not wanting Nick Perry, let alone giving him a huge deal. He played hard in his contract year. He played GB. He literally played his position on the field and off it.

I don't understand "False Character". Explain that one.

I'm thinking what he means is HC personality and nice guy isms or whatever maybe shouldn't be a make or break part of whether he is hired. Fans are definitely results driven and I think they would take a HC who has a little bit of a jerk or even abrasive personality if he knows how to get results. Jim Harbaugh, for example would probably fall somewhere in this category.

That isn't to say that a nice guy can't get results. If he's a motivator, a great game planner, and is strictly business when operating he very much can do that. But I think the problem is he feels that people like Thompson and maybe MM (a little) have somewhat used that nice guy persona to sugarcoat not getting results. That is where I believe the essence of false character lies.

 

[McKnowledge]

I'm thinking what he means is HC personality and nice guy isms or whatever maybe shouldn't be a make or break part of whether he is hired. Fans are definitely results driven and I think they would take a HC who has a little bit of a jerk or even abrasive personality if he knows how to get results. Jim Harbaugh, for example would probably fall somewhere in this category.

That isn't to say that a nice guy can't get results. If he's a motivator, a great game planner, and is strictly business when operating he very much can do that. But I think the problem is he feels that people like Thompson and maybe MM (a little) have somewhat used that nice guy persona to sugarcoat not getting results. That is where I believe the essence of false character lies.

I got his explanation a few hours ago and I agreed with his assessment in that regard. Thompson used buzzwords to appease the local Green Bay fan market. IMO. They got away with it for over a decade. Kudos to them. However, everything comes to an end.

 

[rmontro]

And BB is known by many as a "cheater". Whats your point? You want to win or continue playing nice guy?

I wasn't drawing any conclusions, just summing up the arguments for and against.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This guy seems to agree with you. Toub combined with a solid OC and DC would be an interesting option. Sounds like players love him and he has a good solid understanding of all aspects of the game.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/05/dave-toub-kansas-city-chiefs-2018-nfl-coaching-carousel

I quite dislike the idea of having a HC who has only been a special teams coach. From what I can tell he has never even been a position coach. I'm unimpressed by an Assistant HC title which may only be a nice title in line with a nice paycheck.

Offensive coaches know defense, because they scheme and game plan for them. Vice versa on the defensive side of the ball. When things go wrong on the other side of the ball, which they inevitably do, the HC may not be a guru but the right questions need to be asked and answers found. Being merely a "leader" in some charismatic or "players coach" kind of way is not sufficient. Good leaders can get into the weeds when the situation calls for it. I'm not confident a career ST guy can do that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I quite dislike the idea of having a HC who has only been a special teams coach. From what I can tell he has never even been a position coach. I'm unimpressed by an Assistant HC title which may only be a nice title in line with a nice paycheck.

Offensive coaches know defense, because they scheme and game plan for them. Vice versa on the defensive side of the ball. When things go wrong on the other side of the ball, which they inevitably do, the HC may not be a guru but the right questions need to be asked and answers found. Being merely a "leader" in some charismatic or "players coach" kind of way is not sufficient. Good leaders can get into the weeds when the situation calls for it. I'm not confident a career ST guy can do that.

2 months ago I would have agreed with you, but after it looked like MM was on his way out, I started reading more about "who makes a good HC". Why there is no cut and dry formula, I think reading articles like the one below changed my mind a bit about just looking at OC's, DC's and college HC's. One of the key attributes that I think a HC needs to have is being able to work with a lot of players, as well as the other coaches. Special teams coaches have navigated those waters quite a bit more than a guy that has just focused solely on the offense or a defense most of his career. The other thing that is probably somewhat "hidden" in a Special Teams coach is his past. For instance, Dave Toub has only been a Special Teams coach in the NFL, but he was a strength and conditioning coach for 10 years and a D-line coach for 2 years at the college level.

Now if you want a HC that has a great offensive or defensive mind, than maybe you don't look at a Special Teams guy, but if a HC hires a strong OC and DC, aren't they the guys who should be putting in the major hrs. solely to their side of the ball?

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...l-john-harbaugh-bill-cowher-mike-ditka-121615

 

[HardRightEdge]

2 months ago I would have agreed with you, but after it looked like MM was on his way out, I started reading more about "who makes a good HC". Why there is no cut and dry formula, I think reading articles like the one below changed my mind a bit about just looking at OC's, DC's and college HC's. One of the key attributes that I think a HC needs to have is being able to work with a lot of players, as well as the other coaches. Special teams coaches have navigated those waters quite a bit more than a guy that has just focused solely on the offense or a defense most of his career.

Now if you want a HC that has a great offensive or defensive mind, than maybe you don't look at a Special Teams guy, but if a HC hires a strong OC and DC, aren't they the guys who should be putting in the major hrs. solely to their side of the ball?

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...l-john-harbaugh-bill-cowher-mike-ditka-121615

That bolded passage above? That's exactly what I want, as the starting point.

In my experience, the idea a guy can be a strong manager without a strong conceptual grasp of the subject matter is a falacy. Being a people person is not enough. You say he should hire a strong DC and OC, which you would want anybody to do anyway. But a guy with no experience in those disciplines? How is he going to judge potential assitants? How is going to assess their performance after the fact? What does he bring to the table when something goes wrong? What answer would he give to D.J. Swearinger, or somebody else in a less abrasive manner, who has an issue with the coaching?

In short, how does he avoid being a stuffed shirt?

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Im so sick of the "character Issue" thing. It's left us as painfull losers and a mostly empty roster.

I personally, don't want someone who has to cheat to win.

 

[Half Empty]

I think he's demonstrated that he doesn't NEED to.

 

[rmontro]

I think he's demonstrated that he doesn't NEED to.

He just likes to sneak it in if he can?

Honestly, if the front office wants McDaniels, I'm cool with it. I just have a bad feeling he's going to ditch us for Cleveland (although I'm hoping they hire McCarthy instead). Also, what if McDaniels draws things out, waiting on Cleveland (which is supposedly his #1 choice), and we end up missing our #2 and #3 choice (or more)? That's our worst case scenario IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That bolded passage above? That's exactly what I want, as the starting point.

In my experience, the idea a guy can be a strong manager without a strong conceptual grasp of the subject matter is a falacy. Being a people person is not enough. You say he should hire a strong DC and OC, which you would want anybody to do anyway. But a guy with no experience in those disciplines? How is he going to judge potential assitants? How is going to assess their performance after the fact? What does he bring to the table when something goes wrong? What answer would he give to D.J. Swearinger, or somebody else in a less abrasive manner, who has an issue with the coaching?

In short, how does he avoid being a stuffed shirt?

How do you avoid anyone being just a stuffed shirt? Like I said, IMO there really is no clear cut formula on hiring the next successful HC as far as; should he be a great offensive mind, a great defensive mind, a great special teams mind or a combination of all 3? History has proven that all of the above work and don't work.

The point I was trying to make is that thinking that a guy that has spent most of his coaching days as a successful Special Teams coordinator couldn't be a successful HC is potentially missing out on a good candidate. Also, I don't think guys like Dave Toub only football knowledge is that of Special Teams.

What makes for a good GM? An Owner? I know a guy that runs a very successful Auto Shop. He was an ok mechanic for several years, but saw an opportunity to buy and run a very poorly managed and under utilized shop and now its thriving. Why? Because he knew the inner workings of the shop, the employees, the customer base and had a great business plan to make it all work.

Personally, I would sacrifice a brilliant offensive or defensive minded HC for one that knew how to best utilize all the people working underneath him as well as above him. A guy that effectively let his OC and DC do what they do best, while he remained the bridge between coaches, players and in this case, Gute, Murphy and Scouts.

 

[brandon2348]

I personally, don't want someone who has to cheat to win.

I never said anything about blatant cheating. The reality is the reffs are blowing calls all over the field and other teams are diligently teaching there players how to get away with holds and illegal contacts. We must get more innovative with our approach or were gonna get left in the dust.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Like I said, IMO there really is no clear cut formula on hiring the next successful HC as far as; should he be a great offensive mind, a great defensive mind, a great special teams mind or a combination of all 3? History has proven that all of the above work and don't work.

Here is Taub's coaching history:

• University of Texas at El Paso (1986)
  Graduate assistant
• University of Texas at El Paso (1987–1988)
  Strength and conditioning coach
• University of Missouri (1989–1997)
  Strength and conditioning coach
• University of Missouri (1998–2000)
  Defensive line coach
• Philadelphia Eagles (2001–2003)
  Special teams/quality control coach
• Chicago Bears (2004–2012)
  Special teams coordinator
• Kansas City Chiefs (2013–2017)
  Special teams coordinator
• Kansas City Chiefs (2018–present)
  Assistant head coach & special teams coordinator

His only coaching experience on either side of the ball was defensive line coach at Missouri 20 years ago. Tell me the history that shows a guy who has been exclusively a ST coach for all intents and purposes became a successful head coach?

How do you avoid a stuffed shirt? You significantly improve your odds with subject matter experience.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here is Taub's coaching history:

• University of Texas at El Paso (1986)
  Graduate assistant
• University of Texas at El Paso (1987–1988)
  Strength and conditioning coach
• University of Missouri (1989–1997)
  Strength and conditioning coach
• University of Missouri (1998–2000)
  Defensive line coach
• Philadelphia Eagles (2001–2003)
  Special teams/quality control coach
• Chicago Bears (2004–2012)
  Special teams coordinator
• Kansas City Chiefs (2013–2017)
  Special teams coordinator
• Kansas City Chiefs (2018–present)
  Assistant head coach & special teams coordinator

His only coaching experience on either side of the ball was defensive line coach at Missouri 20 years ago. Tell me the history that shows a guy who has been exclusively a ST coach for all intents and purposes became a successful head coach?

How do you avoid a stuffed shirt? You significantly improve your odds with subject matter experience.

John Harbaugh, Marv Levy and **** Vermeil. Even coaches like Bill Cowher and Bill Belichick cut their way to a HC job by being Special Teams coaches. Mike Ditka basically went from being an Assistant coach in Dallas for 9 years right to HC in Chicago.

Like I keep saying, there is no clear cut formula, but IMO a guy like Toub shouldn't be overlooked just because "he has spent the majority of his coaching years as a special teams coach."

Bruce Arians seems to even agree:

Arizona Cardinals head coach Bruce Arians is convinced of the same. He is well aware of the daunting challenges that special-teams coaches face on a weekly basis in trying to mix and match personnel for coverage and return units when injuries and roster moves made to address more pressing offensive and defensive needs dictate the players at their disposal.

"When you talk about the special-teams guy, he’s in front of the entire team," Arians said. "He’s not like a quarterback coach or coordinator who only has half the team. He’s got the entire team and in a very big setting as far as classroom work.

"They’re probably as adept at addressing a football team as anybody."