The Jordan Love Thread

[Voyageur]

Ok. Let's play out your scenario and let's lock down that QB 2 years later.
In that case we now need a franchise QB starting this season to groom for the next several years.
Which QB would you have selected in the 2022 draft and what reasonable draft capital would you have used to get that QB as the successor to #12??

With a lack of talent at the quarterback position in this year's draft it would have been smart to wait until next year to think about drafting Rodgers' successor.

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We won't be getting anyone decent in the draft unless we pick in the top 3 or 4. Young, Stroud, Richardson, Ward? Beyond that?

Not even certain about any of these guys to be honest. That's not a talent laden list, is it?

 

[gopkrs]

MVP votes is a curious metric to evaluate a player as over the past 10 years only 20 players received a vote.

Is it your contention that Rodgers was not missing a beat those two years?

 

[OldSchool101]

Don't know why you brought up Franklin. He might have been a player. He got hurt and never had much of a chance.

We don't know what is going to happen in the draft by choosing a different player altogether. It could turn into a Vince Biegel debacle and that's why I included a player who was injured earlier in his career

With a lack of talent at the quarterback position in this year's draft it would have been smart to wait until next year to think about drafting Rodgers' successor.

Thank You. Thats exactly my point. Unfortunately, in real life, (as it is in this league also) you better have a better strategy as a GM than thinking about waiting into the future. I would argue your plan to have no plan is far worse than having Jordan Love being groomed.

 

[OldSchool101]

With a lack of talent at the quarterback position in this year's draft it would have been smart to wait until next year to think about drafting Rodgers' successor.

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We won't be getting anyone decent in the draft unless we pick in the top 3 or 4. Young, Stroud, Richardson, Ward? Beyond that?

Not even certain about any of these guys to be honest. That's not a talent laden list, is it?

No and I wholeheartedly agree. That is exactly why a GM does not get complacent and wait until you've had a season without any options at QB (2022) and followed up with a season that all the good QB are gone inside the top 10 (in the business world we call it getting caught with your pants down) Do we have any idea what it would take to trade a #32 selection (wink wink) for a say... #5 overall draft pick?? Expect to part with multiple future Day 1-2 selections and it will make a #26 overall (Jordan Love's cost) look like a small Turd. No thanks!

I would rather take my chances with a high ceiling QB that is raw and relatively cheap and get him groomed early, if he (Love) plays for 1-2 seasons and you tank?? So be it! Now you have a top 10 selection. IF he doesn't tank then you have a QB that's primed, plus you keep all your future draft picks. If your current QB plays like an MVP for 5 season? Fantastic! So we wasted a #26 but got MVP every season until we are 41 years old. Then I'm doing it all over again

Also consider that after a year with a poor QB class (2022) will the demand in 2023 be higher or lower at QB?? Mark my words. It's going to be a frenzy for those top 3-4 prospects and probably worse than WR group this season because you have basically 2 consecutive drafts with just 4-5 combined Day 1 QB prospects and 1 is already gone

 

[Voyageur]

Is it your contention that Rodgers was not missing a beat those two years?

Factor in that Rodgers was playing injured during both of those years. His mechanics had gotten so bad that it appears he'd lost his touch. What I may have considered differently than most people is that Rodgers has always been a student of the game, and the same way he learned, and improved on his mechanics when he came into the league led to his success. I figured he'd be more than willing to spend an entire off season quietly working on them, to get back where he felt he should be. He did exactly that.

Nobody should be faulted by not seeing that he could regain his form. There was always the chance that he'd never return to his previous level of play. I've seen it in QBs, and if you want a baseball analogy, even more often with pitchers in Major League Baseball. A slight change in mechanics, and everything you've been doing successfully for years disappears, as if flushed down the drain.

The problem is, people need to see that what he has done over the last two years is really pretty darned good. You don't win two MVP awards, which is a distinction that comes from people who watch the game very closely, and vote appropriately. As for Rodgers winning it this past year, he did so despite the fact that a heck of a lot of the voters thought he didn't deserve it for reasons outside of football, and voted accordingly, for Brady it seems. An example would be Arkush, who would have voted for Love, over Rodgers, if he had to choose between them. How many others felt like him, I don't know, but Rodgers even exacerbated that problem by calling Arkush a bum! Not smart, if you're looking for votes. Still.... he won the award.

I see something driving Rodgers. He has 4 MVP awards. Only Peyton Manning is out there, with 5. I think Rodgers wants that 5th, and would stay two more years to get it, if possible. If he got it this year, he'd probably stay through '23, if they wanted him, to try to get his 6th. He wants to ride off into the sunset with the personal awards, since the Super Bowl championships have eluded him.

Anyhow, that's my opinion.

 

[Schultz]

Gutekunst should be held accountable for making the mistake of believing Rodgers was regressing though.



MVP votes is a curious metric to evaluate a player as over the past 10 years only 20 players received a vote.



Although all of the players you mentioned ended up being busts for the Packers they had more impact than Love will most likely have over the course of his rookie season. In addition, there was no way of knowing with either of the ones you brought up but there was with Love though.



I would definitely prefer every rookie to have an immediate impact. I understand that's not how it works for most of them.



They should have gotten better production out of a first round pick entering his third season.



That's pure speculation on your part now. In addition it's pretty telling that's all you can come up justifying Love's selection in the first place.



With a lack of talent at the quarterback position in this year's draft it would have been smart to wait until next year to think about drafting Rodgers' successor.

What if they drafted Henry Ruggs and he was giving Aaron Rodgers a ride?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We won't be getting anyone decent in the draft unless we pick in the top 3 or 4. Young, Stroud, Richardson, Ward? Beyond that?

Not even certain about any of these guys to be honest. That's not a talent laden list, is it?

It's hilarious how many of you act as if trading up for Love in the 2020 was the only chance to find a decent successor for Rodgers and if the Packers hadn't made that move they would be screwed for the next decades.

Is it your contention that Rodgers was not missing a beat those two years?

There's no doubt Rodgers didn't perform at an elite level in the two seasons leading up to the Packers selecting Love. But, the reasons for it were a stale scheme in McCarthy's last season as well as Rodgers getting used to MLF's system in the first year of him being the head coach.

We don't know what is going to happen in the draft by choosing a different player altogether. It could turn into a Vince Biegel debacle and that's why I included a player who was injured earlier in his career

There's no point of comparing a player that could have been drafted at the end of the first to two fourth rounders. The chances would have been significantly better to select an impact player at #30.

Unfortunately, in real life, (as it is in this league also) you better have a better strategy as a GM than thinking about waiting into the future. I would argue your plan to have no plan is far worse than having Jordan Love being groomed.

It's ridiculous to suggest that I wouldn't have had a plan just because I don't agree with the one Gutekunst went with. Actually, with the first season after Rodgers moves on most likely being a rebuilding season anyway (mostly because of a huge amount of dead money counting against the cap) I would have been fine with the Packers trying to find his successor after him not being on the team as well.

They should have gone all-in to try to win another Super Bowl while he's around.

No and I wholeheartedly agree. That is exactly why a GM does not get complacent and wait until you've had a season without any options at QB (2022) and followed up with a season that all the good QB are gone inside the top 10 (in the business world we call it getting caught with your pants down) Do we have any idea what it would take to trade a #32 selection (wink wink) for a say... #5 overall draft pick?? Expect to part with multiple future Day 1-2 selections and it will make a #26 overall (Jordan Love's cost) look like a small Turd. No thanks!

I would rather take my chances with a high ceiling QB that is raw and relatively cheap and get him groomed early, if he (Love) plays for 1-2 seasons and you tank?? So be it! Now you have a top 10 selection.

The Packers could have tanked the season after Rodgers moved on to get that top 10 selection as well. In the meantime a different player selected at the end of the first round would have most likely improved their chances of winning another Super Bowl.

If your current QB plays like an MVP for 5 season? Fantastic! So we wasted a #26 but got MVP every season until we are 41 years old. Then I'm doing it all over again

The main goal is to win a Super Bowl and not having a quarterback performing at an MVP level though.

Nobody should be faulted by not seeing that he could regain his form.

I vehemently disagree with that statement, Gutekunst definitely should be held accountable for it.

What if they drafted Henry Ruggs and he was giving Aaron Rodgers a ride?

I understand there are no guarantees selecting a different player at #30 in the 2020 draft would have worked out. But it's extremely realistic to guess that any other player would have had a more positive impact on the team in the past two years than Love.

As a side note, Ruggs was lone gone when the Packers were on the clock.

 

[Voyageur]

I never indicated that the pick was good or bad in my statement about Love's pick. I was indicating that the QBs who are pretty much "can't miss" are gone in the top two or three picks.

I do agree that a person could say Gutekunst blew it on the Love pick, because he "could have" felt in his mind, that Rodgers would return to form. But, I can't fault fans, who are just privy to what they see, not realizing he would.

The fact is that if Love had shown at this point that he was going to be every bit as good as Favre and or Rodgers, people would have been jumping for joy, and calling Gute a genius.

It's all about perceptions at the time the decision is made, and to Gute, like it or not, his perception was that Love was the future, and he made the decision.

​

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was indicating that the QBs who are pretty much "can't miss" are gone in the top two or three picks.

In my opinion there aren't any can't miss picks, even at the top of the first round. Just take a look at some of the quarterbacks selected over the past few years.

I do agree that a person could say Gutekunst blew it on the Love pick, because he "could have" felt in his mind, that Rodgers would return to form. But, I can't fault fans, who are just privy to what they see, not realizing he would.

Agreed, but I don't care about fans being wrong about something.

The fact is that if Love had shown at this point that he was going to be every bit as good as Favre and or Rodgers, people would have been jumping for joy, and calling Gute a genius.

It's all about perceptions at the time the decision is made, and to Gute, like it or not, his perception was that Love was the future, and he made the decision.

I'm fully aware that Gutekunst thought Rodgers was in decline and that Love was a steal at the end of the first round. My point is that he should be held accountable for misevaluating the situation.

 

[Mondio]

how are you going to hold him accountable? dock his pay? fire him? public lashing? It wasn't the best decision, but he's also made a lot of good ones IMO. Even this year. I was pretty sure we were done. Big names leaving, contracts ballooning, stars aging and he again was masterful in the offseason with some good restructures, restock in draft, bargain FA's that really have potential to fill big shoes, trimmed some fat, etc. He's a fine GM. he holds himself to a higher standard than I could, i'm just going to let him do his job.

 

[Voyageur]

In my opinion there aren't any can't miss picks, even at the top of the first round. Just take a look at some of the quarterbacks selected over the past few years.



Agreed, but I don't care about fans being wrong about something.



I'm fully aware that Gutekunst thought Rodgers was in decline and that Love was a steal at the end of the first round. My point is that he should be held accountable for misevaluating the situation.

Sorry! I think the top picks in a draft are more likely to succeed than someone taken later. I won't even argue that point.

I agree on fans. We can all carry our own opinion. You and I do, sometimes disagreeing.

I thought Gute blundered taking Love. But, you and I have opinions, the Packers staff, including the coaching staff obviously thought differently. By and large, I think he's done a decent job filling uniforms.

 

[sschind]

But, the reasons for it were a stale scheme in McCarthy's last season as well as Rodgers getting used to MLF's system in the first year of him being the head coach.

Which became clear AFTER he rebounded to produce 2 MVP seasons or even 1. Prior to that it was simply a possibility that he was not actually on his way down. It was not a known entity as you like to pretend it was even though you claim to have KNOWN the real reason.

I'm sure Gute was aware of that possibility but a GM has to prepare for all possibilities the best he can. He could have decided the previous two seasons were flukes and drafted a WR. Or he could have decided they were not flukes and he went out and got the guy he thought would be the answer. If they were not flukes the WR may not have helped anyway and he would have missed out on his guy. He made his choice and the ensuing couple of seasons have shown that it was the wrong one.

Yes he needs to be held accountable for that decision. He was wrong about Rodgers being on his way down. However, that poor decision is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the facts were on his side at least to some degree. You said yourself ARs performance was down.

On the whole I think Gute has done a great job building a solid team. Rodger's is a huge part of that obviously but we also seem to have blue chip players at multiple positions that we haven't had in a long time. In the past we needed AR to be AR to win. I don't think that is so much the case now. He did whiff on the Aaron Rodgers/Jordan Love situation but in the long run I don't know if it has hurt that much.

 

[longtimefan]

Which became clear AFTER he rebounded to produce 2 MVP seasons or even 1. Prior to that it was simply a possibility that he was not actually on his way down. It was not a known entity as you like to pretend it was even though you claim to have KNOWN the real reason.

I'm sure Gute was aware of that possibility but a GM has to prepare for all possibilities the best he can. He could have decided the previous two seasons were flukes and drafted a WR. Or he could have decided they were not flukes and he went out and got the guy he thought would be the answer. If they were not flukes the WR may not have helped anyway and he would have missed out on his guy. He made his choice and the ensuing couple of seasons have shown that it was the wrong one.

Yes he needs to be held accountable for that decision. He was wrong about Rodgers being on his way down. However, that poor decision is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the facts were on his side at least to some degree. You said yourself ARs performance was down.

On the whole I think Gute has done a great job building a solid team. Rodger's is a huge part of that obviously but we also seem to have blue chip players at multiple positions that we haven't had in a long time. In the past we needed AR to be AR to win. I don't think that is so much the case now. He did whiff on the Aaron Rodgers/Jordan Love situation but in the long run I don't know if it has hurt that much.

Why is it solely Gute felt rodgers was declining.

I still think they had a notion that Rodgers was hinting at asking for a trade, considering retiring or holding out.

So Gute felt a decline for 2 years, a possible rift happening ( which we now know) and what would become of it. They didnt want it to end up like Farve and then have no real back up

So
1- slight decline 2 years in a row
2- scared of future and him.

We better take love now

 

[OldSchool101]

There's no point of comparing a player that could have been drafted at the end of the first to two fourth rounders. The chances would have been significantly better to select an impact player at #30.

?? A Day 1 draft pick does not play any better injured than a UDFA that's injured as neither one would be on the field to begin with, so that really does not equate

 

[Poppa San]

There's no doubt Rodgers didn't perform at an elite level in the two seasons leading up to the Packers selecting Love. But, the reasons for it were a stale scheme in McCarthy's last season as well as Rodgers getting used to MLF's system in the first year of him being the head coach.

I'm not sold that a skip pass on a checkdown can be blamed on a stale or new offense. Those two seasons, AR12 had several subpar passes that I'd expect a D2 QB to make in their games today.

 

[OldSchool101]

We are all obviously fixed on our position about Love right now. I don't think much will change unless Love sees regular season play against starter and performs or spirals (no pun).

That said, as of this moment, do you guys think we will trade Love sometime next season (or this offseason) or offer him maybe a lower priced contract to stay a couple seasons? OR will Love himself want to leave to a team where he has a chance to compete for starter? What's your guess?

 

[Schultz]

Captain. Do you feel MLF was all in on the Love pick? Could it be Rodgers struggled in the MLF system that 1st year because he fought it a little bit and MLF wasn't sure he could get him to totally buy in?

 

[longtimefan]

I'm not sold that a skip pass on a checkdown can be blamed on a stale or new offense. Those two seasons, AR12 had several subpar passes that I'd expect a D2 QB to make in their games today.

Ty

People forgot he had accuracy issies on ck downs

 

[OldSchool101]

Ty

People forgot he had accuracy issies on ck downs

Wasn't that the year he was just throwing passes out of bounds? Oh here it is..

Aaron Rodgers set to shatter PFF's throwaway record | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF Analyst Ben Linsey digs through the PFF history books and explains why Packers' QB Aaron Rodgers is on track to shatter PFF's throwaway record.

www.pff.com

Once again, we had Davante Adams in 2018 as an easy WR1 and Cobb only played 1/2 the season.
We had Geronimo Allison, Jake Kumerow, and Rookies Moore, MVS, EQ and Lazard
What a cluster!

 

[Mondio]

I know he went from the Barr induced injury to a knee injury over 2 seasons as well. Lots going on besides a new coach

 

[sschind]

Why is it solely Gute felt rodgers was declining.

I still think they had a notion that Rodgers was hinting at asking for a trade, considering retiring or holding out.

So Gute felt a decline for 2 years, a possible rift happening ( which we now know) and what would become of it. They didnt want it to end up like Farve and then have no real back up

So
1- slight decline 2 years in a row
2- scared of future and him.

We better take love now

Yes, there is that as well. Another factor in his his decision to choose Love. I think most people focus on his performance because that is the most obvious for most players and any rift was fairly small at teh time. I'll be honest and say I was not aware of anything as all seemed well. Retirement may have been considered given the injuries despite his previous comments on playing into his 40's

 

[Deleted member 6794]

how are you going to hold him accountable?

I should have phrased it differently. As I have mentioned repeatedly Gutekunst has done a great job aside of spending that first rounder on Love. Fans shouldn't ignore it when evaluating his overall work though.

Sorry! I think the top picks in a draft are more likely to succeed than someone taken later. I won't even argue that point.

There's absolutely no doubt you're right about that. But there aren't any guarantees a can't miss prospect taken within the first few picks actually performs up to expectations (see Darnold being picked before Allen or Trubisky ahead of Mahomes).

Which became clear AFTER he rebounded to produce 2 MVP seasons or even 1. Prior to that it was simply a possibility that he was not actually on his way down. It was not a known entity as you like to pretend it was even though you claim to have KNOWN the real reason.

I'm sure Gute was aware of that possibility but a GM has to prepare for all possibilities the best he can. He could have decided the previous two seasons were flukes and drafted a WR. Or he could have decided they were not flukes and he went out and got the guy he thought would be the answer. If they were not flukes the WR may not have helped anyway and he would have missed out on his guy. He made his choice and the ensuing couple of seasons have shown that it was the wrong one.

Yes he needs to be held accountable for that decision. He was wrong about Rodgers being on his way down. However, that poor decision is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the facts were on his side at least to some degree. You said yourself ARs performance was down.

Most Packers fans defending the selection of Love as if the Packers struggled during the season leading up to the 2020 draft when in reality they won 13 games and made it to the NFCCG.

Even if Rodgers wouldn't have been able to rebound to perform at an MVP level the team would have benefitted much more by adding a player who actually receives playing time.

?? A Day 1 draft pick does not play any better injured than a UDFA that's injured as neither one would be on the field to begin with, so that really does not equate

My bad, didn't realize you were talking about injuries in your previous post.

I'm not sold that a skip pass on a checkdown can be blamed on a stale or new offense. Those two seasons, AR12 had several subpar passes that I'd expect a D2 QB to make in their games today.

That happens with every quarterback around the league. In my opinion the main reasons for Rodgers' struggles were the ones outlined in my previous post.

That said, as of this moment, do you guys think we will trade Love sometime next season (or this offseason) or offer him maybe a lower priced contract to stay a couple seasons? OR will Love himself want to leave to a team where he has a chance to compete for starter? What's your guess?

I guess Love wouldn't be interested in backing up Rodgers after his rookie deal has expired. If he doesn't play any significant snaps this season I expect the Packers to hold on to him for the 2023 season as well as his trade value would be minimal.

Captain. Do you feel MLF was all in on the Love pick? Could it be Rodgers struggled in the MLF system that 1st year because he fought it a little bit and MLF wasn't sure he could get him to totally buy in?

I have absolutely no idea.

Wasn't that the year he was just throwing passes out of bounds? Oh here it is..

True, Rodgers threw away more passes in 2018 and '19 than at any point in his career.

Yes, there is that as well. Another factor in his his decision to choose Love. I think most people focus on his performance because that is the most obvious for most players and any rift was fairly small at teh time. I'll be honest and say I was not aware of anything as all seemed well. Retirement may have been considered given the injuries despite his previous comments on playing into his 40's

Rodgers never mentioned a desire to retire or be traded before Love was drafted.

 

[Voyageur]

CaptainWIMM brings up an important point. Rodgers had talked about playing until he was 40, and had no retirement talks, until the Packers drafted Love. If you're looking for the trigger point of the events, that's obviously where it started.

Which also points out something else. Rodgers was the guy taken to "replace Favre." I realize Favre was hinting about retiring, but I don't think that's what was in Rodgers' mind when he went off on Gute and management, after the Love pick. I think he saw it as the Packers front office deciding to move on, and throw him to the curb, as soon as possible. He'd essentially be a lame duck QB until Love was trained.

I'm just suggesting how the psyche could have worked. But it does make sense.

 

[longtimefan]

CaptainWIMM brings up an important point. Rodgers had talked about playing until he was 40, and had no retirement talks, until the Packers drafted Love. If you're looking for the trigger point of the events, that's obviously where it started.

Which also points out something else. Rodgers was the guy taken to "replace Favre." I realize Favre was hinting about retiring, but I don't think that's what was in Rodgers' mind when he went off on Gute and management, after the Love pick. I think he saw it as the Packers front office deciding to move on, and throw him to the curb, as soon as possible. He'd essentially be a lame duck QB until Love was trained.

I'm just suggesting how the psyche could have worked. But it does make sense.

Aaron Rodgers says he thinks about retirement “all the time”

While participating in one of the most popular retirement activities in the world, Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers once again mused about his own retirement. “I think about it all the time,…

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Rodgers considered retiring after the 2020 season and again after 2021. His new contract gives him the flexibility to walk away whenever he wants.
He claims that, last year, he entered the weekend before the start of training camp 50-50 on whether to play. What if that happens to him again? What if he decides between now and late July that he just doesn’t want to do it anymore?


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I take after 2020 season was before love was drafted

I could be wrong?


He hinted playing until.40 about 2017.

Cpuld have changed his.mind with the issues with management

 

[swhitset]

Saw this on fb

Why do we keep beating a dead horse. Rodgers is the qb this year. Packers are trying to develop Love. It is what it is and when the time comes the packers will make a decision on who the qb will be by how good said player plays. Just like every position

common sense.