The Jordan Love Thread

[gopkrs]

The situation was completely different when TT selected Rodgers.

Favre had hinted at retirement for years, Rodgers was widely considered a potential #1 overall pick and the Packers found themselves in a rebuilding mode.

I remember Favre being very upset at the time. And he did play for several more years both with The Pack and without. So I don't see it as a lot different. They wanted a QB of the future in both cases. And Rodgers sitting for awhile probably did more good than harm for him and The Packers.

 

[OldSchool101]

If we really are honest with ourselves (verses each of our Phari-critical position on wanting a WR, including myself) I believe there is no denying that Rodgers just came off a couple of down seasons. He had also been injured and he was North of 35 years old.
Even if there was no turmoil between parties (which we found out later there was) a GM would be acting in blindness to ignore a contingency plan at QB, at least at some level) Add to that a young GM (we all know a young GM’s ultimate move is to hire the next franchise QB) and I’m actually surprised more of us didn’t see it coming. It just shows me how we are not as good as we think about forecasting moves like this.

But looking back at it, I could see us having QB as a top 3 need Day 1. If you wait until outside a top 50 overall? Your hit rate at franchise QB is extremely low.

 

[Raleigh NC Packers Fan]

I do think a lot of criticism and hate towards Love is really unfair. I don't think we will know if he is good or not until he has had at least 1 full season under his belt. Even then, it would be more about him improving and showing/eventually reaching his potential as the season goes along than his record as a starter.

With that being said, as far as what I think of the pick, unless Rodgers retires after this season, it is looking like the pick was made way too soon. There should have been much better communication between Rodgers and Gute about when Rodgers thinks he may retire.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Most teams aren't in rebuilding mode after back to back 10-6 seasons and playing in the playoffs. So perhaps you can tell me why there were so many Packers fans that were complaining about them choosing a QB in the 1st round when they already had a future HOF QB playing.

The Packers were over the salary cap when Thompson took over in 2005 resulting in him having to move on from Rivera, Sharper and Wahle. The fact that team finished the season 4-12 should tell you everything you need to know about if the Packers were in a rebuilding mode that year.

I'm sorry but I can't tell you why other fans were upset about the selection of Rodgers, you would have to ask them about it.

Love was considered by at least some to have the best arm and leg abilities of any QB in the 20 draft. Are you saying now (and at in April 2020) that this is untrue?
Can you explain to me why many Packer fans felt that in April 2020, they had already seen Rodgers best playing days?

There wasn't a single person considering Love a potential #1 overall pick before the 2020 draft. Once again, if you want to know what other people think you need to ask them.

Gutekunst spoke to Rodgers in February 2020 about the possibility of drafting a QB so clearly the scouts and Gutekunst had already targeted at least one guy they liked.

Gutekunst admitted last year that he should have handled the situation significantly better.

I remember Favre being very upset at the time. And he did play for several more years both with The Pack and without. So I don't see it as a lot different.

The difference being that Favre had hinted at retirement for several years while Rodgers was pretty adamant about wanting to play for the Packers into his 40s.

Even if there was no turmoil between parties (which we found out later there was) a GM would be acting in blindness to ignore a contingency plan at QB, at least at some level)

Once again, there as no turmoil between Rodgers and the Packers before Love was drafted.

I do think a lot of criticism and hate towards Love is really unfair.

While a lot of fans claim differently there's no hate towards Love at all. I'm pretty outspoken about not having liked the pick but I definitely want him to succeed.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Ok. But Odds are stacked against any QB if you really look at it. Fir every Justin Herbert or Pat Mahommes you’ve got 5 other Deshone Kizer who don’t see a long career.
The hit rate does get better by draft position, but even quite a few top 20 QB selections spiral out of the league.

But to be fair, the Jets and the Browns account for wrecking 99% of those QB's.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'll just end my Love conversation by saying that passing over a BPA in the draft can have dire long term consequences. Minnesota, Chicago and Detroit et al. could attest to this notion.

 

[OldSchool101]

Once again, there as no turmoil between Rodgers and the Packers before Love was drafted.

Then why did Rodgers bring up in complaints about our FO cutting loose his QB coach, Letting Jordy go, letting Cobb go and cutting Caveman the day after he publicly praised him? Heck he just said a few days ago that Kumerow was his 3rd best WR when he got released.
Did all that happen after Jordan Love was drafted??
Rodgers himself has eluded to these and other decisions which resulted from poor communication between parties and he’s fully aware of low draft resources used on Offense going back years. You think he was scared of Jordan?? That was just the straw that broke the camel. This tension was brewing for YEARS and it was a culmination long before Jordan Love was in GB.
As usual, Mostly resulting from poor communication (both parties).

You don’t polish off a bottle of Scotch alone without a proper level of sorrows. You know he had the bottle handy for good reason!

 

[tynimiller]

Once again, there as no turmoil between Rodgers and the Packers before Love was drafted.

Suppose depends on your definition of turmoil, however both sides have indicated there were relationship issues present. That isn't even up for debate really.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I remember Favre being very upset at the time. And he did play for several more years both with The Pack and without. So I don't see it as a lot different. They wanted a QB of the future in both cases. And Rodgers sitting for awhile probably did more good than harm for him and The Packers.

Threatening to retire for multiple seasons and NOT threatening to retire for multiple seasons are actually very different. The Packers legitimately didn't know if Favre was done and they therefore needed someone, who FELL REALLY FAR to them in the draft, to potentially start the next season. The two circumstances are vastly different.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Then why did Rodgers bring up in complaints about our FO cutting loose his QB coach, Letting Jordy go, letting Cobb go and cutting Caveman the day after he publicly praised him? Heck he just said a few days ago that Kumerow was his 3rd best WR when he got released.
Did all that happen after Jordan Love was drafted??
Rodgers himself has eluded to these and other decisions which resulted from poor communication between parties and he’s fully aware of low draft resources used on Offense going back years. You think he was scared of Jordan?? That was just the straw that broke the camel. This tension was brewing for YEARS and it was a culmination long before Jordan Love was in GB.
As usual, Mostly resulting from poor communication (both parties).

You don’t polish off a bottle of Scotch alone without a proper level of sorrows. You know he had the bottle handy for good reason!

Because he didn't like how the FO was behaving relative to how his former FO acted? That doesn't mean you give up the job you've dreamed of your entire life. This argument, that he was unhappy, would make sense if you thought Rodgers was demanding a trade; but outside of the Lions, I can't think of any franchise FO that has actually run off a star player in the midst of their career (Lions did it TWICE!!!).

 

[gopkrs]

Threatening to retire for multiple seasons and NOT threatening to retire for multiple seasons are actually very different.

For me the important fact is that both are/were getting long in the tooth. All the rest he said you said crap is soap opera media junk. Rodgers sat and now Love is sitting. We thought we had a shot and we took it. Better than just sticking with Benkert or ??? and then suddenly realize that Hey we need a QB now. You and Capt Wimm think differently than I do. You both figure we might have won a super bowl. Who knows. I think we did the logical thing. Even though you have gone through it with both Favre and Rodgers; you guys still don't get how fleeting one super bowl is.

 

[PackAttack12]

What do you think Rodgers did?

That's exactly his point. How many did what Rodgers did to half way reasonably expect history to repeat itself?

Actually, if you go back and read enough scouting reports, Love was highly regarded by some. Interesting that you don't see the similarities between the Favre situation, especially given that twice in the last 15 or so months, Rodgers has talked about retiring or forcing a trade.

I mean I get it, people that hated the pick when it happened, myself included, can continue to stay in their lane with blinders on and pretend that it was a pick that absolutely had no merit and Rodgers play since, is confirmation of that.

I eish all football decisions were that easy to decipher.

Actually, the Favre and Rodgers respective situations were quite opposite from each other no matter how badly some Packers fans want to insinuate they were similar.

To understand this selection, you really need to go back 2 years and look at what the scouts saw. They saw a high potential college Junior that was raw but needed time. Each player is picked for different reasons. I won’t pretend to answer why GB took a QB because I don’t have inside details. However what I do know is they had absolutely, positively ZERO expectation of Jordan starting before about YEAR 3 range, because he was more project with potential than production with experience. To be fair Jordan is beginning his 2nd Live season and gets a + for (rookie) playbook and paper study in 2020. He lost a year of college -1. He at best gets 1/2 season credit for Covid 2020. + season. He’s the equivalent of a early Sophomore with + playbook. One could argue he gets negated a season as a College Junior.

QB that are high college production and are 4 year starters in an FBS program with ascending results don’t last until #26 or beyond. Late Day 1 is an area you might get a great upside QB that needs to be groomed. That’s Jordan love to a T. Anyone who was “hard grading” him last year in his first official season was way way premature or just didn’t do their homework etc..

Pipelining is the word that comes to mind.

Such a long post, yet didn't address the question presented to you at all.

 

[PackAttack12]

I'll just end my Love conversation by saying that passing over a BPA in the draft can have dire long term consequences. Minnesota, Chicago and Detroit et al. could attest to this notion.

If the Packers felt Love was the BPA, then they should be held accountable for their error in assessing the draft and the players that were truly available. Especially when you take into account that your current quarterback is a no doubt 1st ballot hall of famer coming off an NFCCG appearance.

 

[longtimefan]

If the Packers felt Love was the BPA, then they should be held accountable for their error in assessing the draft and the players that were truly available. Especially when you take into account that your current quarterback is a no doubt 1st ballot hall of famer coming off an NFCCG appearance.

Think he meant packers passed on their bpa . Then says the other nfcn teams take bpa and it never helped

That's my reasoning behind his statement

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Then why did Rodgers bring up in complaints about our FO cutting loose his QB coach, Letting Jordy go, letting Cobb go and cutting Caveman the day after he publicly praised him? Heck he just said a few days ago that Kumerow was his 3rd best WR when he got released.
Did all that happen after Jordan Love was drafted??
Rodgers himself has eluded to these and other decisions which resulted from poor communication between parties and he’s fully aware of low draft resources used on Offense going back years. You think he was scared of Jordan?? That was just the straw that broke the camel. This tension was brewing for YEARS and it was a culmination long before Jordan Love was in GB.
As usual, Mostly resulting from poor communication (both parties).

You're confusing not agreeing with every decision made by the front office with there being turmoil ongoing for several years. Gutekunst was only in charge for two years at the time he selected Love.

Suppose depends on your definition of turmoil, however both sides have indicated there were relationship issues present. That isn't even up for debate really.

I highly doubt that to be true as Gutekunst didn't take over as general manager until 2018. If he truly ruined the relationship to his franchise quarterback in less than two years.

For me the important fact is that both are/were getting long in the tooth. All the rest he said you said crap is soap opera media junk. Rodgers sat and now Love is sitting. We thought we had a shot and we took it. Better than just sticking with Benkert or ??? and then suddenly realize that Hey we need a QB now. You and Capt Wimm think differently than I do. You both figure we might have won a super bowl. Who knows. I think we did the logical thing. Even though you have gone through it with both Favre and Rodgers; you guys still don't get how fleeting one super bowl is.

Winning a Super Bowl should still be considered the ultimate goal, especially when having a HOF quarterback starting. Gutekunst using a first rounder on his backup too early for him to be considered as a legit successor didn't help that at all.

 

[tynimiller]

You're confusing not agreeing with every decision made by the front office with there being turmoil ongoing for several years. Gutekunst was only in charge for two years at the time he selected Love.



I highly doubt that to be true as Gutekunst didn't take over as general manager until 2018. If he truly ruined the relationship to his franchise quarterback in less than two years.



Winning a Super Bowl should still be considered the ultimate goal, especially when having a HOF quarterback starting. Gutekunst using a first rounder on his backup too early for him to be considered as a legit successor didn't help that at all.

Ruined is a term typically reserved for something which is done, over and cannot be fixed. Shoot my marriage is strong and amazing with my wife, but we've had a moment where the term turmoil would be appropriate, and wasn't the best. That's all anyone is saying.

 

[PikeBadger]

Think he meant packers passed on their bpa . Then says the other nfcn teams take bpa and it never helped

That's my reasoning behind his statement

My post was in reference to the drafting of both Rodgers and Love. I do believe that both of them were the highest player by a significant amount on the Packers draft board at the time they were chosen.
Now, if people take issue with how Packers mgmt construct their draft board, that's very much open to discussion. I feel that having the discipline to stay true to your draft board is an admirable quality. I think it has played an important role in Gutekunst assembling a roster that is very strong by all accounts.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

My post was in reference to the drafting of both Rodgers and Love. I do believe that both of them were the highest player by a significant amount on the Packers draft board at the time they were chosen.
Now, if people take issue with how Packers mgmt construct their draft board, that's very much open to discussion. I feel that having the discipline to stay true to your draft board is an admirable quality. I think it has played an important role in Gutekunst assembling a roster that is very strong by all accounts.

You can't automatically take BPA without regard to the current roster...case in point, when your BPA is at a position where you only play ONE guy and that ONE guy is one of the top-10 in the NFL. If your third ranked player is at a position of need, <cough> RECEIVER <cough>, then intelligent roster construction would indicate you draft the guy who will actually help the team over the guy that won't. BPA is worthless if that BPA is just going to sit on the bench the vast majority of his time.

 

[PikeBadger]

You can't automatically take BPA without regard to the current roster...case in point, when your BPA is at a position where you only play ONE guy and that ONE guy is one of the top-10 in the NFL. If your third ranked player is at a position of need, <cough> RECEIVER <cough>, then intelligent roster construction would indicate you draft the guy who will actually help the team over the guy that won't. BPA is worthless if that BPA is just going to sit on the bench the vast majority of his time.

There has already been much discussion about Rodgers and where he was at as a player after the 2019 season so I'm not going to rehash that but I believe that Love was drafted to one day replace Rodgers, not drafted as a backup QB. We still haven't seen enough playing time from Love to know where he is truly at right now.
I think what a lot of this comes down to is how patient are you with draft picks and their development. The Packers are always choosing at the back end of every round in just about every draft so that their ability to acquire top end talent at any position is limited compared to most of the league. I think Packer mgmt is a lot more patient with the development of their players than most of the fan base. But then, what the heck, the fan base is totally unaccountable for what they spew out of their mouths and keyboards.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There has already been much discussion about Rodgers and where he was at as a player after the 2019 season so I'm not going to rehash that but I believe that Love was drafted to one day replace Rodgers, not drafted as a backup QB. We still haven't seen enough playing time from Love to know where he is truly at right now.
I think what a lot of this comes down to is how patient are you with draft picks and their development. The Packers are always choosing at the back end of every round in just about every draft so that their ability to acquire top end talent at any position is limited compared to most of the league. I think Packer mgmt is a lot more patient with the development of their players than most of the fan base. But then, what the heck, the fan base is totally unaccountable for what they spew out of their mouths and keyboards.

These are my favorite. I love the way some fans continue to defend the process the FO went through to select a player that has literally not helped the team win a single game OVER options that would have helped the team IMMENSLEY. Many people were stunned at the selection for Love and history has proven all those people correct but there are still those who feel the need to defend a first round pick who has been a benchwarmer his entire career (except for his few start in which he has looked pretty poor). Any management that is patient enough to wait 5-6 years for a first round pick to contribute in any meaningful way is probably a little too patient. But please, continue to defend the pick against the reality of how said pick has played out (or not played in this case).

 

[PikeBadger]

These are my favorite. I love the way some fans continue to defend the process the FO went through to select a player that has literally not helped the team win a single game OVER options that would have helped the team IMMENSLEY. Many people were stunned at the selection for Love and history has proven all those people correct but there are still those who feel the need to defend a first round pick who has been a benchwarmer his entire career (except for his few start in which he has looked pretty poor). Any management that is patient enough to wait 5-6 years for a first round pick to contribute in any meaningful way is probably a little too patient. But please, continue to defend the pick against the reality of how said pick has played out (or not played in this case).

You angry with Gutekunst and his scouts?
Should they all be fired?

Just curious. How do you feel about the Savage draft pick (a true miss imo)?

 

[tynimiller]

What is a true miss to you?

Savage has underachieved his draft slot expectations for me. Now if he were a 3rd or 4th rounder I think one might be able to argue has overshot some, and or was a decent value pick. He's an NFL safety, he just hasn't been a first round and fifth year option type first round safety IMO.

 

[Mondio]

Savage is a classic "should be better" he starting to remind me of Dix. Last game he looked like he was content to be out there and in the area. Seems to avoid plays rather than trying to make them.
and I was high on that draft pick. I think he has the physical capabilities to be an excellent safety. But he doesn't seem to apply them consistently

 

[gopkrs]

After this preseason I am feeling better about Love. He just might be the successor.

 

[PikeBadger]

What is a true miss to you?

Savage has underachieved his draft slot expectations for me. Now if he were a 3rd or 4th rounder I think one might be able to argue has overshot some, and or was a decent value pick. He's an NFL safety, he just hasn't been a first round and fifth year option type first round safety IMO.

This is my thinking exactly. Savage is and has been performing at a level commensurate with what one might expect from a 3rd -5th round player at that safety position. He was the 20th player chosen in the 2019 draft. I expected much better results than what I've seen. Were there better guys available with that pick? I haven't gone back to look at what we might have been able to get with that pick.